Wily Mo's days as a Red Sox may be numbered

[jimbo]

Just saw this on ESPN Insider. Looks like Boston may be trying to move Pena.


Cutting their losses?
May 12 - Don't be surprised if the Red Sox decide to deal Wily Mo Pena. Although Pena has prodigious power, he is becoming a liability in the field.

According to the Providence Journal, one AL official said Pena still has some trade value, though it seems to be decreasing almost daily. But a team probably would take a chance on his potential.

"It's just a matter of how little they would take," the official told the newspaper.

Small-market teams in search of some pop might be tempted since Pena is young (25), relatively affordable ($3M) and under control through next season. Out of the spotlight and given the opportunity to play every day, he could develop.

[Joseph]

Hello Washington.

[Reds Freak]

I'm sure the Nationals would be interested...

[jimbo]

You guys were reading my mind.

[mroby85]

i would take him. i dunno where you would play him though. i loved wily mo.

[jimbo]

Why would the Reds need another bad outfielder who is a hacker at the plate?

[TOBTTReds]

^Because he is young, a strong RH bat off the bench, and KILLS LH pitching. Pretty much exactly what this team needs.

[WMR]

Wily Mo in CF, Hamilton in RF, Griffey in LF, Dunn at 1st, Freel back to supersub once EE is recalled...

[jimbo]

^Because he is young, a strong RH bat off the bench, and KILLS LH pitching. Pretty much exactly what this team needs.

Since 2004, he's had 300 at-bats against left-hand pitchers and has struck out 113 times. I wouldn't characterize that as killing left-handed pitching.

[fadetoblack2880]

^Because he is young, a strong RH bat off the bench, and KILLS LH pitching. Pretty much exactly what this team needs.

This team needs alot more than that. I liked Wily Mo, but would he really make that big of a difference. I don't think he would help all that much.

[MartyFan]

What about...WilyMo in RF, Hamilton in CF, Dunn in LF EE back at 3B, Junior traded, Freel as super sub...Hatte/Conine at 1B

[AtomicDumpling]

Maybe they would take Hatteberg in exchange for Pena. Hatterberg is the kind of high-OBP guy the Red Sox like. He would be a role-player, pinch-hitter to get on base for the big boys to bring home.

Purely hypothetical in my imagination of course.

Then we could move Dunn to 1B, Freel to LF (and infield sub), EE to 3B and have Wily-Mo as the 4th outfielder.

[jimbo]

I really don't get why anyone would want this guy back. He is a one-dimensional hitter who is a poor outfielder. And to trade for him and replace Griffey with him? Seriously?

[AtomicDumpling]

I really don't get why anyone would want this guy back. He is a one-dimensional hitter who is a poor outfielder. And to trade for him and replace Griffey with him? Seriously?

I agree that WMP was a very poor outfielder. He is the worst at judging the flight of a baseball that I have seen in long time. He gets terrible jumps off the bat.

I would consider WMP merely a 4th outfielder on a decent team. He sure would make a nice pinch-hitter though. Much better than the likes of Castro, Keppinger and Valentin.

I would be willing to trade a spare part for him. He is the same age as Encarnacion and Hamilton. He still has some growth potential. But if an organization as astute as Boston is ready to give up on him then I bet there is a good reason.

[Eric_Davis]

Just saw this on ESPN Insider. Looks like Boston may be trying to move Pena.

Surprise, surprise.

Sorry, WilyMoRocks.

[sonny]

How about Hatte, Conine, Coffey and Stanton
for
Wily Mo, Dice-K, Beckett and Youkalis

Make it happen Wayne!:thumbup:

[RFS62]

We should definitely trade for him. Then we could get him to agree to rework his contract so we can send him down to AAA and work on his fielding.

[Heath]

Boy, Wily Mo had some lights on moments in Cincinnati.

Could the Boy Wonder Epstein admit he made a bad trade? It looks like it.

I'd take him for a PBTNL if the Sox can't find anybody else. But, he'll end up in Washington.

[rotnoid]

He's becoming a liability in the field? When was he not?

