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View Full Version : The Brennamans' hyperboles....



kaldaniels
06-06-2007, 12:29 AM
I listened to about 10 minutes of the game tonight in my truck and caught these 2 nuggets...

1) Marty - "Like it or not, the Reds are a better team with Hopper in the lineup instead of Adam Dunn"

2) Thom - "Javy Valentin is as good a fastball hitter as there is in the game" (which I took and believe he meant the entire big leagues)

My opinion....ridiculous. How do they get away with that? Discuss.

reds44
06-06-2007, 12:33 AM
Marty didn't really say that did he? He can't actually believe that.

kaldaniels
06-06-2007, 12:34 AM
Marty didn't really say that did he? He can't actually believe that.

Absolutely he did...I was stunned....he blamed it on Dunn's multi million dollar contract.

Gunner44
06-06-2007, 01:13 AM
i have come to believe that marty is a complete idiot

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 01:30 AM
If Marty was the GM, the Reds would win a maximum of 50 games per season. Marty would disagree.

RadfordVA
06-06-2007, 03:46 AM
2) Thom - "Javy Valentin is as good a fastball hitter as there is in the game" (which I took and believe he meant the entire big leagues)



I would have to agree with that statement. Javy seems to look for nothing but fastballs and try and rake. He wasnt saying he is one of the best hitters in the game just that he is a great fastball hitter. It is actually an indictment on his game more than anything. That you can be as good at something as anybody and still be the second catcher is sad. He is what he is, not that there is anything wrong with that.

BearcatShane
06-06-2007, 04:06 AM
"1) Marty - "Like it or not, the Reds are a better team with Hopper in the lineup instead of Adam Dunn""

If you really, really think about it, that statement is not as far fetched as one might think. Would you rather have a .320 hitter who does all the little things to help you win or a .250, 40 homer guy in which MAYBE 15 of those Homers come at meaningful times. Not to mention he's a huge defensive liability.

joshnky
06-06-2007, 07:03 AM
Not to mention he's a huge defensive liability.

I don't really think this is true. While he is certainly not a top defender, Dunn's defense certainly does not seem to be the liability that it is made out to be. Everyone remembers the disastrous 3 error opening day of last year and forgets that he has only made 3 errors all year. He might not be pretty, but he usually gets the job done.

eastkyred
06-06-2007, 07:36 AM
I don't really think this is true. While he is certainly not a top defender, Dunn's defense certainly does not seem to be the liability that it is made out to be. Everyone remembers the disastrous 3 error opening day of last year and forgets that he has only made 3 errors all year. He might not be pretty, but he usually gets the job done.

You are not watching the games! Dunn is the worst OF in baseball! I can't believe anyone could possible defend his defense. It's not only about errors. He also has horrible range.

mound_patrol
06-06-2007, 07:40 AM
"1) Marty - "Like it or not, the Reds are a better team with Hopper in the lineup instead of Adam Dunn""

If you really, really think about it, that statement is not as far fetched as one might think. Would you rather have a .320 hitter who does all the little things to help you win or a .250, 40 homer guy in which MAYBE 15 of those Homers come at meaningful times. Not to mention he's a huge defensive liability.

Yeah it's nice to have a guy who can hit .320 and get on base. I'd rather have Hopper than Freel thats for sure. But you also need guys like Dunn to drive in guys like Hopper. If we had 8 hoppers out there we'd have a combined 8 Rbi's. Hopper isn't any real threat to drive in guys.

Shaggy Sanchez
06-06-2007, 09:26 AM
You are not watching the games! Dunn is the worst OF in baseball! I can't believe anyone could possible defend his defense. It's not only about errors. He also has horrible range.

In a related note willy Mo Pena and Manny Ramirez say hello.

joshnky
06-06-2007, 09:35 AM
You are not watching the games! Dunn is the worst OF in baseball! I can't believe anyone could possible defend his defense. It's not only about errors. He also has horrible range.

