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WMR
06-06-2007, 06:51 PM
Has anyone been following this deal?

She pulled out of a tournament hosted by Annika Sorenstam with an "injury" because she was within 2 strokes of 88 (passing 88 w/o being a full-time LPGA player, which she is not, results in being banned from LPGA competition for the rest of the year).

2 days later she is out on the green blasting balls all over the place.

Sorenstam basically called her out on this and has requested an apology.

Wie says she has nothing to apologize for.

Her career has been mismanaged by her parents in just about every way imaginable.

dabvu2498
06-06-2007, 07:10 PM
I read an article the other day that really rubbed me the wrong way. In it, Wie says she injured her wrist while running. Saying something to the effect of "I don't run. Anyone who knows me knows I can't run."

This I can tell you because I saw it with my own two eyes: Michelle Wie runs.

A couple years ago Shaker Run GC in Lebanon hosted the USGA Mid-Am. Wie played in it. That same week, I had some friends from out of town staying at the Marriott on Union Centre in West Chester. I went down to pick them up for some dinner and walking back from the elevator, there was Michelle Wie, running on the treadmill in the hotel fitness center.

So when I read that she doesn't run and people who know her know she doesn't run, I became more skeptical than I already was.

paintmered
06-06-2007, 07:20 PM
Her career has been mismanaged by her parents in just about every way imaginable.

Yep. And the ironic thing is there is an influx of young talent on the LPGA tour right now without her. If Wie was allowed to follow a traditional career progression, she'd be at the top of the list. But as it is, young players like Ochoa, Pressel and Lincicome have passed her by.

LoganBuck
06-06-2007, 10:58 PM
Is she the highest paid female athlete in the world? Mike and Mike have been running some numbers on the highest paid athletes over the last week. I think she raked in $22 million last year and did nothing.

MWM
06-07-2007, 12:37 AM
I was going to post this from ESPN today, but this thread is a good place. I thought it was a really interesting read. If she's not careful, she's going to wind up being the female golf equivalent of Todd Marinovich. I'm not sure she was ever mentally ready for what she attempted to do. I just hope she doesn't find herself in a situation where she just can't recover mentally. I hope she doesn't wash out, because she's as talented a female golfer as there's ever been. I'd hate to see her blow because of lack of patience.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/columns/story?columnist=sirak_ron&id=2895119


HAVRE DE GRACE, MD. -- When Tiger Woods left the amateur ranks in August 1996 and sauntered onto the PGA Tour with a gazillion Nike dollars in his pockets, there was more than a little jealousy and resentment from veteran players. Despite his glittering amateur record, many wondered why an unproven 20-year-old would be rewarded so handsomely before proving himself as a pro. But Tiger did two things to shut his critics up: He won, and he embraced his tour.

Woods was victorious in the fifth event in which he played as a professional and by the following April, when he steamrolled the Masters by 12 strokes, he was unquestionably the best player in the world. That Masters also got a 14.1 TV rating -- the highest golf rating since the cable era began more than a quarter century ago -- and within a month of Tiger slipping into the green jacket the tour had negotiated a new TV contract that increased purses by nearly 40 percent.

Two notions suddenly rattled home in the heads of the players. This Tiger Woods guy is a very good golfer; perhaps unlike anything we have ever seen. And he is going to make us all rich. That's exactly what has happened. The first decade of the Tiger Woods Era has seen PGA Tour purses triple. A tour that didn't have its first $1 million season earner until the mid-1980s had nearly 90 last year. End of jealousy. End of resentment.

In Michelle Wie the LPGA has a special talent that could lead it to new riches as well. The difference is Wie is holding the tour and its players at arm's length while she rakes in the dough with the other arm. Refusing to join the tour and insisting on flaunting the rules has angered both players and LPGA officials. It is perceived as a sense of entitlement out of proportion to achievement. But all that could be fixed very easily. Join the LPGA. If Wie embraces the women's tour the women's tour will embrace her.

Wie has big dreams. She wants to play against the men. And those dreams should be encouraged. But they need to be pursued within a sensible time frame. And her recent endeavors in men's events scream out that a 17-year-old girl is prepared neither physically nor emotionally to compete against the best players in the world. Perhaps that day will come, but it is not now.

Wie starts college at Stanford in September and that seems to be a perfect opportunity for Team Wie to say it will put competing against the men on a back burner until after school. Remember, Wie will still only be 21 years old when she graduates. Presumably she will be physically stronger and probably more emotionally mature. Certainly, her 6-foot-2 frame and superb ball-striking ability are not going to go away. There will be plenty of time to pursue her dream. Meantime, she can join the LPGA and play the required 10 events a year.


AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar

Wie's game has taken her all over the world. But she's making few friends on the LPGA Tour.
Over the last two weeks -- first at the Ginn Tribute and then this week at the McDonald's LPGA Championship -- the fragile peace between Wie and the members of the LPGA has appeared frayed at the edge. More and more players are coming closer to voicing publicly what they have been saying privately for a while now: Wie is in it for herself and has no interest in growing the game, especially in growing the LPGA.
When Wie withdrew with two holes to play in the first round of the Ginn Tribute virtually no player believed it was because of an injury, as she said. The overwhelming consensus was that she walked off the course rather than risk being suspended from tour play for the rest of the year for failing to break 88 in a competitive round. Salt was poured in that wound when she showed up two days later practicing at Bulle Rock, where the McDonald's is being played this week.

The festering resentment also took a turn for the worse when, for the second week in a row, Wie's pro-am partners complained that she was less than friendly during a round each of the four players has paid thousands of dollars to play. It is a charge Wie denies. And on Tuesday at Bulle Rock an LPGA rules official triggered anger in the Wie camp when he enforced a tour rule that says only the caddie and coach are allowed to be on the practice range with the player, booting the rest of the Wie entourage off the range.

The resentment is also building over the fact that at the second LPGA major of the year -- and, ironically the flagship event of the tour, the LPGA Championship -- attention is being diverted away from the tournament and directed at one player who is not even a member of the tour. The tragedy of this occurrence is that the LPGA quite likely has at this moment the best product it has ever put into competition.

The strengths of the LPGA continue to grow. Its international membership gives it worldwide appeal -- more than two dozen nations are represented on tour. At the same time young American stars are emerging in impressive numbers. Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel, Brittany Lincicome, Stacy Prammanasudh, Nicole Castrale and Meaghan Francella have all won this year. And they are all between the ages of 18 and 28. In Lorena Ochoa the tour has an extremely talented and likeable No. 1 player. And then there is Annika Sorenstam, who has staked a claim to being the greatest player ever and is returning to competition from the only significant injury of her career.

What needs to happen this week at Bulle Rock is for the attention to turn back to golf. Here are the questions that should grab our attention: Can Ochoa get her first major? Is Sorenstam healthy again? Will Pressel add the McDonald's to the Kraft Nabisco Championship she won in April? What about Creamer, Lincicome, Cristie Kerr, Suzann Pettersen, Juli Inkster, Ai Miyazato, Jee Young Lee, Karrie Webb and a host of other great story lines? What about Se Ri Pak officially qualifying for the LPGA Hall of Fame when she hits her first tee shot this week?

And yes, what about Wie? Can she return to the form that saw her contend in three of the four LPGA majors last year? Are her problems physical, with the injured wrist; technical, with a swing that has become out of tempo and erratic; or emotional, with a shattered confidence after nearly four years without a victory in an event of any kind?

The best way for this week to end would be for Wie to play well and then announce she is joining the LPGA Tour. It would be not only the wise thing to do competitively but would also be a gesture that would give LPGA officials and sponsors such as McDonald's the respect they deserve. Most importantly, it would give the members of the LPGA -- the players -- the respect they have earned. They are a smart and generous lot. If Wie embraces the LPGA, the LPGA will embrace her. Right now an enormous gap exists between the two. But it's nothing that can't be bridged if Wie wants to make a commitment to women's golf.

Ron Sirak is the executive editor of Golf World magazine.

WMR
06-07-2007, 12:49 AM
Nice article. Thanks for posting that, MWM.

Redhook
06-07-2007, 01:18 AM
Michelle Wie is a disaster right now. It's a shame because a few years ago she was probably the best prodigy ever in any sport. Now, she's a confused mess with no home on any tour. I have no clue whatsoever what she's trying to do competing against the men. It was a fun novelty at first, but now, it's just embarassing.

This whole thing about Wie shooting 88 and not being allowed to compete anymore is hogwash. She probably withdrew knowing the rule, or from the instruction of her agent, but there is no way the LPGA would keep her from playing the rest of the events this year. That rule is made for hackers so the regular tour players don't have to deal with 90 shooters each week. Wie is a top 5 player in the world. She has many top 5's in majors. One bad round would not keep her out for the rest of the year. The tour DEFINITELY would've made an exception for her.

I've seen Wie up close quite a few times. She's pretty good. Really good for a woman, ok for competing against men. Some of you may know that I played professionally for 6 years and caddied full-time on the LPGA tour in 2005 for Young Jo and Angela Stanford. I saw Wie up close many times. She's very good, but in no way shape or form can she compete against men full-time. No chance. Never. Ever.

Like I've said, I've played professionally for 6 years on the likes of the Canadian Tour, Hooters Tour, Nationwide Tour etc. I've also played a PGA event. I'm not the player I once was, but I can still play a bit. That being said, I would absolutely dominate Michelle Wie all day long from the same set of tees whether it's the women's tees or the championship tees. And I'm just a club pro now. I can't even compete with the guys on tour now and that's what Wie is trying to do. It's really getting ridiculous. She's so good, but she and her family are flushing her career down the toilet. She needs to focus solely on LPGA events for the rest of her career. She's still probably a top 4 or 5 woman in the world. The problem is people don't know it because she's rarely competing against women.

Highlifeman21
06-07-2007, 09:21 AM
Michelle Wie is a joke.

She should definitely be playing at the Amateur ranks still, and working on her game against top Juniors, rather than the best women in the world. While she does have all-world talent, it's still raw and she's definitely a work in progress.

She needs to stop playing with the men, first and foremost. I understand everytime she tees it up in a men's event, it's an attendance circus act, nothing more, but she's hurting her game by playing with the men.

She's become such a fiasco that her coach, the legendary David Leadbetter, has suggested numerous times that she should focus on utilizing her sponsor exemptions due to the fact she's still too young to play full time on the LPGA.