[Rotater Cuff]

I'm not sure why Wily Mo wouldn't be a perfect designated hitter for an AL team. Sure, Boston's loaded (who wouldn't be with their payroll), but Wily is an impact hitter who has a pretty good batting average, and should get more patient with experience. If I was Detroit or Kansas City, he'd be my DH for that kind of $

[edabbs44]

Wily Mo in CF, Hamilton in RF, Griffey in LF, Dunn at 1st, Freel back to supersub once EE is recalled...

"Wily Mo in Center" would be the #1 comedy of the season.

[StillFunkyB]

We should definitely trade for him. Then we could get him to agree to rework his contract so we can send him down to AAA and work on his fielding.

:laugh:

[Degenerate39]

I'd like to see him back in Cincy but without giving up much for him. Nice power hitting righty off the bench wouldn't be so bad.

[westofyou]

The ballad of Adolfo Phillips

[blumj]

I'm not sure why Wily Mo wouldn't be a perfect designated hitter for an AL team. Sure, Boston's loaded (who wouldn't be with their payroll), but Wily is an impact hitter who has a pretty good batting average, and should get more patient with experience. If I was Detroit or Kansas City, he'd be my DH for that kind of $
I don't know why so many AL teams still treat the DH spot like they're an NL team playing a few interleague games a year.

[hebroncougar]

^Because he is young, a strong RH bat off the bench, and KILLS LH pitching. Pretty much exactly what this team needs.

That'll vault us past the 5 other teams in the NL Central within a month, you're right.

[RichRed]

Since 2004, he's had 300 at-bats against left-hand pitchers and has struck out 113 times. I wouldn't characterize that as killing left-handed pitching.

He's also OPS'd to the tune of .850 - not bad at all.

But I agree he wouldn't fit into the "strikeouts-are-bad-Castro-is-good" offensive philosophy the Reds have adopted.

[Patrick Bateman]

Since 2004, he's had 300 at-bats against left-hand pitchers and has struck out 113 times. I wouldn't characterize that as killing left-handed pitching.

An .850 OPS suggests he's pretty good against LH pitching.

[texasdave]

His career fielding numbers in CF aren't bad at all. In just over 1000 innings in center his fielding percentage is .983 compared to .988 for baseball center fielders over that time. His Range factor in CF is 2.58. The average CF for that time period is 2.24. (If I am reading the numbers from baseball-reference.com correctly. He will probably OPS at least .825 in GABP. Not bad at all for a center fielder.

[Highlifeman21]

Wily Mo in CF, Hamilton in RF, Griffey in LF, Dunn at 1st, Freel back to supersub once EE is recalled...

Can't be much worse than what we currently trot out there everyday.

[jimbo]

Can't be much worse than what we currently trot out there everyday.

I beg to differ. :D

[Highlifeman21]

I beg to differ. :D

Would you rather have Dunn or WMP @ 1B or do you prefer Hatteberg/Conine?

I prefer WMP over our current 1B situation.

[jimbo]

Would you rather have Dunn or WMP @ 1B or do you prefer Hatteberg/Conine?

I prefer WMP over our current 1B situation.

Not me. I don't prefer any lineup with WMP in it on a regular basis. By putting him in the outfield and Dunn at first does nothing to help your outfield defensively and weakens your infield, and the last thing this team needs is another undisciplined one-dimensional hitter.

But that's just my humble opinion.

[TOBTTReds]

That'll vault us past the 5 other teams in the NL Central within a month, you're right.

:laugh:

yes that will! Haha. no but I think it would help us hit lefties. This team has about 20 needs. One of them is a righty that can hit lefties. That is what he is. Therefore, he is exactly what the Reds need. Not the only thing they need, but it is one thing. Geesh, people took my comments like I said we would make the playoffs if we got him.

[DTCromer]

Would you rather have Dunn or WMP @ 1B or do you prefer Hatteberg/Conine?

I prefer WMP over our current 1B situation.


Wily Mo plays lazy in the OF. I highly doubt he'd be willing to learn and play 1B so I think the conversation ends right there.

[Degenerate39]

WMP just homered.

[TOBTTReds]

WMP just homered.

Of course he did. He was facing a lefty. :devil:

[blumj]

Wily Mo plays lazy in the OF.

