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freestyle55
05-17-2007, 10:03 PM
From Ken Rosenthal / FoxSports.com via mlbtraderumors.com...

Ken Griffey Jr., Reds: He's hot, his team's not.

Griffey, 37, is sixth in the National League in OPS. The Reds are in a 2-11 free-fall, and their sorry bullpen will prevent them from competing even in the modest N.L. Central. Trading Griffey would help free up money to re-sign Adam Dunn, whom the Reds control only through next season.
The bulk of Griffey's contract is behind him he is guaranteed $12.5 million both this season and next, with a $16.5 million option or $4 million buyout for 2009. He does, however, possess full no-trade protection, and in the past has expressed an interest in playing only for teams that train near his Orlando home most notably, the Yankees, Astros and Braves. At this stage of his career, the chance to win a World Series probably would take priority over travel convenience. A return to the Mariners as a right fielder/DH might intrigue him; the M's are planning special events for Griffey when the Reds visit Seattle during inter-league play from June 22 to 24.




I just can't see him wanting to go back to a team that doesn't have a chance to win a title. It would be nice to get out of that cost for next year so that we can go out and perhaps pick up a closer or another right handed bat. With his and Milton's contract off the books, and maybe a little bump in the payroll (if you wouldn't mind Mr. Castellini :pray:), we could pick a few big pieces...

Will M
05-17-2007, 10:11 PM
From Ken Rosenthal / FoxSports.com via mlbtraderumors.com...

Ken Griffey Jr., Reds: He's hot, his team's not.

Griffey, 37, is sixth in the National League in OPS. The Reds are in a 2-11 free-fall, and their sorry bullpen will prevent them from competing even in the modest N.L. Central. Trading Griffey would help free up money to re-sign Adam Dunn, whom the Reds control only through next season.
The bulk of Griffey's contract is behind him he is guaranteed $12.5 million both this season and next, with a $16.5 million option or $4 million buyout for 2009. He does, however, possess full no-trade protection, and in the past has expressed an interest in playing only for teams that train near his Orlando home most notably, the Yankees, Astros and Braves. At this stage of his career, the chance to win a World Series probably would take priority over travel convenience. A return to the Mariners as a right fielder/DH might intrigue him; the M's are planning special events for Griffey when the Reds visit Seattle during inter-league play from June 22 to 24.




I just can't see him wanting to go back to a team that doesn't have a chance to win a title. It would be nice to get out of that cost for next year so that we can go out and perhaps pick up a closer or another right handed bat. With his and Milton's contract off the books, and maybe a little bump in the payroll (if you wouldn't mind Mr. Castellini :pray:), we could pick a few big pieces...

The Reds need:

1. a closer
2. IF Bray comes back healthy and effective we still need one more reliable arm for the late innings
3. a catcher who can hit .250 and handle a pitching staff
4. a 3rd baseman
5. Votto has to be the real deal
6. Belisle has to be an effective 3rd starter.
7. Bailey has to be the real deal immediatley ( i suspect Lohse is a goner after 2007 )
8. No injuries to Phillips, Gonzo, Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey, Harang, Arroyo,Weathers

IF all that happens then the Reds will be a playoff contender in 2008.

Now you know why speculation is staring that a healthy productive Griffey might want out if Cincinnati.

jojo
05-17-2007, 10:26 PM
Rosenthal is pretty much irrelevant.... This is a perfect example of a lazy writer going with the easiest possible tripe.

1. The Ms dont want him since guillen is having a very good year so far in RF for them and they seem very pleased with the empty production from Vidro at DH (plus they've got about $12M invested in him).

2. Griffey sure as heck doesn't want Seattle. He wasn't crying when he left for starters. But more importantly, there isn't a farther place from Florida than Seattle in baseball terms. There is a reason it's difficult to get free agents to come to Seattle and it has nothing to do with wins and losses and every thing to do with time zones and travel etc....

3. Now factor in the reality that a significant portion of Griffey's contract is still sitting there to the tune of about $50 million when considering '07, '08 and his buyout (though a condition of a trade would likely be picking up the '09 option) plus the deferred money he's still owed (I think it's somewhere around $24M). Also consider DH is one of the easiest positions to find decent compromises with the bat. It's virtually impossible to trade Jr to anyone IMHO......

marcshoe
05-17-2007, 10:30 PM
Does some sportswriter just cut and paste this once or twice a year?

