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View Full Version : Salmon out, Livingston in



Matt700wlw
05-13-2007, 01:30 AM
Just announced.

Ron Madden
05-13-2007, 01:32 AM
Well that's par for the course.

reds44
05-13-2007, 01:32 AM
WOW.
WOW.
WOW.

IT WOULD BE SALMON.

I give up on this organization.

NatiRedGals
05-13-2007, 01:33 AM
OMGSH ... Im speechless

dougdirt
05-13-2007, 01:36 AM
Yeah, don't send out the guys with ERA's over 5.00.... send out the sub 4.00 ERA guy with mid 90's heat.

Good call on that one. :bang:

Reds Fanatic
05-13-2007, 01:38 AM
Just more proof the people in charge of this club are clueless.

StillFunkyB
05-13-2007, 01:42 AM
I'm a little confused on this one.

reds44
05-13-2007, 01:44 AM
Stanton stays
Coffey stays

Just wow.

redsfan4445
05-13-2007, 01:47 AM
also CASTRO stays... Jerry's fav player

texasdave
05-13-2007, 01:47 AM
Perhaps WK knows he is at the end of his rope and he has decided to hang on as long as he can simply to torment Redzoners. Nothing else makes any sense. :)

Big Klu
05-13-2007, 01:49 AM
I'm a little confused on this one.

It has everything to do with options. Right or wrong (and I'm in the camp that it's wrong), that's the reason.

I think Santos saved his job with 3 IP and 1 ER tonight. I would have optioned Coffey or released Stanton, but it is clear that this is an option-related move.

texasdave
05-13-2007, 01:51 AM
It has everything to do with options. Right or wrong (and I'm in the camp that it's wrong), that's the reason.

I think Santos saved his job with 3 IP and 1 ER tonight. I would have optioned Coffey or released Stanton, but it is clear that this is an option-related move.

They should have placed Stanton on the DL. By now he must, at the very least, be suffering from a bruised ego. :)

Big Klu
05-13-2007, 01:52 AM
also CASTRO stays... Jerry's fav player

The Reds aren't going to deactivate a position player to make room for a pitcher. A 13-man pitching staff is unreasonable (even by today's standards).

MrCinatit
05-13-2007, 01:55 AM
They should have placed Stanton on the DL. By now he must, at the very least, be suffering from a bruised ego. :)

Like maybe he slips and hits the back of his head on a baseball bat three or four times. "Accidentally", of course.

jmac
05-13-2007, 10:30 AM
This is the most stupid move or close to it and really irks me.
Let Coffey stay....Stanton stay.....and send back Salmon.
We have some bright people in charge :rolleyes:

edabbs44
05-13-2007, 10:32 AM
It has everything to do with options. Right or wrong (and I'm in the camp that it's wrong), that's the reason.

I think Santos saved his job with 3 IP and 1 ER tonight. I would have optioned Coffey or released Stanton, but it is clear that this is an option-related move.

Coffey's got options, so it can't have everything to do with options.

If EdE can get sent down, Coffey shouldn't be above it.

jnwohio
05-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Coffey's got options, so it can't have everything to do with options.

If EdE can get sent down, Coffey shouldn't be above it.

I agree.

I was out of country for a couple of weeks and have been trying to get caught up. Didn't Coffey sign some kind of contract extension with a big raise recently? That could be why he wasn't optioned, not that I agree with that reasoning.

What I was really hoping for was that it would be announced that Jared Burton was the PTBNL in the Denorfia deal and that he would be optioned out.

Marc D
05-13-2007, 10:59 AM
When you mention the contract extension for Coffey being a plausible reason WK may be giving him special treatment you are just spouting conspiarcy theories.

At least thats what they told me last time I brought it up.

:dunno:

edabbs44
05-13-2007, 11:09 AM
When you mention the contract extension for Coffey being a plausible reason WK may be giving him special treatment you are just spouting conspiarcy theories.

At least thats what they told me last time I brought it up.

:dunno:

Wayne's guys seem to have a longer leash in some cases. Except if you Rheally suck.

Kc61
05-13-2007, 11:19 AM
I don't mind the Salmon move right now. I do think he belongs in the big leagues, but the Reds have a lot of relievers and it will take some time to sort things out.

I think it is pretty clear that this year will be rebuilding. So over the next few months, I think you will see some turnover in the bullpen. Some of the older pitchers could go, making room for younger guys, like Salmon.

