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View Full Version : 2007 Reds: Not Even a Train-Wreck Anymore



Edskin
06-06-2007, 10:07 AM
As a caveat, I will admit that the Cavs' current NBA status has "allowed" me to not beat myself up over the Reds too much this year. By the time the NBA Finals are over, football will only be a month or so away from heating up. So, personally, my summer won't be as long and dreadful sports-wise as it could have been.

However, even if the Cavs and Redskins were champions, it wouldn't make me love the Reds any less. It doesn't make me care any less. I know that pretty soon, the Reds will be my only sports focus, and I know it's gonna sting.

When I started my "Vinny" thread, I obviously did it for silly reasons. Just a little levity and fun. But deep down, I was thinking, "you never know." More importantly, I was still somewhat intruiged by the "train wreck" mentality. Sort of draw to this particular team for sadistic reasons.

But watching the game last night, this is how I felt.

The train has wrecked. There were no survivors. All of the rubble and debris has been cleaned up. There is nothing left to see. Just an empty space.

Train wrecks drawn our attention when there is still chaos. Still the intruige of what the wreck has left behind. What are the casualties? But the wreck ceases to be of interest once those questions are answered.

This season sucks. It just sucks.

OldXOhio
06-06-2007, 11:10 AM
Yes, last night was yet another example of a team (for whatever reason you want to use since they are so numerous) that simply cannot get it done. That said, I'm still interested in what the wreck leaves behind. Hate to admit it, but I barely care about the on the field results any more. However, I am still very interested to see what WK will be doing over the next 6-8 weeks with the wreckage.

Marc D
06-06-2007, 11:23 AM
Yes, last night was yet another example of a team (for whatever reason you want to use since they are so numerous) that simply cannot get it done. That said, I'm still interested in what the wreck leaves behind. Hate to admit it, but I barely care about the on the field results any more. However, I am still very interested to see what WK will be doing over the next 6-8 weeks with the wreckage.


I have this sickening feeling in my gut that he stands pat. I think he and BC still feel they built a winner and are due to turn the corner anyday now. IMO, they are way down that particular river in Egypt we all know and love.

I also feel this trade deadline is a watershed moment in WK's career as Reds GM. His track record up untill now has been spotty at best, down right bad if you're honest about it. If he can't make something positive happen now, its time for even the most ardent supporters to come to grips with the fact we are once again in the hands of an incompetent GM with an owner who just wants to make a buck.

westofyou
06-06-2007, 11:27 AM
I like trains.
On and off the track
In the dump or going fast.
I like trains red or black
Going forwards or going back

Kc61
06-06-2007, 11:35 AM
I have this sickening feeling in my gut that he stands pat. I think he and BC still feel they built a winner and are due to turn the corner anyday now. IMO, they are way down that particular river in Egypt we all know and love.

If he can't make something positive happen now, its time for even the most ardent supporters to come to grips with the fact we are once again in the hands of an incompetent GM with an owner who just wants to make a buck.

I can't see them standing pat, they know the future of the Reds is younger players. Just listening to Cast in the press reports, he obviously doesn't think this current group is going to win.

My concern, frankly, is that management will not be bold enough. Sure, they will look to trade guys like Hatteberg, the older relievers, Lohse.

But is management willing -- and will the fans tolerate -- making bigger deals for guys like Dunn and Griffey, which may bring a better return and really start the re-shaping of this team.

smith288
06-06-2007, 12:51 PM
I also feel this trade deadline is a watershed moment in WK's career as Reds GM. His track record up untill now has been spotty at best, down right bad if you're honest about it. If he can't make something positive happen now, its time for even the most ardent supporters to come to grips with the fact we are once again in the hands of an incompetent GM with an owner who just wants to make a buck.


What positive can he do when we have a bunch of lousy veterans and maybe one or two pieces of trade bait (chum more like it)?

My opinion is if he concludes this team needs blown up, then im fine. Standing pat or a repeat of "the trade" then im not fine and Wayne will be lucky im in columbus.

This team currently has no potential. None.

Marc D
06-06-2007, 01:00 PM
What positive can he do when we have a bunch of lousy veterans and maybe one or two pieces of trade bait (chum more like it)?

My opinion is if he concludes this team needs blown up, then im fine. Standing pat or a repeat of "the trade" then im not fine and Wayne will be lucky im in columbus.