IslandRed
05-17-2007, 10:47 PM
Now factor in the reality that a significant portion of Griffey's contract is still sitting there to the tune of about $50 million when considering '07, '08 and his buyout (though a condition of a trade would likely be picking up the '09 option) plus the deferred money he's still owed (I think it's somewhere around $24M).

As I understand the mechanics of Griffey's contract, you're double-counting the deferred money. Those payments, which don't start until after his contract ends, will come from the proceeds of investments -- annuities, probably -- and part of what the Reds are spending on Griffey every year is to make sure those investments are fully funded by the time payouts start. He's drawing "only" $6 million in actual salary this year. JaxRed has estimated the annual present-day value of his contract -- salary + funding the future deferrals -- at $10-something million. If true, then the Reds have around $22-23 million in remaining cash obligations, factoring in what's already been paid this year and presuming they buy out 2009.

Of course, you're probably right when you say he'd want the 2009 option picked up in return for waiving his no-trade, so the Reds would have to kick in some cash to make a deal happen, I imagine.

VR
05-17-2007, 10:56 PM
From Ken Rosenthal / FoxSports.com via mlbtraderumors.com...

Ken Griffey Jr., Reds: He's hot, his team's not.

the M's are planning special events for Griffey when the Reds visit Seattle during inter-league play from June 22 to 24.




And I will be there for all three :beerme:, I'll be cheering for him, whichever team he's on then ;)

jimbo
05-17-2007, 11:00 PM
I'd hate to think how putrid this lineup would be right now with Griffey.

BaseballBum
05-17-2007, 11:33 PM
He's way too big of a risk for any team to shell out $20+ million over the next two years. A few healthy months is not going to convince anyone to pick up his contract.

larks
05-17-2007, 11:38 PM
Fine Griffey for Clement and Morrow would be fine by me :devil:

fearofpopvol1
05-17-2007, 11:48 PM
He's way too big of a risk for any team to shell out $20+ million over the next two years. A few healthy months is not going to convince anyone to pick up his contract.

If he is still this hot in July and contenders want a power bat, someone will cough up the money (assuming he wants to be traded).

WMR
05-18-2007, 12:10 AM
If you're going to trade him, trade him to a contender.

jmac
05-18-2007, 12:36 AM
I'd hate to think how putrid this lineup would be right now with Griffey.

Vintage Jr is the main thing worth watching right now.

WVRedsFan
05-18-2007, 01:16 AM
For a team that can't score runs, why in the world would we want to trade him now? I can't imagine this team without him. Talk about non-scoring.

Balderdash.

Jpup
05-18-2007, 01:20 AM
For a team that can't score runs, why in the world would we want to trade him now? I can't imagine this team without him. Talk about non-scoring.

Balderdash.

why would you want to keep him and spend all of that money for nothing? sure, he's producing and we all like the guy, but the Reds aren't contending anytime soon. what's the use?

Eric_Davis
05-18-2007, 01:26 AM
Whether he's playing RF for the REDS or the M's, I've got my tickets for Sat/Sun along the RF line in sections 115/114, respectively.

Please, Junior, don't get injured in the next month.

Eric_Davis
05-18-2007, 01:28 AM
One of the Mets outfielders will go down and end up on the 60-Day DL, so the Mets will come calling.

WVRedsFan
05-18-2007, 01:49 AM
why would you want to keep him and spend all of that money for nothing? sure, he's producing and we all like the guy, but the Reds aren't contending anytime soon. what's the use?


Because he's cheap for what he does. I sure as the world don't want to go through the rest of this season scoring 3 runs a game with our pitching staff. Can you imagine? This lineup (or whatever Jerry calls it) can't score runs with good pitching. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see if you main threat goes away.

Ah yes. Pitching and defense . We need more of it and forget the offense. Like we have anyone in this lineup who can produce runs. I give up.

BCubb2003
05-18-2007, 02:35 AM
What's Phil Nevin doing these days?

jimbo
05-18-2007, 02:54 AM
why would you want to keep him and spend all of that money for nothing?

As opposed to spending less for nothing? For the numbers he puts up he comes cheap when considering what the Juan Pierres of the world are raking in. Using that logic, I guess Arroyo and Harang should be traded also. Wouldn't want to spend all that money on them for nothing.