Oh, how we love hyperbole. I'll post some numbers to refute this post later on.

CySeymour
06-06-2007, 09:44 AM
"1) Marty - "Like it or not, the Reds are a better team with Hopper in the lineup instead of Adam Dunn""

If you really, really think about it, that statement is not as far fetched as one might think. Would you rather have a .320 hitter who does all the little things to help you win or a .250, 40 homer guy in which MAYBE 15 of those Homers come at meaningful times. Not to mention he's a huge defensive liability.

First off, if Norris Hopper played a full season, I really have a hard time believing he would hit .320. Let's for the sake of argument say that he would hit .290 at the big league level. I am of the opinion that Hopper would still put up a lower OBP than Dunn, hence he would be making more outs that Dunn. I also believe he would score fewer runs and knock in a lot fewer. And good defense just cannot make up for that in a left fielder.

joshnky
06-06-2007, 10:31 AM
You are not watching the games! Dunn is the worst OF in baseball! I can't believe anyone could possible defend his defense. It's not only about errors. He also has horrible range.

The stats below come from the Hardball Times Zone Rating calculation for LF for 2006. They determine a zone for all LF and then calcuate the fractions of outs made compared to opportunities in that zone. The stats below refute the claim that Dunn is the worst outfielder in baseball and has horrible range. In fact, it appears that he is about average for all LF. But then again, maybe I don't watch enough games to know what I'm talking about.


Year Last, First Tm ZR OOZ
2006 Roberts, Dave SD .932 34
2006 Ethier, Andre E LAN .920 23
2006 Cabrera, Melky NYA .915 35
2006 Murton, Matt CHN .904 43
2006 Podsednik, Sc CHA .896 46
2006 Soriano, Alf WAS .881 53
2006 Dunn, Adam CIN .878 42
2006 Holliday, Matt COL .871 54
2006 Ibanez, Raul SEA .868 51
2006 Bay, Jason PIT .867 56
2006 Gonzalez, Luis ARI .863 41
2006 Michaels, Jas CLE .860 42
2006 Crawford, Carl TB .857 51
2006 Bonds, Barry SF .855 35
2006 Burrell, Pat PHI .844 26
2006 Willingham, J FLA .819 30
2006 Monroe, Craig DET .796 39
2006 Ramirez, Manny BOS .643 38

mound_patrol
06-06-2007, 10:34 AM
The stats below come from the Hardball Times Zone Rating calculation for LF for 2006. They determine a zone for all LF and then calcuate the fractions of outs made compared to opportunities in that zone. The stats below refute the claim that Dunn is the worst outfielder in baseball and has horrible range. In fact, it appears that he is about average for all LF. But then again, maybe I don't watch enough games to know what I'm talking about.


Year Last, First Tm ZR OOZ
2006 Roberts, Dave SD .932 34
2006 Ethier, Andre E LAN .920 23
2006 Cabrera, Melky NYA .915 35
2006 Murton, Matt CHN .904 43
2006 Podsednik, Sc CHA .896 46
2006 Soriano, Alf WAS .881 53
2006 Dunn, Adam CIN .878 42
2006 Holliday, Matt COL .871 54
2006 Ibanez, Raul SEA .868 51
2006 Bay, Jason PIT .867 56
2006 Gonzalez, Luis ARI .863 41
2006 Michaels, Jas CLE .860 42
2006 Crawford, Carl TB .857 51
2006 Bonds, Barry SF .855 35
2006 Burrell, Pat PHI .844 26
2006 Willingham, J FLA .819 30
2006 Monroe, Craig DET .796 39
2006 Ramirez, Manny BOS .643 38


What are you thinking using stats. Watching Dunn tells the WHOLE story of his game. Nice work digging this up. :thumbup:

Dunner44
06-06-2007, 10:42 AM
The stats below come from the Hardball Times Zone Rating calculation for LF for 2006. They determine a zone for all LF and then calcuate the fractions of outs made compared to opportunities in that zone. The stats below refute the claim that Dunn is the worst outfielder in baseball and has horrible range. In fact, it appears that he is about average for all LF. But then again, maybe I don't watch enough games to know what I'm talking about.


