PDA

View Full Version : The Exorcist? Lets hope so



cincrazy
06-06-2007, 02:50 PM
I know this has been discussed before on this board, but I can't help but mention it again. Where is the fire on this team? I'm not necessarily talking about "leadership," as the Greg Vaughn thread talked about. I'm talking FIRE, an absolute hatred to lose. I get the feeling these player's don't like to lose, but I can't say for sure that it spoils many of their nights if they go home with a loss.

Think back to 1990. Lou Piniella might have been a maniac, and Paul O'Neill a frequent pouter in the eyes of some, but they had a refuse to lose mentality that this team just doesn't possess. And it's not just this current team, it's the entire organization.

A culture of losing has been bred into this organization from the ground up, and it just disgusts me. I want to see someone put a bat through a wall, someone charge the mound, someone lose their cool. Maybe it's not always the right thing to do, but sometimes what's right isn't always what's best.

It's time to blow this team up and get some attitude. And that's why Friday night will be such a great night for me. Not only is Homer Bailey extremely talented, but the guy has an arrogance to him that makes me smile. He's stubborn, he knows it, and he refuses to back down from any challenge. Maybe the Bailey/Bruce/Votto will pump some energy into this franchise.

Hit a few batter's. Charge the mound. Unload on the press in the clubhouse. Break a water cooler (but no body part's in the process, of course). I want to see a Lou Piniella, a Paul O'Neill, etc. Too often this team looks like a deer in the headlights. Instead of standing there waiting for the impact to come and blow you to pieces, be the aggressor for once. Maybe it doesn't always work, but it sure as hell can't hurt.

This team has always had a decent amount of talent on paper, and the same holds true for this year, but it never turns in to wins. Something deeper is wrong with this franchise, and it's going to take an exorcist to carry out the task.

Hopefully that starts on Friday night. Homer Bailey, you are from here on out The Exorcist. Don't let me down. If you give up a home run Friday, plunk the next batter right in the back. Send a message to the league that this franchise is pissed, and isn't going to be a welcome mat for the rest of MLB. Set the tone for the next generation of Reds player's.

Hopefully a new era starts Friday night. If not, if Bailey has the same nonchalant attitude to losing as the rest of the franchise, I'll be afraid for our future. Afraid that no matter how talented the player, the black hole of losing will suck them right in, forever vanquishing their hatred of losing. Homer, please start the process of saving this franchise from its own personal hell. Start a bench clearing brawl Friday night, and make me proud :evil:

I(heart)Freel
06-06-2007, 03:03 PM
Agreed.

I like it starting Friday too... because I think the Cincinnati-Cleveland rivalry has mellowed far too much. Maybe it's because the football rivalry has chilled out and moved to Pittsburgh. Dunno.

But I think it would be nice to kickstart the feud and now.

"The power of Homer compels you! The power of Homer compels you!"

JLB5
06-06-2007, 03:28 PM
Yeah, 'cause Sweet Lou's firey brand of managing is going over so well in Chicago. :rolleyes:

Some guys need that, others need a pat on the butt. Knowing who needs the kick and who needs the pat is what makes a good manager.

I'm no fan of Narron, but I can think of 100 other reasons to fire him than his "lack of fire." I wonder what kind of manager O'Neill would make. Besides being a hothead, he always seemed like an intelligent guy.

cincrazy
06-06-2007, 04:41 PM
This post wasn't a fire Jerry Narron thread. From the manager, all the way to the player's, this team lacks fire. You misread my post, my friend. Nobody on this team seems to want to HATE to lose like no other, and until I see an indication of that, I'm not going to be happy.

TheWalls
06-06-2007, 05:08 PM
The next time that Adam Dunn or Jerry Narron take a loss to heart will be the first time for both. This team will never win anything while it is built (at least financially) around Adam Dunn. Too many useless outs, stupid D, and LOBs.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 05:26 PM
The next time that Adam Dunn or Jerry Narron take a loss to heart will be the first time for both. This team will never win anything while it is built (at least financially) around Adam Dunn. Too many useless outs, stupid D, and LOBs.

I am so freaking sick of hearing about how Adam Dunn is the problem with this team. The fact is that NO ONE on the Reds books has come close to Dunn's production over the past four years. NO ONE.

Dunn did not throw away millions on crappy relief pitchers. Dunn is not responsible for the front office's obsession with guys who can't hit (Castro), field (Valentin), or do either (Moeller). Dunn is not responsible for ownership's cheapness. Dunn is not responsible for the terrible drafts that have doomed this franchise. Dunn is not responsible for the fact that the club won't hire any manager who won't accept payment in Shoney's coupons. Dunn is not responsible for the worst bullpen and bench in all of baseball. None of these things are Dunn's fault.

I will agree with one thing, though: the team sucks so bad they'll finish last with or without him. Sometimes I think Reds fans (and Marty Brennaman, official demi-God of Redsdom) get the team they deserve.

dsmith421
06-06-2007, 05:28 PM
And one more thing: no one on this board knows crap about how Dunn and Narron deal with losing. Not a damned thing. Implying that they both accept this crap sandwich gladly is at worst an outright lie and at best rank, unsupported speculation.

Fil3232
06-06-2007, 05:32 PM
Amen to both your posts dsmith

cincrazy
06-06-2007, 05:43 PM
Dsmith,this wasn't an Adam Dunn post, first and foremost, although I know your response was to another poster, and not me. Second of all, I'm not saying that Jerry Narron likes losing, or accepts losing. But he's absolutely lost right now. He's at a loss of what to do, and you can't deny that. The team is resigned to the fact that they suck, plain and simple. You see it in their actions. I don't have to be a mind reader to know when someone has absolute zero confidence in themselves or their team.