This team currently has no potential. None.


Turn Dunn, Harang, Arroyo and Jr into something as the main course.

Freel, Lohse, Hatte, Conine, Weathers and Stanton(maybe) are the appetizers.

Depending on the return you might be able to ship Gonzales out as well.

That should bring a big enough haul of near MLB ready prospects to add to HB, Votto, Bruce. You have a BP, Hamilton, EE core at the MLB level already.

Use the payflex created from clearing a lot of contracts on a few strategic vets to sprinkle in with all the kids, get a real manager and rest easy knowing you've done the best you can do.

There is potential there, however I agree with those who feel this FO lacks the skill/imagination/fortitude to do what needs to be done.

OldXOhio
06-06-2007, 01:19 PM
Turn Dunn, Harang, Arroyo and Jr into something as the main course.

Freel, Lohse, Hatte, Conine, Weathers and Stanton(maybe) are the appetizers.

Depending on the return you might be able to ship Gonzales out as well.

That should bring a big enough haul of near MLB ready prospects to add to HB, Votto, Bruce. You have a BP, Hamilton, EE core at the MLB level already.

Use the payflex created from clearing a lot of contracts on a few strategic vets to sprinkle in with all the kids, get a real manager and rest easy knowing you've done the best you can do.

There is potential there, however I agree with those who feel this FO lacks the skill/imagination/fortitude to do what needs to be done.

Unless you're expecting a king's ransom in return, why would you deal Arroyo and Harang? This team has bottom fed for so long for starters yet you deal the ones you've finally found? Arroyo's may never put up 2006 numbers again, but he's still a solid 3 or 4 who eats a lot of innings at an affordable rate.

westofyou
06-06-2007, 01:20 PM
Unless you're expecting a king's ransom in return, why would you deal Arroyo and Harang? This team has bottom fed for so long for starters yet you deal the ones you've finally found? Arroyo's may never put up 2006 numbers again, but he's still a solid 3 or 4 who eats a lot of innings at an affordable rate.

Boy if the Reds went that way to the hilt they'd be in 1934 country, then the hounds would rip them apart, it would make the current feeding look tame in comparison.

Marc D
06-06-2007, 01:54 PM
Unless you're expecting a king's ransom in return, why would you deal Arroyo and Harang? This team has bottom fed for so long for starters yet you deal the ones you've finally found? Arroyo's may never put up 2006 numbers again, but he's still a solid 3 or 4 who eats a lot of innings at an affordable rate.


Simple answer? PABP, IP and Jerry Narron.

Let their arms fall off for someone else. Get guys who will be productive at the same age as HB and company.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 02:16 PM
This team currently has no potential. None.

But hey..tickets are still available for Homer's debut :evil:

BuckWoody
06-06-2007, 03:33 PM
Am I to understand correctly from the pictures in the first post, ed, that Vinny has entered the Witness Protection Program? :confused:

Edskin
06-06-2007, 06:51 PM
Buck--This should help you figure it out......

BuckWoody
06-06-2007, 07:44 PM
For your sake, I'm hoping that Vinny's picking the Spurs. :D

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 07:59 PM
So what you're saying is that the Reds are no longer the train, but the tunnel?

There's a sexual metaphor there that I can't quite figure out.

Rojo
06-06-2007, 08:02 PM
Simple answer? PABP, IP and Jerry Narron.

Let their arms fall off for someone else. Get guys who will be productive at the same age as HB and company.

Except teams WAY overvalue their "Homer Baileys" -- woundn't trade 'em for Walter Johnson.

If you're lucky you might turn an Arroyo or Harang into a...well....Arroyo or Harang.

Marc D
06-06-2007, 08:57 PM
Except teams WAY overvalue their "Homer Baileys" -- woundn't trade 'em for Walter Johnson.

If you're lucky you might turn an Arroyo or Harang into a...well....Arroyo or Harang.

This team has no choice.

I know kids flame out all the time but its either take your chances with a wave of kids or no doubt about it decades of suck with what we have right now. Standing pat with Arroyo and Harang gets us exactly where we are right now, nowhere. By the time some help arrives they'll be spent.

If I have to play russian roullette and get the choice between 5 bullets or 6...well 5 is risky but 6 is certain.