Weathers clearly has value. He is still good. Stanton won't just be cut, but if he has a few good outings he could have value too. These guys could be moved making some room.

In Coffey's case, he hasn't pitched as much lately. Maybe the Reds are getting smarter in using him, giving him some rest, picking better spots for him. So I don't mind keeping him in the majors. He showed last year that he can be effective if used properly.

So I think Salmon will be back. I also don't agree with the constant cries over every player move. The Reds know how Coffey has pitched, they know how Stanton has pitched, and they know they need more power arms in the bullpen. Let's look at the makeup of the pen at the trade deadline -- I think it will be a lot different than now.

StrikeIndicator
05-13-2007, 11:25 AM
What does the kid have to do?
He comes in on Thursday, has to throw 10 pictures to retire the side with one ground out and to K's
No walks
No cheap bloopers
No wild pitchest, just he and his old winter ball catcher tossing the ball around.

:bang: and how is he rewarded for that?:beerme: no, :bang: Brad got HOSED

Has anyone else noticed that since Valentin has been catching the PenBoys they have been doing a better job?

My prediction is in a couple of days, this board is going to be cooking with the question WHERE IS THE HEAT?

Well, now I don't have to stay up late to see how he does in the 8th or 9th

Hubba
05-13-2007, 11:41 AM
What does the kid have to do?
He comes in on Thursday, has to throw 10 pictures to retire the side with one ground out and to K's
No walks
No cheap bloopers
No wild pitchest, just he and his old winter ball catcher tossing the ball around.

:bang: and how is he rewarded for that?:beerme: no, :bang: Brad got HOSED

Has anyone else noticed that since Valentin has been catching the PenBoys they have been doing a better job?

My prediction is in a couple of days, this board is going to be cooking with the question WHERE IS THE HEAT?

Well, now I don't have to stay up late to see how he does in the 8th or 9thWho was the pictures of?:)
Was any pitchesters in them?

Matt700wlw
05-13-2007, 01:06 PM
I guess the last thing this bullpen needed was a change-of-pace type of reliever...somebody to switch things up...

wheels
05-13-2007, 01:08 PM
According to Reds.com, Livingston is today's starting pitcher.

Did I miss something?

wheels
05-13-2007, 01:10 PM
Oh that's right!

The Milton injury.

D'oh.

OnBaseMachine
05-13-2007, 01:44 PM
This organization continues to amaze me. The good old boy network is alive and well. Gotta keep those crappy veterans over the young guns with 95 mph heat. It's not like the Reds could use that 1.07 whip, 3.86 era, and 5 k's in 4.1 innings from Salmon. Simply amazing. Seriously, just trade these young guys to teams who will appreciate them.

Falls City Beer
05-13-2007, 01:47 PM
Maybe the organization sees the writing on the wall--that the season's over for them. Maybe they don't want to waste Salmon's service time. I don't know--just trying to make some sense out of it.

PuffyPig
05-13-2007, 02:02 PM
It's not like the Reds could use that 1.07 whip, 3.86 era, and 5 k's in 4.1 innings from Salmon.


His DIPS ERA was 7.06. It's not like he's been lights out. He's been walking the tightrope.

Patrick Bateman
05-13-2007, 02:06 PM
I'd rather see the likes of Santos go, but I really don't understand the outcry over sending down a guy that had obvious control problems, that if they continued, his effectiveness would plummet.

To be honest, I wasn't that impressed with him. It's nice to be able to throw hard, but without an ounce of control, he would get battered up here. it's not like he's shown very good control at any point. His 3.87 ERA was a mirage IMO.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2007, 02:08 PM
I think it's more of why a guy like Coffey who's shown he can't get the job done more than he does get it done gets to stick around, when he also has options, than a guy like Salmon hasn't exactly fallen on his face yet since he was called up.

pedro
05-13-2007, 02:11 PM
I think it's more of why a guy like Coffey who's shown he can't get the job done more than he does get it done gets to stick around, when he also has options, than a guy like Salmon hasn't exactly fallen on his face yet since he was called up.


b/c Coffey proved he can get it done in 2005 & 2006 and Salmon has proven that he has shaky control.

Falls City Beer
05-13-2007, 02:15 PM
b/c Coffey proved he can get it done in 2005 & 2006 and Salmon has proven that he has shaky control.

You don't have to convince me that Salmon is a huge question mark, but Santos is practically begging to be cut.