Year Last, First Tm ZR OOZ
2006 Roberts, Dave SD .932 34
2006 Ethier, Andre E LAN .920 23
2006 Cabrera, Melky NYA .915 35
2006 Murton, Matt CHN .904 43
2006 Podsednik, Sc CHA .896 46
2006 Soriano, Alf WAS .881 53
2006 Dunn, Adam CIN .878 42
2006 Holliday, Matt COL .871 54
2006 Ibanez, Raul SEA .868 51
2006 Bay, Jason PIT .867 56
2006 Gonzalez, Luis ARI .863 41
2006 Michaels, Jas CLE .860 42
2006 Crawford, Carl TB .857 51
2006 Bonds, Barry SF .855 35
2006 Burrell, Pat PHI .844 26
2006 Willingham, J FLA .819 30
2006 Monroe, Craig DET .796 39
2006 Ramirez, Manny BOS .643 38


If I remember correctly, there was also another stat someone dragged up from BP that ranked all balls as easy, normal and hard, and dunn made most of the hard catches. Last year dunn had to cover a lot of ground, making up for Jr. slow self. With freel or Hammy in CF, dunn doesn't have to cover nearly the same amount of ground.

...however, he does make some really stupid plays some times. For instance, in a game against the pirates last homestand, he made a diving attempt for a ball, and then threw off his butt into shallow center field, allowing the runner to advance from 1st to 2nd easily.


And to clarify the Valentin quote, Marty and Thom were saying that Javy waits on FBs and feasts on them. They said pitchers won't throw him the FB, they try to sneak off speed stuff by him. There are plenty of guys who feast on FBs and suck at off-speed stuff. Javy is one of those guys. That makes him effective as a PH because most relievers don't have 4 pitches to give him and have to try to sneak a FB once and again, but he doesn't see the same from starting pitching.

Wily Mo could hit fastballs a ton too, but that doesn't make him the owrlds greatest hitter. Thom said they were just respecting Javy's ability to turn on FBs and throwing him offspeed stuff.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 10:45 AM
What's most hilarious about this should be apparent to anyone with a working knowledge of the numbers of the back of a baseball card. Every year, Adam Dunn scores 100 runs, drives in roughly 100, hits between 30-45 home runs, and walks 100 times. Norris Hopper has played like 20 major league games. It's ludicrous to contend that a proven big league run producer like Dunn is somehow inferior to a AAAA guy like Hopper who doesn't walk, doesn't run especially well, and is due for a huge and possibly terminal slump.

But I learned a long time ago that opinions among the greater Reds fanbase are driven by Marty Brennaman's personal vendettas and "fascinating" baseball opinions, whether they have anything to do with reality or not.

kaldaniels
06-06-2007, 11:03 AM
If I remember correctly, there was also another stat someone dragged up from BP that ranked all balls as easy, normal and hard, and dunn made most of the hard catches. Last year dunn had to cover a lot of ground, making up for Jr. slow self. With freel or Hammy in CF, dunn doesn't have to cover nearly the same amount of ground.

...however, he does make some really stupid plays some times. For instance, in a game against the pirates last homestand, he made a diving attempt for a ball, and then threw off his butt into shallow center field, allowing the runner to advance from 1st to 2nd easily.


And to clarify the Valentin quote, Marty and Thom were saying that Javy waits on FBs and feasts on them. They said pitchers won't throw him the FB, they try to sneak off speed stuff by him. There are plenty of guys who feast on FBs and suck at off-speed stuff. Javy is one of those guys. That makes him effective as a PH because most relievers don't have 4 pitches to give him and have to try to sneak a FB once and again, but he doesn't see the same from starting pitching.

