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CTA513
05-19-2007, 03:28 AM
I saw this while on the Reds website:


Reds file grievance against Nats
Dispute claims reliever Majewski was damaged goods

By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CLEVELAND -- The Reds have formally filed a grievance against the Nationals in a nearly year-long dispute that alleges damaged goods were received when they acquired reliever Gary Majewski.

According to sources of the Washington Post, Major League officials have begun speaking with people from both teams regarding the case.

"We're looking into the matter," MLB spokesman Mike Teevan told the Post on Friday. "There's no firm deadline by which we have to reach a decision."

On July 13, 2006, Majewski, reliever Bill Bray, shortstop Royce Clayton and two Minor Leaguers were acquired by the Reds in an eight-player trade that sent outfielder Austin Kearns, shortstop Felipe Lopez and reliever Ryan Wagner to the Nationals.

Shortly after the deal was made, Majewski went on the disabled list with right shoulder inflammation. He later revealed that he had a sore shoulder from the start of the last season and received a cortisone injection from the Washington medical staff not long before the trade was executed.

At the time, Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky alleged that the Nationals and GM Jim Bowden did not provide full disclosure about Majewski's medical issue.

When reached on Friday night, Krivsky declined comment. Bowden also declined to comment on the story.

In 65 appearances last season with Washington and Cincinnati, Majewski was 4-4 with a 4.61 ERA. With the Reds, the 27-year-old was 1-2 with an 8.40 ERA.

Majewski has continued to have shoulder issues this year and did not begin throwing with the team at the start of Spring Training. He has been with Triple-A Louisville all season and is 1-1 with a 5.54 ERA in 13 games. He resumed pitching on Wednesday for the first time since May 1 after he missed time because of a death in the family and later, a recurrence of shoulder soreness from throwing after being inactive for several days.



Source: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070519&content_id=1973651&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

MartyFan
05-19-2007, 03:31 AM
Interesting

KronoRed
05-19-2007, 03:36 AM
Here we go http://lastperson.suncircle.org/Smileys/default/popcorn1.gif

AtomicDumpling
05-19-2007, 04:06 AM
Has anybody ever heard of any trade grievances in the past?

I wonder what the possible outcomes of this grievance could be. Are there any precedents?

Hopefully we can send Maj back to Washington and get either Kearns or Lopez back. Then we would have an auction to see what we could obtain for that guy around the league. That would be interesting.


My guess is a cash settlement will ensue. We should at least get another major league reliever out of this.

pedro
05-19-2007, 04:22 AM
Has anybody ever heard of any trade grievances in the past?

I wonder what the possible outcomes of this grievance could be. Are there any precedents?

Hopefully we can send Maj back to Washington and get either Kearns or Lopez back. Then we would have an auction to see what we could obtain for that guy around the league. That would be interesting.


My guess is a cash settlement will ensue. We should at least get another major league reliever out of this.


I don't remember the specifics but there was an issue between Boston & Pittsburgh a few years back that ended with the Pirates getting (IIRC) Freddy Sanchez. I don't think a formal grievance was filed though.

Jr's Boy
05-19-2007, 04:26 AM
All of a sudden this makes the news again.Nice to know Krivski's on the case during these turbulent times for the Redlegs.

Eric_Davis
05-19-2007, 04:56 AM
It's about time.

I'm guessing the evidence was always there, but I would think Wayne tried to give Bowden an opportunity to swap players (Majewski for someone else), and Bowden continually refused adequate compensation.

Maybe this also explains the letting go of Brendan Harris for what many believed was so little. By letting him go for just a little, it places more importance on what Majewski meant to the deal when they go before an arbitration panel, if that's what it eventually ends up as the final decision-making process. This could take a long time.

I think the REDS are going to want Richard "Brett" Campbell for Majewski....or possibly Jermaine Van Buren.

LINEDRIVER
05-19-2007, 12:05 PM
All of a sudden this makes the news again.Nice to know Krivski's on the case during these turbulent times for the Redlegs.

This situation was bound to make the news again because approximately 3 weeks remain on the one-year deadline to file that grievance.

KoryMac5
05-19-2007, 12:35 PM
I was always my impression that the Reds had planned to file a grievance but new information kept presenting itself keeping them from making their strongest case. Must be they have everything they wanted to present mlb.

