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WMR
05-30-2007, 06:06 PM
Hopper 8
Gonzalez 6
Griffey 9
Conine 3
Dunn 7
Encarnacion 5
Castro 4
Ross 2
Harang 1

This is may be the worst line-up yet this season from Narron. Hopper, Gonzo, and Conine all getting more ABs than Dunn and Ede. Castro starting.

:barf: :barf: :barf:

RedEye
05-30-2007, 06:12 PM
It's official: they're playing for draft position in 2008.

WMR
05-30-2007, 06:17 PM
Narron wasn't lying when he talked about picking names out of a hat to construct his line-ups/batting orders.

eastkyred
05-30-2007, 06:17 PM
why does he insist on giving castro a start every 3 or 4 games? 33% of the batters tonight are Castro, Ross, Harang, Everett, Ausmus, and Wandy. Should be exciting!

WMR
05-30-2007, 06:19 PM
why does he insist on giving castro a start every 3 or 4 games? 33% of the batters tonight are Castro, Ross, Harang, Everett, Ausmus, and Wandy. Should be exciting!

You don't sign a player like Juan Castro to an extension and then not play him.

Think about that.

RedsFanInMD
05-30-2007, 06:25 PM
It shows what a drop-off there is without Phillips in the lineup. Harang is going to have to pitch a shutout tonight...

OesterPoster
05-30-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm way beyond even questioning Narron's lineups any longer. It's become second nature to me when I look at the lineup and give a "bleh" response.

WMR
05-30-2007, 06:29 PM
The drop-off wouldn't be so severe if the ballplayer detritus Juan Castro wasn't occupying a spot on our 25 man. Hell, off the top of my head, I'd take Keppinger over Castro in a heartbeat.

jimbo
05-30-2007, 06:30 PM
Not my favorite lineup either, but I don't think it's that bad considering what Narron has to work with. I don't like Castro starting anymore than anyone else does, but I think Phillips has had only one day off all season so he needs one. With him not at the top of the lineup, Gonzo isn't ideal but he is 11 for 29 this past week so he is getting on base and scoring runs so, it makes sense for this one game IMO.

Dunn batting 5th is another argument that has been hashed and rehashed so I won't even comment on that.

James B.
05-30-2007, 06:33 PM
Did anyone else notice the team the reds had on the field in the 9th inning? They almost had to go extra innings with Wise, Castro, Hopper, and Moeller all in the lineup. That would have been ugly.

WMR
05-30-2007, 06:34 PM
Who would you rather have coming up in the ninth inning down a run, Gonzalez and Conine or Dunn and EE?

This line-up is indefensible, IMO.

jimbo
05-30-2007, 06:42 PM
Who would you rather have coming up in the ninth inning down a run, Gonzalez and Conine or Dunn and EE?

This line-up is indefensible, IMO.

By the 9th inning the order of the lineup is much less meaningless. Who's to say that spot wouldn't come down to the 5th or 6th hitter in your scenario? Besides, I wouldn't like EE in the two hole in any situation and like I said I am not going to comment on Dunn's batting 5th because that's been beat to death already. He puts Conine in between Dunn and Junior to break up the lefties. You may not like it, but that's the reasoning behind it and many managers do just the same.

For some, no lineup that Narron puts out there will be defensible. I don't like them all of the time either, but I just try to find the reasoning behind them when they do come out as opposed to automatically bashing them, and sometimes after doing so they make a little more sense.

WMR
05-30-2007, 06:45 PM
The ninth inning question was just a hypothetical. The point is, you're giving more ABs over the course of a game to Hopper, Gonzo, and Conine than you are to Dunn and EE. That's just wrong. Your guys who have the greatest opportunity to avoid making outs and get on base should be given the maximum opportunity to do so.

Degenerate39
05-30-2007, 06:45 PM
How soon till we get to see Dunn batting leadoff?

WMR
05-30-2007, 06:47 PM
How soon till we get to see Dunn batting leadoff?

Bob Boone is that you?

jimbo
05-30-2007, 06:54 PM
The ninth inning question was just a hypothetical. The point is, you're giving more ABs over the course of a game to Hopper, Gonzo, and Conine than you are to Dunn and EE. That's just wrong. Your guys who have the greatest opportunity to avoid making outs and get on base should be given the maximum opportunity to do so.

I know what you are saying and I agree to an extent. First of all though, this team has no true lead-off hitter or anyone that closely resembles one. I'm not sure who else in that lineup who would be a better fit than Hopper, and I use the term "fit" loosely.