Bottomline, she has talent, but she's just wasting it, and making a mockery of women's professional golf.

Show some respect Michelle, and lay low for awhile.

bucksfan2
06-07-2007, 09:53 AM
Michelle Wie is a disaster right now. It's a shame because a few years ago she was probably the best prodigy ever in any sport. Now, she's a confused mess with no home on any tour. I have no clue whatsoever what she's trying to do competing against the men. It was a fun novelty at first, but now, it's just embarassing.


At Wie's age Tiger had already won 3 US Jr. Amatures and was well on his way to winning 3 US Amatures so I would say that Woods was twice the prodigy that Wie was. The problem with Wie is that she doesn't know how to win. She has never beaten anyone and never won at a high level. I think as of right now and the young, attractive, talent that the LPGA has they don't need Wie as much as they thought they would have 3 years ago. Wie needs to take a step back and learn how to win before she tries again on any professional tour.

Redhook
06-07-2007, 11:26 AM
She should definitely be playing at the Amateur ranks still, and working on her game against top Juniors, rather than the best women in the world. While she does have all-world talent, it's still raw and she's definitely a work in progress.

Bottomline, she has talent, but she's just wasting it, and making a mockery of women's professional golf.

Show some respect Michelle, and lay low for awhile.

I agree and I respectfully disagree.

I agree with just about everything you said, but she can and should be playing against the best women in the world. Since 2005, she has 9, count 'em, 9 top 5 finishes in LPGA events. That's ridiculous. And that's in 14 events. That's a phenomenal top 5 percentage rate. And a few of those are in majors.

Wie is struggling right now and needs to get back on track, but she's well beyond the point that she needs to play against juniors or amateurs. She is still a top 5 woman in the world, when healthy of course.

Redhook
06-07-2007, 11:51 AM
At Wie's age Tiger had already won 3 US Jr. Amatures and was well on his way to winning 3 US Amatures so I would say that Woods was twice the prodigy that Wie was.

Tiger won his 3rd US Jr. at 17. Very impressive. And he was on his way to winning 3 Amateurs. Very impressive. Tiger's final junior/amateur record will be better than Wie's. But, Tiger was doing that against juniors and amateurs. Look at Wie's record against the best women in the world over the last few years. Wie came in 4th in a major championship at the old age of 14. Think about that for a second......Tiger won his first US Jr. at 15, but Wie came in 4th in a major at the age of 14. I can hardly comprehend that.


The problem with Wie is that she doesn't know how to win. She has never beaten anyone and never won at a high level.

Never? To say she doesn't know how to win or has never beaten anyone at a high level is comical.

She was the youngest woman ever to win the US amateur Publinx at the age of 13. 13. She's won plenty of of junior tournaments. She's hasn't won on the LPGA tour, yet, but she's been really close. Like I've said before, she has 9 top 5 finishes in LPGA events in the last 2 years, including 4 second place finishes. I know she hasn't won, but that record is awesome. Think of all the high-caliber LPGA players she's beaten in those tournaments at the age of 15 and 16. She shot 15 under in one of those tournaments and still didn't win. Sometimes you can play great, but you can still get beat by someone who played better. Maybe, if she played more amateur tournaments she could've won one of those LPGA events. Maybe not though. No one knows.

I do think she's made some big errors in her career. Playing against the men is just stupid. I didn't mind it at first because she qualified. Now, it's just a publicity circus.


I think as of right now and the young, attractive, talent that the LPGA has they don't need Wie as much as they thought they would have 3 years ago. Wie needs to take a step back and learn how to win before she tries again on any professional tour.

The LPGA tour is in good shape, but it would/will be in great shape if/when Wie joins the tour full-time. She's still a HUGE draw and a great player. She doesn't need to learn how to win. She's won before. She just needs to play more tournaments against women. She'll learn from her experiences in the final groups and will break through soon enough.

People need to realize how young Wie is still. She's 17. Tiger hadn't even made a cut in PGA event at that age. Wie has double digit top 5 finishes in LPGA events at the same age.

At this age, 17, Wie's record blows Tigers' out of the water. There's really no comparison. And that's coming from a big Tiger fan.

Johnny Footstool
06-07-2007, 12:41 PM
Certainly, her 6-foot-2 frame and superb ball-striking ability are not going to go away.

Heh heh

http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/images/beavis-butthead.jpeg

Blimpie
06-07-2007, 02:03 PM
Is she the highest paid female athlete in the world? Mike and Mike have been running some numbers on the highest paid athletes over the last week. I think she raked in $22 million last year and did nothing.Sounds like Anna Kournikova in spikes to me....

WMR
06-07-2007, 02:12 PM
NO BLIMPIE, I'm NOT going to post Anna Kournikova pictures!! :laugh:

flyer85
06-07-2007, 03:11 PM
Her career has been mismanaged by her parents in just about every way imaginable.They have never let her learn how to win ... and that is painfully obvious whenever she gets in contention on Sunday.

Hoosier Red
06-07-2007, 03:21 PM
Somewhat analagous to Michelle Wie is the Williams sisters in Tennis.
Everybody thought they would be a joke with their very raw games and little tournament experience. People thought they "wouldn't know how to win"

But they took their unorthodox tennis games and became for a time the top two players in the world, and it wasn't close.

Of course another parallel is Jennifer Capriati who was a prodigy before crashing and burning for 10 years before coming back.

flyer85
06-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Somewhat analagous to Michelle Wie is the Williams sisters in Tennis.
Everybody thought they would be a joke with their very raw games and little tournament experience. People thought they "wouldn't know how to win"The analogy is OK, but doesn't hold up because the main reason Richard Williams said he didn't want them in the USTA program was he didn't want them to learn the defensive style of baseline tennis that it tended to produce. Williams wanted them to learn an attacking style while not have to be concerned by the result. Also they really had no competition, unlike Wie who could have really benefited from learning to play and win against older players like Pressel, Creamer, Lincicome, etc.

Wie hasn't learned how to control her focus and emotions and win on Sunday and it is painfully obvious because she has been in contention numerous times only to melt under the pressure.

Blimpie
06-07-2007, 04:00 PM
NO BLIMPIE, I'm NOT going to post Anna Kournikova pictures!! :laugh:Sounds like somebody has been reading their "stickies"...

Oh, well.... It was worth a try.

flyer85
06-07-2007, 05:15 PM
Early struggles for Wie at the LPGA Championship. I've read stuff saying she has altered her smooth swing trying to gain more distance to compete with the men.

KYRedsFan
06-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Heh heh

http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/images/beavis-butthead.jpeg

Outstanding Johnny :beerme:

jmcclain19
06-07-2007, 09:12 PM
A rich teenage girl with maturity issues - who would have thought?

Redhook
06-08-2007, 12:56 AM
Early struggles for Wie at the LPGA Championship. I've read stuff saying she has altered her smooth swing trying to gain more distance to compete with the men.

That wouldn't surprise me. Her nickname used to be the "Big Wiesy" because her swing was comparable in tempo to Ernie Els. Now, it's super fast and hard. It's truely amazing how much her swing has digressed in the last few years. I put a lot of that blame on Leadbetter.

Blimpie
06-08-2007, 08:20 AM
http://www.tvland.com/shows/jeffersons/images/shows/charpic2.jpg

Highlifeman21
06-08-2007, 07:38 PM
That wouldn't surprise me. Her nickname used to be the "Big Wiesy" because her swing was comparable in tempo to Ernie Els. Now, it's super fast and hard. It's truely amazing how much her swing has digressed in the last few years. I put a lot of that blame on Leadbetter.

From what I've read and heard, Leadbetter's distanced himself from her at an increasing rate over the past few years. He's still her "coach", but perhaps only by title.

Redhook
06-08-2007, 11:55 PM
From what I've read and heard, Leadbetter's distanced himself from her at an increasing rate over the past few years. He's still her "coach", but perhaps only by title.

That could be true. It wouldn't surprise me.

I did see Leadbetter with Wie all the time in 2005 on the LPGA tour. In fact, I can't remember a tournament that she played in that he wasn't there. Last year she was still wearing the Leadbetter hat, but I wasn't caddying so I don't know if Lead was still there or not. I actually have no clue if she's still seeing him or not.

What I do know is her swing is getting worse. She's kind of like Tiger, who's swing is also getting worse IMO, in the fact that they could swing with KMART clubs or take lessons from my sister and still be a great player. There good inspite the instructor (kind of like the Reds last year with Narron ;)).

I've always heard that Leadbetter tends to "steal" good players from his other instructors to make him look good. I've actually taken lessons at the Leadbetter Academy. A few years ago for a few months I took lessons there and heard this rumor from quite a few of his instructors. It seems like one of his instructors improves/creates the good player, then Leadbetter swoops in and steals the good player to receive all the glory. That's pretty sad if true.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a big Leadbetter fan.

Highlifeman21
06-09-2007, 06:23 PM
That could be true. It wouldn't surprise me.

I did see Leadbetter with Wie all the time in 2005 on the LPGA tour. In fact, I can't remember a tournament that she played in that he wasn't there. Last year she was still wearing the Leadbetter hat, but I wasn't caddying so I don't know if Lead was still there or not. I actually have no clue if she's still seeing him or not.

What I do know is her swing is getting worse. She's kind of like Tiger, who's swing is also getting worse IMO, in the fact that they could swing with KMART clubs or take lessons from my sister and still be a great player. There good inspite the instructor (kind of like the Reds last year with Narron ;)).

I've always heard that Leadbetter tends to "steal" good players from his other instructors to make him look good. I've actually taken lessons at the Leadbetter Academy. A few years ago for a few months I took lessons there and heard this rumor from quite a few of his instructors. It seems like one of his instructors improves/creates the good player, then Leadbetter swoops in and steals the good player to receive all the glory. That's pretty sad if true.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a big Leadbetter fan.

I'm not big on Leadbetter either.

That swingsetter garbage he put out on the market teaches nothing but how to cast the club. Awesome. Way to go.

Anyway, Wie needs to rebuild her swing and get rid of that ridiculous wraparound follow-through. She added it to attempt to add distance to her game when trying to compete with the Men and it's done nothing but hurt her. She's an all-world talent, it's time that she tapped into it and matured both herself and her game.

IMO, she just needs new/better handlers. Her parents are ruining her.

SunDeck
06-10-2007, 10:46 AM
I was down in Pawleys during the Ginn. We figured she pulled out because she new the tropical storm was moving up the coast and would ruin her photo oppurtunities.

