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Matt700wlw
05-13-2007, 02:09 PM
The Reds are 54-67 (.446)

When he was extended back in June of last year, they were 41-36 (.532) and in second place, 1 1/2 games behind St. Louis.



I said at the time they jumped the gun on the extension, and I'm pretty sure almost everybody agreed with me.

Homer Bailey
05-13-2007, 02:43 PM
I disagree I like where our team stands right now.






















Sike.

redsmetz
05-13-2007, 02:58 PM
The Reds are 54-67 (.446)

When he was extended back in June of last year, they were 41-36 (.532) and in second place, 1 1/2 games behind St. Louis.

I said at the time they jumped the gun on the extension, and I'm pretty sure almost everybody agreed with me.

While I can understand the logic, I was not one who agreed with questioning the extension. I think Narron's a better manager than most RZer's believe.

oneupper
05-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Narron's extension was premature and much too long. BCast made a "Narron" mistake...extrapolating the performance of a small sample.

And it wasn't like Narron's phone was ringing off the hook with offers from other clubs.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2007, 03:04 PM
While I can understand the logic, I was not one who agreed with questioning the extension. I think Narron's a better manager than most RZer's believe.

I'm not putting all of this teams problems on Narron, that wouldn't be fair...I do think they jumped the gun though.

Always Red
05-13-2007, 03:12 PM
I'm not putting all of this teams problems on Narron, that wouldn't be fair...I do think they jumped the gun though.

I think they did too, but really if they wanted to get rid of him, swallowing his salary wouldn't be that big of a hit, compared to the other salaries they are throwing away this year (Cormier, LaRue, probably Stanton later one, etc).

I agree with redsmetz. I think Narron is a better manager than most RZ'ers believe.

Gainesville Red
05-13-2007, 03:13 PM
Narron's extension was premature and much too long. BCast made a "Narron" mistake...extrapolating the performance of a small sample.


Is extending a manager an owner or GM decision?

Rotater Cuff
05-13-2007, 03:39 PM
The kiss of death extension. You could see the balloon deflate while the ink was drying on Narroon's new contract.
Coffee was the recepient of a very well timed extension. It focused him on making sure his pitches split the middle of the plate.
We are currently enjoying the fruits of turning a #1 ace (Harang)into a comfortable $4 through a well timed extension. Oh yes, almost forgot about the extension David Ross used as an incentive to catapult himself :thumbdown into the first ranks of #3 catchers!

reds44
05-13-2007, 03:41 PM
Is extending a manager an owner or GM decision?
The fact WK and JN were extended at the same time leads me to believe it was BCast's decison.

GullyFoyle
05-13-2007, 08:11 PM
After todays loss, its just about time to start the "Pick the Date Narron gets Fired" pool.

savafan
05-13-2007, 08:14 PM
In my personal opinion, I think if the Reds are going to continue running out the managers that they have in recent seasons, it would make sense to do so on a series of one year contracts.

durl
05-14-2007, 10:08 AM
Maybe I've missed the thread, but I can't recall any discussing firing the pitching coach. His charges are the ones most responsible for our bad run. A bullpen with an ERA closing in on 5?

I just don't see how firing Narron will make the bullpen quit giving away leads that our offense hands them every other night.

hebroncougar
05-14-2007, 10:13 AM
While I can understand the logic, I was not one who agreed with questioning the extension. I think Narron's a better manager than most RZer's believe.

Based on?

Chip R
05-14-2007, 11:11 AM
In my personal opinion, I think if the Reds are going to continue running out the managers that they have in recent seasons, it would make sense to do so on a series of one year contracts.


Worked for Walt Alston.

RedsManRick
05-14-2007, 11:35 AM
If we had the best manager who ever existed, what would our record be over the last 14 months?

You fire managers for underachieving or losing the ability to lead a team effectively. Fact is that given the talent at hand, Narron isn't underachieving. Does he have control of the locker room? Beats me, though I've seen suggestions that trouble is brewing.

I'm just not convinced that re-arranging deck chairs is going to accomplish anything.

I'm a pretty firm believer that you don't fire any manager based on a stretch of team performance of anything less than a half season, unless there is a significant off the field problem. Bringing in a new manager isn't like bringing in a new RF who can step on the field and pick right up.

redsmetz
05-14-2007, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsmetz
While I can understand the logic, I was not one who agreed with questioning the extension. I think Narron's a better manager than most RZer's believe. Based on?

It's nothing more than my personal feeling. I understand that Narron's record does not indicate a winning manager. I also understand the legitimate points that many RZ posters lay out for why they believe that he is not a very good manager.

