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View Full Version : Edwin Article from Bosox blog



Newman4
05-12-2007, 09:58 AM
http://mvn.com/mlb-redsox/2007/05/11/reds-demote-edwin-encarnacion-should-red-sox-be-interested/

Always Red
05-12-2007, 10:03 AM
Well, they've found us to be a mark:


Just like when Austin Kearns was moved for middle relievers, Encarnacion could be moved for middle relievers. Cincinnati ranks 27th in bullpen ERA at 4.52, while Boston ranks second at 2.43, and the Mets first at 1.92 (wow!). Here’s another amazing stat: you know how good the Red Sox starters have been that our bullpen has thrown the least innings in baseball at 81.1 IP. Perfect for the dog days of summer, when our starters tire.

I could definitely see Craig Hansen being part of a package for “Ed-E,” as Encarnacion is often called. Who else could go? Well, if we acquire Encarnacion, is Chad Spann really necessary? I say no.

Falls City Beer
05-12-2007, 10:06 AM
Well, they've found us to be a mark:

Wayne's the sucker born every minute.

Redskinalum02
05-12-2007, 10:07 AM
Sure, they should be interested, but I doubt it would be as easy to trade for him as the author suggests (nor should it be).

For many of the same reasons the author brings up, it's worth hanging on to Edwin. I don't see an EE for middle relief deal any time soon....just one man's opinion and you know what they say about those...

Newman4
05-12-2007, 10:14 AM
The author suggests Hansen and Spann is too much for Boston to give up. IMO those two are not enough to get back for Edwin anyway.

keeganbrick
05-12-2007, 10:14 AM
How long is he going to stay in AAA? Just wish he would get back up here already, Freel gets sick then you have Castro and Hopper both starting.....ugh.

flyer85
05-12-2007, 10:16 AM
Just like when Austin Kearns was moved for middle relievers, Encarnacion could be moved for middle relievers.I wouldn't have minded if they were actually good bat missing relievers, not what the Reds got.

Atlanta traded a starting 1b and a starting pitching for relievers and I liked their deals because Soriano and Gonzalez are difference makers in the bullpen.

UC_Ken
05-12-2007, 11:32 AM
If the Reds move Encarnacion I'm going to be real angry. To compare this to Kearns/Lopez is stupid. Those were both guys who had played enough to prove they were flawed players and always would be. Encarnacion is 23, to write him off at 23 a year after he hit .275 with 33 doubles would be one of the stupidest things the Reds ever did. And his numbers suffered at he end of last year, most likely due to playing his first full season in MLB. After the grind his first season he decides to go and play winter ball. I don't think the Reds should have allowed him to play winter ball after finishing up the way he did. I'm not saying that's why he's struggled but I don't think it helped.

Redskinalum02
05-12-2007, 11:42 AM
If the Reds move Encarnacion I'm going to be real angry. To compare this to Kearns/Lopez is stupid. Those were both guys who had played enough to prove they were flawed players and always would be. Encarnacion is 23, to write him off at 23 a year after he hit .275 with 33 doubles would be one of the stupidest things the Reds ever did. And his numbers suffered at he end of last year, most likely due to playing his first full season in MLB. After the grind his first season he decides to go and play winter ball. I don't think the Reds should have allowed him to play winter ball after finishing up the way he did. I'm not saying that's why he's struggled but I don't think it helped.

I completely agree.
Comparing dealing EE to Kearns/Lopez is indeed stupid. It's WAY too early to give up on EE's bat. Kearns was an average hitting OF with decent defensive skills & Lopez was the opposite. Both were going to cost a lot for their production. EE still makes a minimal amount and is younger than either Kearns or Lopez. As for EE's defense, well, lets just hope he can at least become adequate. He has the talent to make spectacular plays, but lacks the focus/fundamentals/Whatever to consistently be a good defensive 3B.

jnwohio
05-12-2007, 12:09 PM
Just as badly as the Reds need relievers they need right handed pop in the line up. If it is not going to be EE, then they need to bring in someone else to fill that role. Just witness last nite as the latest in their string of futility against lefties.

There is some interesting commentary on EE from Jerry Narron in the Saturday Enquirer (sorry, I don't remember if it is the blog or a story). Essentially Narron says that based on the potential EE has already shown, if he hits he is the kind of impact hitter that will force a team to find a place for him. Narron hints that with theReds this could be 1B or maybe even some outfield duty.

I am sure the EE at 1B talk will torque up the Votto following; but, with Hamilton the Reds now have another alternative from the left side to build around with Jay Bruce also in the wings probably just a season and half to two seasons away. From the right hand side the next nearest impact prospect is probably Stubbs who is still at Dayton ("low A").