Anyway, I think this kid is quite confused right now. Maybe the best thing for her will be to go to college, gain a freshman fifteen and maybe let college help her to learn what she wants to do. It seems to me that she's got this unrealistic idea of playing with the men without having proven that she can compete consistently.

Redhook
06-10-2007, 11:25 AM
I was down in Pawleys during the Ginn. We figured she pulled out because she new the tropical storm was moving up the coast and would ruin her photo oppurtunities.

:laugh:


Anyway, I think this kid is quite confused right now.

I agree. I really don't know what the Wie clan is trying to do or prove. Committing to another PGA event is that last thing they should've been doing this year. Now, she's shooting 80's on the easy LPGA courses. That's a bad sign.


Maybe the best thing for her will be to go to college, gain a freshman fifteen and maybe let college help her to learn what she wants to do. It seems to me that she's got this unrealistic idea of playing with the men without having proven that she can compete consistently.

She said she is going to Stanford. Right now, that would be a good thing for her.

You would think a normal person would see that they couldn't compete consistently against men. I don't think she'll ever be able to do it. If she keeps trying she'll eventually make a cut....whoopty do :rolleyes:. She actually believes she can compete against the best week in and week out. There's no chance. Here's why:

1) Her short game. It's pretty bad. Her chipping and pitching are ok and will improve, but she's a terrible putter (compared to PGA standards). IMO, she will never be a great putter. Her overall short game, right now, would rank dead last on the PGA Tour. The best players in the world also have the best short games.

2) The distance factor. She hits it pretty far, but not far enough to compete against the best. If she had Tiger's short game she could be a top 50 player in the world. That's how good Tiger's short game is. But, with her lack of distance, she'll never be able to compete full-time on tour. I've seen her hit up close many times. She hits it ok (compared to men, not women). She hits a lot of low hooks though. She would struggle on firm courses holding the greens going for tucked pins. There's not enough ball speed to create the spin needed.

She needs to stop playing against men immediately.

Redhook
06-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Anyway, Wie needs to rebuild her swing and get rid of that ridiculous wraparound follow-through. She added it to attempt to add distance to her game when trying to compete with the Men and it's done nothing but hurt her.

Absolutely. It looks ridiculous. And on her punch shots she never gets off her right side. It's a hook waiting-to-happen every time. I have no idea what Leadbetter was/is trying to teach her, but IMO, it's pure c***. It's brutal. Her swing and game is going down the tubes quickly.


She's an all-world talent, it's time that she tapped into it and matured both herself and her game.

She's the most talented female I've seen. By a lot. Much more talent than Annika and Ochoa. The only other female that is remotely close is Se Ri Pak. She's pretty awesome, but lost control of her driver a few years ago and hasn't fully recovered.


IMO, she just needs new/better handlers. Her parents are ruining her.

Very true. I have no idea what they're thinking. Initially, I thought they were doing the right thing by playing a few men's events, signing with NIKE, etc. because you just never know what's going to happen. They cashed in which is smart because they're set for life. However, the circus needs to stop. They don't need to the money or publicity anymore. They need to focus on getting her career back on track. They need to get her a decent instructor and focus solely on becoming the best women in the world.

It can still happen, but it's not close to the sure thing it once was.

Yachtzee
06-10-2007, 12:51 PM
1) Her short game. It's pretty bad. Her chipping and pitching are ok and will improve, but she's a terrible putter (compared to PGA standards). IMO, she will never be a great putter. Her overall short game, right now, would rank dead last on the PGA Tour. The best players in the world also have the best short games.



That's what my uncle says is her biggest challenge. According to him, PGA greens are so fast it's like trying to putt on a pool table, . . . a big, slanted, uneven pool table. He says that if you don't have good touch on and around the greens, there's little to no hope for you on the PGA tour.

SunDeck
06-10-2007, 02:16 PM
She said she is going to Stanford. Right now, that would be a good thing for her.

Yeah, she said something about that after she withdrew, about being stressed over trying to find housing at Stanford, as if that was weighing on her mind more than the thing about the wrist and Annika being mad and looking like a spoiled brat. I mean who is actually going to believe that Michelle Wie will have trouble lining up housing for college? Um...just buy a whole dorm, a backpack, a pack of highlighters and you're ready for college, kid.

Yachtzee
06-10-2007, 02:19 PM
Yeah, she said something about that after she withdrew, about being stressed over trying to find housing at Stanford, as if that was weighing on her mind more than the thing about the wrist and Annika being mad and looking like a spoiled brat. I mean who is actually going to believe that Michelle Wie will have trouble lining up housing for college? Um...just buy a whole dorm, a backpack, a pack of highlighters and you're ready for college, kid.

If she doesn't want to buy a dorm, she can always do what other celebrities do and have MTV or some other channel find a place for her so that they can do a reality show on her college life.

Highlifeman21
06-10-2007, 08:55 PM
If she doesn't want to buy a dorm, she can always do what other celebrities do and have MTV or some other channel find a place for her so that they can do a reality show on her college life.

The last thing I wanna see is more Michelle Wie....

The next time I wanna see her, it better be high on the 1st page of the leaderboard.

Redhook
06-11-2007, 11:10 PM
From what I've read and heard, Leadbetter's distanced himself from her at an increasing rate over the past few years. He's still her "coach", but perhaps only by title.

Just got some inside information....

I just got off the phone with my friend, Miles, who still caddies full-time on the LPGA tour. He's the lucky guy who was caddying for Birdie Kim 2 years ago when she holed the bunker shot to win the US Open.

Anyhow, he was at the LPGA Championship and saw Leadbetter with Wie during the practice rounds. And, he said she was hitting it awful. God awful. It would probably be in her best interest to distance herself from Leadbetter since he seems to only make good players worse.

Miles also said Wie was ripping at the ball showing no signs of any wrist injury. A wrist injury could've been a convenient excuse to withdraw from her last event. I don't want to make light of wrist injuries because they're awful and I actually had to withdraw from a tournament a month ago because of one, but they could potentially be an easy out if you're not playing well.

Curious to see what's next in the Michelle Wie saga....

RANDY IN INDY
06-12-2007, 08:25 AM
Anyhow, he was at the LPGA Championship and saw Leadbetter with Wie during the practice rounds. And, he said she was hitting it awful. God awful. It would probably be in her best interest to distance herself from Leadbetter since he seems to only make good players worse.

I absolutely cannot stand David Leadbetter. Agree completely.

SunDeck
06-12-2007, 12:17 PM
I absolutely cannot stand David Leadbetter. Agree completely.

I dumped him as my swing coach, too. The guy absolutely ruined my game.

Seriously, all I know of the guy is what I see in magazines, so I don't have much of an opinion. And speaking of which I think it would be fun to track all the advice given in golf magazines for a year, then to compare the conflicts:
Ball forward/ball back, start with the hands/start with the hips, one swing for draws and fades/two swings, one plane/two planes, one part/two part/three part takeaway, fix your slice with your swing/fix it with your alignment, swing hard/swing easy.

I think the magazines have a vested interest in keeping golfers confused :).

RANDY IN INDY
06-12-2007, 02:05 PM
In the past, any of the things that I have ever read or seen on TV about Leadbetter's instruction that I have tried to apply to my game have really messed me up. I finally quit reading or listening to anything that he puts out. His drills and swing thoughts will put my game in the toilet faster than anything.

SunDeck
06-12-2007, 03:34 PM
When I first started golfing, I couldn't keep the ball from going right, from an eight iron to 3 wood (I don't own a driver), everything was right or a push slice. So I read and I read and I read and I looked at Harmon's tips and Leadbetter's and everything else I could get my hands on about curing that problem. I tried to learn how to swing from the inside, or flatter, and I tried to make a fuller turn or to release the club head. Nothing worked.

So I took a lesson from a pro. She watched me hit a dozen balls, then showed me that my alignment was always left by about 15 degrees. She said nothing about my swing, except this- "It's fine." I straightened out, got my body square to the target line and the balls began flying exactly where I wanted them to and very much further than they had gone before. It was like a miracle and it literally took a half dozen strokes off my game in an instant, once I got used to the new length.

In all the articles I read about slicing, I don't recall one that talked about alignment, that most fundamental of all swing attributes. And that is my beef with the writers- I have never seen one article in Golf Digest for instance that discusses the basics of a proper setup and swing. It's always about curing a particular ill or getting more length or trying to make the ball do things that no once a week golfer can ever achieve. And as a relatively new golfer I wanted to learn things the right way rather than by trying to make adjustments to compensate for basic mechanical and fundamental problems.

RANDY IN INDY
06-12-2007, 04:00 PM
When I first started golfing, I couldn't keep the ball from going right, from an eight iron to 3 wood (I don't own a driver), everything was right or a push slice. So I read and I read and I read and I looked at Harmon's tips and Leadbetter's and everything else I could get my hands on about curing that problem. I tried to learn how to swing from the inside, or flatter, and I tried to make a fuller turn or to release the club head. Nothing worked.

So I took a lesson from a pro. She watched me hit a dozen balls, then showed me that my alignment was always left by about 15 degrees. She said nothing about my swing, except this- "It's fine." I straightened out, got my body square to the target line and the balls began flying exactly where I wanted them to and very much further than they had gone before. It was like a miracle and it literally took a half dozen strokes off my game in an instant, once I got used to the new length.

In all the articles I read about slicing, I don't recall one that talked about alignment, that most fundamental of all swing attributes. And that is my beef with the writers- I have never seen one article in Golf Digest for instance that discusses the basics of a proper setup and swing. It's always about curing a particular ill or getting more length or trying to make the ball do things that no once a week golfer can ever achieve. And as a relatively new golfer I wanted to learn things the right way rather than by trying to make adjustments to compensate for basic mechanical and fundamental problems.

:beerme:Most people do not align correctly. It is a universal flaw. You are right on the money with that post.

OldRightHander
06-12-2007, 06:50 PM
When I first started golfing, I couldn't keep the ball from going right, from an eight iron to 3 wood (I don't own a driver), everything was right or a push slice. So I read and I read and I read and I looked at Harmon's tips and Leadbetter's and everything else I could get my hands on about curing that problem. I tried to learn how to swing from the inside, or flatter, and I tried to make a fuller turn or to release the club head. Nothing worked.

