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View Full Version : New Era for the Reds



bluegrassOH
05-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Having been a Reds fan my entire life I have seen some bad years, but this is by far the worst one I have ever witnessed. Not only has the pitching been awful, this year our hitting has not been able to keep us afloat as it did in seasons past. It's time to start over, wipe the slate clean. It's time for the organization to make some moves that may not be the most popular with the fans but best for the team.

The first, and maybe the most devistating move that they need to make(especially for me), is to trade Junior. This legend has been my favorite player ever since he stepped onto a baseball field. But it's time for him to move on. Now especially would be a great time to cut ties. His value is as high as it will ever be right now and he deserves to play for a championship caliber team.

Secondly, Adam Dunn has got to go. This guy is not going to be what the Reds expected him to be. He is big when it doesn't matter and terrible when it does. Granted, he has had his moments, but he is nowhere near the caliber he should be at. At the beginning of spring training he said how he was going to become a better hitter/fielder. I haven't seen one difference in his approach.

Finally, it maybe time to bring up some of our more promising prospects. Homer Bailey has to be a better option than Kirk Sarloos or Kyle Loshe. Joey Votto (sp?) should get a chance to show what he can do. Jay Bruce may still be a little raw he could take over center and we could move Hamilton over to right.

I don't think that I have ever been so mad/upset/disgusted at watching a Reds team, but atleast if they could make some good moves and bring in some young talent, I could live with this type of performance.

BucksandReds
05-27-2007, 05:53 PM
Votto and Bailey will be up this year but Jay Bruce won't and shouldn't. I agree with Jr and Dunn going. The ONLY way you keep them is if you think that we have a chance to WIN the World Series in 08 and I give us a 0.00001% chance to do that so time to find a catcher, some bullpen help and maybe another starting pitcher. Hamilton, Freel, Hopper, Conine some (unless you can actually get something for Conine) and some cheap veteran are my outfield for the rest of the year. By late 08 I bring up Bruce so that by 09 my OF contains Hamilton and Bruce, EE at 3rd, Phillips at 2nd, Votto at 1st and the new C that we get for Griffey or Dunn. We know what we have in Griffey and Dunn and we will not win a WS with them on the team at the rate that they'll earn. Tear it down. I don't care if we don't contend for 80 wins in 08.

RedEye
05-27-2007, 06:20 PM
Having been a Reds fan my entire life I have seen some bad years, but this is by far the worst one I have ever witnessed. Not only has the pitching been awful, this year our hitting has not been able to keep us afloat as it did in seasons past. It's time to start over, wipe the slate clean. It's time for the organization to make some moves that may not be the most popular with the fans but best for the team.

Agree with you there. I feel your pain.


The first, and maybe the most devistating move that they need to make(especially for me), is to trade Junior. This legend has been my favorite player ever since he stepped onto a baseball field. But it's time for him to move on. Now especially would be a great time to cut ties. His value is as high as it will ever be right now and he deserves to play for a championship caliber team.

+1. I also love Junior, but we need to get rid of him while his value is high. IMO, even waiting until the trade deadline (probably the ideal situation) might be risky. He can get injured at any time.


Secondly, Adam Dunn has got to go. This guy is not going to be what the Reds expected him to be. He is big when it doesn't matter and terrible when it does. Granted, he has had his moments, but he is nowhere near the caliber he should be at. At the beginning of spring training he said how he was going to become a better hitter/fielder. I haven't seen one difference in his approach.

Here is where we part ways. The dude has hit 14 HR this year already, and he is signed for a reasonable contract for the next 1 1/2 seasons. He has 212 lifetime HR at age 27. He is a walk machine, scores runs, and drives them in. Just because he is not exactly what we expected doesn't mean he is replaceable. Take him out of this current lineup, and it is absolutely helpless. He's also entering his prime years of 27-30. We also have to remember that this guy still has some room to grow. The only way I trade him is if we are overwhelmed with a package of legitimate prospects in return.


Finally, it maybe time to bring up some of our more promising prospects. Homer Bailey has to be a better option than Kirk Sarloos or Kyle Loshe. Joey Votto (sp?) should get a chance to show what he can do. Jay Bruce may still be a little raw he could take over center and we could move Hamilton over to right.

I'm back with you here mostly. I'd love to wake up tomorrow to the announcement that Stanton and Saarloos are DFA and Bailey and Votto are called up. Neither of them have much more to prove in the minors IMO. They are ready to learn on the job at the major league level.

Bruce, on the other hand, probably needs to play a bit at AA before we can consider bringing him up. Spring Training 2008 would be the earliest I would expect him to challenge for a roster spot on the big club. He's amazing though, so I hope I'm wrong.

I also think we should begin filing through our borderline pitching talent this year. People like Salmon, Coutlangus, Medlock, etc. should be pitching for the Reds. They simply can't be any worse than what we have right now, and this way we'll find out what we've got in the system already rather than making more stupid deals for over-the-hill veterans. The vicious bullpen cycle we're on right now just has to stop. I really hope Wayne has learned his lesson for good and starts trying to build from within. It's just too risky and expensive to try otherwise.