Wily Mo could hit fastballs a ton too, but that doesn't make him the owrlds greatest hitter. Thom said they were just respecting Javy's ability to turn on FBs and throwing him offspeed stuff.

Yes, thats true but Thom did say Javy is as good a fastball hitter as there is in the game. He said it....its out there. My question, if you were to poll 30 managers and ask them what are the top 25 batters they would want at the plate in that situation (bases loaded) if they knew the pitch the batter would hit was a fastball...how many would name Javy. Javy is excellent at the FB, no doubt...but I find it hard to believe the best fastball hitter in the bigs is the backup catcher for the Cincinnati Reds.

joshnky
06-06-2007, 11:17 AM
...however, he does make some really stupid plays some times. For instance, in a game against the pirates last homestand, he made a diving attempt for a ball, and then threw off his butt into shallow center field, allowing the runner to advance from 1st to 2nd easily.

I do agree that Dunn can make some bonehead plays although he is certainly not the only one. The occasional stupid play combined with his body size makes him appear to be a worse fielder than he really is. I also think that Reds fans have a hard time forgetting his disastrous opening day from last year.

mound_patrol
06-06-2007, 11:24 AM
I do agree that Dunn can make some bonehead plays although he is certainly not the only one. The occasional stupid play combined with his body size makes him appear to be a worse fielder than he really is. I also think that Reds fans have a hard time forgetting his disastrous opening day from last year.

I can completely agree with that. Along with the fact that Marty is quick to bring Dunn down. If fans hear it enough they'll start believing it.

Screwball
06-06-2007, 11:24 AM
Yes, thats true but Thom did say Javy is as good a fastball hitter as there is in the game. He said it....its out there. My question, if you were to poll 30 managers and ask them what are the top 25 batters they would want at the plate in that situation (bases loaded) if they knew the pitch the batter would hit was a fastball...how many would name Javy. Javy is excellent at the FB, no doubt...but I find it hard to believe the best fastball hitter in the bigs is the backup catcher for the Cincinnati Reds.

Yeah you definitely have to take Thom's statements (absurd hyperbole) with a grain of salt, otherwise you end up yelling at your TV like me. He's also been known to say that GABP is "one of the best stadiums in either league" and told Jeff Brantley that Juan Castro "is the best utility infielder in the game". I think it's safe to categorize Thom B. as a homer, and his staements should be viewed as such.

Marge'sMullet
06-06-2007, 11:53 AM
Yeah you definitely have to take Thom's statements (absurd hyperbole) with a grain of salt, otherwise you end up yelling at your TV like me. He's also been known to say that GABP is "one of the best stadiums in either league" and told Jeff Brantley that Juan Castro "is the best utility infielder in the game". I think it's safe to categorize Thom B. as a homer, and his staements should be viewed as such.


You hit the nail on the head. Tom B. is a homer. If anyone takes what he say literal then they're just fools.

BTW, Dunn is below average in LF. I think the guy is clueless and hasn't learned a single thing in the 6 years he's been in the Bigs. But that's just my opinion.

Also, just about anyone can come up with stat to prove their point either way. Don't you all forget that.

>>>>>"How to Lie with Statisics"<<<<<

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Also, just about anyone can come up with stat to prove their point either way. Don't you all forget that.


I don't think there's any legitimate way to demonstrate that Norris Hopper is a better ballplayer than Adam Dunn. That's borne out of Marty's petty vendettas and the fans' acceptance thereof.

joshnky
06-06-2007, 12:19 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Tom B. is a homer. If anyone takes what he say literal then they're just fools.

BTW, Dunn is below average in LF. I think the guy is clueless and hasn't learned a single thing in the 6 years he's been in the Bigs. But that's just my opinion.

Also, just about anyone can come up with stat to prove their point either way. Don't you all forget that.

