PDA

View Full Version : germano and mosley



redsupport
06-03-2007, 09:03 PM
I guess not good enough for this illustrious, Reds staff. Where wopuld they be on the depth chart, probably behind Majewski, Stanton and Cormier

boognish
06-03-2007, 09:08 PM
Don't know much about Moseley (though Anaheim is a pitcher's park), but I have the feeling Germano would look a lot like those guys with the Reds since he doesn't miss the bat at all.

That said, the Reds could really use a swingman like Germano and he should never have been traded for the now-retired Cormier.

redsfanmia
06-03-2007, 09:15 PM
Hindsite is 20/20. The Reds shouldnt have left Trevor Hoffman unprotected in the expansion draft, he would look pretty good a the end of the bullpen about now.

boognish
06-03-2007, 09:16 PM
Hindsite is 20/20. The Reds shouldnt have left Trevor Hoffman unprotected in the expansion draft, he would look pretty good a the end of the bullpen about now.

...and about the past 1.5 decades ;)

HokieRed
06-03-2007, 09:21 PM
Not only hindsight but also foresight is sometimes 20/20. There were a lot of people who didn't think it made much sense to protect Tim Pugh at the expense of Trevor Hoffman. Also, I watched Germano pitch on TV last night. Everything he throws moves and last night he certainly had command. He threw a couple of sinkers at 87 that were unhittable. We'll see how he develops as a starter. To say that he could not have been introduced last year into the bullpen at least as effectively as anybody we've found since just won't stand up. Krivsky's evaluation of talent looks worse every day.

redsupport
06-03-2007, 09:54 PM
but guys keep defending krivsky, what is the excuse for trading germano, he had one start with reds and pitched better than Milton

nw_ohio_fan
06-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Krivsky's evaluation of talent looks worse every day.

It does. I will admit last year I thought he knew what he was doing with getting Bronson and Brandon Phillips. Then he does the stupid deal with Washington. Then goes hog wild for bullpen. We don't have anything really to show from last year.

Krivsky has to be the talk on the GM circle. They all know he can be taken.

Mutaman
06-03-2007, 11:45 PM
Does anybody know the last decent pitcher produced by the Reds organization? Was it Scott Williamson ( who I consider a decent pitcher who was ruined by Trader Jack.) How many pitchers has the organization produced besides Him and Hoffman? Granted Narron is no Sparky, and I'm staring to bail on Wayne, but I think the real problem with this team is that their minor leagues can't produce one kid who can come up here and get a few people out. Isn't that the real problem with the Cincinnati Reds and hasn't that been the real problem for the past decade or so?

HokieRed
06-04-2007, 12:15 AM
Agreed, which is why--for all his blunders--I like Dan O'Brien. Bailey, Fisher, Wood, Cueto, Gonzalez, Germano, Stevens, Ward. That's the best group of quality arms we've had in the minor leagues in a long time.

ChatterRed
06-04-2007, 12:17 AM
They had John Wetteland in their hands and let him get away too.

redsupport
06-04-2007, 02:18 AM
hey they developed curt lyons who was undefeated as well as the great kevin jarvis

Topcat
06-04-2007, 02:52 AM
I guess not good enough for this illustrious, Reds staff. Where wopuld they be on the depth chart, probably behind Majewski, Stanton and Cormier


Ah revisionary history................. makes a person look like a genius doesn't it?

camisadelgolf
06-04-2007, 07:56 AM
Krivsky traded a guy who everyone said had a ceiling of, at best, back-of-the-rotation starter for a guy who led the league in relief ERA. At the time, I wasn't crazy about the deal, but I don't think anyone looked at it and thought it was a ridiculous deal, which is how some people seem to interpret it now. As it's been said, hindsight is 20/20.

With that said, Germano is no longer pitching at GABP and is now pitching in San Diego--I think that makes a huge difference. That's also not to mention that there is a very small sample size. Don't get me wrong--the Reds got the worse end of the deal. But it's not nearly as bad as it looks on paper right now.

HokieRed
06-04-2007, 11:38 AM
Why is there so much excuse-making for Krivsky? It's not as if the Germano deal is the only time he's missed. He's been trying for a solid year to improve the bullpen and it has only gotten worse.

redsfanfalcon
06-04-2007, 11:47 AM
Does anybody know the last decent pitcher produced by the Reds organization? Was it Scott Williamson ( who I consider a decent pitcher who was ruined by Trader Jack.) How many pitchers has the organization produced besides Him and Hoffman? Granted Narron is no Sparky, and I'm staring to bail on Wayne, but I think the real problem with this team is that their minor leagues can't produce one kid who can come up here and get a few people out. Isn't that the real problem with the Cincinnati Reds and hasn't that been the real problem for the past decade or so?

