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flyer85
05-13-2007, 09:59 PM
over the next few week a number of players would be gone.

As the ode to veteran scrappiness failed last year with the Twins it was doomed from the beginning with the Reds. They need to get rid of Conine, Stanton and Castro over the next few weeks. I would call back EE and stick him at 3rd, bring Votto up to play 1b and bring back Salmon.

I don't forsee a Twins 2006 takeoff by going with the young guys but with the old guys there is zero upside. This team needs to take a long hard look and make decisions about what the future should look like.

They should also look into trading Jr, Freel and Lohse if they can get a decent return. The 2007 Reds are finished and hard decisions need to be made about what the future composition of this team should be.

I have zero confidence this front office it up to accomplishing the task.

redram
05-13-2007, 10:16 PM
You are sooooo right here. This team is one of the worst we have seen in quite some time. No chemistry, no leadership from players or managers. And NO FIRE to win. I know the players do not want to lose but right now that is their mentality. It will not change if we just continue with status quo. I don't claim to know the anwers, that is why I do not do this for a living, BUT I do know a losing combination when I see it and the team we have is just that.

The starters like Harang and Aroyo must think what is the use. Throw a strong game only to see the BP, or Poor D just plain blow it. This year is all but done and it is only May. What would it hurt to let the young players play and get rid of the fossils. I say do it and do it now. Let's see what we have.

TheWalls
05-13-2007, 11:44 PM
Upon the return to Cincy I want to see...

1) Stanton gone, Bray up, get Salmon back up here too!
2) Votto up and hitting in the meat of the lineup, if Conine has to go so be it.
3) Edwin back up and hitting 4th or 5th EVERY NIGHT!
4) An every day line up - let the 1-3, 4-6, 7-8 guys get used to established roles. Hattie #1 is as stupid as Dunn at #6 when he leads the team in HR and RBI!!!
5) Defined responsibilities in the pen. This group's overworked and doesn't know which way is up because of the way Narron continues to experiment.
6) Narron's head on a platter. Elevate Dent, hire Girardi (the Zoner who said that Mattingly has already been anointed is right), heck bring back Davey Johnson or Frank Robinson for all I care, Jerry's style doesn't work at all for this team. Period.

TOBTTReds
05-13-2007, 11:51 PM
I would just like to stop seeing crappy 4 and 5 hitters. Why will anyone pitch to Jr. with Conine on deck? PATHETIC!

Well there are about 10 other things I want to see, but many won't be happening.

Screwball
05-14-2007, 12:02 AM
The thing about baseball is that you can't rush to decisions. One can argue that we've seen enough and there's legitimate beef with certain players (Stanton, Coffey, etc.). But keep in mind that if rash decisions were made early last year, the bullpen would be devoid of its only consistent reliever over the past 4+ months of baseball: David Weathers (scary thought, I know).

Having said that, I disagree with upper management's stance that the guys we have in the 'pen will turn it around. I've watched as they've wasted stellar efforts by our starters, and negated great games from guys like Jr., Dunn, Hamilton, et. al. It's very frustrating as a loyal fan to watch game in and game out.

A situation just like this will reveal a lot about how good or bad Wayne is as a GM. We'll see what kind of direction he takes the Reds.

edabbs44
05-14-2007, 12:03 AM
Upon the return to Cincy I want to see...

1) Stanton gone, Bray up, get Salmon back up here too!

There is no way Stanton will be released with 10.5 months left on a 12 month contract. Especially since WK is solely responsible for that. He already ate Cormier's.

edabbs44
05-14-2007, 12:05 AM
A situation just like this that will reveal a lot about how good or bad Wayne is as a GM. We'll see what kind of direction he takes the Reds.
Wayne has already revealed the answer to that question. He has struggled beyond anyone's expectations. The magnitude of his badness is the only unanswered question.

reds44
05-14-2007, 12:07 AM
Edwin and Votto should both be up here and playing everyday. Bray (when healthy) and McBeth should both be up here too. I think McBeth is better then Salmon.

Try to trade Loshe, Conine, Hatteberg, Griffey and/or Dunn.

Not going to happen though.

LF Dunn (if not traded)
CF Hamilton
RF Griffey (if not traded)
3B Edwin
SS Seabass
2B Phillips
1B Votto
Ross C

Hamilton
Phillips
Griffey
Dunn
Edwin
Votto
Seabass
Ross

If Dunn and/or Griffey is traded, you see what you get and go from there.