BearcatShane
05-19-2007, 12:38 PM
I'll take their first round pick in the 2007 MLB draft.

RBA
05-19-2007, 12:41 PM
The case is weak. WK failed to put into the contract for the players to pass a physical as condition for the trade. It's buyer beware in used cars and baseball. WK lost and got out hustled by the weasel Jim Bowden. If WK would of done his homework, he would know Jim Bowden's story.

fearofpopvol1
05-19-2007, 01:32 PM
The case is weak. WK failed to put into the contract for the players to pass a physical as condition for the trade. It's buyer beware in used cars and baseball. WK lost and got out hustled by the weasel Jim Bowden. If WK would of done his homework, he would know Jim Bowden's story.

While that is true, you have to understand that trades during the season rarely (if ever) involve a physical. It's assumed that it's good faith because when you're in a race you want the players to make an impact immediately.

Redsland
05-19-2007, 02:11 PM
So, ten months to photocopy some papers and write a letter? Nice work if you can get it.

BTW, it took the Reds almost as long to file a grievance about tendinitis as it did for Eddie Guardado to come back from Tommy John surgery. Just sayin'.

dougflynn23
05-19-2007, 03:05 PM
The case is weak. WK failed to put into the contract for the players to pass a physical as condition for the trade. It's buyer beware in used cars and baseball. WK lost and got out hustled by the weasel Jim Bowden. If WK would of done his homework, he would know Jim Bowden's story. I agree 100%. Caveat Emptor....the buyer beware. The burden was on Krivsky to practice due dilegence. If I were MLB, I'd find in favor of the Reds and make the award zero just to demonstrate the Reds stupidity and the Nationals sleazieness.

sonny
05-19-2007, 03:14 PM
I agree 100%. Caveat Emptor....the buyer beware. The burden was on Krivsky to practice due dilegence. If I were MLB, I'd find in favor of the Reds and make the award leather pants just to demonstrate the Reds stupidity and the Nationals sleazieness.

fixed it for you:)

dsmith421
05-19-2007, 03:30 PM
I'd like to file a grievance against the Reds for putting this clown in charge of a Major League Baseball team.

Kingspoint
05-19-2007, 04:28 PM
The REDS will win this case.

You're all wrong about the buyer beware scenario when it comes to selling a car whether it's the consumer trading in their car or the dealer selling their car.

If a consumer doesn't reveal that a car has been damaged when the dealer asks the question, "has there been damage to your car", then it's revealed that there was damage while that consumer owned the car, then the consumer is responsible for either fixing the damage or the deal can be negated.

It's the same if you were purchasing a car privately. If you ask, to your knowledge, has there ever been damage to the car, and the seller lies, then you can come back and sue him.

The same is true here. If Wayne K asked Bowden, do you know if there's any damage to Majewski and what is that damage, and if Bowden lied, then Bowden is liable for either fixing the problem, negating the deal, or compensation.

In this case, it will be compensation. Medical records can be subpoened, and all parties have to cooperate. The REDS will win this case easily.

The REDS will be compensated.

There's no such thing as buyer beware anymore....hasn't been for many decades.

cincinnati chili
05-19-2007, 04:53 PM
The REDS will win this case.

You're all wrong about the buyer beware scenario when it comes to selling a car whether it's the consumer trading in their car or the dealer selling their car.

If a consumer doesn't reveal that a car has been damaged when the dealer asks the question, "has there been damage to your car", then it's revealed that there was damage while that consumer owned the car, then the consumer is responsible for either fixing the damage or the deal can be negated.

It's the same if you were purchasing a car privately. If you ask, to your knowledge, has there ever been damage to the car, and the seller lies, then you can come back and sue him.

The same is true here. If Wayne K asked Bowden, do you know if there's any damage to Majewski and what is that damage, and if Bowden lied, then Bowden is liable for either fixing the problem, negating the deal, or compensation.

In this case, it will be compensation. Medical records can be subpoened, and all parties have to cooperate. The REDS will win this case easily.

The REDS will be compensated.

There's no such thing as buyer beware anymore....hasn't been for many decades.

My money is on the Nationals winning this grievance. I'm a law student and am familiar with the breakdown of caveat emptor in many states, which you speak of.

However, it's established custom in the major leagues that a team can make a trade "pending a physical examination." The Reds chose not to do this.

