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View Full Version : How valuable is Norris Hopper?



fearofpopvol1
05-30-2007, 10:52 PM
I mean, seriously. The guy is tearing it up and making the most of his opportunity. He's great defensively and has good speed. Not a lot of power, but a good hitter. Is he legitimate trade bait?

What should the Reds do with him? It just seems like he's more than a 4th outfielder.

RedEye
05-30-2007, 10:57 PM
I mean, seriously. The guy is tearing it up and making the most of his opportunity. He's great defensively and has good speed. Not a lot of power, but a good hitter. Is he legitimate trade bait?

What should the Reds do with him? It just seems like he's more than a 4th outfielder.

It won't seem like it much longer. Small sample size can make anyone look good. Don't get me wrong, I like Norris... but I think his upside--and this is the best-possible scenario--is Herm Winningham.

captainmorgan07
05-30-2007, 11:05 PM
we shall see he hit at the end of the year last year when he was up and he has down a very serivceable job when josh comes back freel should go back to his super sub role throughout the team have norris as the 4th outfielder and get castro the heck off this team

pahster
05-30-2007, 11:21 PM
Hopper has a career minor league line of .290/.345/.337/.682. He's likely not even a legitimate 4th outfielder. Might as well ride him while he's hot, though.

reds44
05-30-2007, 11:28 PM
Hopper has a career minor league line of .290/.345/.337/.682. He's likely not even a legitimate 4th outfielder. Might as well ride him while he's hot, though.
He's not somebody I pay much attention to his slugging percentage or OPS. His batting average and OBP is more important to me. He's at best a 4th or 5th outfielder though, but he's doing well filling in for Freel.

He is awful in CF though. He doesn't get good jumps on the ball, and has a terrible arm. He looks to be much more of a LFer then CFer.

Looking at his minor league numbers, he has played 2B, SS, LF, CF, RF in his carrer. To me, he seems better suited for LF and 2B.

He makes consistent contact, can run like a deer, and has been a great pinch hitter though.

NorrisHopper30
05-30-2007, 11:32 PM
Anyone know if Freel or Hopper is faster?

reds44
05-30-2007, 11:33 PM
Anyone know if Freel or Hopper is faster?
At this stage in the careers, it's Hopper hands down. Freel is nowhere near as fast as Norris is.

WVPacman
05-31-2007, 01:34 AM
If Norris,keeps hitting like he is now then I would put him in the leadoff spot and bat freel 2nd.That would put Narron having to sit somebody down maybe Conine or Hatti but I think they should bat first and second b/c they could cause some havic for the oppising team.

Razor Shines
05-31-2007, 02:26 AM
If Norris,keeps hitting like he is now then I would put him in the leadoff spot and bat freel 2nd.That would put Narron having to sit somebody down maybe Conine or Hatti but I think they should bat first and second b/c they could cause some havic for the oppising team.

Over the last ten games he's hit .355 and had an OBP of .375, so yeah if by some miracle he could keep that up I'd have no problem with him hitting lead off and Freel coming off the bench (I don't think I'd want to see a lineup with both Freel and Hopper starting regularly). But the chances that Hopper produces anywhere near those numbers are not very good. I have no problem riding him while he's hot though.

TheWalls
05-31-2007, 11:36 AM
Two basic ideas: competition is ALWAYS good and so is a spark in the leadoff spot.

RedlegNation
05-31-2007, 11:41 AM
What should the Reds do with him? It just seems like he's more than a 4th outfielder.

He's less than a 4th OF in my opinion. Hopper is a 5th outfielder, nothing more and nothing less. He's playing well in a limited sample size here, but even Juan Castro has had a good two-week stretch before.

On a good team, Hopper is a 5th outfielder, and he's a capable player in that role. He only gets any amount of playing time on a team as bad as the Reds.

I'm not putting Hopper down; he is what he is, and he's a nice player to have on the roster in the 5th OF role. If he's counted on for more than that, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the end.

...and this isn't directed at any of you, but to suggest that Adam Dunn should be traded to make room for Hopper, as a local radio host did (http://redlegnation.com/2007/05/31/hopper-for-dunn/)...well, that's insanity.

RichRed
05-31-2007, 01:32 PM
...and this isn't directed at any of you, but to suggest that Adam Dunn should be traded to make room for Hopper, as a local radio host did (http://redlegnation.com/2007/05/31/hopper-for-dunn/)...well, that's insanity.