So I took a lesson from a pro. She watched me hit a dozen balls, then showed me that my alignment was always left by about 15 degrees. She said nothing about my swing, except this- "It's fine." I straightened out, got my body square to the target line and the balls began flying exactly where I wanted them to and very much further than they had gone before. It was like a miracle and it literally took a half dozen strokes off my game in an instant, once I got used to the new length.

In all the articles I read about slicing, I don't recall one that talked about alignment, that most fundamental of all swing attributes. And that is my beef with the writers- I have never seen one article in Golf Digest for instance that discusses the basics of a proper setup and swing. It's always about curing a particular ill or getting more length or trying to make the ball do things that no once a week golfer can ever achieve. And as a relatively new golfer I wanted to learn things the right way rather than by trying to make adjustments to compensate for basic mechanical and fundamental problems.

That was my problem too. Everything would go right and I just kept aiming more to the left to try to compensate. I pretty much had it figured out. I would aim way to the left and the ball would end up in the middle, but I wasn't getting any distance. Then one day I just said, "What the heck" and aimed down the middle. One or two balls went to the right and then I started hitting it straight. I have been hitting straight balls ever since, with only the occasional slice but now I can identify what I'm doing to cause the slice and it doesn't happen that often anymore. I will on occasion have a very slight draw now, but it's not that pronounced and it's easier to deal with that the slice I used to have. It's a weird game. Sometimes I think the name of the game should be changed from golf to "Oh @#%$!!"

sonny
06-13-2007, 03:37 AM
The last thing I wanna see is more Michelle Wie....

The next time I wanna see her, it better be high on the 1st page of the leaderboard.

More likely to see her high next to Paris Hilton than high on the first page of the leaderboard.

Redhook
06-13-2007, 09:05 AM
:beerme:Most people do not align correctly. It is a universal flaw. You are right on the money with that post.

I agree. Only about 10% of the people I teach align correctly right away. It's one of the first things I look at because it can lead to major problems and can cure simple problems.

Here's some ways to align correctly and check it:

1) Pick out your target in the distance (be very precise....something small like the top of tree, a 150 post, not the entire fairway). This target is where you want the ball to start. If you fade or draw the ball, it is best to pick the target left or right of your target to allow your ball to curve to the middle.

2) Now, once you have your target, draw an imaginary line from your target to your ball. Pick out a point approx. 6-12" in front of the ball to line your club up to. I'm sure many of you do this.

The next points are very important and why people misalign.

3) Step up to the ball and align your clubface to the point 6" in front of the ball, AND have your right foot parallel to the clubface (your left foot will be next to your right, but farther away from the ball by a few inches).

Ok, so now your clubface and right foot are lined up to the target. The next point is crucial to aligning consistently.

4) While looking at the TARGET, set your left foot and slightly adjust your right foot for the desired width in your stance.

Most golfers stare at the ground when they set their feet. Unless you practice all day long, it's very difficult to line up correctly if your staring at the ground.

Looking at the target initiates our hand-eye coordination. Our feet act like our hands and can adjust to what our eyes see. So it's imperative to use your eyes as much as you can when you're aligning for a shot.


Further, most golfers tend to slice the ball. Alignment is a major factor in that. 99% of the golfers I've seen slice the ball have open shoulders. Our arms have to swing where our shoulders are aiming. Why? Because they're connected. So, if you have your feet aimed correctly and your shoulders are open you will still tend to swing outside to in and slice/pull the ball.

Here's how to check your shoulders (with the help of a fellow golfer):

1) Set up to the ball normally and don't move.

2) Have a friend place a club at the back of your heels (touching both) and have them come around to the front of you (facing you) and hold a club up along your shoulders.

3) Once they're done, they will stay there holding the club up while you step and stand back to look down your target line.

4) What you want to see is both clubs are parallel slightly left of the target (ideally, you would want a line from your ball directly pointing at the target and your feet and shoulders parallel to that line just left of the target). If you're a slicer of the ball, you will most likely notice that your shoulders will be aiming left of your foot line (for righties). If that's the case, you should practice closing your shoulders at address and feeling like they stay closed longer when you swing. This will dramatically help the slice.


I hope that helps all you golfers out there. Feel free to ask me any questions at anytime. Another thing, go easy on the golf magazines. They're made to confuse people so they have to take more golf lessons. :laugh: . Good for me though!

SunDeck
06-13-2007, 10:00 AM
From what I read it's clear the editors of the golf mags send you pros pre-pub copy of the articles so that you can make sure they aren't really helpful.

Is there an annual conference where you guys consult with the editors to chart the course of the coming year's "advice" and catch phrases?

Here are some I'm predicting for 2008. I have no idea what these would actually mean, but certainly Golf Digest could run with them:

The Zip and Tip
The Boom-Chucka
The Z-move
The Flat Zone
The Cigar Factor
The High and Tight
The Twist and Mist
Vortex
Spine Torque
Shoulder Shizzle

Feel free to use these in your lessons. I bet they'd stick.

RANDY IN INDY
06-13-2007, 02:17 PM
I agree. Only about 10% of the people I teach align correctly right away. It's one of the first things I look at because it can lead to major problems and can cure simple problems.

Here's some ways to align correctly and check it:

1) Pick out your target in the distance (be very precise....something small like the top of tree, a 150 post, not the entire fairway). This target is where you want the ball to start. If you fade or draw the ball, it is best to pick the target left or right of your target to allow your ball to curve to the middle.

2) Now, once you have your target, draw an imaginary line from your target to your ball. Pick out a point approx. 6-12" in front of the ball to line your club up to. I'm sure many of you do this.

The next points are very important and why people misalign.

3) Step up to the ball and align your clubface to the point 6" in front of the ball, AND have your right foot parallel to the clubface (your left foot will be next to your right, but farther away from the ball by a few inches).

Ok, so now your clubface and right foot are lined up to the target. The next point is crucial to aligning consistently.

4) While looking at the TARGET, set your left foot and slightly adjust your right foot for the desired width in your stance.

Most golfers stare at the ground when they set their feet. Unless you practice all day long, it's very difficult to line up correctly if your staring at the ground.

Looking at the target initiates our hand-eye coordination. Our feet act like our hands and can adjust to what our eyes see. So it's imperative to use your eyes as much as you can when you're aligning for a shot.


Further, most golfers tend to slice the ball. Alignment is a major factor in that. 99% of the golfers I've seen slice the ball have open shoulders. Our arms have to swing where our shoulders are aiming. Why? Because they're connected. So, if you have your feet aimed correctly and your shoulders are open you will still tend to swing outside to in and slice/pull the ball.

Here's how to check your shoulders (with the help of a fellow golfer):

1) Set up to the ball normally and don't move.

2) Have a friend place a club at the back of your heels (touching both) and have them come around to the front of you (facing you) and hold a club up along your shoulders.

3) Once they're done, they will stay there holding the club up while you step and stand back to look down your target line.

4) What you want to see is both clubs are parallel slightly left of the target (ideally, you would want a line from your ball directly pointing at the target and your feet and shoulders parallel to that line just left of the target). If you're a slicer of the ball, you will most likely notice that your shoulders will be aiming left of your foot line (for righties). If that's the case, you should practice closing your shoulders at address and feeling like they stay closed longer when you swing. This will dramatically help the slice.


I hope that helps all you golfers out there. Feel free to ask me any questions at anytime. Another thing, go easy on the golf magazines. They're made to confuse people so they have to take more golf lessons. :laugh: . Good for me though!

That's better advice than you can get out of a magazine!

Redhook
06-13-2007, 10:37 PM
That's better advice than you can get out of a magazine!

You're welcome and thank you.

Redhook
06-13-2007, 10:43 PM
From what I read it's clear the editors of the golf mags send you pros pre-pub copy of the articles so that you can make sure they aren't really helpful.

Is there an annual conference where you guys consult with the editors to chart the course of the coming year's "advice" and catch phrases?

Here are some I'm predicting for 2008. I have no idea what these would actually mean, but certainly Golf Digest could run with them:

The Zip and Tip
The Boom-Chucka
The Z-move
The Flat Zone
The Cigar Factor
The High and Tight
The Twist and Mist
Vortex
Spine Torque
Shoulder Shizzle

Feel free to use these in your lessons. I bet they'd stick.

This post is hilarious.

Before I became a golf instructor I thought the same thing about those magazines. I actually find them a lot more helpful now than I used to because I actually understand the golf swing. As a casual golfer, trying to decipher what your reading in a golf magazine is like trying to figure out a Rubix Cube the first time you try it. It'll make you a mess.

Those catch phrases were great. What's funny is I could probably come up with a way to use most, if not all, of them in some facet of my teaching. I like the Shoulder Shizzle the best. That's great! :laugh:

OldRightHander
06-14-2007, 12:43 AM
because I actually understand the golf swing.

I understand it pretty well, but putting that into practice is another thing altogether.

paintmered
06-14-2007, 02:05 AM
My question is this? Why can I do to keep my swing from breaking down as I begin to play more often.

I went to the range a few days ago after not touching my clubs for nearly three months (thanks so much, engineering school). I was hitting the ball GREAT. The irons were going exactly where I wanted them. I was effortlessly flying the driver 290 with a slight fade (my ball flight when I'm swinging the driver well).

But my pattern the last few seasons is my swing breaks down and breaks down quickly (i.e. after a few holes). Maybe it's because I don't play nearly as much as I once did. Maybe it's because I think too much out there. Do anyone have any tips to add some consistency to my swing mid-round and in between rounds?

RFS62
06-14-2007, 08:31 AM
My question is this? Why can I do to keep my swing from breaking down as I begin to play more often.

I went to the range a few days ago after not touching my clubs for nearly three months (thanks so much, engineering school). I was hitting the ball GREAT. The irons were going exactly where I wanted them. I was effortlessly flying the driver 290 with a slight fade (my ball flight when I'm swinging the driver well).

But my pattern the last few seasons is my swing breaks down and breaks down quickly (i.e. after a few holes). Maybe it's because I don't play nearly as much as I once did. Maybe it's because I think too much out there. Do anyone have any tips to add some consistency to my swing mid-round and in between rounds?



That has been my experience for years. I'd play for a few weeks or months at a time and really get on top of my game, then have to go off somewhere and not touch a club for a month or two.

When I'd come back, invariably, I'd hit the ball great at first.

I'm convinced it's all about expectations and the mental side of the game. I had no expectations at all on the first round or session, and I got completely out of my own way mentally. Then as soon as I thought I "got it back", I'd change my thought process and start analyzing and overthinking. That's the mythical "paralysis by analysis" that all golfers go through.