And one Tom Browning!

bigredbunter
06-04-2007, 12:38 PM
And one Tom Browning!

and B.J. Ryan

redsupport
06-04-2007, 12:38 PM
the last decent pitcher produced by the organization was Joaquin Andujar

klw
06-04-2007, 02:12 PM
And lets see the Reds traded Germano to San Diego. Oh no that's right he was sent to Philadelphia for a veteran reliever who didn't pan out but the Reds needed bullpen help and were trying to stay in. What did the Phillies do with the guy? They waived him in the offseason. If you want to slam the Reds, don't do it for the trade but for not claiming him on waivers this march when he was available. I doubt the GM's of baseball, most of whom also passed on Germano, are laughing at Krivsky for skipping on him. Oh and here is the 3 post thread from when Germano got picked up by San Diego http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55609&highlight=germano

redsupport
06-04-2007, 02:15 PM
no they are too busy laughing at him for more egregious errors

Blitz Dorsey
06-04-2007, 03:59 PM
the last decent pitcher produced by the organization was Joaquin Andujar

You mean Mario Soto?

redsupport
06-04-2007, 05:06 PM
I mean Ken Hunt

Mutaman
06-04-2007, 09:24 PM
And there's Wayne Simpson. Bench said he was the best pitcher he ever caught before he got hurt. That was only 35 years ago. You would think just by the law of averages they would have come up with somebody. And the sad thing is, outside of Dunn and Kearns the organization hasn't produced too many nonpitchers recently either. Who's been responsible for that?

redsupport
06-05-2007, 03:02 AM
here are five great ones
Mike LaCoss
Bruce berenyi
Frank Pastore
Charlie Liebrandt
Milt Wilcox and Ross Grimsley

UK Reds Fan
06-05-2007, 09:59 AM
Bottomline...Germano was sent for Cormier who was nothing but terrible for the Reds. Now, Germano isn't an ace in the future probably, but he could have easily served the role that Sarloos is serving at league minimum, when Krivs. paid Cormier 2.5 mil and Sarloos 1.25 mil this year. That is 3.5 mill thrown in the garbage when we could have had the same or better option in Germano for league minimum, not to mention Shafer could be another option for an already horrid Reds BP.

When you think of this along with Castro (1M)...who could have been easily replaced with Brendan Harris,

Stanton (2.3M)...Coutlangas or Shackelford has done LOOGY before,

Conine (2.5M)....Tons of other options for RH bench player..

Those add up to 10M that could have been used in other areas. Krivsky hasn't blown the wad on a Milton ala O'Brien, but he has wasted tons of small change extractions that weren't at all necessary.

bucksfan2
06-05-2007, 11:48 AM
Bottomline...Germano was sent for Cormier who was nothing but terrible for the Reds. Now, Germano isn't an ace in the future probably, but he could have easily served the role that Sarloos is serving at league minimum, when Krivs. paid Cormier 2.5 mil and Sarloos 1.25 mil this year. That is 3.5 mill thrown in the garbage when we could have had the same or better option in Germano for league minimum, not to mention Shafer could be another option for an already horrid Reds BP.

When you think of this along with Castro (1M)...who could have been easily replaced with Brendan Harris,

Stanton (2.3M)...Coutlangas or Shackelford has done LOOGY before,

Conine (2.5M)....Tons of other options for RH bench player..

Those add up to 10M that could have been used in other areas. Krivsky hasn't blown the wad on a Milton ala O'Brien, but he has wasted tons of small change extractions that weren't at all necessary.

Germano was sent to Philly for Frenchie when Frenchie had the best reliever ERA in the NL. Germano was then released by the Phills so I do not fault Krivsky for that deal. Frenchie was horriable with the reds but he was worth the risk.

Castro is expendable but he is a solid late inning defensive replacement who is the type of player Krivsky likes so I have no problem with him on the team.

Stanton has been useless so far but if you remember Weathers had a rough start to his reds career. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=weathda01&t=p&year=2005

Conine I didn't like the deal but he has been a pretty good pickup and isn't just a right handed bat off the bench.

Have some of the deals Krivsky made backfired, sure, every GM takes a risk when they are making a trade. I still think Krivsky needs time to let him form the ballclub that he wants.

HokieRed
06-05-2007, 02:33 PM
How is it a defense of Krivsky that the Phillies made the same mistake regarding Germano?

klw
06-05-2007, 03:36 PM
How is it a defense of Krivsky that the Phillies made the same mistake regarding Germano?
It is a way to say don't criticize the trade. Germano became available again after the trade. This March the Reds could have picked Germano back up off of waivers but chose not to. That decision is a better one to place blame as the Reds could have had him for the mere price of a wiaver fee and chose not to take him.

HokieRed
06-05-2007, 04:28 PM
No offense, klw, but it seems like a distinction without a difference. Net result of Krivsky's decision-making: Germano gone, Cormier in, paid 4+ million, I think, for what he gave us. Bad, bad decisions, consistent with nearly everything Krivsky has done regarding the attempt to improve the bullpen.