>>>>>"How to Lie with Statisics"<<<<<

And opinions are a better way of forming an argument? It is certainly true to say you believe he is a horrible outfielder. You can have whatever opinion you want. I was responding to a poster that declared Dunn the worst outfielder and stated that he couldn't believe anyone would still defend Dunn's defense. I gave him objective data to show why some defend Dunn's defense. And by the way, Dunn was near the bottom for zone rating in 2005 and seems to have improved in 2006. But don't let that get in the way of your opinion.

Also, while it is true that you can lie with statistics you compile, this was an objective measure by The Hardball Times. But the again, maybe they just wanted to make Dunn look better.

RedEye
06-06-2007, 12:29 PM
"1) Marty - "Like it or not, the Reds are a better team with Hopper in the lineup instead of Adam Dunn""

If you really, really think about it, that statement is not as far fetched as one might think. Would you rather have a .320 hitter who does all the little things to help you win or a .250, 40 homer guy in which MAYBE 15 of those Homers come at meaningful times. Not to mention he's a huge defensive liability.

Oh boy... here we go. First of all, Hopper is by no measure a .320 hitter. He has played in small parts of two major league seasons, so the small sample size caveat is a major issue here. Second, you are completely overlooking all the little ways that Dunn helps this team win. Yes, he does hit HR, but he also walks, scores runs, and drives in more runs than any other player on this roster. He is 27 years old with over 200 lifetime HR. Despite Hamilton's emergence, and with all due respect to Junior, Dunn is still our most dependable, all-around offensive player. And it's not really close.

Marty is the king of hyperbole, and this is one example of a claim (like many concerning Dunn these days) that got away from him. That does not mean, however, that he is a bad broadcaster. Part of his role, the role of any baseball game commentator IMO, is to say things that spur the viewers to engage critically and passionately with the game they love. Marty does that as well as anyone in baseball history, and that's why he's a Hall of Famer. I don't agree with him all the time, but he makes baseball a more engaging sport to watch.

JLB5
06-06-2007, 12:33 PM
I don't think there's any legitimate way to demonstrate that Norris Hopper is a better ballplayer than Adam Dunn. That's borne out of Marty's petty vendettas and the fans' acceptance thereof.

Marty in no way claimed that Norris Hopper is a "better" ballplayer than Adam Dunn. His claim was that this team may be better with Hopper in the lineup every day than Dunn. Marty believes that defense and situational hitting is more important than home runs and OPS.

Heard a funny comment about Hopper today on the radio. Mo Egger said, yeah they should play him everyday and let him hack away... maybe he can hit .320 with a .324 OBP, that would be an accomplishment.

Fil3232
06-06-2007, 12:52 PM
The team would be better off getting Dunn's production for less. This is true. Any team could say that about any player not making the minimum. To insinuate that Hopper can fill Dunn's void is absolutely insane and exhibit #763 of Marty's complete bias against Dunn. It's sad that a "HoF" broadcaster would stoop to such lows.

redsupport
06-06-2007, 12:56 PM
The Brennemans also stated that if the Reds reactivate Jim Beauchamp and Champ Summers they might become champions

nw_ohio_fan
06-06-2007, 01:08 PM
Hopper has done well so far. I just don't think he can hit over .300 all year. Either way we just have too many outfielders. I just can't see Hopper playing everyday.

700 WLW
06-11-2007, 01:42 AM
The Brennamans are very opinionated and I love it. Marty has been with this organization for over 30 years, and has seen it all. He obviously knows a thing or two about this club. His word is gold as far as I'm concerned.

Thom is possibly more outspoken than his father. He knows the game, and has the great ability to tell it like it is.

By the way, Norris is a great addition to this team. I'd personally love to see Dunn go to San Diego or LA as soon as possible.

reds44
06-11-2007, 01:44 AM
The Brennamans are very opinionated and I love it. Marty has been with this organization for over 30 years, and has seen it all. He obviously knows a thing or two about this club. His word is gold as far as I'm concerned.

Thom is possibly more outspoken than his father. He knows the game, and has the great ability to tell it like it is.

By the way, Norris is a great addition to this team. I'd personally love to see Dunn go to San Diego or LA as soon as possible.
Matt, is that you?