I don't think that I have ever been so mad/upset/disgusted at watching a Reds team, but atleast if they could make some good moves and bring in some young talent, I could live with this type of performance.

Nice post. I think we're pretty much on the same page except for on what to do with Dunn.

reds44
05-27-2007, 08:18 PM
Having been a Reds fan my entire life I have seen some bad years, but this is by far the worst one I have ever witnessed. Not only has the pitching been awful, this year our hitting has not been able to keep us afloat as it did in seasons past. It's time to start over, wipe the slate clean. It's time for the organization to make some moves that may not be the most popular with the fans but best for the team.
I agree that the Reds need to get some young guys up here from AAA. I don't think it's starting over because there are some pieces such as Edwin, Hamilton, Phillips, Harang, Arroyo, but major changes are needed.



The first, and maybe the most devistating move that they need to make(especially for me), is to trade Junior. This legend has been my favorite player ever since he stepped onto a baseball field. But it's time for him to move on. Now especially would be a great time to cut ties. His value is as high as it will ever be right now and he deserves to play for a championship caliber team.

Agreed. I think it's best for Junior and the Reds for him to be traded.



Secondly, Adam Dunn has got to go. This guy is not going to be what the Reds expected him to be. He is big when it doesn't matter and terrible when it does. Granted, he has had his moments, but he is nowhere near the caliber he should be at. At the beginning of spring training he said how he was going to become a better hitter/fielder. I haven't seen one difference in his approach.
Well, I think Dunn is a much improved fielder from last year. He also batted .247 and .234 in 05 and 06, so his .261 batting average is an improvement from his last 2 seasons. He is also slugging a really good .563. He has shown improvement

However, I don't disagree that he could/should be traded. He's the Reds best value player, and will net the most in return. I don't see him being in the Reds plan past 08, so if we can get something good I would deal him. However, if you trade Griffey and Dunn you need to get a ML ready OFer in return for one of them to go along with some pitching prospects.


Finally, it maybe time to bring up some of our more promising prospects. Homer Bailey has to be a better option than Kirk Sarloos or Kyle Loshe. Joey Votto (sp?) should get a chance to show what he can do. Jay Bruce may still be a little raw he could take over center and we could move Hamilton over to right.

I agree that Votto and Homer among others (McBeth) should be up here, however if Bruce isn't going to see the majors this year. He's simply not ready. He's never played above high A ball before. He'll be in AA before years end, making a 2008 debut a realistic possibilty.



I don't think that I have ever been so mad/upset/disgusted at watching a Reds team, but atleast if they could make some good moves and bring in some young talent, I could live with this type of performance.
Agreed. Get some talented guys up here and let them learn.

coachw513
05-27-2007, 11:41 PM
Maybe it's just my hope, but I think Griffey stays right where he's at unless he asks to be traded and quite frankly, I don't think he will...with every loss comes the reality that folks are going to come to the park every night simply to see certain players...Griffey's climb to 600 homers not only is compelling but financially rewarding to the franchise during a lost season...

It HAS to be a point of debate as summer begins to wear on and if the Reds continue to flounder: Do we bring up Bailey and Votto to bring fans to the park (especially in regards to Bailey) and secondly, do we fire Narron to tell our fan base it's okay to keep on shelling out $$ because "we're doing something about this"...

Despite my desires otherwise, all tangible signs are pointing to a lost season...thus, this season should be therefore about player development, trading off parts that might be useful to contenders while continuing to stockpile young talent...

IF this July becomes a sellers market, trade Dunn then...but I'm more inclined to believe he fetches a better price in the offseason because Dunn will once again put up excellent numbers that carry much more weight on paper than they do on their residue effect to THIS team (have said it before, will say it again- he's outstanding, but worth more to the Reds rebuilding effort as a trade chip than as a building block, IMHO)...it's not Dunn's fault we are many pieces away to really contend, but the reality of his impending salary escalation while not being able to fill other team deficiencies begins to smell of "griffey-like salary burdens"

Topcat
05-28-2007, 12:00 AM
It has become just sad honestly. I go to the box scores already knowing and look to see what did them in on the night. To have so little faith at all is new territory for me as a Red's fan. I want some excitemenrt and to provide that now the team must go young. Lie to me seduce me just give me a reason to see hope. Because at this moment I just hurt and Can't find the words to feel some hope.

sonny
05-28-2007, 12:09 AM
Mathmatically, we are not out of it yet! Until then, I hope, for it is all I have.
:)

bluegrassOH
05-28-2007, 10:50 AM
I know that Dunn is probably our best player and that he is starting in the prime of his career. I also agree that Phillips, Hamilton, Eddie, Arroyo, and Harang are a good nucleus of players to start around. But as of this moment, Dunn is the only person on our major league team beside Junior that has any sort of trade value.

durl
05-28-2007, 12:08 PM
Ugh. As much as I hate to say it, I can see Griffey wanting out of Cincinnati. He's at the end of his career and I can't imagine him wanting to go out playing for the worst team in baseball.

I don't want to see him go...I'd like for him to retire a Red, plus we need his offense...but I can understand if he wants to leave and I'd wish him well.