In some ways, both you and I are talking out our collective :mooner:, because we don't have the Major League Basic Agreement in front of us, or the clauses that deal with these issues. But I'm pretty sure this is not going to a court of law or even an independent arbitrator. It's going to go to Bud or one of his mouthpieces. Bud won't want to set the precedent that he's going to overturn trades that turn out poorly. Instead, he'll want to impose a duty to check out players before you pull the trigger.

I'd love to be wrong. But my guess is that Bowden gets a fine for being slimy, but the Reds get diddly-squat for not doing their due diligence.

demas863
05-19-2007, 04:56 PM
It's buyer beware in used cars and baseball.

Is it? - or is like real estate where the seller must reveal anything known that might materially effect the value of the property/asset? I would like to think that MLB has more integrity than a used car salesman - no offense to you pre-owned vehicle representatives out there.

Krivsky apparently has exhausted all avenues in trying to work things out without the commissioner's office getting involved. That's why the last minute move. I'd say he's got a lot going for him in making his case. Bowden's continual denial of wrongdoing is expected. What's he going to say "Sorry, Wayne, I screwed you. How can I make it right?" He protects his integrity, or at least his own impression of it, no matter which way the Commish decides.

Would you buy a used car from Jim Bowden? Hmmm...what about Bud Selig?

GOREDSGO32
05-19-2007, 06:49 PM
I hope the Reds get something out of this. It's not reasonable to get a player back out of the trade really, but thats exactly what should happen IMO. Majeski obviously hasn't been the same since his shoulder injury - and he was the main piece to this trade. So Washington should give up the main piece they got from the trade - either Kearns or Lopez.

donnelly_31
05-19-2007, 07:46 PM
Why is everyone hopping on Krivsky calling him a clown. Narron.....yes he's an emotionless bump on a log. Krivsky has shown a willingness and aggressiveness to deal that DanO never came close to. Look at the trade everyone rips in to him about- Kearns and Lopez aren't exactly tearing it up this year, they're just more of what this club doesn't need nothing special in the field and a lack of contact hitting at the plate.

REDREAD
05-19-2007, 08:34 PM
I doubt the Reds win this.

Consider that the Reds agreed to complete the trade before all of Maj's records arrived.

The fact is that Wayne was in a huge hurry to complete the trade, and did not do due dilligence.

Also, add to the fact that the the Reds own doctor claimed that Maj was only suffering from fatigue and cleared him to pitch 2 weeks later. If the Reds' own doctor said he was ok last fall, that's pretty good reasonable doubt for the Nationals to say that "as far as we knew, he was healthy".

Nice to see Wayne finally get around to filing it though.. I think it would've been more effective to file it within 30 days. I mean, come on, how much "new evidence" did he really find?

Eric_Davis
05-19-2007, 08:41 PM
I doubt the Reds win this.

Consider that the Reds agreed to complete the trade before all of Maj's records arrived.

The fact is that Wayne was in a huge hurry to complete the trade, and did not do due dilligence.

Also, add to the fact that the the Reds own doctor claimed that Maj was only suffering from fatigue and cleared him to pitch 2 weeks later. If the Reds' own doctor said he was ok last fall, that's pretty good reasonable doubt for the Nationals to say that "as far as we knew, he was healthy".

Nice to see Wayne finally get around to filing it though.. I think it would've been more effective to file it within 30 days. I mean, come on, how much "new evidence" did he really find?

It's not an issue whether the REDS did "due diligence" or if "the REDS own doctor claimed that Majewski was only suffering from fatigue and cleared him to pitch 2 weeks later". Neither of those ideas remove the "responsibility of disclosure" away from the Nationals. The grievance is valid and the Nats will be found guilty of "conspiring to hide Majewski's known injuries". They will pay a price in compensation.

dsmith421
05-19-2007, 08:53 PM
There is absolutely no way the Reds gain something tangible from this case. Krivsky got rooked, and everyone knows it. He's an embarassment.

DTCromer
05-19-2007, 09:31 PM
There is absolutely no way the Reds gain something tangible from this case. Krivsky got rooked, and everyone knows it. He's an embarassment.

You must be one of those who think Austin Kearns is the next Willie Mays and Felipe is a Derek Jeter in the making.

Betterread
05-20-2007, 01:13 AM
The REDS will win this case.

