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Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Reds Starting Lineup from C. Trent:



Reds Lineup:
Hatteberg 3
Phillips 4
Griffey 9
Dunn 7
EE 5
Hamilton 8
Ross 2
Castro 6
Arroyo 1

Cardinals Lineup:

Eckstein 6
Duncan 7
Pujols 3
Edmonds 8
Rolen 5
Encarnacion 9
Miles 4
Stinnett 2
Thompson 1

Puffy
06-06-2007, 05:10 PM
I feel so Gene Mauch/Brian Downingish.

RichRed
06-06-2007, 05:17 PM
Castro, Castro, he's our man, if he can't...

Ahh, I give up.

BRM
06-06-2007, 05:18 PM
The problem with having Juan Castro on the roster is the manager is forced to actually play him from time to time.

BRM
06-06-2007, 05:19 PM
Castro should get a lot of fastballs with Arroyo hitting behind him.

pedro
06-06-2007, 05:26 PM
I feel so Gene Mauch/Brian Downingish.

Brian Downing has chunks of guys like Hatteberg in his stool, but yeah....

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 05:30 PM
Lets hope Arroyo can make it past the 4th

Heath
06-06-2007, 05:31 PM
The problem with having Juan Castro on the roster is that Jerry Narron the only manager in Major Freakin' League Baseball that thinks he is forced to actually play him from time to time.

Fixed BRM.

Puffy
06-06-2007, 05:47 PM
The problem with having Juan Castro on the roster is the manager is forced to actually play him from time to time.

Ummmmm, I should get a for this!

dabvu2498
06-06-2007, 05:55 PM
Fixed BRM.

Actually, Heath... a backup-type player who could actually play shortstop is not a bad idea for a team's roster, regardless of who the manager is.

Juan Castro just ain't that guy.

PS: Ben Zobrist (TB) has just one fewer PA than Juan and actually has a lower OPS (.378 to .385).

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:24 PM
Hmmm....

Hatteberg 1b
Phillips 2b
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Hamilton cf
Ross c
Castro ss
Arroyo p


Again, not a bad lineup, all things considered. Gonzalez is still gimpy (he played last night because he had to, not because they wanted him to), so Castro at SS is again not unexpected. At least Castro is hitting #8. I like that Griffey and Dunn are hitting back-to-back in the #3-4 spots. Encarnacion at #5 is a big plus. I would consider Hamilton in the leadoff spot and Hatteberg hitting #6, but I also like Hatteberg's OBP near the top, at least until Hamilton gets a few more games under his belt.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:26 PM
50 years ago today (1957), a 6-2 loss at Philadelphia.

Johnny Temple 2b
Bob Thurman rf
Gus Bell cf
Frank Robinson lf
George Crowe 1b
Ed Bailey c
Don Hoak 3b
Roy McMillan ss
Don Gross p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:26 PM
45 years ago today (1962), a 4-2 loss at St. Louis.

Eddie Kasko ss
Marty Keough rf
Vada Pinson cf
Frank Robinson lf
Gordy Coleman 1b
Don Zimmer 3b
Johnny Edwards c
Don Blasingame 2b
Joey Jay p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:27 PM
40 years ago today (1967), a 3-2 win at home vs. San Francisco.

Floyd Robinson rf
Vada Pinson cf
Pete Rose lf
Tony Perez 3b
Deron Johnson 1b
Tommy Helms 2b
Johnny Edwards c
Leo Cardenas ss
Milt Pappas p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:27 PM
35 years ago today (1972), a 3-2 loss at New York.

Pete Rose lf
Joe Morgan 2b
Bobby Tolan cf
Johnny Bench c
Tony Perez 1b
Joe Hague rf
Julian Javier 3b
Dave Concepcion ss
Gary Nolan p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:27 PM
25 years ago today (1982), a 6-3 loss at home to the Mets.

Eddie Milner rf
Ron Oester 2b
Dave Concepcion ss
Dan Driessen 1b
Mike Vail lf
Cesar Cedeño cf
Johnny Bench 3b
Alex Treviño c
Frank Pastore p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:28 PM
20 years ago today (1987), a 5-2 win at home vs. Los Angeles.

Tracy Jones lf
Barry Larkin ss
Eric Davis cf
Dave Parker rf
Buddy Bell 3b
Nick Esasky 1b
Bo Diaz c
Dave Concepcion 2b
Ted Power p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:28 PM
15 years ago today (1992), a 5-4 win at Los Angeles.

Reggie Sanders cf
Billy Hatcher lf
Barry Larkin ss
Chris Sabo 3b
Darnell Coles 1b
Glenn Braggs rf
Troy Afenir c
Freddie Benavides 2b
Chris Hammond p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:28 PM
10 years ago today (1997), a 5-2 win at home vs. the Mets.

Curtis Goodwin cf
Lenny Harris lf
Terry Pendleton 3b
Willie Greene rf
Hal Morris 1b
Bret Boone 2b
Joe Oliver c
Pokey Reese ss
Brett Tomko p

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Five years ago today (2002), a 3-2 win at home vs. the Cardinals.