:eek:

I thought I'd seen it all. Deal Dunn to make room for Hopper. I'm speechless. I am without speech.

jimbo
05-31-2007, 02:19 PM
...and this isn't directed at any of you, but to suggest that Adam Dunn should be traded to make room for Hopper, as a local radio host did (http://redlegnation.com/2007/05/31/hopper-for-dunn/)...well, that's insanity.

I heard this last night after the game also and was just dumbfounded. You expect those kinds of comments from callers but not from a host who supposedly has some baseball smarts.

To top it off, I heard the next caller say that "Dunn is the worst major league player he's ever seen." I just couldn't listen to anymore after that. :help:

Mario-Rijo
05-31-2007, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by RedlegNation
He's less than a 4th OF in my opinion. Hopper is a 5th outfielder, nothing more and nothing less. He's playing well in a limited sample size here, but even Juan Castro has had a good two-week stretch before.

On a good team, Hopper is a 5th outfielder, and he's a capable player in that role. He only gets any amount of playing time on a team as bad as the Reds.

I'm not putting Hopper down; he is what he is, and he's a nice player to have on the roster in the 5th OF role. If he's counted on for more than that, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the end.


Look I am not looking for an argument here, but I do wonder why you have that opinion of him. Don't get me wrong I don't necc. have a scouts eye but I do wonder why you or anyone else feels that he is nothing more than a 5th OF. Why couldn't he be say an average starting 2B in the bigs?

I'm not necc. disagreeing with the fact that he may only be a 5th OF/utility/ph type. But what insight do you have that gives you that impression?

The reason I ask is because I sometimes get the impression that a lot of people that post on these type of boards rely heavily on what they have learned on such boards. I am not making that statement about you, you may very well be a major league scout for all I know and if so I would like to know, because we must be looking at 2 different guys right now.

I see a guy that has better than average bat control, average to above bat speed, a decent eye (not a great eye) at the plate and seems to love the game. He has a reputation (at least that's what I have read) for not taking alot of walks, but why does that singular thing always seem to be the indicator for success. Tony Gwynn NEVER had more than 82 BB's in a season and he averaged about 50 per season, and has a career OBP of .388 with no wheels whatsoever.

Hopper seems determined and yet still plays within himself to an extent. Sure he has gotten a bit over-zealous at times but what rookie doesn't? His fielding needs some work sure but as was stated above he can fix getting a better jump on the ball with experience. And as far as his arm goes it looks like Vlads compared to Johnny Damon's (that guy throws like a girl) yet he continues to troll CF for a major league team. And his baserunning at lower levels has been very good and he has an excellent basestealing coach in Hatcher so that's bound to improve. He was an 8th round pick, that's not too shabby so he must have some degree of raw talent.

Look all I'm saying is give the kid a chance to show us he cannot be anything more than a 5th OF. Sure Tony Gwynn is likely a bad comparison he had an innate ability to hit 'em where they ain't, and from a young age which Hopper doesn't have on his side (28 yr. old). And 28 yr old rookies don't usually become superstars but they sometimes do become productive major leaguers once they carve out a niche and sometimes that niche is as a starter.

PTI (pti)
05-31-2007, 08:33 PM
His market value is somewhere between Todd Coffey and Jose Rijo, if he were to again come out of retirement. He may be playing great right now, but he's widely considered a very marginal "prospect."

His short-term success reminds me of Chris Stynes....


1997 = .348 ba / 49 games / 6 home runs / 31 runs / 28 rbi / .394 on-base %

2000 = .334 ba / 119 games / 12 home runs / 71 runs / 40 rbi / .386 on-base%



I guess it's *possible* that he keeps playing out of his you-know-what......but I highly doubt it.

boognish
05-31-2007, 08:44 PM
I had the displeasure of listening to Daugherty on the way home and he opined that Hopper and Freel should be manning the outfield corners (Hamilton in center) and that the Reds should deal Griffey and Dunn citing their "lack of enthusiasm." This gem leads me to think...what would the level of fury be if Dunn and Griffey are dealt and the Reds did not receive a major league ready corner OF?

He at least said Hopper must take more walks to stay in the leadoff spot, so the segment was not entirely devoid of sanity.

I agree with the general sentiment that Hopper is at best a 25th man on the roster to bring speed off the bench, and though he is a converted IF and could improve, what I have seen of his glove (poor judgment of depth on flies, inaccurate, weak arm) has led me to believe he cannot meaningfully contribute at the major league level. Outfielders with no power who play a poor CF generally don't have long major league lives.