Patrick Bateman
05-13-2007, 02:18 PM
I think it's more of why a guy like Coffey who's shown he can't get the job done more than he does get it done gets to stick around, when he also has options, than a guy like Salmon hasn't exactly fallen on his face yet since he was called up.

It's because small sample sizes should not be used to cancel out past success. Coffey was our best reliever last season, and I expect him to be for the duration of this season.

pedro
05-13-2007, 02:20 PM
You don't have to convince me that Salmon is a huge question mark, but Santos is practically begging to be cut.

true enough.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2007, 02:20 PM
b/c Coffey proved he can get it done in 2005 & 2006 and Salmon has proven that he has shaky control.

I hope so, but Narron has to keep using him so much....his arm is going to fall off if he doesn't. He's on pace to pitch something like 95 innings this year.

Henry Clay
05-13-2007, 03:57 PM
Just more proof the people in charge of this club are clueless.

Day by day, I've been watching the proof pile up. We've left all the lesser standards behind. By the time Encarnacion was demoted, Castro listed as today's third base starter, Livingston picked to start, lineups that look like they were drafted at random, and now Salmon (!!) demoted, we're solidly beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's bad news with Johnny Cochran gone.

TeamBoone
05-13-2007, 04:17 PM
Unbelievable!

I've been quite impressed with Salmon.

jmac
05-13-2007, 04:26 PM
b/c Coffey proved he can get it done in 2005 & 2006 and Salmon has proven that he has shaky control.

Can someone please explain to me what Coffey has exactly proved. Yes...he seems like a good guy personally but why do people on here put him in some potential elite status ?

Look at the years we go by to say he has "proved" something..
2005: 58 ip 84 h :eek: 4.50 era
2006 78 ip 85 h 3.58 era
2007 18 ip 22 h 5.40 era

So this proves it ?
My posts before last year , I said I thought Coffey was too hittable.He did a little better last year but struggling again this season.
BP and Ross have exceptional years and every one wonders if it was career years for them. Well...maybe same could be asked about Coffey.
The league is batting 306 against him for his career.
I am just saying in no way would I put him light years ahead of Salmon because his numbers dont back it up.
Again...I am sure he is a fine kid but I dont think he has achieved this "we cant send him down because of what he has done for us in the past " type of treatment.

pedro
05-13-2007, 05:27 PM
Can someone please explain to me what Coffey has exactly proved. Yes...he seems like a good guy personally but why do people on here put him in some potential elite status ?

Look at the years we go by to say he has "proved" something..
2005: 58 ip 84 h :eek: 4.50 era
2006 78 ip 85 h 3.58 era
2007 18 ip 22 h 5.40 era

So this proves it ?
My posts before last year , I said I thought Coffey was too hittable.He did a little better last year but struggling again this season.
BP and Ross have exceptional years and every one wonders if it was career years for them. Well...maybe same could be asked about Coffey.
The league is batting 306 against him for his career.
I am just saying in no way would I put him light years ahead of Salmon because his numbers dont back it up.
Again...I am sure he is a fine kid but I dont think he has achieved this "we cant send him down because of what he has done for us in the past " type of treatment.

He's proved he belongs in the majors.

I would agree that he hasn't proved he should be the closer or even the first guy up though.

I do find Salmon intriguing but the point of having a guy who can come in and strike people out with runners on base is kind of lost when that guy walks a batter per inning.

peterose00
05-13-2007, 06:14 PM
Wierd start for Livingston. He had allot of things not go his way today. Could've been a quality start.

jmac
05-13-2007, 06:23 PM
Belonging in the majors...I guess.
Beyond a trip to louisville......That defintely should be an option.

pedro
05-13-2007, 06:29 PM
Belonging in the majors...I guess.
Beyond a trip to louisville......That defintely should be an option.

He's certainly on the verge.

Marc D
05-13-2007, 08:32 PM
DFAing Cormier and sending Coffey to the minors after his contract extension would look real bad for WK.

Anyone who doesn't think he's succeptible to the natuarl human tendency of CYA is being disengenious.

jmac
05-13-2007, 08:56 PM
he's succeptible to the natuarl human tendency of CYA is being disengenious.
:eek: What he say ?

WVPacman
05-14-2007, 12:31 AM
Im still shocked they sent salmon down to the majors.LOL he was one if not the only bright spot in our pen.I was thinking they would have sent Stanton down b/c he has done nothing but throw batting practice.I thought they might send Coffey down just to rest his arm but I was wrong.