Barry Larkin ss
Sean Casey 1b
Ken Griffey Jr. cf
Austin Kearns rf
Adam Dunn lf
Aaron Boone 3b
Todd Walker 2b
Jason LaRue c
Jimmy Haynes p

dabvu2498
06-06-2007, 06:32 PM
10 years ago today (1997), a 5-2 win at home vs. the Mets.

Curtis Goodwin cf
Lenny Harris lf
Terry Pendleton 3b
Willie Greene rf
Hal Morris 1b
Bret Boone 2b
Joe Oliver c
Pokey Reese ss
Brett Tomko p

:runaway:

WVRedsFan
06-06-2007, 06:34 PM
Looks like we've success on June 6th in the past--none of them with Juan Castro in the lineup, btw.

Old people love Castro. I keep hearing senior citizens (one of which I am chronologically, but not mentally) say what a gentleman he is, what a great fielder he is, and what a clutch hitter he is. I keep wondering if they have not only lost their good sight, but their sense as well. IF he plays in the 7-8-9 part of the lineup, it makes that part of the lineup a gimme to the opposition in their own minds. Not good.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:37 PM
Looks like we've success on June 6th in the past.

It's D-Day, man! The good guys always win! :usa:

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 06:47 PM
Old people love Castro. I keep hearing senior citizens (one of which I am chronologically, but not mentally) say what a gentleman he is, what a great fielder he is, and what a clutch hitter he is. I keep wondering if they have not only lost their good sight, but their sense as well. IF he plays in the 7-8-9 part of the lineup, it makes that part of the lineup a gimme to the opposition in their own minds. Not good.

I'm not a senior citizen (I'm only 37), but here are my two cents on Juan Castro.

I think he probably is a gentleman, and I think he is a solid fielder (no longer great). I don't see him as a clutch hitter at all. Back in the 70's and 80's, teams had good-field, no-hit backup middle infielders like Castro on their bench all the time. The BRM had two of them (Darrel Chaney and Doug Flynn). But with a limited five-man bench, the Reds can no longer afford to carry a stick this weak. He was never that great in his prime, and his best days are in his rear view mirror. Jeff Keppinger (a righty-hitting Jeff Branson clone) would be a better fit on this team.

However, I think Castro would be a fine coach, particularly at the minor-league level, where he could help young Latino players adjust to life in small-town America.

Raisor
06-06-2007, 07:16 PM
Ummmmm, I should get a for this!

You SO know that I'm the one that first said that.

Stop drinking my Kool-aid.

Chip R
06-06-2007, 07:25 PM
Ummmmm, I should get a for this!


I think it's actually public domain.

edabbs44
06-06-2007, 07:32 PM
Grif and Dunn back 2 back? Is this Jerry's bizarro game?

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 07:38 PM
Grif and Dunn back 2 back? Is this Jerry's bizarro game?
Bet he's sweating worried about that late inning lefty who we have no chance against with our lefties in order ;)

cumberlandreds
06-06-2007, 07:53 PM
15 years ago today (1992), a 5-4 win at Los Angeles.

Reggie Sanders cf
Billy Hatcher lf
Barry Larkin ss
Chris Sabo 3b
Darnell Coles 1b
Glenn Braggs rf
Troy Afenir c
Freddie Benavides 2b
Chris Hammond p

Troy Afenir? I can honestly say I do not remember that name at all.
I've noticed Rose batting 3rd in the 1967's lineups. I would have never bet anyone he batted in the middle of order at all during his playing days.

Doc. Scott
06-06-2007, 08:02 PM
Afenir played all of sixteen games in a Reds uniform.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/afenitr01.shtml

Former first-rounder with Houston who bounced around the minors and majors for some time. After he appeared with the Reds, that was it for his big-league career.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:11 PM
Hatteberg grounds out to 2nd. 1 out.

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:12 PM
Thanks for the pbp. WKKI went out on me. :(

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:12 PM
Phillips grounds out to short. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:14 PM
Junior flies out to center. 0-0 mid 1st.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:17 PM
Eckstein fouls out to 1st. 1 out.

Cyclone792
06-06-2007, 08:19 PM
I've said this for a couple Arroyo starts now, and I'll keep saying it until something good happens ...

But I really hope Arroyo throws about seven easy innings tonight with a minimal pitch count while shutting the Cards down. Regardless of the outcome of the game, I hope we get some signs that Arroyo is in fact not injured and that his recent rough slide is a thing of the past.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:19 PM
Duncan with a broken bat ground out to short. Good play by Castro. 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 08:19 PM
Nice play by Castro...





Members now cringe. ;)

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:20 PM
Pujols grounds out to short. 0-0 after 1.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:22 PM
Dunn grounds out to 1st. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:23 PM
Edwin continues to hit well. A single to center.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:25 PM
Hamilton walks. 1st and 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:27 PM
Ross flies out to center. Encarnacion goes to 3rd. 1st and 3rd with 2 outs.

