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View Full Version : The Krivsky move that baffles me the most



The Snow Chief
06-06-2007, 11:44 AM
I am a bigger fan of Krivsky than most on this board, but I can't understand the Coffey re-signing. It's not the fact that he re-signed, but the amount. Unless I am missing something, Coffey would not be arbitration eligable next season. He is struggling. Why will he be paid close to a million dollars next year when the Reds can pay him the leauge minimum? Small market teams can't afford to give money away. We (as we should) pay Phillips, Hamilton, and Edwin at or near league minimum because they have no recourse. Why are we not doing the same with Coffey.

Screwball
06-06-2007, 11:55 AM
I am a bigger fan of Krivsky than most on this board, but I can't understand the Coffey re-signing. It's not the fact that he re-signed, but the amount. Unless I am missing something, Coffey would not be arbitration eligable next season. He is struggling. Why will he be paid close to a million dollars next year when the Reds can pay him the leauge minimum? Small market teams can't afford to give money away. We (as we should) pay Phillips, Hamilton, and Edwin at or near league minimum because they have no recourse. Why are we not doing the same with Coffey.

I suppose because he was a very solid reliever last year, and chances were that he would get out of this funk he's been in and start putting up those same kind of numbers. However, Krivsky forgot that Coffey is currently wearing a Reds uniform and apparently that means that you must be awful no matter what your career numbers or your "stuff" suggests.

Marge'sMullet
06-06-2007, 12:00 PM
Yeah I think the FO was thinking that possible Coffey is better than what his numbers have shown thus far. I think they were trying to buy cheap with the possiblitly of him becoming more expensive.

Sometimes you lose and sometimes you win. FO's seems to lose most of the time and players seem to win mostly.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 12:09 PM
Yeah I think the FO was thinking that possible Coffey is better than what his numbers have shown thus far.

Right, but my understanding is that Coffey wasn't arb-eligible yet. In 2006 he made the rookie minimum ($339,000) and would be due to make the second year minimum this year but for some inconceivable reason Krivsky decided to triple his salary.

Typically when you bump a young guy's salary the club gets something out of it--typically, buying out some arbitration years. I believe the Tribe have done this with Hafner and Sizemore. The Reds get nothing out of this 1-year deal except spending $600,000 they really had no obligation or need to spend.

(For details on MLB contracts, check out: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/cincinnati-reds_24.html)

The Snow Chief
06-06-2007, 12:14 PM
Right, but my understanding is that Coffey wasn't arb-eligible yet. In 2006 he made the rookie minimum ($339,000) and would be due to make the second year minimum this year but for some inconceivable reason Krivsky decided to triple his salary.

Typically when you bump a young guy's salary the club gets something out of it--typically, buying out some arbitration years. I believe the Tribe have done this with Hafner and Sizemore. The Reds get nothing out of this 1-year deal except spending $600,000 they really had no obligation or need to spend.

(For details on MLB contracts, check out: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/cincinnati-reds_24.html)

Right. That's my point. They could have paid him at least a half million less. I don't have a problem with the signing, just the overpayment.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 12:19 PM
Right. That's my point. They could have paid him at least a half million less. I don't have a problem with the signing, just the overpayment.

My original post was inaccurate: Coffey is making the second-year minimum this year (appx $400,000) and is bumped up to about $900,000 for 2008.

You know, there is one justification for this, and that's if Krivsky thought that Coffey might be a Super Two in 2008 and eligible for arbitration. Had Coffey proven himself as the team's closer, then he may have ended up in that top 17% of third-year players in 2008 that get access to the arb process. Krivsky might have feared that Coffey, perhaps coming off a 30 SV season, would have garnered $2M or so in arbitration and wanted to head that possibility off at the pass.

In most cases, I would say that that is an acceptable risk that hasn't worked out. Here, however, you have to question the decision because Coffey was not exactly lights-out by the end of last year.

Screwball
06-06-2007, 12:19 PM
Right. That's my point. They could have paid him at least a half million less. I don't have a problem with the signing, just the overpayment.

Yeah I see what you're saying. Although I guess anytime you can avoid a dicey arbitration case you go ahead and pull the trigger. Coffey wasn't overpaid by that much, at least by today's standards. My guess is that if Krivsky thought he could avoid arb. with Coffey by giving a little extra money up now, then it'd be worth it. However, Coffey's continued poor performance is not quite justifying that decision.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 12:21 PM
My guess is that Krivsky thought he could avoid arb. with Coffey by giving a little extra money up now, then it'd be worth it.

But, as noted above, it's far from clear that Coffey would have even been arb-eligible in 2008 (at least as I understand the system).

Screwball
06-06-2007, 12:26 PM
But, as noted above, it's far from clear that Coffey would have even been arb-eligible in 2008 (at least as I understand the system).

Yeah I don't think anybody fully understands the Super-2 rule. However, I would hope that a GM of a professional baseball team does. IMO, he saw that Coffey was going to be eligible, and worked out this contract to avoid the potential mess of an arb. hearing. At least, that's my guess, as I'm only vaguely aware of the arb. rules myself.

hebroncougar
06-06-2007, 12:50 PM
Because he has a very, very difficult time judging talent, as far as pitchers go. Look at all the one's that he's acquired or signed. The only one that is worth remotely anything is Arroyo. Then look at the one's he's let go. It's a lose-lose thing.

nw_ohio_fan
06-06-2007, 01:12 PM
I am reallystarting to Doubt Krivsky. I hate to say that. But we haven't gotten better by his moves. I loke Coffey and maybe they were hoping money would help with confidence or something.

bucksfan2
06-06-2007, 01:44 PM
Actually I see the logic in that move. Coffey had been an ok reliever who was probably going to be arbitration eligable after this season anyway and I think Krivsky did this to give Coffey more of a peace of mind feeling. IMO it seems that Coffey can get rattled easily on the mound and Krivsky new around what he would be playing Coffey anyway so he gave him the contract early.

DeadRedinCT
06-06-2007, 04:47 PM
But, as noted above, it's far from clear that Coffey would have even been arb-eligible in 2008 (at least as I understand the system).

Coffey would have been a super two arbitration eligible player. Coming into this season he had 1 year and 160 days of service. So, factoring in his brief minor league stint, he more than likely will end the year at 2 years and 150 days of service. I think this would definitely make him a Super 2 arbitration eligible player.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 05:16 PM
Regardless, it's probably not a move Krivsky would've made if he knew how ineffective Coffey was going to be this season.

redsupport
06-07-2007, 12:56 AM
yeah, krivsky and narron are very progressive, what an incredible duo, they are quite creative and inventive. Their intrepid preemptive strike to remold the team, and the bullpen has yielded fruitful results. I especially enjoy how they rapaciously raid other teams rosters and pick up valuable veterans

Strikes Out Looking
06-07-2007, 08:20 AM
Krivsky's worst move: Extending Jerry Narron last June.
Krivsky's second worst move: Not firing him today.

Narron has lost the ability to motivate the team (if he ever had it). Since you can't fire 25 players and you don't want to further deplete the few good arms you have (i.e. Homer Bailey), you need to try something else. Just my very frustrated opinion.