So if EE could get his offense together and handle the defense at 1st, it might make sense to put him there and use Votto as trade bait. Just let me remind the younger guys here that 35 years ago the Reds traded a very good established major league 1B, Lee May, in part to open the position for guy who was a clutch hitter but couldn't quite cut the mustard at 3b and that one turned out pretty good I guess since Tony Perez ended up inthe hall of fame.

westofyou
05-12-2007, 12:16 PM
Yes a blog article surely states the truth... the Reds are the dumbest team out there, with the dumbest GM ever.

I've seen that movie too.

This "other" view is from Steve Goldman's chat. Albeit it's a small world view of the EE situation, but it's likely as valid as the above blogs meanderings are.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=296



Shaun P. (Medway, MA): Is it possible that Edwin Encarnacion's only problem is named Jerry Narron, and that under another manager that just let him play (mistakes in the field be damned), he'd be OK? Narron seems like a decent manager and a good guy, but he really seems to have it in for Encarnacion.

Steven Goldman: Why? Just because Narron disciplined him for not running out a play? There needs to be more of that. I know Miguel Tejada is a great player and all that, but it seems like whenever the O's play the Yankees (that's when I get to see him) he's jogging to first and walking after grounders. That stuff frustrates the heck out of me, and I don't understand why Perlozzo tolerates it.

keeganbrick
05-12-2007, 01:21 PM
Yes a blog article surely states the truth... the Reds are the dumbest team out there, with the dumbest GM ever.

I've seen that movie too.

This "other" view is from Steve Goldman's chat. Albeit it's a small world view of the EE situation, but it's likely as valid as the above blogs meanderings are.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=296

Yea, but in response to Goldman's remarks there have been numerous occasions where Narron has jumped all over EE for making mistakes when other guys (Dunn, Griffey) have made very similar mistakes and nothing has come of it. EE is Narron's whipping boy which I believe only makes it harder on EE when knowing that if he screws up just once he could be pulled from the lineup, benched, and now sent to AAA.

With no other right-handed bat in the lineup besides Phillips I dont really see how the Reds can send or leave EE down there for an extended period of time. The Reds are not better off with EE in Louisville and just thinking on a standpoint of the player himself I dont really see how this is going to help that much anyways.

westofyou
05-12-2007, 01:48 PM
when other guys (Dunn, Griffey) have made very similar mistakes and nothing has come of it.

Because they've delivered the goods for awhile, nothing else really belies that that's not why that occurs, it ain't new to baseball or professional sports.

TeamBoone
05-12-2007, 05:01 PM
How long is he going to stay in AAA? Just wish he would get back up here already, Freel gets sick then you have Castro and Hopper both starting.....ugh.

Question: why didn't Hamilton start? is it the righty/lefty thing?

PS -- I think Edwin is still tired from winter ball. Perhaps a rest would have been the biggest thing they could have done for him.

peterose00
05-12-2007, 05:46 PM
If the middle relievers did a good job, then it might be worth EE>

edabbs44
05-12-2007, 05:51 PM
Other GMs in the league are patiently waiting for Wayne to make a move...

http://www.saparks.com/resources/birds/images/vultures.jpg

RedEye
05-12-2007, 05:57 PM
Just as badly as the Reds need relievers they need right handed pop in the line up. If it is not going to be EE, then they need to bring in someone else to fill that role. Just witness last nite as the latest in their string of futility against lefties.

There is some interesting commentary on EE from Jerry Narron in the Saturday Enquirer (sorry, I don't remember if it is the blog or a story). Essentially Narron says that based on the potential EE has already shown, if he hits he is the kind of impact hitter that will force a team to find a place for him. Narron hints that with theReds this could be 1B or maybe even some outfield duty.

I am sure the EE at 1B talk will torque up the Votto following; but, with Hamilton the Reds now have another alternative from the left side to build around with Jay Bruce also in the wings probably just a season and half to two seasons away. From the right hand side the next nearest impact prospect is probably Stubbs who is still at Dayton ("low A").

So if EE could get his offense together and handle the defense at 1st, it might make sense to put him there and use Votto as trade bait. Just let me remind the younger guys here that 35 years ago the Reds traded a very good established major league 1B, Lee May, in part to open the position for guy who was a clutch hitter but couldn't quite cut the mustard at 3b and that one turned out pretty good I guess since Tony Perez ended up inthe hall of fame.

I really hope the Reds wait with both Votto and Edwin. Their trade value will be much higher if they both prove they can produce at the ML level with some consistency. If Wayne trades either of them for middle relief help, I may just quit being a Reds fan. I am really that close; this team and its management are seriously infuriating to me right now.