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Let's get some runs Reds. I agree we do need a great outing by Arroyo. Hopefully Mcbeth gets to pitch some tonight.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Castro grounds into a 6-4 fielder's choice. 0-0 mid 2nd.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Top of 2nd inning:

Dunn lines to 1B on first pitch. 1 out.
Encarnacion singles to center (1-1 count). Runner on first.
Hamilton walks (3-2 count). Runners on first and second.
Ross flies out to lt center (0-1 count). Runners on first and third. 2 outs.
Castro lines to SS, out at 2nd (1-0 count). 3 outs.

Middle of two: 0-0

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 08:29 PM
That bottom 3rd of the order would make the '62 Mets cry...or the '63,. 64, 65....

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:31 PM
Edmonds strikes out looking. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:32 PM
Rolen doubles to the left field corner.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:34 PM
Rolen easily steals 3rd.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:34 PM
J. Encarnacion hits a sac fly to right. 1-0 Cardinals.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Miles grounds out to short. Good play by Castro. 1-0 Cardinals after 2.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Bottom of 2nd inning:

(Arroyo got his hair cut)

Edmonds SO looking on three pitches (0-2 count). 1 out.
Rolen hits into LF corner, bounces over the wall for GR double (1-1 count). Runner on second.
Encarnacion sac fly to RF (1-1 count). Roland steals third on 1-1 count. 2 outs.
Miles to SS, to 1B (2-1 count). 3 outs.

After two: 1-0 Cardinals

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:38 PM
How has Arroyo looked on the Mound? Does he look like he has command of his pitches?

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:38 PM
Arroyo strikes out looking. 1 out.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 08:39 PM
:jump:

KittyDuran
06-06-2007, 08:39 PM
Hatte HR!

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:39 PM
Hatteberg homers off the foul pole in right. 1-1.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 08:44 PM
Top of third inning:

Arroyo SO looking, though he did swing on the 2nd pitch (0-2 count). 1 out.
Hatteberg HR (0-1 count)!!!!
Phillips to SS, but he drops it (0-1 count). Eckstein error; runner on first.
Griffey flies out to RF on first pitch. Runner still on first. 2 outs.
Dunn flies out to short ctr (2-1 count). 3 outs.

Middle of three: 1-1

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 08:47 PM
Top of third inning:

Arroyo SO looking, though he did swing on the 2nd pitch (0-2 count). 1 out.
Hatteberg HR (0-1 count)!!!!
Phillips to SS, but he drops it (0-1 count). Eckstein error; runner on first.
Griffey flies out to RF on first pitch. Runner still on first. 2 outs.
Dunn flies out to short ctr (2-1 count). 3 outs.

Middle of three: 1-1

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:49 PM
Back to back strikeouts for Arroyo and then a flyout ends the inning. 1-1 after 3.

BCubb2003
06-06-2007, 08:50 PM
The play-by-play posters are going to have to be quick, with these quick innings.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:50 PM
Through 3 innings Arroyo has looked good tonight. 33 pitches, 24 of them strikes.

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:51 PM
What is Arroyo's pitch count so far?

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:51 PM
Thanks Reds Fanatic.

CTA513
06-06-2007, 08:51 PM
Hatteberg homers off the foul pole in right. 1-1.

Thats the 9th homerun given up by Thompson in about 50 innings this year.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:53 PM
Encarnacion fouls out to 1st. 1 out.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 08:54 PM
Sorry; I had computer problems.

Top of third inning:

Arroyo SO looking, though he did swing on the 2nd pitch (0-2 count). 1 out.
Hatteberg HR (0-1 count)!!!!
Phillips to SS, but he drops it (0-1 count). Eckstein error; runner on first.
Griffey flies out to RF on first pitch. Runner still on first. 2 outs.
Dunn flies out to short ctr (2-1 count). 3 outs.

Middle of three: 1-1

I won't have the top of the fourth; will pick up again at the bottom of the inning.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:54 PM
Hamilton draws his 2nd walk of the night.

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the summaries TeamBoone.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 08:57 PM
Hamilton draws his 2nd walk of the night.

I wish all the guys had his approach.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the summaries TeamBoone.

You're welcome.

Are they helpful to others or am I wasting my time?

Heath
06-06-2007, 08:58 PM
Josh Hamilton is showing some plate discipline.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 08:58 PM
Ross grounds into a 6-4-3 DP. 1-1 mid 4th.

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 08:59 PM
You're welcome.

Are they helpful to others or am I wasting my time?

I like them! I'm buzzing in and out of the room (and thread) a lot.

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 08:59 PM
It helps me alot since can't get the radio links to work for me tonight. Hopefully others like the summaries as well.