If you can control your thoughts and learn to think in pictures once you address the ball, you're infinitely more likely to produce a good swing, if you have solid fundamentals. If you're overthinking and constantly going through swing thoughts or tips when you're over the ball, you're pretty much doomed.

SunDeck
06-14-2007, 09:10 AM
One shot at a time. People talk about it, but rarely can we actually do it. One ball in the woods off the tee and it affects the next tee shot. One push to the right and you're off and running with the analysis. For someone who plays a lot and plays relatively well, those bad shots don't bother them as much because they know they are pretty good and that their round is not doomed. But for the high handicapper, for whom a round of golf is about avoiding blowup holes, those big misses create a firestorm of mental problems. Here's a great example of a good game from the mental side: I played with my dad a couple of weeks ago from the senior tees. For the most part I used a four iron off the tee box because I wanted to stay at about the same length as him. The result was one of the best rounds I've shot this year and it wasn't because the course was THAT much shorter (I think it was a 200 yard advantage over the whites). The difference was in the mental game I played, where I knew exactly where I was going on every shot, just sticking to the same routine that my dad used, which went something like this for a typical 350 yard hole- 180 yard tee shot, 150 yard approach, chip shot and one or two putt.

The other thing about this story is something I bet pros would agree with- people should play at the tees that match their handicap, but they hardly ever do. It was great fun playing from the yellow tees for me, but the two guys we were paired with who were on the whites (and whose handicaps were probably 25) it looked like a pretty awful day. They really should have been where we were, but since they were young they didn't want to play the "senior" tees.

Highlifeman21
06-14-2007, 09:29 AM
My question is this? Why can I do to keep my swing from breaking down as I begin to play more often.

I went to the range a few days ago after not touching my clubs for nearly three months (thanks so much, engineering school). I was hitting the ball GREAT. The irons were going exactly where I wanted them. I was effortlessly flying the driver 290 with a slight fade (my ball flight when I'm swinging the driver well).

But my pattern the last few seasons is my swing breaks down and breaks down quickly (i.e. after a few holes). Maybe it's because I don't play nearly as much as I once did. Maybe it's because I think too much out there. Do anyone have any tips to add some consistency to my swing mid-round and in between rounds?

Stop thinking.



The more you let your brain enter the equation, you're actually taking steps backwards.

If you're hitting it like crap on the practice range, the worst thing you can do is keep practicing during that session, b/c you're only getting reps of bad swings. Rarely when you're hitting it bad on the range can you correct any issues.

If you feel your swing breaking down during the round, my best solution is to take more club, and look at a 3/4 swing. Most golfers typically do not take enough club in general, so taking more club is always a great idea.

Also, if your swing is breaking down, widen your stance a little more, and concentrate on not swaying your body. I know that takes thought, and thinking during a round is a bad idea, but by giving yourself a firmer base you can typically eliminate unnecessary body movement.

Redhook
06-14-2007, 09:51 AM
My question is this? Why can I do to keep my swing from breaking down as I begin to play more often.

Do anyone have any tips to add some consistency to my swing mid-round and in between rounds?

Expectations and fundamentals.

Each year, my first round is one of my best ball-striking rounds. My feel around and on the greens is usually a little rough, but I usually hit the ball really well. My mind is so clear being out on the course for the first time. I don't have all the baggage from previous rounds and bad shots.

What I would recommend is try to keep it very simple on the course. Focus on fundamentals and establish a good routine. Fundamentals include a good grip, balance, posture, and alignment. When one of these goes bad, the golf swing usually follows. 90% of golfers problems occur before they even start their swing. Focus on perfecting your fundamentals all year long.

Routine. Find a routine that you like and stick to it. This routine will become your best friend when time's are tough/nerve-racking on the course. Your routine should last about 20 seconds and that should really be the only time you're actually focusing on the course. The other time should be spent talking to your playing partners and enjoying your day. But, during that 20 seconds you should be in the zone of producing an excellent shot by going through your routine.

Redhook
06-14-2007, 09:57 AM
people should play at the tees that match their handicap, but they hardly ever do.

A man's ego can go a long way to ruining a nice day on the golf course.

At our courses, we actually changed the name "senior" or "women's" tees to forward tees. The extra 20-50 yards on each hole can really, really help people out.

Another ego thing is hitting the driver. Like you said, you played great and were hitting 4 iron all day long. Getting the ball in play is much more important than distance.

SunDeck
06-14-2007, 10:19 AM
My driver stays at home in the closet.


At our courses, we actually changed the name "senior" or "women's" tees to forward tees.

It's a nice thought- I hope it catches on with the golfers, too. Once I learned that golf is a game of strategy more than length it became a lot more fun.

Yachtzee
06-14-2007, 02:06 PM
Stop thinking.



The more you let your brain enter the equation, you're actually taking steps backwards.

If you're hitting it like crap on the practice range, the worst thing you can do is keep practicing during that session, b/c you're only getting reps of bad swings. Rarely when you're hitting it bad on the range can you correct any issues.

If you feel your swing breaking down during the round, my best solution is to take more club, and look at a 3/4 swing. Most golfers typically do not take enough club in general, so taking more club is always a great idea.

Also, if your swing is breaking down, widen your stance a little more, and concentrate on not swaying your body. I know that takes thought, and thinking during a round is a bad idea, but by giving yourself a firmer base you can typically eliminate unnecessary body movement.

And remember, the rose goes in front. ;)

gonelong
06-14-2007, 03:59 PM
As a higher handicapper a few things helped me drop those last 4-5 strokes off my game.

1) Play backwards from the hole. I am best at about 125 yrds from the green, so I play my drives to stop 125 yds from the green as best I can. This means on a 340 yd hole I'll play a 5 wood to hit it 220 instead of taking the driver and ending up with a 60 yd chip.

2) I shoot a 90 or so ... so I play to "personal par". If I bogey a hole, that is personal par. If I double a hole, that is a personal bogey. A few of my friends have picked this up and really like it.

3) I score three holes a time against my personal par. When I hit the 4th hole I completely forget about the first 3. I should probably play one hole at a time, but I can't seem to do that. I can play 3 holes at a time. I find that this helps out quite a bit when I have a blowup hole and can put it out of my mind pretty quickly.

4) I don't play for the pin at all. I aim for the fattest and/or saftest (away from water, sand traps, elevated side) part of the green no matter where the pin is. I mi**** enough that I end up close to the pin often enough to have some real birdie tries.

About once a year I'll leave all my woods at home and play around with nothing but irons. Invariably that is one of my better rounds for the year. Usually my only thought for my woods or longer irons is to advance the ball up the fairway and keep it safe.

GL

SunDeck
06-14-2007, 04:26 PM
I do the same thing with the personal par. It makes things realistic and fun for me.

:thumbup:

Highlifeman21
06-14-2007, 11:19 PM
I do the same thing with the personal par. It makes things realistic and fun for me.

:thumbup:

I'm sick of par 67-75 courses....

So much for the realism and fun.

bucksfan2
06-15-2007, 02:53 PM
Different things work for different players. My recomendation is just enjoy the game. You want to play the course that best suites you. Most of the courses offer tee's that enable every skill level to play. Play the tees that are most suitable for you. Its senseless for a shorter hitter to play a course at 7,000 yards when another tee box would allow you to play the couse at 6,300. The biggest thing that will help you score better is to spend more time around the putting green. Most average players I see go down to the range an hit driver after driver. Fact of the matter is you probably hit around 10-14 drivers per round yet you can have upwards of 30 putts.

A few tips
-If you are hitting an approach shot to a green, favor the side that is more forgiving. You dont want to short side yourself.
-Put the driver away. Most holes you dont need to hit your driver. My favorite club in my bag is either my 2 iron or 3 wood. Find a club that you can hit straighter and like and hit that more.
-The short game is the key to becoming a better golfer
-Play each hole one at a time. Do you bets to put bad shots behind you
-If you are close to a future hole, check out the green and pin placement. This can help you out when you hit your approach shot to the hole.

gonelong
06-15-2007, 03:16 PM
-If you are close to a future hole, check out the green and pin placement. This can help you out when you hit your approach shot to the hole.

Fine advice and one that I practice myself. I generally look down the fairway of that hole as well to see if I will have any obstacles to avoid such as a creek, and the distance I have between the obstacle and green.

GL

OldRightHander
06-16-2007, 12:29 AM
The one thing that helped me improve was when I stopped trying to crush my drives. I still use my driver but I just take a nice easy swing with it and try to hit the ball straight. I don't have a lot of length, but most of my drives end up in the fairway where I have a reasonable chance from there. When I get into trouble is when I try to hit it too hard and then I end up slicing it or just plain not making good solid contact.

I do agree that ego can really mess up your game. Here's a case in point. I do pretty well between 125 and 150 yards out. I have a hard time inside that distance, unless I'm chipping. It's that shot from 70-100 yards that I have a lot of trouble with for some reason. I'm either too long or too short, but if I'm anywhere between 125-150, I can usually put it on the green and not be too far away from the hole. Because of that I try to play my longer shots with a mind to give myself an approach shot somewhere in that range. If I get one of those short par 4 holes where a good drive might put me inside 100 yards, I like to hit a shorter club off the tee and give myself something over 100 yards. Maybe I need to work more on those shorter shots, but I've noticed that I shoot better scores when I sometimes hit a shorter drive and have an approach shot I'm more comfortable with.

SunDeck
06-17-2007, 01:41 PM
That's just smart Golf ORH.

bucksfan2
06-19-2007, 04:26 PM
I do agree that ego can really mess up your game. Here's a case in point. I do pretty well between 125 and 150 yards out. I have a hard time inside that distance, unless I'm chipping. It's that shot from 70-100 yards that I have a lot of trouble with for some reason. I'm either too long or too short, but if I'm anywhere between 125-150, I can usually put it on the green and not be too far away from the hole. Because of that I try to play my longer shots with a mind to give myself an approach shot somewhere in that range. If I get one of those short par 4 holes where a good drive might put me inside 100 yards, I like to hit a shorter club off the tee and give myself something over 100 yards. Maybe I need to work more on those shorter shots, but I've noticed that I shoot better scores when I sometimes hit a shorter drive and have an approach shot I'm more comfortable with.

