PDA

View Full Version : Baseball Prospectus' Take on EE Situation



MississippiRed
05-15-2007, 09:35 PM
Christina Kahrl either reads RedsZone or has the ability to psychically channel the posters here. An excerpt from the Transaction Analysis from today's Baseball Prospectus:

Transaction Analysis Article (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6229)

You can almost understand it. Encarnacion hasn't produced at the plate, and he's been awful in the field, and with Josh Hamilton's arrival on the scene crowding the outfield, the Reds have their everyday center fielder now, right? They've got to play Ryan Freel somewhere, so by banishing Encarnacion to Kentucky, they get the double-edged psychic benefit of a punitive demotion for their young third baseman who's managed to not be the new Pujols while playing their Rhineland-friendly scrapper at third, Freel. It's a lovely narrative, but it's complete malarkey. Freel's been struggling through “flu-like symptoms” for a while now, and the Reds got the feel-good rush of making Encarnacion go away without actually having someone around to play third in his place, which just highlights how dumb the move was. So, instead of Freel doing something he's not very good at (play third), Reds fans have been treated to Juan Castro and Keppinger starting at the hot corner, which ought to please no one, because each is the definition of an emergency starter at third, and after a day or two, it ceases to be an emergency, and becomes instead an example of weird mismanagement. The organization threw a similar tantrum over Encarnacion's fielding problems last year, and nobody was impressed when they punished him and themselves by sitting him down. It's just not very bright to make yourself worse because you're unwilling to accept one of the prices of playing someone who's an offensive asset. You run the risk of giving yourself a complete zero in the lineup (a desultory 'mission accomplished' there when the likes of Keppinger or Castro are penciled into starting roles), and scapegoating Encarnacion because he had the misfortune of being the only everyday player to get off to a slow start seems juvenile. Last I checked, Encarnacion didn't spend the better part of a year obsessed with the intricacies of building the league's worst bullpen, but then I guess a five-week slump on the field is more expensive than a multi-month bad run in the front office. Except in the standings, of course, but that's all Encarnacion's fault too, right?

I especially like the part about the "multi-month bad run in the front office."

TC81190
05-15-2007, 09:39 PM
That's ridiculous. Dude doesn't know what he's talking about.





AGAIN, Edwin is OPSing .600 and sucking it up in Louisville. That'd help us.

reds44
05-15-2007, 09:45 PM
That's ridiculous. Dude doesn't know what he's talking about.





AGAIN, Edwin is OPSing .600 and sucking it up in Louisville. That'd help us.
Sucking it up in Louisville? He's had 17 ABs. Wow.

I think dude is spot on.

TC81190
05-15-2007, 09:49 PM
Sucking it up in Louisville? He's had 17 ABs. Wow.

I think dude is spot on.

17 ABs right in line with his month of terrible ones up here.

WMR
05-15-2007, 09:51 PM
17 ABs right in line with his month of terrible ones up here.

Where do we have a snowball's chance in hell of finding any other righthanded power in this 40 man roster?

You gotta do two things: dance with the ones who brung ya and dance with the ones who've got the chance to take you there.

Radical, I know.

Ron Madden
05-15-2007, 09:53 PM
Edwin is in the worst slump of his life.

I'd still rather have him than Castro or Moeller.

TC81190
05-15-2007, 09:55 PM
Where do we have a snowball's chance in hell of finding any other righthanded power in this 40 man roster?

You gotta do two things: dance with the ones who brung ya and dance with the ones who've got the chance to take you there.

Radical, I know.

Again:

.600 OPS. Where's the power? Even if Freel's .390~ SLG isnt good, its still better than .250~. He needs to re-find himself.

WMR
05-15-2007, 09:57 PM
Again:

.600 OPS. Where's the power? Even if Freel's .390~ SLG isnt good, its still better than .250~. He needs to re-find himself.

His last couple games he had shown some real sparks of breaking out of his slump... hard hit at-em balls... no benefit of the doubt for EE though.

MississippiRed
05-15-2007, 09:58 PM
Again:

.600 OPS. Where's the power? Even if Freel's .390~ SLG isnt good, its still better than .250~. He needs to re-find himself.

He's been in a slump, no doubt. Still the best chance we have at having a MLB average or better third baseman. I would vote for bringing him up, showing some confidence in him, and letting him work his way out of it.