Red in Chicago
06-06-2007, 09:02 PM
It helps me alot since can't get the radio links to work for me tonight. Hopefully others like the summaries as well.

radio is working for me...i couldn't take the cards announcers any longer

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:03 PM
Duncan doubles off the wall in right. Duncan now 6 for 11 lifetime vs. Arroyo.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:05 PM
Troy Afenir? I can honestly say I do not remember that name at all.
I've noticed Rose batting 3rd in the 1967's lineups. I would have never bet anyone he batted in the middle of order at all during his playing days.


Afenir played all of sixteen games in a Reds uniform.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/afenitr01.shtml

Former first-rounder with Houston who bounced around the minors and majors for some time. After he appeared with the Reds, that was it for his big-league career.

The Reds only had one legitimate catcher in 1992--Joe Oliver. Six catchers played for the Reds that season, but Oliver was the only one who played in more than 16 games. Lou rode him like a thoroughbred.

Joe Oliver: 143 games, 485 at bats
Troy Afenir: 16 games, 34 at bats
Jeff Reed: 15 games, 25 at bats
Dan Wilson: 12 games, 25 at bats
Rick Wrona: 11 games, 23 at bats
Scott Bradley: 5 games, 5 at bats

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:05 PM
Pujols pops out to 2nd. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:06 PM
Great diving play by Phillips. Runner goes to 3rd. 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:07 PM
Phillips will win a Gold Glove before too long

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:08 PM
You're welcome.

Are they helpful to others or am I wasting my time?

I find them helpful! :thumbup:

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:08 PM
Rolen strikes out swinging. 4 Ks for Arroyo. 1-1 after 4.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 09:09 PM
OK; then I'll continue.

Bottom of 4th inning:

Duncan doubles to RF wall (3-2 count). Runner on second.
Pujols pops up to first but Phillips stole it from Hatte (1-2 count). Runner still on second. 1 out.
Edmonds lines down FB line to a nice snag by Phillips who tosses to Hatte (0-1 count, I think). Runner on third. 2 outs.
Rolen DO swinging (2-2 count). 3 outs.

End of four: 1-1

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:09 PM
51 pitches for Arroyo, 36 of them strikes.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:11 PM
Castro!

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:12 PM
Castro lines a double to the left field corner.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Juan Castro--you can't stop him; you can only hope to contain him.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Good bunt by Bronson. He almost beat it out at 1st. 1 out. Runner at 3rd.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:14 PM
Hatteberg with a sac. fly to center. 2-1 Reds! 2 RBIs for Hatteberg tonight.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:14 PM
The Reds do the little things and get a run....


See? It can be done!

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:15 PM
Phillips singles to left.

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 09:15 PM
Good sac fly by the Hat.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:16 PM
Gonzo = Wally Pipp ;)

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:17 PM
Junior doubles to right center. 3-1 Reds!

RedFanAlways1966
06-06-2007, 09:17 PM
Junior doubles to RC on the hit-and-run. BP scores from 1st base. :)

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:17 PM
There's the Cards we've been needing to see

Gallen5862
06-06-2007, 09:17 PM
Let's go Reds. Let's get a big lead for Arroyo and the pen.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Let's go Reds. Let's get a big lead for Arroyo and the pen.

Is there a big enough lead for the pen? :devil:

RedFanAlways1966
06-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Gonzo = Wally Pipp ;)

2,129 consecutive games to go for Juan Castro. RZ will self-destruct! :eek:

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Good bunt by Bronson. He almost beat it out at 1st. 1 out. Runner at 3rd.

Arroyo runs well. I think the Reds should consider using him as a pinch-runner for the catcher in the late innings of games that he doesn't start.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:21 PM
Dunn doubles to right. 4-1 Reds!

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:21 PM
Dunner producing runs...

RedFanAlways1966
06-06-2007, 09:21 PM
Oh yeah... Dunn with a double to RF. Junior scores. 4-1, REDS.

guttle11
06-06-2007, 09:22 PM
Absolutely amazing AB from Dunn. He had Thompson right where he wanted him, and just waited for the slightest mistake.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:23 PM
See, Jerry? Hitting Griffey and Dunn back-to-back is a good thing! :thumbup:

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:24 PM
Encarnacion strikes out swinging. 4-1 Reds mid 5th.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 09:24 PM
Top of fifth inning:

Castro lines down third base line to LF corner, nice double (3-1 count). Runner on 2nd.
Arroyo bunts Castro to third; he almost made it to first (0-1 count). Runner on third. 1 out.
Hatteberg sacs Castro in on first pitch. 2 outs. 2-1 Reds.
Phillips base hit to left (0-1 count). Runner on first.
Griffey doubles into the alley (0-1 count). Phillips scores; runner on second. 3-1 Reds.
Dunn doubles down RF line (2-2 count); terrible second strike call; 8 pitch AB. Griffey scores; runner on second. 4-1 Reds.
Back to back lefties... not a problem!
Encarnacion SO swinging (2-2 count).

Middle of five: 4-1 Reds. Wooooo Hooooo!