Gonzo has some good numbers at the plate this past week, so I have no problem with him getting more at-bats. Ride him while he's hot. And again, he's only there because Phillips and Hatteberg are not in the lineup.

And I do think that EE and Conine should be switched. No doubt about that, IMO. Like I said, I don't entirely disagree with what you are saying, just trying to find some reasoning behind it.

captainmorgan07
05-30-2007, 07:11 PM
i'd change ee and conine but anytime castro's in the lineup he's a hole so there's nottin u can do with him

thorn
05-30-2007, 07:27 PM
The only problem I have with Narron is he plays the lefty right matchup too much and I think it hurts the team. The only evidence I have of that is how bad we are currently against lefties. Put Dunn, Griffey, EdE and Phillips 2-5 daily, Hatt/Conine 6th, Gonzo 7th, Ross 8th. If you have to have Castro give Phillips a day off, fine, slide everyone up 1 slot and hit him 8th, or 9th. :) Freel can hit 1st and Hopper can give him a break every now and then. Even when healthy, we don't have a lot of options for lead off.

redsfanfalcon
05-30-2007, 07:37 PM
Are they drug testing the managers too?

adampad
05-30-2007, 09:17 PM
Who would you rather have coming up in the ninth inning down a run, Gonzalez and Conine or Dunn and EE?

This line-up is indefensible, IMO.

Hmmm. Kinda of a tough question in my opinion. The guys batting .280 and .270 vs. the guy batting .260 and the guy batting .230.

captainmorgan07
05-30-2007, 09:18 PM
we should have more of these threads 3-0 reds in the first inning

WMR
05-30-2007, 09:22 PM
we should have more of these threads 3-0 reds in the first inning

Blind. Hog. Acorn. ;)

captainmorgan07
05-30-2007, 09:27 PM
Blind. Hog. Acorn. ;)

your prolly right:laugh:

rotnoid
05-30-2007, 09:53 PM
You don't sign a player like Juan Castro to an extension and then not play him.

Think about that.

According to Trent's blog, Phillips has only had one off day all year, so he's probably due. Unfortunately, with Freel out, the infield situation is a little short.

It all goes back to one of the biggest arguments in spring training. This bench is terribly constructed. We all knew that if there were any injuries, we'd be in a world of hurt. Here we are.

WMR
05-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Yep, agreed 100% Rotnoid.

That's the problem in signing a Juan Castro. Sooner or later you're going to have to play him, and, what's even more unfortunate, this regime seems to think finding him as many ABs as possible is a GOOD thing! :bang:

Degenerate39
05-30-2007, 10:35 PM
Bob Boone is that you?

Just commenting on Narron's crazy lineups.

WMR
05-30-2007, 10:38 PM
Just commenting on Narron's crazy lineups.

I was just joking with you, b/c, IIRC, Boone actually *did* bat Dunn lead-off during his tenure helming the Reds.

reds44
05-30-2007, 10:46 PM
Norris Hopper is 3-3 with a walk and 2 doubles.
He's got 6 hits, and been on base 7 times in this series already.

That boy can fly too.

jimbo
05-30-2007, 10:46 PM
Hopper and Gonzo getting it done tonight at the top of the order. A combined 6 for 7, 2 RBIs, and 3 runs scored.

captainmorgan07
05-30-2007, 10:46 PM
hopper and gonzo playing very well tonite

HokieRed
05-30-2007, 10:48 PM
Right now getting as many at-bats to Hopper as possible seems a good strategy.

WMR
05-30-2007, 11:04 PM
Just to be clear: I'm as glad as anybody that it worked out for the Reds and Hopper tonight.

That does not, however, change my sentiments about the reasoning--or logical lack thereof--behind Narron's decisions.

DTCromer
05-30-2007, 11:07 PM
How soon 'til we see people stop complaining about his lineups?

HumnHilghtFreel
05-30-2007, 11:20 PM
How soon 'til we see people stop complaining about his lineups?

More than likely when Narron starts to consistently send out a lineup that gives the team the best chance of winning. Even though they scored some tonight, this was not that type of lineup.

jimbo
05-30-2007, 11:43 PM
More than likely when Narron starts to consistently send out a lineup that gives the team the best chance of winning. Even though they scored some tonight, this was not that type of lineup.

Huh? Didn't the Reds just win? :rolleyes:

It usually never fails when someone comes on here and says things like this is the worst lineup that Narron has ever put out, the Reds score runs and wins.