Ron Madden
05-15-2007, 10:00 PM
Again:

.600 OPS. Where's the power? Even if Freel's .390~ SLG isnt good, its still better than .250~. He needs to re-find himself.

The thing is EE can and most likely will get better.

TC81190
05-15-2007, 10:12 PM
Edwin is in the worst slump of his life.

I'd still rather have him than Castro or Moeller.

Castro yes. Kepp, not yet.

reds44
05-15-2007, 10:14 PM
Castro yes. Kepp, not yet.
lol.

You'd take Keppinger over Edwin?

edabbs44
05-15-2007, 10:22 PM
Who cares if EdE would be better than Castro or Keppinger right now? Edwin needs to get back on track. Sometimes getting demoted gets your head back in the game...look at Teahen from last season.

Will
05-15-2007, 10:24 PM
I wonder if the dude at baseball prospectus watched EE flail at anything thrown in the general direction of the plate over the last month and a half.

TeamBoone
05-15-2007, 10:30 PM
The "dude" is a woman... Christina. And I think there's a lot of merit in what she says.

flyer85
05-15-2007, 10:34 PM
The "dude" is a woman... Christina. I think she still goes standing up, I don't believe "she" has had the operation yet.

TOBTTReds
05-15-2007, 10:37 PM
I'm with her!

REDblooded
05-15-2007, 11:57 PM
Spot on..............I'm with the tranny on this one.

keeganbrick
05-16-2007, 01:20 AM
I'm with her!

I'm with you!

reds44
05-16-2007, 01:21 AM
Spot on..............I'm with the tranny on this one.
:rolleyes:

The tranny?

Real funny dude.

RANDY IN INDY
05-16-2007, 06:54 AM
Encarnacion needs to get himself on track at Louisville and start hitting the ball the way he is expected to. He controls his destiny right now.

hebroncougar
05-16-2007, 08:40 AM
Anyone who think's Edwin should be banished needs to take a look at Justin Morneau 2005 to 2006. You stick with your young players when they slump (especially if it's only a month) if you think they are going to be around for a while. Now if the Reds REALLY feel as though he's not, then it's a different story.

durl
05-16-2007, 10:47 AM
He's not hitting and he's not fielding. Personally, I don't see how sending him down is a bad move.

Among regular 3B in the NL, EE is next to last in fielding percentage. I'm all for letting guys try to climb out of slumps. It's just that he's not doing anything well right now. We're not talking about a perennial All-Star player here; he's not even played 2 full seasons in the big leagues yet. Last year, his bat offset his poor fielding. That's not happening now.

Options are there for a reason. Let EE try to gain some confidence at the plate by hitting Minor League pitching.

George Anderson
05-16-2007, 11:28 AM
He's not hitting and he's not fielding. Personally, I don't see how sending him down is a bad move.

Among regular 3B in the NL, EE is next to last in fielding percentage. I'm all for letting guys try to climb out of slumps. It's just that he's not doing anything well right now. We're not talking about a perennial All-Star player here; he's not even played 2 full seasons in the big leagues yet. Last year, his bat offset his poor fielding. That's not happening now.

Options are there for a reason. Let EE try to gain some confidence at the plate by hitting Minor League pitching.

I agree 100% Some people act like a player being sent down to the minors is the end of the world. IMHO its crazy to keep a struggling, young player in MLB if he isnt getting the job done. Send him down, have him work on a few things he needs to work on and hope he gets back soon!!

RANDY IN INDY
05-16-2007, 11:35 AM
And the way that he handles it will tell you volumes about the player.

Chip R
05-16-2007, 12:19 PM
Article about EE in the Post today.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/SPT05/705160334/1035

BRM
05-16-2007, 12:33 PM
Sounds like he has a great attitude about it. He's there working hard to get back to Cincinnati.

remdog
05-16-2007, 01:20 PM
I agree 100% Some people act like a player being sent down to the minors is the end of the world. IMHO its crazy to keep a struggling, young player in MLB if he isnt getting the job done. Send him down, have him work on a few things he needs to work on and hope he gets back soon!!

It depends upon the player and it depends upon the situation.

In this particular case I don't believe it does EE any good and it removes the best chance for a meaningful right-handed power bat from the Reds lineup.

In this case, two negatives don't make a positive.

Rem

durl
05-16-2007, 01:29 PM
In this particular case I don't believe it does EE any good and it removes the best chance for a meaningful right-handed power bat from the Reds lineup.