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:27 PM
J. Encarnacion singles to center.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:30 PM
Miles grounds out to 2nd. Runner goes to 2nd. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:31 PM
Stinnett singles to left. 4-2 Reds.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:34 PM
Thompson sacrifices the runner to 2nd. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:35 PM
Eckstein doubles to left over Dunn's glove. 4-3 Reds.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:35 PM
Dunn...wow...what a horrible outfielder...


It's getting old.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:36 PM
That was not a particularly well-played ball in LF.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:36 PM
Duncan grounds out to 1st. 4-3 Reds after 5.

Now 77 pitches with 52 strikes for Arroyo.

Heath
06-06-2007, 09:37 PM
Whoopsies by Dunn.

Chris Welsh made a good point. (faint) Any ball pitched up to Eckstein is begging to be drilled.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 09:38 PM
Bottom of 5th inning:

Encarnacion base hit to center (3-2 count). Runner on first.
Miles FC to first (3-2 count). Arroyo goes from 3-0 to full count. Runner on second. 1 out.
Stinnett drives hard to LF off Dunn's glove (1-1 count). Miles scores; runner on first. 4-2 Reds.
Thompson bunts runner to second (1-2 count). Runner on second. 2 outs.
Eckstein doubles to LF over Dunn's head (1-1 count). Stinnett scores; runner on second. 4-3 Reds (they're creeping up).
grounds to first. 3 outs.

After five: 4-3 Reds

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:38 PM
Dunn...wow...what a horrible outfielder...


It's getting old.

Some people complain when Dunn is lifted in the late innings for a defensive replacement (i.e., Hopper or Wise), but it's plays like that which show why it is necessary.

Now I do think that whether Dunn is due to bat in the next inning should weigh into the decision.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:39 PM
Some people complain when Dunn is lifted in the late innings for a defensive replacement (i.e., Hopper or Wise), but it's plays like that which show why it is necessary.

Now I do think that whether Dunn is due to bat in the next inning show weigh into the decision.

I agree

I agree

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:39 PM
Hamilton flies out to left on the 1st pitch. 1 out.

Heath
06-06-2007, 09:40 PM
Rats. I was hoping for more than a one-pitch AB for Hamilton.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:40 PM
Ross grounds out to short on the 1st pitch. Way to make Thompson work after a long inning.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:40 PM
2 pitches...2 outs.

Way to be guys, way to be.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:41 PM
Juan Castro--you can't stop him; you can only hope to contain him.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:41 PM
Patience

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:41 PM
Castro lines a double to the wall in right. What has gotten into Castro tonight.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:42 PM
Castro loves Busch stadium, trade him to the Cards

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:42 PM
Castro's at-bat was the only good one in the entire inning.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 09:42 PM
Top of 6th inning:

Hamilton flies out down LF line on first pitch. 1 out.
Ross grounds to SS on first pitch. 2 outs.
Castro doubles to RF warning track (2-0 count); he's 2 for 3! Runner on second.
Arroyo flies out to CF on first pitch. 3 outs.
(Johnson warming in the pen)

Middle of six: 4-3 Reds

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:42 PM
Arroyo flies out to center on the 1st pitch. 4-3 Reds mid 6th.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:46 PM
Pujols lines out to right. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:48 PM
Edmonds walks.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 09:50 PM
time to get Arroyo

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:50 PM
Now Arroyo can't throw strikes...

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:51 PM
Rolen singles to right on the hit and run. 1st and 3rd. Would have been an easy DP if Edmonds was not running.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:52 PM
That's how you do it, right there

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:52 PM
Bronson's laboring.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:53 PM
J. Encarnacion fouls out to 1st. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:54 PM
Bronson's laboring.
Arroyo is consistently getting behind in the count now.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:54 PM
This should be his last inning provided he escapes

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:55 PM
Bronson Arroyo is still messed up....ever since Narron let him go 129 pitches in San Diego....he has not been the same pitcher....

Some may argue the league has caught up to him....I'm not buying that, at least not to the degree of what we've seen recently, because his breaking pitches aren't breaking and his command is out of whack, which is NOT Bronson Arroyo....if all that was still in place, and he was still getting hit like this, then maybe you could say that.

He's been a bit better tonight, he's battled, and has kept the Reds in the game (and would get the win if it ended here) but he's still not right...

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 09:55 PM
Bottom of 6th inning:

Pujols flies out to RF (3-2 count). He's 0 for 3. 1 out.
Edmonds BB (3-2 count). Runner on first.
Rolen singles past Phillips (3-2 count). Hmmmmm, Arroyo! Lots of balls this inning. Runners on first and third.
Encarnacion pops up to Hatte in foul territory (2-2 count). 2 outs.
Miles flies out to LF (1-1 count). 3 outs.

Bottom of six: 4-3 Reds

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:55 PM
Miles lines out to left. 4-3 Reds after 6.

CTA513
06-06-2007, 09:55 PM
Arroyo has now walked 29 batters in just under 80 innings.