M-R, there are many differences between Hopper and Gwynn, but one overlooked facet was Gwynn's plus defense and rocket arm, before he got very large around the waist, anyway.

fearofpopvol1
05-31-2007, 09:55 PM
I agree with the general sentiment that Hopper is at best a 25th man on the roster to bring speed off the bench, and though he is a converted IF and could improve, what I have seen of his glove (poor judgment of depth on flies, inaccurate, weak arm) has led me to believe he cannot meaningfully contribute at the major league level.

The scouting report on Hopper said he has a plus arm. Not sure how that translates to a "weak arm." His jumps on the ball could be better, but they are not that bad. Leaps and bounds above Freel's jumps.

boognish
05-31-2007, 10:26 PM
The scouting report on Hopper said he has a plus arm. Not sure how that translates to a "weak arm." His jumps on the ball could be better, but they are not that bad. Leaps and bounds above Freel's jumps.

The throw he made to third tonight had nice distance but a bit of a hump in the middle (over the cutoff man). It was notably better than when I watched him since he's been up and his short stint last season. Please link a scouting report; BBAmerica Prospect Handbook rates Hopper's arm as "average." I am always willing to learn more, particularly about Reds prospects. I will happily admit I may have jumped to conclusions based on a small sample.

Freel's routes to the ball are rotten, I agree.

fearofpopvol1
05-31-2007, 10:36 PM
The throw he made to third tonight had nice distance but a bit of a hump in the middle (over the cutoff man). It was notably better than when I watched him since he's been up and his short stint last season. Please link a scouting report; BBAmerica Prospect Handbook rates Hopper's arm as "average." I am always willing to learn more, particularly about Reds prospects. I will happily admit I may have jumped to conclusions based on a small sample.

Freel's routes to the ball are rotten, I agree.

I don't have an actual link to a scouting report, but on extra innings, they are showing the Houston broadcast and the commentators said they were looking at the scouting report before the game and noticed that it had him listed with a "plus arm." Not sure what report he pulled from, but I assume whatever they had access to was a good source.

boognish
05-31-2007, 10:38 PM
Cool. Looking at my message it sounds a bit snarky. I did not mean to condescend at all...thanks for the info!

Xavier Redleg
05-31-2007, 10:51 PM
IMO, Norris needs to lose a little weight. He seems a little pudgy, which would be okay for a slugger, but Norris is a player that relies on his speed. If he did lose some weight, I think he would be much more valuble as a defensive replacement and/or pinch runner.

pahster
06-01-2007, 12:11 AM
Look I am not looking for an argument here, but I do wonder why you have that opinion of him. Don't get me wrong I don't necc. have a scouts eye but I do wonder why you or anyone else feels that he is nothing more than a 5th OF. Why couldn't he be say an average starting 2B in the bigs?

I don't want to speak for Redlegnation, but for me, it's simple; his minor league line of .290/.345/.337/.682. That's not just bad, it's awful. Hopper is an outfielder, and outfielders have to hit. Hopper doesn't have any power and doesn't really get on base at an exceptional rate. Hopper is filler material at best, although I'm all for riding him while he's hot.

WVPacman
06-01-2007, 12:26 AM
A little story about Hopper on cincinnatipost.com


HOP ON TOP: Norris Hopper is an ideal leadoff guy in that he doesn't strike out much. He can run and he's an excellent bunter.

He's not an ideal leadoff guy in that his batting average was exactly the same as his on-base percentage going into Wednesday's game: .286, meaning no walks in 49 at-bats.

"Hop's done a good job for us," Jerry Narron said. "He puts the ball in play. But he doesn't get the bases on balls you'd like to see from a speed guy."

Hopper did that in his call-up last year. He hit .359 in 39 at-bats. Six walks pushed his on-base percentage to .435.

Hopper will be counted on as the leadoff guy until Ryan Freel returns, unless he struggles.

That hasn't been the case. Hopper followed Tuesday night's three-hit game with a pair of doubles, a single and a walk in his first four at-bats Wednesday.

bucksfan2
06-01-2007, 09:53 AM
I think Hopper could be a valuable asset to this club. I am higher on him than most and think he could be a good 3rd/4th type outfielder. One at bat impressed me the most last night. He had a two strike count and Williams threw up a strike that Hopper was obviously fooled on. Instead of trying to hit the ball fair with a bad swing Hopper just flicked his bat at the ball and fouled it off. There is not another player on the reds who can/would do that. This team has too many strikeout hitters that they need a guy who is going to make contact. His defense doesn't look the best but he probably isn't a CF but I would like to see him in the lineup more over Freel.