If you have the means I would suggest trying a new set of wedges. Or whatever you hit from inside 100 yards. It is a mental thing more than anything. I used to play the Armour 855's and I hated my 4 iron. It was a pull to a pull hook every time I tried to hit the ball. Everytime I was in that range I was thinking about that same bad shot. A few years later I got a new set of clubs the Mizzuno mp 14's. My 4 iron is my favorite club in my bag. However I had a problem with my 9 iron. I went on ebay and bought the same 9 iron and hit it the way I want. I guess in summary its more of a mental thing than anything. It would frustrate me to no ends if I could not convert from within 100 yards so I see where your frustration is coming from.

SunDeck
06-19-2007, 04:33 PM
Bucksfan has a heart to heart with the latest club in his bag to get on his nerves:

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/88/73/22197388.jpg

gonelong
06-19-2007, 06:09 PM
If you have the means I would suggest trying a new set of wedges. Or whatever you hit from inside 100 yards. It is a mental thing more than anything. I used to play the Armour 855's and I hated my 4 iron. It was a pull to a pull hook every time I tried to hit the ball. Everytime I was in that range I was thinking about that same bad shot. A few years later I got a new set of clubs the Mizzuno mp 14's. My 4 iron is my favorite club in my bag. However I had a problem with my 9 iron. I went on ebay and bought the same 9 iron and hit it the way I want. I guess in summary its more of a mental thing than anything. It would frustrate me to no ends if I could not convert from within 100 yards so I see where your frustration is coming from.

How do you more advanced golfers feel about "spining" your clubs?

I have read a few articles that your shafts have "spines" and if they are aligned differently on your clubs, you'll hit some of them more consitantly that others.

The advice I received was to pick out your favorite club and have somebody spine all your clubs to that club.

I have not done it, but I am considering it as a part of my next set of irons.

GL

Redhook
06-20-2007, 12:00 AM
How do you more advanced golfers feel about "spining" your clubs?

I have read a few articles that your shafts have "spines" and if they are aligned differently on your clubs, you'll hit some of them more consitantly that others.

The advice I received was to pick out your favorite club and have somebody spine all your clubs to that club.

I have not done it, but I am considering it as a part of my next set of irons.

GL

Getting your clubs spined would help just about everyone, but how much is the real question. For some people, it could help a lot, but for others it might be marginal.

Here's the problem. It costs a small fortune. You're probably looking at $35-$40 per club, unless you know someone who knows someone. That's a lot. Almost enough to buy a new set of irons. But, if you can get it done to a new set before you buy them it might be well worth it if it only cost $10 or so extra per club. Then it would be a good investment.

I'm lucky I have a friend who does this type of work for me. I've had clubs frequency matched, spined, matched for bend point, etc. It does help.

I would recommend picking out your favorite iron or two and have them checked out by a good club fitter. Ask him what the swing weight is, the overall weight, the frequency, length, etc. Then have him match the rest of your set as close to those two using those measures. It'll be good enough for the majority of golfers.

Also, get your lie and lofts checked. Having the right lie is very important. If it's off a couple of degrees it can have disastrous effects. It'd be like putting on a dress shirt that was 15" or 17" inches for your neck when you're a 16". It can make that much of a difference.

What's truely amazing is how most golfers don't get their clubs fitted for them. Would you buy a suit off the rack without having your arms, shoulders, etc. measured? No way, right? It's the same with golf clubs. And they cost 4 times as much as a suit. Spending $500-$1000 on a new set of clubs is almost useless if they don't fit your stature and swing.

If you want to enjoy the game more, invest $100 into getting your clubs fitted to your swing. It'll make the game much more enjoyable.

flyer85
06-28-2007, 02:22 PM
Shot 82 in the first round of the US open.

Is it possible she could turn out to be one of the greatest flops in sports history?

dabvu2498
06-28-2007, 03:59 PM
Shot 82 in the first round of the US open.



Karrie Webb shot 83.

Just sayin'.

flyer85
06-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Karrie Webb shot 83.

Just sayin'.Karrie Webb didn't finish 35 shots out of the lead in the last major. Just said. :D

Wie has not broken par in what is now extended to 20+ rounds

Redhook
02-22-2008, 10:46 PM
Wie is back in action this week and opened up with a 69. I'm guessing it's her first round in the 60's in quite a while.

I'm watching round 2 right now and just watched Wie's swing in slow-mo. It's official: Leadbetter has ruined her golf swing. Her swing is so fast that her slow motion swing looks like real time. Her legs are all out of sorts too. I'm surprised she still takes lessons from him.

Fortunately, it looks like she is getting her confidence back though. I hope her swing mechanics follow suit. I'm rooting for her to get her game back. I might be in the minority, but I think she's quite an asset and getting her back to form would do nothing but good things for the game of golf.

Chip R
02-22-2008, 10:53 PM
Wie is back in action this week and opened up with a 69. I'm guessing it's her first round in the 60's in quite a while.

I'm watching round 2 right now and just watched Wie's swing in slow-mo. It's official: Leadbetter has ruined her golf swing. Her swing is so fast that her slow motion swing looks like real time. Her legs are all out of sorts too. I'm surprised she still takes lessons from him.

Fortunately, it looks like she is getting her confidence back though. I hope her swing mechanics follow suit. I'm rooting for her to get her game back. I might be in the minority, but I think she's quite an asset and getting her back to form would do nothing but good things for the game of golf.


I thought I saw some kind of headline the other day about problems with her wrists.

MaineRed
02-22-2008, 11:07 PM
Wie is currently going to school at Stanford and won't reach her prime for another 7-10 years. Calling her a flop at this point is jumping the gun a little.

Not sure about Leadbetter ruining her swing. Could be that way I guess. But people said the same thing about Hank Haney and Tiger. Michelle shouldn't be hammered because she had some success as a 14 year old. Golf is not an easy game, she has had the wrist problem and she is a freshman at Stanford.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else ever been called a HUGE flop while in their freshmen year at Stanford?

Redhook
02-23-2008, 12:11 AM
Wie is currently going to school at Stanford and won't reach her prime for another 7-10 years. Calling her a flop at this point is jumping the gun a little.

Not sure about Leadbetter ruining her swing. Could be that way I guess. But people said the same thing about Hank Haney and Tiger. Michelle shouldn't be hammered because she had some success as a 14 year old. Golf is not an easy game, she has had the wrist problem and she is a freshman at Stanford.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else ever been called a HUGE flop while in their freshmen year at Stanford?

I don't think she's a flop at all and I hope you weren't referring to me. I don't think you were. She's a hell of player. I've watched her in person multiple times. She's good.

Leadbetter is ruining her swing. I'm pretty confident in my opinion on that. I'm a golf instructor so I have an idea of what I'm talking about. Her swing was much better before she met Lead. Now, it's fast and furious and all out of sorts. She keeps hitting it low and left due to her quick transition and hanging back on her downswing.

I think she's a bright girl and will do just fine. She's a multi-millionaire already and is in school at Stanford. Not bad if you ask me. Hopefully her posse will allow to grow and play tournaments better suited to make her successful long-term.

Redhook
02-23-2008, 12:14 AM
I thought I saw some kind of headline the other day about problems with her wrists.

She had some serious wrist problems last year. I don't know if that caused her poor play, but it's hard to play good golf when your wrists hurt. I've had to withdrawal from several tournaments from bad wrists. When you're scared and hesistant to hit the ground because your wrists hurt, it's virtually impossible to play well.

I think her wrists are doing better now. With her you never know though. I wouldn't be surprised if she faked some of the wrist injuries to excuse her poor play last year.

BTW, she's duck-hooking all over the place right now. I wish I could give her a tip or two because her swing is off right now.

RANDY IN INDY
02-23-2008, 09:15 AM
Leadbetter is ruining her swing. I'm pretty confident in my opinion on that.

Every time that I have ever read anything about the swing from David Leadbetter, and tried to apply it to my game, I have had terrible results to the point of having to almost start all over. I don't listen or read anything Leadbetter puts out. I cringe every time I hear his name. His stuff is definitely not for everyone.

Highlifeman21
02-24-2008, 12:04 PM
Every time that I have ever read anything about the swing from David Leadbetter, and tried to apply it to my game, I have had terrible results to the point of having to almost start all over. I don't listen or read anything Leadbetter puts out. I cringe every time I hear his name. His stuff is definitely not for everyone.

That's what happens when you teach a cookie-cutter swing, rather than help each individual find a swing that works for them.

Leadbetter is the type of teacher you go to if you have a specific advanced topic in your swing to work on and attempt to correct or improve. He's the exact teacher you want to avoid at all costs if you have no idea what's going on with your swing and or you have no idea how you want to get better.

flyer85
06-26-2008, 01:55 PM
currently playing in the 1st round of the womens US open

+7 (77th out of 78 on the course)

Starting to look like a career may be finished before it ever got started. Thanks Dad.

Matt700wlw
06-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Natalie Gulbis.

That is all.

SunDeck
06-26-2008, 04:54 PM
Natalie Gulbis.

That is all.

Careful- you might make this guy mad. And that seems like a bad idea.

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/55326882.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CE5203F0E06541875A A40A659CEC4C8CB6

Matt700wlw
06-26-2008, 05:05 PM
I could take the red X :)

Redhook
06-26-2008, 10:05 PM
I'll tell you what. When I caddied out there on the LPGA a few years it was hilarious to see Natalie and her dad walking side by side. Here's this gorgeous blond dressed to perfection with this long-haired hillbilly biker dude following her around. It just didn't make sense, but it happened every week.

I used to stand by Wie, but what the hell is wrong with her? Yes, her parents and her posse have made some poor decisions, but still, she shouldn't be shooting the scores she's shooting. She should be able to be a top 5 player easily with her talent. I hope she rebounds because she's good for women's golf when she's on.

Highlifeman21
06-26-2008, 10:33 PM
I'll tell you what. When I caddied out there on the LPGA a few years it was hilarious to see Natalie and her dad walking side by side. Here's this gorgeous blond dressed to perfection with this long-haired hillbilly biker dude following her around. It just didn't make sense, but it happened every week.

I used to stand by Wie, but what the hell is wrong with her? Yes, her parents and her posse have made some poor decisions, but still, she shouldn't be shooting the scores she's shooting. She should be able to be a top 5 player easily with her talent. I hope she rebounds because she's good for women's golf when she's on.

It's quite possible that golf is not even remotely a priority on the radar screen that is Michelle Wie's life.