BCubb2003
06-06-2007, 09:55 PM
It's Stanton time...

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:55 PM
That is 103 pitches for Arroyo that should be it for tonight but with Narron you never know.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 09:57 PM
Bronson really got away with a bad pitch to Encarnacion

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:57 PM
Tyler Johnson in to pitch.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 09:57 PM
He's been a bit better tonight, but he's still not right.

How much is tonights improvement the fact that he's facing the "mighty" Cards lineup?

Maybe we'll see McBeth tonight....

Nah :D

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 09:57 PM
Whew! I have to admit that I held my breath when Miles hit the ball to LF. Nice recovery by Bronson.

Reds Fanatic, I just want to thank you for doing PBP. I filled in and did PBP for agame last weekend--it's not easy! (I'm better suited for color commentary! ;) )

Also, a big thank-you to Team Boone for the excellent summaries!

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 09:58 PM
How much is tonights improvement the fact that he's facing the "mighty" Cards lineup?



That may have something to do with it, but you pitch to whom is on the schedule...

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:58 PM
Hatteberg grounds out to 2nd. 1 out.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 09:58 PM
Bronson Arroyo is still messed up....ever since Narron let him go 129 pitches in San Diego....he has not been the same pitcher....
. his velocity is down ~5 mph, as it has been since that start

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 09:59 PM
Phillips swings at the 1st pitch and grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:00 PM
his velocity is down ~5 mph, as it has been since that start

Another indicator...I didn't even think to check that one out.

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 10:01 PM
Top of 7th inning:

Johnson in for Thompson.

Hatteberg grounds to second baseman, toss to first (2-1 count). 1 out.
Phillips grounds to third on first pitch. 2 outs.
Griffey hits it hard to third (1-2 count). 3 outs.

Middle of seven: 4-3 Reds


You're welcome, Klu.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:01 PM
Junior grounds out to 3rd. 4-3 Reds mid 7th.

KoryMac5
06-06-2007, 10:01 PM
If you played a drinking game based on the Reds hitters swinging at the first pitch I would be loaded by the 2nd inning.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:01 PM
He's been a bit better tonight, he's battled, and has kept the Reds in the game (and would get the win if it ended here) but he's still not right...


How much is tonights improvement the fact that he's facing the "mighty" Cards lineup?


Arroyo is also pitching on five days of rest, instead of the usual four (due to the off day on Monday).

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:03 PM
Arroyo still in the game. Narron is a moron.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:03 PM
Arroyo to, at least, start the 7th

Cyclone792
06-06-2007, 10:03 PM
Arroyo's out there again and starting the inning with 103 pitches. Given the workload Arroyo went through in early May, then his subsequent shellings, this looms as a serious mistake.

Jerry Narron just won't ever learn, will he?

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:03 PM
Stinnett flies out to center.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:04 PM
Dang! Hamilton has closing speed!

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:04 PM
Arroyo is also pitching on five days of rest, instead of the usual four (due to the off day on Monday).

IMO he needs to skip a start and get 7+ days off.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:04 PM
:rant: :rant2: :rant: :rant2:

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:04 PM
Just keep running that arm into the ground Jerry.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:04 PM
Ludwick with a pinch hit homer to left. Tie game 4-4.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
That is what you get when you are on your 108th pitch of the night.

jesusfan
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
great, that 4-1 lead is long gone...

CTA513
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
:laugh:

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
IMO he needs to skip a start and get 7+ days off.

I absolutely agree. He needs to skip his next start. This season's gone, straight down the crapper. Might as well salvage Arroyo as best you can.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Narron is just clueless.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Eckstein singles to right.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Thom: "Jerry just standing in the dugout with a look....well, he's perplexed."

CTA513
06-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Don't worry Stanton is getting ready to save the day.

Cyclone792
06-06-2007, 10:07 PM
How high will Arroyo's pitch count go?

Is another 120+ pitch outing going in the books for Bronson? He's knocking on the door right now.

Heath
06-06-2007, 10:07 PM
Thom: "Jerry just standing in the dugout with a look....well, he's perplexed."

Like, damn I'm stupid.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:07 PM
This smells like last night.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:07 PM
IMO he needs to skip a start and get 7+ days off.

Not a bad idea.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:07 PM
This is what scares me about Narron managing Homer. 111 pitches now for Arroyo.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:08 PM
I've said it time and time again how I'm not a big "pitch count guy"...but you have to use common sense.

If he's cruising without a problem, I don't have a problem keeping a guy in with a higher pitch count....when you're struggling, laboring, battling hard....take him out, save his arm.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:08 PM
Duncan strikes out looking. 2 outs.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
Tim McClelland fakes out George Grande on the called third strike.

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
You know, at some point, the team's going to want to win a ballgame--just for the sake of maintaining some semblance of dignity. Not because they think it matters in the standings, but because you'd like to hold your head up for one day out of seven.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
This is what scares me about Narron managing Homer. 111 pitches now for Arroyo.