UC_Ken
05-18-2007, 09:04 AM
He's way too big of a risk for any team to shell out $20+ million over the next two years. A few healthy months is not going to convince anyone to pick up his contract.

Griffey's a lot more tradeable than he's ever been. He no longer has the burden of a long-term contract and he's hitting the best he's hit since coming here. Whereas in the past he had a negative trade value because of his contract and injuries he has a positive trade value now and if he stays hot he'll have every contender who needs a left handed bat lining up to get him.

jojo
05-18-2007, 09:13 AM
Griffey's a lot more tradeable than he's ever been. He no longer has the burden of a long-term contract and he's hitting the best he's hit since coming here. Whereas in the past he had a negative trade value because of his contract and injuries he has a positive trade value now and if he stays hot he'll have every contender who needs a left handed bat lining up to get him.

How many teams need a $12.5M DH?

UC_Ken
05-18-2007, 09:17 AM
How many teams couldn't use another .900 OPS bat in their lineup? And while Griffey isn't a great fielder anymore he's not Manny Ramirez or Adam Dunn in the OF.

Chip R
05-18-2007, 09:24 AM
For a team that can't score runs, why in the world would we want to trade him now? I can't imagine this team without him. Talk about non-scoring.

Balderdash.

I don't want to trade him either but he may actually have some value now. You never know when the diverticulitis or the pluersey or a sprained ankle or a hamstring tweak is going to happen. If you can get a good, young catcher for him - like one of those guys on the Braves - or a guy like Papelbon (Not Papelbon, of course, but someone like him) you have to think pretty hard about doing that deal.

jojo
05-18-2007, 09:36 AM
How many teams couldn't use another .900 OPS bat in their lineup? And while Griffey isn't a great fielder anymore he's not Manny Ramirez or Adam Dunn in the OF.

Thats a bit of handwaving.... How many teams need a DH and of those teams, how many can't find a suitable solution for less that two years/$25M plus whatever it takes to trade for the priviledge? And how many truly are willing to gamble they'd get an injury free return on their investment or just get a .900 OPS period? Those aren't trivial questions.

bucksfan2
05-18-2007, 10:12 AM
How many teams need a $12.5M DH?

Frank Thomas??? I would take Griffey in a heart beat over Thomas.

jojo
05-18-2007, 10:21 AM
Frank Thomas??? I would take Griffey in a heart beat over Thomas.

All Frank Thomas does is reduce the number of potential suitors for Griffey. BTW, Thomas was siged for considerably less tha what is owed Griffey and Thomas didn't require giving up useful players in trade.

Basically for the reds to get rid of Jr, they'll either have to eat a significant amount of money or they'll basically have to give him away for not much. If Jr does convince people he is worth his contract, why would the Reds get rid of him?

I don't see anyway around it, either he's not worth the money and nobody would want him or he's worth the money and the Reds can't afford to replace him. It's the money that's the issue. There is no way he's worth both the money AND useful players too. IMHO, in either scenario, he's pretty much a Red.

Anyway, that's my argument for what it's worth.

I say, sit back and enjoy that sweet swing while you can.

M2
05-18-2007, 10:57 AM
Teams that might have an interest in Jr.:

Atlanta - Currently playing Matt Diaz and Willie Harris in LF, fine bench players, but not starter-grade.

Philadelphia - Shane Victorino's scappy, but scrappy ain't going to catch the Mets and Braves.

Houston - The complete lack of functional bats at 2B, SS and 3B is a bigger problem, but Luke Scott is probably not the answer in RF (Hunter Pence looks like he's going to be the CF) and this team needs offense. Plus, there's that unspent Roger Clemens money kicking around.

St. Louis - Currently last in the NL in scoring. Pujols is struggling. Rolen, Eckstein and Edmonds have fallen apart. Can't call them a contender given the way they're playing, but Jr. might perceive them to be a contender given their 2006 title. Of course, I'm not sure what they have to offer in return.

Chicago Cubs - Might actually play him in CF.

Cleveland - Lacks power in the OF corners.

Detroit - Team has ridden the Craig Monroe bus as far as it's going.

Chicago White Sox - 4th in the AL in pitching, 14th in scoring. Rob Mackowiak is the current LF.

New York Yankees - Don't really need him, but you never know what George will do. Jr. for Abreu? I'd do it.