She's set for life thanks to Nike throwing boatloads of money at her. She has great natural ability, but from what I've heard/read/what have you, she just has no drive or desire. She takes her game for granted, and b/c of that she's inconsistent.

Michelle has the ability to be one of the best ever. But does she want to?

MaineRed
06-26-2008, 10:57 PM
She is 18 years old. Leave her alone.

Hoosier Red
06-29-2008, 10:21 AM
I'm in the camp that believes 5 years from now she'll be a top 5 player.

She's played very well in the last two tournaments but the Open is one tough mother.

Redhook
06-29-2008, 10:55 AM
I'm in the camp that believes 5 years from now she'll be a top 5 player.

She's played very well in the last two tournaments but the Open is one tough mother.

It would be convenient for the LPGA if Wie gets back to form later this year or next with Annika retiring.

Wie has already been a Top 5 player. If and when she gets her confidence back she should quickly get back to being a top 5 player. She's light years ahead of everyone else, besides Ochoa, in talent. I'd love to see her maximize it.

Redhook
07-19-2008, 04:22 PM
It would be convenient for the LPGA if Wie gets back to form later this year or next with Annika retiring.

Wie has already been a Top 5 player. If and when she gets her confidence back she should quickly get back to being a top 5 player. She's light years ahead of everyone else, besides Ochoa, in talent. I'd love to see her maximize it.

Wie is -17 through 3 rounds this week. One back of the lead in 2nd place. She is back to form already. I'm surprised she's playing so well this early, but I'm certainly happy for her. It would be great if she won tomorrow.

Highlifeman21
07-19-2008, 05:47 PM
Wie is -17 through 3 rounds this week. One back of the lead in 2nd place. She is back to form already. I'm surprised she's playing so well this early, but I'm certainly happy for her. It would be great if she won tomorrow.

Would it be better for her, or better for the LPGA Tour?

Redhook
07-19-2008, 06:01 PM
Would it be better for her, or better for the LPGA Tour?

Probably for her, but now we won't know.

Wie just got DQ'd for not signing her scorecard on Friday. Wow!! What a bad time for that huge mistake. Just when she rediscovered her game she gets DQ'd being one back of the lead. Pretty sad.

Chip R
07-19-2008, 06:26 PM
Probably for her, but now we won't know.

Wie just got DQ'd for not signing her scorecard on Friday. Wow!! What a bad time for that huge mistake. Just when she rediscovered her game she gets DQ'd being one back of the lead. Pretty sad.


Wow!

Hoosier Red
07-19-2008, 06:35 PM
How is it possible for the tournament director not to hear about this until the next day?

Who brings it up after she teed off the next day but didn't bring it up the night before?

flyer85
07-19-2008, 07:14 PM
the kind of thing you can have happen when you never had learned how to win, had a great round and lost focus. She signed her scorecard but it was AFTER she left the scoring area ... leaving the scoring area without signing is an automatic DQ. The fact she signed it after someone brought it to her after she left the area just shows how confused(and likely immature) she is. She had to know she was done.

Would she have admitted the error if someone hadn't informed the LPGA?

It is troubling that she did not immediately turn herself in at the time of the incident.

Highlifeman21
07-19-2008, 08:53 PM
Good job Michelle.

I'm so proud of you.

flyer85
07-19-2008, 08:58 PM
Good job Michelle.

I'm so proud of you.she's 18 and has a lot of growing up yet to do(rationalizing something like not following the rules iin signing for your score is an example of a lack of maturity).

Her parents have done he no favors in the way they have handled her. She just needs some more time as she has had a ton thrust upon her at a young age

Kingspoint
07-19-2008, 09:16 PM
Michelle Wie.......Ha! Ha!

MaineRed
07-19-2008, 09:57 PM
Good job Michelle.

I'm so proud of you.

Playing on the LPGA tour > Living on Redszone

Highlifeman21
07-20-2008, 09:30 AM
Playing on the LPGA tour > Living on Redszone

So far she's a monumental waste of talent. Maybe once she actually starts playing on the LPGA Tour, you might have a leg on which to stand, but right now, she's an immature little girl going to Stanford while trying to play some pro golf here and there, b/c she was too stupid to play college golf, got greedy and took Nike's money.

Good for her.

Again, I'm so proud.

Hoosier Red
07-20-2008, 12:51 PM
She got greedy?

You're actually telling me you would have turned down $50 million?
And you would have done this to play college golf?

Sure.

Endorsements aside, she has earned her super phenom position considering when she was 16 she made enough money to qualify for the LPGA tour despite playing in only 8 tournaments.

Consider that year, she finished no worse than 5th in the first three tournaments. So keeping in mind that she's already accomplished more in her 18 years than I have in my life, it's hard for me to call her greedy to take the money.

That said, her 2007 was a disaster. There's no getting around it.
Her 2008 hasn't been wonderful(2 missed cuts and a DQ) but she certainly hasn't played poorly for any long periods of time.

I said before that she'd be a top 5 player for inside of 5 years. I now think that timeline moves up. Whatever year she moves full time to the tour again, she'll be a top 5 player.

Maybe then she'll have lived up to your high standards.

Highlifeman21
07-20-2008, 01:47 PM
She got greedy?

You're actually telling me you would have turned down $50 million?
And you would have done this to play college golf?

Sure.

Endorsements aside, she has earned her super phenom position considering when she was 16 she made enough money to qualify for the LPGA tour despite playing in only 8 tournaments.

Consider that year, she finished no worse than 5th in the first three tournaments. So keeping in mind that she's already accomplished more in her 18 years than I have in my life, it's hard for me to call her greedy to take the money.

That said, her 2007 was a disaster. There's no getting around it.
Her 2008 hasn't been wonderful(2 missed cuts and a DQ) but she certainly hasn't played poorly for any long periods of time.

I said before that she'd be a top 5 player for inside of 5 years. I now think that timeline moves up. Whatever year she moves full time to the tour again, she'll be a top 5 player.

Maybe then she'll have lived up to your high standards.

I probably would have taken the money as well, but she won NOTHING as an amateur, and was a PR showpiece for the LPGA and PGA Tour before she graduated HS. I hate to say it, but she was a ***** for Nike, and the 2 Tours. They basically just pimped her to make revenues in various capacities.

Her game is still raw, and she could have greatly benefitted from some college golf, but she chose the coin instead. Can I blame her? Of course not. What kid still in HS would turn down that kinda money? But, I would hope that she would have another humility and sensibility to realize that if she wants some staying power on the LPGA Tour, she needs a place to refine her game. College would have been a great avenue for just that...

It's not that I have high standards for her, but rather I see a gifted young athlete that could redefine the LPGA Tour. You're absolutely correct that within 5 years she could be a Top 5 talent, but I firmly believe that if she allowed herself a couple years of college golf, she could have hit the ground running on the LPGA Tour, rather than showing massive inconsistencies in her game. She easily could have taken a page out of Tiger's playbook and just played a few years of college golf. But instead she took the money. And like I said, I can't blame her.

That being said, I'd love for her to emerge as a Tiger-like talent for the LPGA Tour, and completely change the game there. I'd love for her to replace Ochoa and Sorenstam and be dominant for decades. Again, if my standards are high for her, that's b/c of the talent she possesses. I believe she can be the best ever in the history of the LPGA. She just has to mature first. Will that happen? Only time will tell.

I just don't want her becoming the Anna Kournakova of the LPGA Tour, that's all.

Hoosier Red
07-20-2008, 01:55 PM
I just don't want her becoming the Anna Kournakova of the LPGA Tour, that's all.

THat's fair.

I'm just curious though, forgetting to sign your scorecard doesn't scream out as an "immature" thing to do. If any other player does it, it's a footnote, analagous to carrying 14 clubs in her bag.

flyer85
07-20-2008, 04:27 PM
THat's fair.

I'm just curious though, forgetting to sign your scorecard doesn't scream out as an "immature" thing to do. If any other player does it, it's a footnote, analagous to carrying 14 clubs in her bag.it's the fact that she signed the scorecard after the fact and let the volunteers take it back and turn it in. When she was notified she forgot to sign she should have immediately went to tourney officials with the unsigned score card and explain what had happend. She knew it was wrong I assume she rationalized as not a big deal since the score was correct, however, golf is a game of honor and rules and she ignored them and then did not report her violation. The officials only found out after someone"turned her in".

Redhook
07-20-2008, 04:51 PM
she won NOTHING as an amateur.

She actually won the US Amateur Publinx. And I think she was very young when she did so, somewhere 13-15. The same tournament on the men's side would get someone in the Master's.

Redhook
07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
I probably would have taken the money as well, but she won NOTHING as an amateur, and was a PR showpiece for the LPGA and PGA Tour before she graduated HS. I hate to say it, but she was a ***** for Nike, and the 2 Tours. They basically just pimped her to make revenues in various capacities.

Her game is still raw, and she could have greatly benefitted from some college golf, but she chose the coin instead. Can I blame her? Of course not. What kid still in HS would turn down that kinda money? But, I would hope that she would have another humility and sensibility to realize that if she wants some staying power on the LPGA Tour, she needs a place to refine her game. College would have been a great avenue for just that...

It's not that I have high standards for her, but rather I see a gifted young athlete that could redefine the LPGA Tour. You're absolutely correct that within 5 years she could be a Top 5 talent, but I firmly believe that if she allowed herself a couple years of college golf, she could have hit the ground running on the LPGA Tour, rather than showing massive inconsistencies in her game. She easily could have taken a page out of Tiger's playbook and just played a few years of college golf. But instead she took the money. And like I said, I can't blame her.

That being said, I'd love for her to emerge as a Tiger-like talent for the LPGA Tour, and completely change the game there. I'd love for her to replace Ochoa and Sorenstam and be dominant for decades. Again, if my standards are high for her, that's b/c of the talent she possesses. I believe she can be the best ever in the history of the LPGA. She just has to mature first. Will that happen? Only time will tell.

I just don't want her becoming the Anna Kournakova of the LPGA Tour, that's all.

I hear what you're saying. But I disagree that college golf would've helped her. She is too good for it. The problem with her started with her idiotic parents and posse getting her to play in tournaments she shouldn't have been playing in. Her parents haven't let her make a decision in 18 years. I don't blame Michelle, I blame BJ and her mom.

While brief, Wie has already been ranked in the Top 5 and I actually think she earned it.