I think he'll be smarter with Homer...I remember him keeping Belisle at a rather strict count earlier in the year since he wasn't used to being in the rotation, and I think he did that for Livingston as well...moreso in his first start....but I don't think Livingston's count was crazy in his second either.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
I've said it time and time again how I'm not a big "pitch count guy"...but you have to use common sense.

If he's cruising without a problem, I don't have a problem keeping a guy in with a higher pitch count....when you're struggling, laboring, battling hard....take him out, save his arm.

I agree.

jesusfan
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
####!

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
2 run homer for Pujols. 6-4 Cards. Thanks Jerry. That was pitch 119.

Red in Chicago
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
who didn't see that coming:eek:

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:09 PM
Bronson closing in on 120

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:10 PM
A day late and a dollar short, Jerry.

jesusfan
06-06-2007, 10:10 PM
I do not even want to watch the freaking reds, so im done!

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:10 PM
Ok, NOW Take him out...

pedro
06-06-2007, 10:10 PM
Narron really is an idjit.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:10 PM
Narron, the shoe to the groin the keeps on kicking

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:11 PM
For the love of diet coke get him out of there!!!

Red in Chicago
06-06-2007, 10:11 PM
i can't wait for cyclone's updated stats on arroyo now:bang:

Cyclone792
06-06-2007, 10:11 PM
Has anybody ever heard the sound of a prized right arm and $30 million going down the toilet?

With Jerry Narron being Jerry Narron, we could very well be hearing that sound already.

CTA513
06-06-2007, 10:12 PM
Will McBeth get a chance to pitch in this game or do they need to be up or down by at least 20 runs?

BCubb2003
06-06-2007, 10:12 PM
I think Narron must feel that if the starter can't get through 7, they aren't going win anyway.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:12 PM
Earlier in the year, I felt that this season had a 1993 feel to it. It's starting to feel more like 1982-83.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:13 PM
Stanton... as McBeth....WHO IS FRESH AND HASN'T BEEN USED sits.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:13 PM
Stanton in to pitch.

Edmonds singles to left.

SteelSD
06-06-2007, 10:13 PM
Bronson Arroyo ERA now at 5.01.

Apparently, the new organizational philosophy on starting pitching is "Sign 'em and Burn 'em".

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:13 PM
Will McBeth get a chance to pitch in this game or do they need to be up or down by at least 20 runs?I really have no idea ... and Jerry doesn't either

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:13 PM
Will McBeth get a chance to pitch in this game or do they need to be up or down by at least 20 runs?

We need to send a search party out to find McBeth.

Red in Chicago
06-06-2007, 10:14 PM
narron out with the pitching change:laugh::laugh:

todd coming in:laugh::laugh:

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:14 PM
Dear Wayne,
Please stop Jerry from ruining one of those pitchers you gave a boatload of money to.

Love,Krono

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:14 PM
I'm really running out of things to say -- and there's still a lot of baseball left this year.


I'll be all alone by the end of the season ;)

Heath
06-06-2007, 10:14 PM
Marcus McBeth needs to be 39 years old and a left-hander.

Or Gary Majewski.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:14 PM
That was a 1 pitch outing for Stanton. Coffey in to pitch.

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Earlier in the year, I felt that this season had a 1993 feel to it. It's starting to feel more like 1982-83.

This team is so bad they're no longer the punchline to jokes.

And I absolutely do not believe that it is darkest before the dawn. Just ask the Pirates, the Nats, the D-Rays, the Royals, the Rockies.... For so many teams, tomorrow never arrives.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Bronson Arroyo ERA now at 5.01.

Apparently, the new organizational philosophy on starting pitching is "Sign 'em and Burn 'em".It's what happen when you have a GM that can't build a pen and combine that with a clueless manager

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:15 PM
I've said it time and time again how I'm not a big "pitch count guy"...but you have to use common sense.

If he's cruising without a problem, I don't have a problem keeping a guy in with a higher pitch count....when you're struggling, laboring, battling hard....take him out, save his arm.

Another reason to take Arroyo out before the inning started is to allow him to build on a positive performance.

jesusfan
06-06-2007, 10:16 PM
I did a search for Mike Stanton on Google and found this:

http://www.wcel.org/4976/20/gascan.gif

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:16 PM
Another reason to take Arroyo out before the inning started is to allow him to build on a positive performance.

I should add to my post....


....and save his confidence

jesusfan
06-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Rolen flies to the track in center...

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Bottom of 7th inning:

Stanton warming.

Stinnett flies out to CF (1-2 count). 1 out.
Ludwig (PH for Johnson) HR into LF stands on first pitch. 4-4 TIE BALL GAME
Eckstein singles into RF (0-1 count). Runner on first.
Duncan SO looking (2-2 count). 2 outs.
Pujols 2-run homer, immediately after Welsh jinxed it by saying "Puhols says he's coming along but he's not quite there yet" (1-2 count). 6-4 Cardinals

Arroyo out of the game; Stanton in. Crap. The guy's never going to get a win.