I wouldn't mind seeing Dunn traded either, but it has nothing to do with Norris Hopper.

boognish
06-11-2007, 07:51 AM
His word is gold as far as I'm concerned.

Herein lies the problem with baseless claims re: Hopper vs. Dunn from people out to "create good radio" who are "paid to give an opinion." Hopper should be the 25th man on the bench and used for speed and the very special occasion on which a bunt will avail.

His "situational hitting" and "defense" are mirages...his throws have big loops in them and he thinks he can throw anyone out, missing the cut-off man and allowing trailing baserunners to take extra bases. His routes to fly balls make me pine for Ryan Freel. How the entire Reds' announce team can extol Hopper's defense with a straight face, I will never understand.

gilpdawg
06-11-2007, 01:18 PM
The Brennamans are very opinionated and I love it. Marty has been with this organization for over 30 years, and has seen it all. He obviously knows a thing or two about this club. His word is gold as far as I'm concerned.

Thom is possibly more outspoken than his father. He knows the game, and has the great ability to tell it like it is.

By the way, Norris is a great addition to this team. I'd personally love to see Dunn go to San Diego or LA as soon as possible.
So it's okay to be opinionated if you're totally full of crap? Marty, and now Thom, do more to turn the fans against this franchise than the opposite, which is part of their jobs. It's okay to "call it like you see it" but saying totally retarded things like Marty is quoted as saying above is completely counter-productive. Exhibit A:
His word is gold as far as I'm concerned. So if Marty had a hair up his butt one night and ripped on Aaron Harang you'd want him out of town as well? Way to think for yourself, guy.

bucksfan2
06-11-2007, 02:04 PM
I love the "calling it as you see it" style that Marty does. He doesn't sugar coat anything and it makes for a better broadcast. However over the past few years he has gotten more cynical than ever. The Dunn vs. Hopper comparision is just idiotic. The problem that i have is if a radio personality like a Brennaman or Lance say something most fans believe that it is gold. The fact of the matter is that they are opinions. Some opinions are made through quatilty baseball knowledge while others are made because you hold a grudge against a particular player. Formulate your own opinions, dont let someone behind a microphone tell you how to think.

700 WLW
06-11-2007, 02:17 PM
Formulate your own opinions, dont let someone behind a microphone tell you how to think.

When I say Marty's word is gold, I don't mean that I believe absolutely everything that comes out of his mouth. Yes, I am a huge fan of Marty and the Reds on Radio, and I agree with Franchester a lot of the time. What is with all the Marty bashing on this board? Apparently it's a crime against the Reds to be a fan of Marty Brennaman. Come on.

joshnky
06-11-2007, 02:33 PM
I listened to a portion of Friday's game and you'd think Milton was pitching the way Marty ripped on Homer. Without knowing the score you would have thought Homer had been blasted instead he allowed 2 runs to a tough Indians team. It was humorous to hear Brantley try to accentuate the positives to counteract the venom spewed by Marty. You would think even he would find a glimmer of hope in such a highly touted prospect but Marty seems to want massive changes to the Reds and will denigrate them until the changes he wants occur.

gilpdawg
06-11-2007, 04:04 PM
When I say Marty's word is gold, I don't mean that I believe absolutely everything that comes out of his mouth. Yes, I am a huge fan of Marty and the Reds on Radio, and I agree with Franchester a lot of the time. What is with all the Marty bashing on this board? Apparently it's a crime against the Reds to be a fan of Marty Brennaman. Come on.

Nope, I like Marty. Doesn't mean I'm not going to call him out when he says something that's so off base you'd have to be a complete slack-jawed moron to buy it.

Ludwig Reds Fan
06-11-2007, 05:32 PM
hey I may be slack jawed and I may be a moron, but I am NOT a ....wait a minute, what was that third thing you said?


lol seriously though, Marty has earned his right to be a cranky old Reds fan. I can like listening to a guy who I don't always agree with. I think Joe Nuxhall, back in the day (1980's, when they weren't fighting) had the effect on Marty of not letting him take the game so seriously, while still keeping passion and love for the game.