WMR
05-30-2007, 11:49 PM
Huh? Didn't the Reds just win? :rolleyes:

It usually never fails when someone comes on here and says things like this is the worst lineup that Narron has ever put out, the Reds score runs and wins.

Hehe, Jimbo, the difference between a random event and causation.

This was not the optimal line-up, yet the Reds still won.

I'm glad they won. The unfortunate thing is that wins such as this reinforce Narron's worst tendencies which will cost the Reds victories down the road.

HumnHilghtFreel
05-30-2007, 11:52 PM
Huh? Didn't the Reds just win? :rolleyes:

It usually never fails when someone comes on here and says things like this is the worst lineup that Narron has ever put out, the Reds score runs and wins.

I guess you disregarded the back end of my post. Or maybe I wasn't clear with what I was trying to say.

Yes, they scored 4 runs and got the win. But is that lineup going to get the same result 9 times out of 10?

HokieRed
05-31-2007, 12:10 AM
4 through 9 went 1 for 23 tonight. That won't win often. Thank God for Norris Hopper.

NorrisHopper30
05-31-2007, 12:25 AM
Thank God for Norris Hopper.

I agree

jimbo
05-31-2007, 12:37 AM
Yes, they scored 4 runs and got the win. But is that lineup going to get the same result 9 times out of 10?

It wasn't a pretty lineup because Phillips was given the day off and both Freel and Hamilton is out. I don't think you could make a pretty lineup out of that mix of players no matter how you put them in order. The facts though are in the results and the Reds won no matter how it's spun.

The main argument was that Hopper and Gonzo should not be getting more at-bats then Dunn and EE. Facts are that Hopper and Gonzo hit for a combined 6 for 9 with 2 RBIs and 3 runs scored. EE and Dunn went a combined 1 for 8 with 1 RBI and 0 runs scored. You can't dispute the results.

WMR
05-31-2007, 12:40 AM
Trot that same line-up out for 162 games versus another one with EdE and Dunn batting in front of those players.

Which would you pick to create the greatest number of runs?

As Austin Kearns said: "Every team wins a bunch of games every season. Even players like Norris Hopper will have the occassional big night."

The smart move, the correct move, is to formulate your line-up--AND LEAVE IT THAT WAY--based on the back of a player's baseball card, not on a hunch, numbers drawn out of a hat, random streaks which will come and go etc. etc. etc.

jimbo
05-31-2007, 12:46 AM
Trot that same line-up out for 162 games versus another one with EdE and Dunn batting in front of those players.

Which would you pick to create the greatest number of runs?


I don't disagree with that, obviously EE and Dunn. But as I mentioned before the game even started, considering that Phillips was given the day off and that Gonzo has been hitting the ball pretty good this past week, for this one night it wasn't as bad as most here portrayed it as and the results showed that.

If the same exact lineup is thrown out there tomorrow, then I'll be right there with you in the criticism.

WMR
05-31-2007, 12:54 AM
Yep, I'm cool with that, Jimbo, which brings me back to my previous assertion concerning the absolute insanity of havin Juan Castro on this roster.

But, then again, that appears to be par for the course with Krivsky and Narron, unfortunately. :(

jimbo
05-31-2007, 01:24 AM
Yep, I'm cool with that, Jimbo, which brings me back to my previous assertion concerning the absolute insanity of havin Juan Castro on this roster.


I can't argue with that.

WMR
05-31-2007, 01:25 AM
I can't argue with that.

Now if I could just convince you about Wily Mo Pena!! :D :laugh: ;)

jimbo
05-31-2007, 01:49 AM
Now if I could just convince you about Wily Mo Pena!! :D :laugh: ;)

Buy me enough beers and you might be able to convince for a few hours. :drink:

WMR
05-31-2007, 01:55 AM
Buy me enough beers and you might be able to convince for a few hours. :drink:

Hahahahaha, I've been told that the best way to appreciate the nuances of Wily Mo's defense is after consuming at least a twelve pack of your favorite alcoholic beverage. :laugh:

WVPacman
05-31-2007, 02:00 AM
WilyMo,Im sure you could convince Jimbo if you would hand over some green from your hands to his.:laugh:

How much you asking for Jimbo!!:evil:

jimbo
05-31-2007, 03:21 AM
WilyMo,Im sure you could convince Jimbo if you would hand over some green from your hands to his.:laugh:

How much you asking for Jimbo!!:evil:

Oh, I'm pretty cheap. :D