It's just that, so far this season, his at-bats aren't meaningful and there's no power. I REALLY hope EE comes out of this slump. I believe he's fully capable of getting the stroke back.

This case certainly brings out differing viewpoints, doesn't it? :)

TeamBoone
05-16-2007, 01:32 PM
Among regular 3B in the NL, EE is next to last in fielding percentage. I'm all for letting guys try to climb out of slumps. It's just that he's not doing anything well right now. We're not talking about a perennial All-Star player here; he's not even played 2 full seasons in the big leagues yet. Last year, his bat offset his poor fielding. That's not happening now.

Options are there for a reason. Let EE try to gain some confidence at the plate by hitting Minor League pitching.

I don't know whether it was a bad move or not, BUT IMHO, he WAS starting to come out of his hitting slump.

Will
05-16-2007, 01:46 PM
The "dude" is a woman... Christina. And I think there's a lot of merit in what she says.

Reminds me of a Aerosmith song only backwards. Sry about the gender miss-identification, just read the article and not the name of who wrote it. ;) I still think EE's problem was plate discipline and over all it wasn't improving.

bounty37h
05-16-2007, 02:08 PM
He's not hitting and he's not fielding. Personally, I don't see how sending him down is a bad move.

Among regular 3B in the NL, EE is next to last in fielding percentage. I'm all for letting guys try to climb out of slumps. It's just that he's not doing anything well right now. We're not talking about a perennial All-Star player here; he's not even played 2 full seasons in the big leagues yet. Last year, his bat offset his poor fielding. That's not happening now.

Options are there for a reason. Let EE try to gain some confidence at the plate by hitting Minor League pitching.

Hey Hey Durl, we cant have you coming here and throwing any kind of logic in an arguement!!!!! Dont you know the next GM and manager are on this board, and once ownership fires the current regime, wil come and hire a RZ'er?? :)

RichRed
05-16-2007, 02:13 PM
Dont you know the next GM and manager are on this board, and once ownership fires the current regime, wil come and hire a RZ'er?? :)

Awesome. I vote Cyclone792 & M2 for co-GMs.

TC81190
05-16-2007, 06:39 PM
The "dude" is a woman... Christina. And I think there's a lot of merit in what she says.

"She's" a man, man.

TC81190
05-16-2007, 06:42 PM
I don't know whether it was a bad move or not, BUT IMHO, he WAS starting to come out of his hitting slump.

He needs to get his patience back first. He's had one walk in 22 AB down there.

reds44
05-16-2007, 06:42 PM
Article about EE in the Post today.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/SPT05/705160334/1035
Went 2-5 with a homer, double, and 3 RBI today.

I'll add to that, this from the ORG.



It was telling, after Narron embarrassed Edwin Encarnacion mid-game more than a month ago, for a perceived lack of hustle, that no player came to the manager’s defense. Instead, what you heard privately in the clubhouse was that Encarnacion didn’t see the popup he’d hit, thought it was out of play and shouldn’t have been made an example of.
That's from Paul Daugherty.

hebroncougar
05-17-2007, 10:41 AM
The Reds are still losing??? I thought sending EdE down was going to cure all of that??:bang::nono::dunno:

durl
05-17-2007, 12:52 PM
The Reds are still losing??? I thought sending EdE down was going to cure all of that??:bang::nono::dunno:

I think we need to refocus. Sending EE down wasn't because he's single-handedly responsible for the Reds losing streak. He went down because he has the next to worst FP among 3B in the NL (and most of his errors involve THROWING to 1B) and he's hitting .218 with 1 HR, a .301 OBP and .287 slugging percentage.

We shouldn't lose perspective on what sending EE down means.

AmarilloRed
05-17-2007, 01:13 PM
If Encarcion turns himself around in AAA, all this will be academic.

REDblooded
05-18-2007, 02:53 PM
:rolleyes:

The tranny?

Real funny dude.


I wasn't trying to be funny with this one.........google the name. "She's" had an operation.

zombie-a-go-go
05-18-2007, 03:15 PM
Let's keep this thread focused on the topic, which is not Christina Kahrl. That topic can be discussed in the Peanut Gallery, should you desire.

Thanks for listening. You've been swell.

Rojo
05-18-2007, 03:52 PM
BP snark keeps getting lamer. What was her point?