No, he doesn't. Manny plays lazy in the OF, Wily Mo plays like a blind person in the OF. He quite obviously has no idea in which direction or how far the ball is hit. But he's trying, that's obvious, too.

[hebroncougar]

:laugh:

yes that will! Haha. no but I think it would help us hit lefties. This team has about 20 needs. One of them is a righty that can hit lefties. That is what he is. Therefore, he is exactly what the Reds need. Not the only thing they need, but it is one thing. Geesh, people took my comments like I said we would make the playoffs if we got him. No need to be smart with me.

Ahhhh, just being cynical. I have to find humor in something these days when I talk or think about the Reds. I think they are going backwards instead of foward anymore. No harm intended.

[demas863]

Narron could use him to spell Dunn for defensive purposes in tight games/late innings in left.

[Matt700wlw]

Wayne won the Arroyo/Pena trade.

Steal. Good job, Wayne!

[Highlifeman21]

Not me. I don't prefer any lineup with WMP in it on a regular basis. By putting him in the outfield and Dunn at first does nothing to help your outfield defensively and weakens your infield, and the last thing this team needs is another undisciplined one-dimensional hitter.

But that's just my humble opinion.

Dunn's put up good defensive numbers in his limited time @ 1B.

Not that it'll ever happen, but it would be refreshing to have Adam Dunn tells us exactly why he's against playing 1B on a regular basis.

The move to 1B will only prolong his career. No cons that I can see.

[jojo]

What WMP needs most is for some team in the AL to acquire him, stick him in as their DH and forget about him for a season. Basically give him everyday at bats and his stick will probably become electric. With Boston, his OBP is .350. In the lineup everyday, .280/.340/.540 isn't a pipedream.

[Handofdeath]

Maybe they would take Hatteberg in exchange for Pena. Hatterberg is the kind of high-OBP guy the Red Sox like. He would be a role-player, pinch-hitter to get on base for the big boys to bring home.

Purely hypothetical in my imagination of course.

Then we could move Dunn to 1B, Freel to LF (and infield sub), EE to 3B and have Wily-Mo as the 4th outfielder.

Don't go counting on a player(EE) who's been sent down twice in two seasons.

[15fan]

Are the Red Sox looking for starting pitching? I'd give them Eric Milton for Wily Mo.

[WMR]

"Wily Mo in Center" would be the #1 comedy of the season.


His career fielding numbers in CF aren't bad at all. In just over 1000 innings in center his fielding percentage is .983 compared to .988 for baseball center fielders over that time. His Range factor in CF is 2.58. The average CF for that time period is 2.24. (If I am reading the numbers from baseball-reference.com correctly. He will probably OPS at least .825 in GABP. Not bad at all for a center fielder.

Exactly, texasdave, thank you.

I guess as long as people refuse to realize that WMP in CF is much different than WMP in RF or LF, this myth that he is an altogether horrible fielder will continue.

He is a good centerfielder with excellent range and MUCH MUCH better instincts.

[jimbo]

Dunn's put up good defensive numbers in his limited time @ 1B.

Not that it'll ever happen, but it would be refreshing to have Adam Dunn tells us exactly why he's against playing 1B on a regular basis.

The move to 1B will only prolong his career. No cons that I can see.

Good points. Personally though I just feel a poor defender is going to be poor no matter where you put him. I think Dunn would be a poor first baseman just as he is a poor left fielder.

I admit thought that I could be totally wrong. We'll never really know unless Dunn gets some long-term playing time at first. With the direction that this team is going, maybe soon would be the right time. No way I want WMP replacing him in the outfield though. Trade for another right-handed batter who plays a good outfield instead.

[blumj]

What WMP needs most is for some team in the AL to acquire him, stick him in as their DH and forget about him for a season. Basically give him everyday at bats and his stick will probably become electric. With Boston, his OBP is .350. In the lineup everyday, .280/.340/.540 isn't a pipedream.
And there are plenty of AL teams wasting all their DH ABs on guys who are not going to give them that. But the way things have been going for the Red Sox lately, why would they be in any hurry to trade Wily Mo without getting something back they'd actually want for him?

[pedro]

Exactly, texasdave, thank you.