Plus, the Reds have kinda been bad for a WHILE now. They are approaching 1990s-Bengal-esque ineptitude. Blake to Pickens anyone? They sure were fun to watch, weren't they? A glimmer of entertainment while stomaching yet another losing season from a team whose hierarchy from owner down to the bat-boy is questionable at best.

Watching the games, I think about these things when I am not entertained by great stories like Homer, Hamilton, Griffey, etc., and as a long time Reds fan, it disappoints me.

As it stands now, REALISTICALLY, the Reds have no chance. Everywhere they go, they are outgunned, outhustled, out-thought, outspent, and out-talented.

If I were Marty, I'd be grumpy too, thats all I'm saying. ;)

CWRed
06-11-2007, 08:45 PM
Marty Brennaman has turned into the Billy Packer of baseball. And if you don't know what I mean by that you know nothing about sports. It amazes me at how some people continue to think Adam Dunn is the problem with this team and Norris Hopper is the best thing since string cheese. Tell me this. How often is Hopper on base compared to Adam Dunn? How many major league at bats does Hopper have? I love Hopper but he's a backup, plain and simple. Narron, Krivsky, and the Brennamans obviously have shared some man love and have the same brains. I just wish most Reds fans would stop drinking the Koo-Aid.

These guys would be happy with Castro, Javy, and Conine playing every day.

Lockdwn11
06-11-2007, 08:55 PM
Marty Brennaman has turned into the Billy Packer of baseball. And if you don't know what I mean by that you know nothing about sports. It amazes me at how some people continue to think Adam Dunn is the problem with this team and Norris Hopper is the best thing since string cheese. Tell me this. How often is Hopper on base compared to Adam Dunn? How many major league at bats does Hopper have? I love Hopper but he's a backup, plain and simple. Narron, Krivsky, and the Brennamans obviously have shared some man love and have the same brains. I just wish most Reds fans would stop drinking the Koo-Aid.

These guys would be happy with Castro, Javy, and Conine playing every day.

I'm not saying you are wrong in any of your points but please tell me why Norris Hopper is nothing more than a backup?You state it as a fact and not your opinion I mean the guy has done nothing to show me he can't play everyday so what facts do you have to back your statement ?I'm not saying he is a everyday player or the answer but he hasn't shown me that he can't or isn't.

CWRed
06-12-2007, 12:23 PM
I'm not saying you are wrong in any of your points but please tell me why Norris Hopper is nothing more than a backup?You state it as a fact and not your opinion I mean the guy has done nothing to show me he can't play everyday so what facts do you have to back your statement ?I'm not saying he is a everyday player or the answer but he hasn't shown me that he can't or isn't.


Yes you are correct. I should have been more elaborate. My main point is that nobody at this time can say that Norris Hopper is more valuable than Adam Dunn; especially based on a month or two.
Based on his career minor league stats, it doens' look good for his future, and usually this is a good indicator of a player's success. Here are Hopper's career minor league numbers:

Hopper: Dunn:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
290 .345 .337 682 245 .380 .513 893

OBP is not very good for guy who has zero power. The slugging % and OPS are abysmal. Dunn's numbers are outstanding except for his average. The fact that he strikes out is not as relevant whe you are on base 38% of the time EVERY YEAR! Now, some players just seem to shine in the majors. So I hope I am wrong about Hopper because I really do like him and he deserves to keep playing as long as he shows he belongs. The Reds will have to dump Jr. or Dunn so Hopper will need to fill that void until Jay Bruce comes along. Freel might not be back. So I worry that we will be stuck with a player who for a whole season would probably hit around .300 but his OBP would be about .315-.320, drive in 25 runs, and hit 1 HR. Not Dunn-worthy. But a lot cheaper!