Edmonds singles into short left on first pitch. Runner on first.

Narron takes a trip to the mound. Stanton out; Coffey in.

Rolen flies out to center (1-1 count). He's 2 for 3 so far. 3 outs.

End of seven: 6-4 Cards

Heath
06-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Looks like Todd Coffey's lost some weight.

Ok offense.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Rolen flies out to center. 6-4 Cards after 7.

edabbs44
06-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Has anybody ever heard the sound of a prized right arm and $30 million going down the toilet?

With Jerry Narron being Jerry Narron, we could very well be hearing that sound already.

Wayne had no reason to give him that extension.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:18 PM
Part of the issue is that WK paid some guys(Arroyo and Ross) for career seasons. Probably the most important job of a GM is accurately assessing your own talent (the secret to Schuerholz).

TeamBoone
06-06-2007, 10:18 PM
Arroyo's out there again and starting the inning with 103 pitches. Given the workload Arroyo went through in early May, then his subsequent shellings, this looms as a serious mistake.

Jerry Narron just won't ever learn, will he?

Welsh defended it saying Arroyo's short outings the last three games should allow him to pitch longer in this one.

CTA513
06-06-2007, 10:18 PM
I hope Bailey doesn't get left in the game to throw 115+ pitches in the 7th.

HotCorner
06-06-2007, 10:18 PM
"An APB has been issued for Marcus McBeth. He is reportedly in St. Louis as a member of the Cincinnati Reds bullpen but his presence can not be verified. If you see him, please send him to the mound."

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:19 PM
Randy Flores in to pitch.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:19 PM
Welsh defended it saying Arroyo's short outings the last three games should allow him to pitch longer in this one.
Welsh is wrong here IMO.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:20 PM
Wayne had no reason to give him that extension.none whatsoever. He turned a bargain for two more years into a risk.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:20 PM
Bottom of 7th inning:

Stanton warming.

Stinnett flies out to CF (1-2 count). 1 out.
Ludwig (PH for Johnson) HR into LF stands on first pitch. 4-4 TIE BALL GAME
Eckstein singles into RF (0-1 count). Runner on first.
Duncan SO looking (2-2 count). 2 outs.
Pujols 2-run homer, immediately after Welsh jinxed it by saying "Puhols says he's coming along but he's not quite there yet" (1-2 count). 6-4 Cardinals

Arroyo out of the game; Stanton in. Crap. The guy's never going to get a win.

Edmonds singles into short left on first pitch. Runner on first.

Narron takes a trip to the mound. Stanton out; Coffey in.

Rolen flies out to center (1-1 count). He's 2 for 3 so far. 3 outs.

End of seven: 6-4 Cards

The 8th arrived one inning early.

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:20 PM
none whatsoever. He turned a bargain for two more years into a risk.

A risk his manager seems determined to make worse.

Red in Chicago
06-06-2007, 10:20 PM
what a horrible three week stint by ba...unbelieveable

Heath
06-06-2007, 10:21 PM
Part of the issue is that WK paid some guys(Arroyo and Ross) for career seasons. Probably the most important job of a GM is accurately assessing your own talent (the secret to Schuerholz).

Yeah, and how many Scherholz's are there out there?

Last time I checked there's one.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:21 PM
Dunn flies out to center. 1 out.

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:22 PM
McBeth is warming up....


I may faint

KronoRed
06-06-2007, 10:22 PM
Lets get some runs, the Cards pen is just as bad.

Heath
06-06-2007, 10:23 PM
Lets get some runs, the Cards pen is just as bad.

No doubt about that.

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 10:23 PM
Lets get some runs, the Cards pen is just as bad.

No it's not.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:23 PM
The wind appears to be out of the Reds' sails.

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:24 PM
Edwin strikes out looking. 2 outs.

flyer85
06-06-2007, 10:24 PM
Yeah, and how many Scherholz's are there out there?

Last time I checked there's one.not the point. And Beane does a really good job as well

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:25 PM
Hamilton singles to left.

jesusfan
06-06-2007, 10:25 PM
Welsh- "If the reds were able to close out half the games they have blown they would be a whole lot better." wow, master-o-obvious...

Matt700wlw
06-06-2007, 10:25 PM
Hamilton....1-2 and 2 walks today.


That's pretty good!

Reds Fanatic
06-06-2007, 10:25 PM
Pitching change.

Falls City Beer
06-06-2007, 10:25 PM
There are a number of ways to win in baseball (be it Schuerholz, Beane, whoever).

Heath
06-06-2007, 10:26 PM
Nice job by Hamilton taking what Flores gives him.

Ryan Franklin vs. David Ross. Be still my heart.

Big Klu
06-06-2007, 10:27 PM
Hamilton....1-2 and 2 walks today.


That's pretty good!

I wouldn't mind seeing him in the leadoff spot, though Hatteberg has done a nice job, too.