I guess as long as people refuse to realize that WMP in CF is much different than WMP in RF or LF, this myth that he is an altogether horrible fielder will continue.

He is a good centerfielder with excellent range and MUCH MUCH better instincts.

While WMP may be better in CF than he is at the corners if he was a good CF he'd be playing there every day for the Red Sox. Coco Crisp has a an OPS of .620 and a sub .300 OBP.

Unless, of course, Theo Epstein is a moron too.

[TOBTTReds]

Exactly, texasdave, thank you.

I guess as long as people refuse to realize that WMP in CF is much different than WMP in RF or LF, this myth that he is an altogether horrible fielder will continue.

He is a good centerfielder with excellent range and MUCH MUCH better instincts.

Come on. You can't really believe this. He is a better CF than LF and RF. but he is by no means a good CF'er. He is still awful. I've watched most of his games this year and he is still miserable out there. I love the guy, he is my favorite player, maybe of all time. But he is gloveman. He is a defensive miscue machine. Errors mean absolutely NOTHING when it comes to outfielders.

[TOBTTReds]

Ahhhh, just being cynical. I have to find humor in something these days when I talk or think about the Reds. I think they are going backwards instead of foward anymore. No harm intended.

My bad. Sorry about that response then, just got a bit defensive.

[WMR]

While WMP may be better in CF than he is at the corners if he was a good CF he'd be playing there every day for the Red Sox. Coco Crisp has a an OPS of .620 and a sub .300 OBP.

Unless, of course, Theo Epstein is a moron too.

I think the determination has been made, wrongly, that WMP cannot play good-enough defense to factor into the Red Sox long term plans.

Further, I think the decision has been made that Coco is the offensive skillset guy (ideally anyway) that they want considering the rest of their lineup.

[WMR]

Come on. You can't really believe this. He is a better CF than LF and RF. but he is by no means a good CF'er. He is still awful. I've watched most of his games this year and he is still miserable out there. I love the guy, he is my favorite player, maybe of all time. But he is gloveman. He is a defensive miscue machine. Errors mean absolutely NOTHING when it comes to outfielders.

I think if you pencilled his name into the centerfielder's spot and left it there he'd prove you wrong over the long haul.

The guy has still never been given prolonged, consistent playing time at his most comfortable position.

[jimbo]

The guy has still never been given prolonged, consistent playing time at his most comfortable position.

And there's good reason why he hasn't been given that playing time.

[WMR]

And there's good reason why he hasn't been given that playing time.

Because he was blocked by an aging Hall of Famer who, for the last 3-4 seasons, he could outplay in centerfield?

Because he's never had a manager who really believed in him and stuck him in a corner to try and "minimize his damage?"

I disagree with you.

[Highlifeman21]

Because he was blocked by an aging Hall of Famer who, for the last 3-4 seasons, he could outplay in centerfield?

Because he's never had a manager who really believed in him and stuck him in a corner to try and "minimize his damage?"

I disagree with you.

I prefer WMP in the OF over Ryan Freel anyday.

WMP would be a much better option for us as a RHB even if he's a bench player.

[TOBTTReds]

Because he was blocked by an aging Hall of Famer who, for the last 3-4 seasons, he could outplay in centerfield?

Because he's never had a manager who really believed in him and stuck him in a corner to try and "minimize his damage?"

I disagree with you.

He got some decent time last year in Boston when Coco was hurt. I'm sorry, the guy is awful in the field. There is no way around it. The fans in Boston want him to play more too though. He hits a lot better than Coco, but the fielding is such a problem that Tito doesn't want to put him out there.

[WMR]

He got some decent time last year in Boston when Coco was hurt. I'm sorry, the guy is awful in the field. There is no way around it. The fans in Boston want him to play more too though. He hits a lot better than Coco, but the fielding is such a problem that Tito doesn't want to put him out there.

The zone ratings and time I have spent watching him say otherwise, but, again, to each his own.

[jimbo]

Because he was blocked by an aging Hall of Famer who, for the last 3-4 seasons, he could outplay in centerfield?

Because he's never had a manager who really believed in him and stuck him in a corner to try and "minimize his damage?"

I disagree with you.