The only reason I don't bring Homer up is because he is simply not ready.

Screwball
05-14-2007, 12:14 AM
Wayne has already revealed the answer to that question. He has struggled beyond anyone's expectations. The magnitude of his badness is the only unanswered question.

In your opinion, sure. IMO, he's made some very good moves to go along with the bad ones. I'm waiting to see how he handles the current situation before I diagnose him as struggluing beyond anyone's expectations.

edabbs44
05-14-2007, 12:22 AM
In your opinion, sure. IMO, he's made some very good moves to go along with the bad ones. I'm waiting to see how he handles the current situation before I diagnose him as struggluing beyond anyone's expectations.

He's made some good moves. But the team is currently in complete disarray and headed towards the worst record in baseball with a bullet. He has put his stamp on this team as there are 17 of his players on this 25 man roster, and more if you want to include players he has extended past this season (Coffey, Harang, Freel). He can make as many "good" moves as he wants. If they are still in last place, how "good" were those moves in the grand scheme anyway? It's time for everyone to let go of his random successes and look at his whole work of art. It sucks.

Screwball
05-14-2007, 12:32 AM
It's time for everyone to let go of his random successes and look at his whole work of art. It sucks.


Well, I don't think there's ever a time when someone should let go of a GM's "random successes" (which I don't think they were random, but that's a different debate) when those successes are still on the team. But the whole work of art is currently a team that is 10 games below .500 dating back to when he took over as GM. Certainly not where we want to be, but not the unmitigated disaster you seem to think it is. I really feel as though a.) this team is better than their current record, and b.) the jury is still out on Krivsky. I'm willing to not judge him at a time when the Reds are mired in a nasty slump, but willing to wait and see what kind of moves are made to get us out of it. If he sits on his hands for a couple months or worse yet, panics and makes awful awful decisions, I think we can make an accurate and objective judgement on him. I'm going to see what develops...

hebroncougar
05-14-2007, 09:39 AM
The Reds need a new captain of the ship. I'm sure the players heads are spinning as fast as lineup changes are made from day to day, and bullpen roles are switched.

REDREAD
05-14-2007, 10:51 AM
over the next few week a number of players would be gone.

I have zero confidence this front office it up to accomplishing the task.

Great points. We are in a pickle though. Wayne has extended a lot of the veterans. We're pretty much stuck with them this year. Stanton is a prime example.

When you're in last place with a lot of multiyear contracts, it's just not practical to DFA them. You've got to hang in there and hope something can be salvaged. Particularly in the Reds' case where there's not a whole lot of talent in AAA to replace them. The Reds' braintrust feels that Salmon is the best option at AAA now. I'm not sure who is second in the pecking order, but there's not a whole lot of depth for the injury contingency.

JLB5
05-14-2007, 10:59 AM
Honestly, I'd rather see this pitching staff by the end of June:

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Belisle
Livingston
Burton
Bray
Majewski
Coutlangus
Salmon
Coffee
McBeth

Get them ready for next year.

BRM
05-14-2007, 11:00 AM
over the next few week a number of players would be gone.

As the ode to veteran scrappiness failed last year with the Twins it was doomed from the beginning with the Reds. They need to get rid of Conine, Stanton and Castro over the next few weeks. I would call back EE and stick him at 3rd, bring Votto up to play 1b and bring back Salmon.

I don't forsee a Twins 2006 takeoff by going with the young guys but with the old guys there is zero upside. This team needs to take a long hard look and make decisions about what the future should look like.

They should also look into trading Jr, Freel and Lohse if they can get a decent return. The 2007 Reds are finished and hard decisions need to be made about what the future composition of this team should be.

I have zero confidence this front office it up to accomplishing the task.

I like the thought but it will be tough for Wayne to do. Most of those older guys would likely need to be DFA'ed in order to get rid of them. Castro has no value on the trade market while Stanton and Conine's value is dropping like a stone.

I agree with you on Junior, Freel, and Lohse although I don't know how many teams would be willing to roll the dice on Junior's health.

roby
05-14-2007, 04:19 PM
There is no way Stanton will be released with 10.5 months left on a 12 month contract. Especially since WK is solely responsible for that. He already ate Cormier's.

You're probably right about that. But, at the very least they could quit bringing Stanton into games where have the Reds have a lead or are within striking distance. If Narron can't catch on, maybe Stanton needs to do a stint on the DL. I can't believe that the same failures keep getting run out to the mound night after night with the same results. It's time to catch on, Jerry!