I'm not saying that this magical "fire" would correct everything, I just find it hard to believe that this team is so terrible, and nobody has yet to get pissed off. I keep hearing "patience." Yes, in the long run, patience. But for goodness sake, somebody get ticked off about all this losing. Somebody brush somebody off the plate, somebody go in for a hard slide. All I ask is that this team quits taking this losing lying down.

Good teams take losing personally. Some guys on this team do. And to other's, it's just a job. They get their butt's kicked, and it's quickly forgotten. Name me one good team that has these characteristics. These team has zero "bounce back" ability. They get knocked down, and they stay down.

I'm not saying they're quitter's. I'm not saying that they "suck." And while it might seem like it, I'm not saying that they don't care. They just don't get angry when they lose, and I've had enough of it, to be quiet honest.

kbrake
06-06-2007, 05:45 PM
The dude played from May on with a broken hand a couple seasons ago and never said a word. To say he doesnt care is a baseless claim and its pathetic.

kbrake
06-06-2007, 05:49 PM
Dsmith,this wasn't an Adam Dunn post, first and foremost, although I know your response was to another poster, and not me. Second of all, I'm not saying that Jerry Narron likes losing, or accepts losing. But he's absolutely lost right now. He's at a loss of what to do, and you can't deny that. The team is resigned to the fact that they suck, plain and simple. You see it in their actions. I don't have to be a mind reader to know when someone has absolute zero confidence in themselves or their team.

I'm not saying that this magical "fire" would correct everything, I just find it hard to believe that this team is so terrible, and nobody has yet to get pissed off. I keep hearing "patience." Yes, in the long run, patience. But for goodness sake, somebody get ticked off about all this losing. Somebody brush somebody off the plate, somebody go in for a hard slide. All I ask is that this team quits taking this losing lying down.

Good teams take losing personally. Some guys on this team do. And to other's, it's just a job. They get their butt's kicked, and it's quickly forgotten. Name me one good team that has these characteristics. These team has zero "bounce back" ability. They get knocked down, and they stay down.

I'm not saying they're quitter's. I'm not saying that they "suck." And while it might seem like it, I'm not saying that they don't care. They just don't get angry when they lose, and I've had enough of it, to be quiet honest.

Spare me. This teams problem is not one of attitude, it never has been. The team is horrible and they have a horrible manager. Jerry Narron is not lost he is just dumb. Its already been put out there, worst bullpen in baseball and worst bench in baseball. You could bring up a single A team filled with fire and passion but they would still lose cause they are over matched.

cincrazy
06-07-2007, 12:49 AM
I refuse to believe that this team is as bad as it's played. It's a bad team, no question, a poorly constructed team. But there is talent there, and a lot of it is going unrealized. When the going got rough early this season, the Reds got going, too. As in going away for the season. It's not a mentally tough team, and mental toughness is the first step to building a winning club.

kyred14
06-07-2007, 01:14 AM
I am so freaking sick of hearing about how Adam Dunn is the problem with this team. The fact is that NO ONE on the Reds books has come close to Dunn's production over the past four years. NO ONE.

Dunn did not throw away millions on crappy relief pitchers. Dunn is not responsible for the front office's obsession with guys who can't hit (Castro), field (Valentin), or do either (Moeller). Dunn is not responsible for ownership's cheapness. Dunn is not responsible for the terrible drafts that have doomed this franchise. Dunn is not responsible for the fact that the club won't hire any manager who won't accept payment in Shoney's coupons. Dunn is not responsible for the worst bullpen and bench in all of baseball. None of these things are Dunn's fault.

I will agree with one thing, though: the team sucks so bad they'll finish last with or without him. Sometimes I think Reds fans (and Marty Brennaman, official demi-God of Redsdom) get the team they deserve.

:clap: AMEN

dsmith421
06-07-2007, 03:02 AM
It's not a mentally tough team, and mental toughness is the first step to building a winning club.

I respectfully disagree. The first step toward building a winning club is assembling a team of good baseball players.

The Reds suck at that. And have for some time.

Moosie52
06-07-2007, 09:04 AM
I think a baseball team takes on the personality of it's best players. Ken Griffey is a great guy, one of the best players ever, but he has a quiet and easy going personality. Adam Dunn is laid back. I don't see anybody in the clubhouse who is driven to win. Scott Hatteburg is the only player who is even disgruntled about losing. It makes me miss Rich Aurelia so much.

kbrake
06-07-2007, 10:23 AM
Scott Hatteburg is the only player who is even disgruntled about losing. It makes me miss Rich Aurelia so much.

Again, how do you people know that stuff? Seems to me from everything we heard in the offseason and in the spring that Adam Dunn was pretty upset with the way things went in August in September. I wish I had the inside connection that some you guys do.

cincrazy
06-07-2007, 12:09 PM
Kbrake I'm certainly sure that Adam Dunn is ticked off about losing. Believe me, I'm not saying that they don't care.

And dsmith, you're more than correct about saying that this team has sucked for some time at collecting good ballplayer's :). It's a shame what baseball in Cincinnati has come to.

Moosie52
06-07-2007, 03:37 PM
Again, how do you people know that stuff? Seems to me from everything we heard in the offseason and in the spring that Adam Dunn was pretty upset with the way things went in August in September. I wish I had the inside connection that some you guys do.

Scott's the only player I've seen quotes from in the news media. Know of any other players who have spoken out?

kbrake
06-07-2007, 03:39 PM
Scott's the only player I've seen quotes from in the news media. Know of any other players who have spoken out?

Just cause they dont give the reporters great quotes to go put in the paper doesnt mean they dont care. Maybe some of them are so angry after they lose they dont want to talk to anyone. I wont say that is a fact cause like you, I really have no idea.