That's fine, this place wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed on everything. :beerme:

All I'm saying is that managers are not sticking with him or believing in him because he hasn't given them a reason to.

[jimbo]

The fans in Boston want him to play more too though.

I don't know, there was a link on here a few weeks ago, after WMP misplayed a fly ball in CF, to a thread on a Reds Sox board. Judging from that reading, they wanted nothing to do with him in the outfield.

I agree with you though, I think he is a terrible outfielder.

[blumj]

I don't know, there was a link on here a few weeks ago, after WMP misplayed a fly ball in CF, to a thread on a Reds Sox board. Judging from that reading, they wanted nothing to do with him in the outfield.

I agree with you though, I think he is a terrible outfielder.
It's both. You don't much want him in the OF, you'd like him in the lineup. Red Sox fans don't have all that much to complain about these days, so what little they do have gets magnified.

[IslandRed]

I think if you pencilled his name into the centerfielder's spot and left it there he'd prove you wrong over the long haul.

The guy has still never been given prolonged, consistent playing time at his most comfortable position.

I'm sure there are guys who play a better CF than they play in the corners. But I'm not sure I've ever seen a genuinely good CF who was that bad in the corners. You're asking a team to take a pretty big leap of faith there.

Anyway, Boston is one of the more analytical teams around and I'm sure, if they cared to, they've broken down every inning WMP has ever played in center field. If they thought he would be good, he would probably be there right now.

[TOBTTReds]

I don't know, there was a link on here a few weeks ago, after WMP misplayed a fly ball in CF, to a thread on a Reds Sox board. Judging from that reading, they wanted nothing to do with him in the outfield.

I agree with you though, I think he is a terrible outfielder.

It might be more of them fed up with Coco actually. One of my good friends at work is a Sox season ticket holder so we have discussed it a bit. Obviously he doesn't represent the whole fan base, but he feels that WMP needs a chance over Coco.

[TC81190]

Poor Wily Mo, I wish the dude could get a string of 100 games fairly consecutively so he could really spark.

[Newman4]

How about Lohse for WMP? Anyone? Anyone?

[jojo]

How about Lohse for WMP? Anyone? Anyone?

I don't think the Bosox really need another 5th starter. Their rotation is very deep. However, if they wanted a starter, Pena for Baker could be done in like 5 minutes so Lohse probably wouldn't be that enticing to Epstein.

IMHO, I think the BoSox would like to flip Pena for something young and interesting if possible. LAA, Minnesota, Atlanta, and CHW seem like the best trade partners from the standpoint that they have the greatest need for what Pena can provide while being in a position to pay the highest for him.

Pena really is a luxury for the BoSox and they really don't have a dramatic pressing need. It will be fun to see what they do.

[westofyou]

Poor Wily Mo, I wish the dude could get a string of 100 games fairly consecutively so he could really spark.

Or he could burn his game down to the foundation.

He's that type of player, too many ifs and buts for me.

[TeamSelig]

Greatest player to never get a legitimate chance?

[westofyou]

Greatest player to never get a legitimate chance?

Over 1100 at bats at age of 24 is still better then some guys, say Hugh Alexander. Supposed to be great, comes up at age 19 for the Indians in 1937 in September for a taste of the big leagues. In the off season an accident at the sawmill costs him his hand. That's not getting a legitimate chance.

Wily Mo's story has a bit of Sid Finch attached to it, and the pixie dust is diminishing.

[blumj]

Greatest player to never get a legitimate chance?
Good grief, he's all of 25 years old. Plenty of chances left to be had.

[Unassisted]

25 is old for a player to still be considered a project.

I liked Wily Mo too, but don't see a place for him in Cincinnati since the Reds only need a DH about 20 times a year.

[TeamSelig]

Good grief, he's all of 25 years old. Plenty of chances left to be had.

I know how old he is.

I was just mentioning his 'bad luck' of never really getting much of a chance. We stuck him on the roster for a while, then due to injuries he gets a little PT, and it appears that he might have a starting job. Then we ship him out for Bronson (great trade for us) and it looks like he might get a starting job there, but it doesn't happen. He is benched, and rarely plays, also sent to the minors.

I know he isn't a very good fielder at all, but I still miss Mo.