You're all wrong about the buyer beware scenario when it comes to selling a car whether it's the consumer trading in their car or the dealer selling their car.

If a consumer doesn't reveal that a car has been damaged when the dealer asks the question, "has there been damage to your car", then it's revealed that there was damage while that consumer owned the car, then the consumer is responsible for either fixing the damage or the deal can be negated.

It's the same if you were purchasing a car privately. If you ask, to your knowledge, has there ever been damage to the car, and the seller lies, then you can come back and sue him.

The same is true here. If Wayne K asked Bowden, do you know if there's any damage to Majewski and what is that damage, and if Bowden lied, then Bowden is liable for either fixing the problem, negating the deal, or compensation.

In this case, it will be compensation. Medical records can be subpoened, and all parties have to cooperate. The REDS will win this case easily.

The REDS will be compensated.

There's no such thing as buyer beware anymore....hasn't been for many decades.


Caveat emptor is still applicable in many property law situations, which is where the doctrine started.

dsmith421
05-20-2007, 01:26 AM
You must be one of those who think Austin Kearns is the next Willie Mays and Felipe is a Derek Jeter in the making.

Nope, I'm one of those that looks at Gary Majewski, Bill Bray, Royce Clayton, Daryl Thompson and Brendan Harris and sees absolutely no production whatsoever for the 2007 Reds.

You know, like most intelligent baseball fans.

Joseph
05-20-2007, 01:34 AM
Majewski ain't going back to the Nats. Its about additional compensation, not a 'do over'.

DTCromer
05-20-2007, 08:46 AM
Nope, I'm one of those that looks at Gary Majewski, Bill Bray, Royce Clayton, Daryl Thompson and Brendan Harris and sees absolutely no production whatsoever for the 2007 Reds.

You know, like most intelligent baseball fans.

We're all missing that combined .242 BA, 6 HR, 26 RBI's, from Lopez/Kearns.

If we happened to get rid of those two wasted salaries for nothing, I'd still be happy. Fortunately, Bray and Majic still need to come back healthy.

ChatterRed
05-20-2007, 10:30 AM
I disagree. I think MLB should give the Reds back Kearns and Lopez, and allow the Reds to keep Majewski and Bray. Jim Bowden is a sleazebucket, always has been and always will be.

ChatterRed
05-20-2007, 10:32 AM
There is absolutely no way the Reds gain something tangible from this case. Krivsky got rooked, and everyone knows it. He's an embarassment.

Now that's just stupid to say that.

The only good players on this team are the ones he traded for or re-signed.

Triples
05-21-2007, 09:27 AM
I guess i would have to ask what would have been gained by filing the grievance in the first 30 days (or any earlier than now for that matter). First, we don't know for a fact what information/evidence Krivsky had at the time the injury became apparent, nor do we know what new evidence has surfaced. Further we don't know if Krivsky has held off filing the grievance because he was waiting on new evidence, because he was waiting on the commissioners office to do something about it or simply giving Bowden/the Nationals a chance to make it right. It seems to me that not being a hot reacter on this will work in the Reds favor. WK will be able to show the commish that he indeed gave the Nats full opportunity to do the right thing and they decided to take the low road. And, if the settlement is cash, or another minor league player (of questionable value, I don't see the Nats giving up their #1 prospect) or even as suggest in another post the Nats #1 draft pick, what would the Reds really have gained by pressing the issue early on. They would have only served to create a reputation as organization that is quick to pull the trigger with the lawyers. Who in the future would want to deal with an organization like that? Frankly, I think WK (and probably Castallini) showed some class in not having a knee jerk reaction to the situation and allowing it to play out over the course of the last 11 months.


I doubt the Reds win this.

Nice to see Wayne finally get around to filing it though.. I think it would've been more effective to file it within 30 days. I mean, come on, how much "new evidence" did he really find?

44Magnum
05-21-2007, 01:33 PM
Hopefully baseball will do the right thing in this instance and nail Bowden.

BLEEDS
05-21-2007, 02:13 PM
I disagree. I think MLB should give the Reds back Kearns and Lopez,

Has anyone actually taken the time to LOOK AT THE STATS of these two All-Stars?!?!

both are hitting under .250, and Felipe has 5 Errors - at SECOND BASE!!!

I'll take two pithers on the DL versus these two Overpaid Clowns...

PEACE

-BLEEDS