I do agree that she should be the best ever. She's ridiculously long for a female. Who knows what's going to happen? It would've been nice if she would've won this week to see how it change her career.

Highlifeman21
07-20-2008, 09:26 PM
THat's fair.

I'm just curious though, forgetting to sign your scorecard doesn't scream out as an "immature" thing to do. If any other player does it, it's a footnote, analagous to carrying 14 clubs in her bag.

If Michelle Wie had played in more tournaments on any level leading up to the LPGA Tour, she'd be more familiar with the protocol at the end of a round. Immaturity, inexperience, call it what you will, but she just doesn't have enough tourneys under her belt.

I'm not sure I would lump her not signing the card in the tent into the "immaturity" category, as much as I would lump it into "lack of focus". She really comes across as a little girl (which she is) who would rather be at the mall than playing golf (which might not be far from the truth). It's very possible she doesn't know how good she is and is on cruise control with her game.

The biggest reason I wish she had gone to college to play college golf was that she learned tourney rules and protocols. College golf is a great training/proving ground to transition to a pro career in terms of rules, regulations and things of the like. She'll only learn that stuff through repetition, and playing largely on sparse sponsors exemptions she won't get the reps she needs.

Highlifeman21
07-20-2008, 09:28 PM
She actually won the US Amateur Publinx. And I think she was very young when she did so, somewhere 13-15. The same tournament on the men's side would get someone in the Master's.

Did she? I thought she lost in the Semis at Shaker Run.

I still don't think she played enough Junior golf.

MWM
07-20-2008, 09:51 PM
Did she? I thought she lost in the Semis at Shaker Run.

I still don't think she played enough Junior golf.

She won the female one when she was something like 13.

Redhook
07-20-2008, 10:47 PM
Did she? I thought she lost in the Semis at Shaker Run.

I still don't think she played enough Junior golf.

The one at Shaker was against the boys.....which was damn impressive. She won the girls a few years back.

MaineRed
07-21-2008, 11:00 PM
She won it in 2003. She was 13.

She got as high as number 2 in the world.

She finished in the top five in every major a couple of years ago.

I agree that college golf would have been a waste of time and not worth what they would have been giving up.

Had she elected to play college golf, how many tourneys would she have played in, lets say, two years? 10-15? Hasn't she played in that many pro tournaments during that time? How is she not gaining the same amount of experience in how to properly sign the scorecard on the LPGA tour as she would if she was on the Stanford women's team? The only difference I see is that a mistake like that in college would have cost her teammates as much as her while on tour it is all on the individual.

The girl seems to have a good head on her shoulders and if she wants to go to the mall instead of beat balls on the range, good for her. Why should she be under any more pressure to get her game in order as a law student in his junior year is to pass the bar ASAP? 21 year old med students aren't asked to perform open heart surgery. Give the girl a break.

Hoosier Red
07-21-2008, 11:05 PM
As for the parents who never learn...

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1825090,00.html

It sounds like BJ is getting some serious pressure from the bosses at Nike.

"I think the qualifying conflicts with school, so I probably won't go to that," Wie said last month at the U.S. Women's Open in Minnesota. But that was when she had greater hopes of winning enough money to become exempt for next year.

Her father made it sound as though Q-school was a distinct possibility at the time.

"What other options do we have?" he said.

Now if she were an aspiring NBA player, we'd talk about what a great perspective.

Redsfaithful
07-23-2008, 02:30 AM
I don't know if Wie is on the right path or not, but I thought this was funny:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/the-50-hottest-female-golfers-of-all-time/

They have her ranked the 8th hottest golfer of all time:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/the-50-hottest-female-golfers-of-all-time-10-1/

I'm kind of partial to Anna Rawson and Paula Creamer myself.

Redhook
07-23-2008, 08:58 AM
I don't know if Wie is on the right path or not, but I thought this was funny:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/the-50-hottest-female-golfers-of-all-time/

They have her ranked the 8th hottest golfer of all time:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/the-50-hottest-female-golfers-of-all-time-10-1/

I'm kind of partial to Anna Rawson and Paula Creamer myself.

Wow, that list was brutal. Morgan Pressel in the top 10? :laugh:

MWM
07-23-2008, 10:05 AM
I'm kind of partial to Anna Rawson and Paula Creamer myself.

Ahhhhh, me likey Paula. She's got a cute face and all, but...... :D

Highlifeman21
07-23-2008, 01:52 PM
Wow, that list was brutal. Morgan Pressel in the top 10? :laugh:

Top 25 for Morgan would be generous.

Redhook
02-13-2009, 07:12 AM
*bump*

She's baaaaack.

Wie shot 66 yesterday in Hawaii and is one back of the leader, Angela Stanford. It's only a 3 round tournament which increases the chances of Wie winning, IMO. Less time to stress.

I'll be curious to see what happens the next 2 days.

Highlifeman21
02-13-2009, 02:19 PM
*bump*

She's baaaaack.

Wie shot 66 yesterday in Hawaii and is one back of the leader, Angela Stanford. It's only a 3 round tournament which increases the chances of Wie winning, IMO. Less time to stress.

I'll be curious to see what happens the next 2 days.

... admit it, you own a Michelle Wie FatHead

Redhook
02-13-2009, 07:51 PM
... admit it, you own a Michelle Wie FatHead

:laugh:

I do own one, but I had to take it down after I got married. After Michelle wins this week I'll put it back up over the fire place.

BTW, she's in first right now.

MWM
02-14-2009, 07:29 PM
If Michelle Wie has matured and can actually get over the hump with a win or two, that could spell trouble for the LPGA.

flyer85
02-14-2009, 10:46 PM
If Michelle Wie has matured and can actually get over the hump with a win or two, that could spell trouble for the LPGA.if she had been handled right instead of going for the cash she would already know how to win. Instead she continually spits the bit when she gets in contention in the final round. She is still likely to very good but IMO she could have been much more. She doesn't have the Tiger killer insinct and belief in winning.

Michele just doesn't have the certainty that she is better, has more talent and WILL prevail.

Redhook
02-14-2009, 11:45 PM
That was rough for Michelle. She had a 3-shot lead with 8 to go and couldn't pull it off. I thought she was going to win. Double on 11 and a missed 3-foot birdie putt on 16 derailed her chances.

Meanwhile, Stanford played solid down the stretch. Even though I've caddied for Angela in the past, I still wanted Wie to win. I'm very happy for Angela and her rise to a near Top 5 player, but I want to Wie to shove it to all the nay-sayers. She's still only 19 and has 5 Top 10's in majors. She's an amazing player who will win in the near future. I foresee her being the #1 women's player in the world by the end of 2010. Once she wins once, they'll come quite often, similar to David Duval about 10 years ago.

RFS62
02-15-2009, 07:28 AM
That was rough for Michelle. She had a 3-shot lead with 8 to go and couldn't pull it off. I thought she was going to win. Double on 11 and a missed 3-foot birdie putt on 16 derailed her chances.

Meanwhile, Stanford played solid down the stretch. Even though I've caddied for Angela in the past, I still wanted Wie to win. I'm very happy for Angela and her rise to a near Top 5 player, but I want to Wie to shove it to all the nay-sayers. She's still only 19 and has 5 Top 10's in majors. She's an amazing player who will win in the near future. I foresee her being the #1 women's player in the world by the end of 2010. Once she wins once, they'll come quite often, similar to David Duval about 10 years ago.


Amazing what we demand of a 19 year old. I agree with you, I too think she'll be number 1.

Any of us think we'd have handled the stage any better at her age?

Hoosier Red
02-16-2009, 01:59 PM
if she had been handled right instead of going for the cash she would already know how to win. Instead she continually spits the bit when she gets in contention in the final round. She is still likely to very good but IMO she could have been much more. She doesn't have the Tiger killer insinct and belief in winning.

Michele just doesn't have the certainty that she is better, has more talent and WILL prevail.

Neither did Tiger at her age.

I think the competition is less stiff, but she's accomplished far more at 19 on the LPGA tour than he had on the PGA tour.

flyer85
02-17-2009, 10:16 PM
Neither did Tiger at her age.

I think the competition is less stiff, but she's accomplished far more at 19 on the LPGA tour than he had on the PGA tour.Tiger was learning how to win at the amateur level when he was 19. Wie was never afforded that opportunity by her handlers. They set her up for early failure. The LPGA has seen a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds win in recent years ... 5 years ago who would have predicted that Wie would not yet be one of them. Now she gets to learn the hard way, by spitting the bit time and time again until she figures out what it takes to play under pressure and win in the final round.

bucksfan2
02-18-2009, 09:49 AM
Tiger was learning how to win at the amateur level when he was 19. Wie was never afforded that opportunity by her handlers. They set her up for early failure. The LPGA has seen a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds win in recent years ... 5 years ago who would have predicted that Wie would not yet be one of them. Now she gets to learn the hard way, by spitting the bit time and time again until she figures out what it takes to play under pressure and win in the final round.

Phil also learned how to win at the amateur level and the college level. It took him years to learn how to win the big one. One stupid, stupid mistake in the US Open has set him back years. Ironically he hasn't competed in a major since his tank job at the US Open.

Tiger just had that mental capacity and the desire to dominate that separates him from the rest of the pack. When Tiger is up he goes for the kill shot. When others are up they just try to hold on. Wie may be a great golfer she may just not have that "next level" that the greats had.

MWM
02-18-2009, 10:10 AM
She's 19.

flyer85
02-18-2009, 11:22 AM
Phil also learned how to win at the amateur level and the college level. It took him years to learn how to win the big one. phil won a bunch of times from the moment he stepped on the tour, his not winning a major was different. It was due to his lack of course management(which is much more critical in a major championship), not his ability to perform under pressure.

Wie will likely learn how to win and be a great LPGA player(as long as the tour survives) but she certainly wasn't handled very well.

Redhook
08-29-2010, 10:50 PM
*Bump*

Wie won her 2nd LPGA event today. Good for her. I'm happy for her. She's had some serious ups and downs over the past few years. It's nice to see people bounce back after tough times.

Slyder
09-03-2010, 12:06 AM
*Bump*

Wie won her 2nd LPGA event today. Good for her. I'm happy for her. She's had some serious ups and downs over the past few years. It's nice to see people bounce back after tough times.

Case study A of what happens with mommy and daddy are a little too inolved in the agent side of things (and playing against the men screwing up her swing). Good for her to perciver and to win.