Baltimore - Not really a contender, but it's in the right geographic spot, it has the need and Jr. is the only guy who's hit the warehouse.

MartyFan
05-18-2007, 11:13 AM
Rosenthal is pretty much irrelevant.... This is a perfect example of a lazy writer going with the easiest possible tripe.

1. The Ms dont want him since guillen is having a very good year so far in RF for them and they seem very pleased with the empty production from Vidro at DH (plus they've got about $12M invested in him).

2. Griffey sure as heck doesn't want Seattle. He wasn't crying when he left for starters. But more importantly, there isn't a farther place from Florida than Seattle in baseball terms. There is a reason it's difficult to get free agents to come to Seattle and it has nothing to do with wins and losses and every thing to do with time zones and travel etc....

3. Now factor in the reality that a significant portion of Griffey's contract is still sitting there to the tune of about $50 million when considering '07, '08 and his buyout (though a condition of a trade would likely be picking up the '09 option) plus the deferred money he's still owed (I think it's somewhere around $24M). Also consider DH is one of the easiest positions to find decent compromises with the bat. It's virtually impossible to trade Jr to anyone IMHO......

I don't know, Cincinnati isn't looking like we have much of a team this year...it could be further away.

KoryMac5
05-18-2007, 11:50 AM
Thats a bit of handwaving.... How many teams need a DH and of those teams, how many can't find a suitable solution for less that two years/$25M plus whatever it takes to trade for the priviledge? And how many truly are willing to gamble they'd get an injury free return on their investment or just get a .900 OPS period? Those aren't trivial questions.

JR. is 10/5 player which means he can overrule any trade. I sincerely doubt that he would allow himself to be traded to a team that would use him strictly as a DH.

jojo
05-18-2007, 12:09 PM
JR. is 10/5 player which means he can overrule any trade. I sincerely doubt that he would allow himself to be traded to a team that would use him strictly as a DH.

If true, that probably makes the list of potential trade partners much smaller.

gm
05-18-2007, 12:14 PM
Whether he's playing RF for the REDS or the M's, I've got my tickets for Sat/Sun along the RF line in sections 115/114, respectively.

Please, Junior, don't get injured in the next month.

I'll be there Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Want to hook up? (If yes, PM me)

gm
05-18-2007, 12:37 PM
Luke Scott is probably not the answer in RF.

Now that he's done facing Red's relief pitching, you mean...

Moonlite Graham
05-18-2007, 03:39 PM
I'll be there Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Want to hook up? (If yes, PM me)

Were coming cross country for the series.

While Im excited about seeing Seattle for the first time, a better Reds team would've made me look forward to it all the more.

Oh well, I guess weve still got a month to get better (wishful thinking):pray:

2001MUgrad
05-18-2007, 03:44 PM
Why do they need to put a pit of money into Dunn. Offer him no more than Larkin's last contract. If he doesn't take it, oh well. Go get 10 Ryan Freels.

jimbo
05-18-2007, 04:13 PM
Go get 10 Ryan Freels.

1 Ryan Freel is enough in my opinion.

Razor Shines
05-18-2007, 04:15 PM
Why do they need to put a pit of money into Dunn. Offer him no more than Larkin's last contract. If he doesn't take it, oh well. Go get 10 Ryan Freels.

That's a lot of base running mistakes.

gm
05-18-2007, 05:50 PM
Why do they need to put a pit of money into Dunn. Offer him no more than Larkin's last contract. If he doesn't take it, oh well. Go get 10 Ryan Freels.

Imagine trying to herd 10 spastic weasels...

Redlegs
05-19-2007, 06:58 PM
I always thought Roesenthal was well respected. The few times I've read him, he's been on the money.

oregonred
05-19-2007, 10:47 PM
I'll be there Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Want to hook up? (If yes, PM me)

gm/VR -- Figures, I move away from PDX after 10 years and the Reds make it within driving distance the following summer :bang:

At least there will be plenty of good tickets avaialble for that Reds/Marlins mid-July showdown series in Dolphin Stadium. Should be nice and cool, probably bring an extra sweatshirt or two just in case ;)

Kingspoint
05-20-2007, 01:38 AM
Should be an incredible happening that weekend.

KronoRed
05-20-2007, 01:41 AM
That's a lot of base running mistakes.

and a huge lack of any kind of power.