I've pointed out repeatedly that much of what can be said about Jerry Narron could now could have been (and probably was) said about Joe Torre in his initial stints with Atlanta and St. Louis. I still have a great concern that the revolving door in the manager's office since at least Pete was banned from baseball and maybe, given that, at least since Sparky left, that we never have an continuity from our managers.

I think Narron's a decent manager, who makes the occasional mistakes, but who overall if fairly sound, who, if given the chance, can turn this thing around. I may well be wrong and it may be pollyannish, but I think we're better served keeping someone longer rather than lopping off heads every time the team takes a turn for the worse.

This has been a very enigmatic season overall. I think Marty stated it very well about a week ago when he lamented that Narron unfairly be the victim of this team's poor play.

hebroncougar
05-14-2007, 01:09 PM
It's nothing more than my personal feeling. I understand that Narron's record does not indicate a winning manager. I also understand the legitimate points that many RZ posters lay out for why they believe that he is not a very good manager.

I've pointed out repeatedly that much of what can be said about Jerry Narron could now could have been (and probably was) said about Joe Torre in his initial stints with Atlanta and St. Louis. I still have a great concern that the revolving door in the manager's office since at least Pete was banned from baseball and maybe, given that, at least since Sparky left, that we never have an continuity from our managers.

I think Narron's a decent manager, who makes the occasional mistakes, but who overall if fairly sound, who, if given the chance, can turn this thing around. I may well be wrong and it may be pollyannish, but I think we're better served keeping someone longer rather than lopping off heads every time the team takes a turn for the worse.

This has been a very enigmatic season overall. I think Marty stated it very well about a week ago when he lamented that Narron unfairly be the victim of this team's poor play.

Fair enough, I've rarely seen anyone defend him. IMO, it's mostly the players that make a manager. However, there are certain managers that can motivate veterans to play harder, or certain managers handly youngsters better than others. All managers have tendencies, and Narron seems to definitely prefer veterans, doesn't like to platoon a lot (though he does some), doens't seem to like to bunt with anyone other than the pitcher, his downfall IMO is his inability to distinguish between a hot hand, and a legitimate player. Example...........moving Alex Gonzalez to the five hole after he has a good week, or riding a bullpen arm until if falls off. I personally think the team has packed it in on him, and his merry go round lineup card. I think Vets like Griffey, Dunn, Ross, Hatteberg, Conine, and Castro see that for what is is, indecisiveness. The downside to letting him go is that he has done a good job with Josh Hamilton, and I'm not sure how Hamilton would react.

bucksfan2
05-14-2007, 01:34 PM
Narron has got to go. You can no longer sell this manager to the fan base. I lost all confidence in him when the team quit down the strech last year. There needs to be an organizational change with managers around here. The players seem too cozy with Narron. This team needs a manager who is going to motivate and hold the players accountable for their shortcomings.

Chip R
05-14-2007, 03:02 PM
Narron has got to go. You can no longer sell this manager to the fan base. I lost all confidence in him when the team quit down the strech last year. There needs to be an organizational change with managers around here. The players seem too cozy with Narron. This team needs a manager who is going to motivate and hold the players accountable for their shortcomings.


Not that I'm a big fan of Narron's but if Wayne and Bob feel he's the right man for the job, whether they are right or wrong, they need to keep him. As for selling him to the fan base, there's only one person who they could name manager that would be a "good sell" to the fan base and he can't have any job in baseball now. If you fired Narron after the road trip and replaced him with Bucky Dent or whomever, is that going to make people come out and watch the Reds? It's going to take a lot more than a managerial change to "sell" the Reds to the fans now.

WVRedsFan
05-14-2007, 03:07 PM
It's nothing more than my personal feeling. I understand that Narron's record does not indicate a winning manager. I also understand the legitimate points that many RZ posters lay out for why they believe that he is not a very good manager.

I've pointed out repeatedly that much of what can be said about Jerry Narron could now could have been (and probably was) said about Joe Torre in his initial stints with Atlanta and St. Louis. I still have a great concern that the revolving door in the manager's office since at least Pete was banned from baseball and maybe, given that, at least since Sparky left, that we never have an continuity from our managers.

I think Narron's a decent manager, who makes the occasional mistakes, but who overall if fairly sound, who, if given the chance, can turn this thing around. I may well be wrong and it may be pollyannish, but I think we're better served keeping someone longer rather than lopping off heads every time the team takes a turn for the worse.

This has been a very enigmatic season overall. I think Marty stated it very well about a week ago when he lamented that Narron unfairly be the victim of this team's poor play.
Six weeks ago, I would have argued until I was blue in the face to replace Narron, but now I would not. Why? Outside of a couple of position players, this team is not a .500 team but a below .500 tream. Watching yesterday's debacle, it's fairly obvious that no one short of the almighty can right them. Save some money and make your move after the season.