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reds44
06-06-2007, 11:50 PM
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but Jerry Narron continues to brutally mismanage games.

What the heck was Arroyo doing out there in the 7th inning? He started the inning with over 100 pitches, then he gives up a homer to Ludwick. Then with a 120 pitches Narron lets him pithc to Pujols? Narron needs to go.

Marcus McBeth looked great. You couldn't tell it was his debut. Hopefully we see more of him.

Hamilton is great to watch at the dish. He knows how to hit. He has a great eye, and takes the ball to all fields.

What a play by Phillips to rob Edmonds of an RBI.


We lost again, and until Narron is gone I don't see things changing. Ho hum. At least the draft is tomorrow.

NorrisHopper30
06-06-2007, 11:54 PM
I don't mean to be defending Narron, but what would you have said if he brought in a reliever and he gave up 3 runs?

It was the bottom of the order and he believed Arroyo could get through it.

I do disagree keeping him in there for Pujols there though, especially after he gave up that HR to that nobody pinch hitter.

danken12
06-06-2007, 11:54 PM
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but Jerry Narron continues to brutally mismanage games.

What the heck was Arroyo doing out there in the 7th inning? He started the inning with over 100 pitches, then he gives up a homer to Ludwick. Then with a 120 pitches Narron lets him pithc to Pujols? Narron needs to go.

Marcus McBeth looked great. You couldn't tell it was his debut. Hopefully we see more of him.

Hamilton is great to watch at the dish. He knows how to hit. He has a great eye, and takes the ball to all fields.

What a play by Phillips to rob Edmonds of an RBI.


We lost again, and until Narron is gone I don't see things changing. Ho hum. At least the draft is tomorrow.


I agree with this assessment. However, do you really trust anyone to go out there and get Pujols out in that position. I turned the channel before he came up because I was thinking the worst. Flipped back and he was trotting around third. This is pretty much getting to be monotonous. To also add, McBeth showed his changeup, getting those popups. He showed nice poise for someone making their debut.

reds44
06-06-2007, 11:55 PM
I don't mean to be defending Narron, but what would you have said if he brought in a reliever and he gave up 3 runs?

Depends which reliever it was.

Stanton? Yes.
Majewski? Yes.

McBeth should have been brought in to start the 7th. Then you go with Coffey and Coutlangus in the 8th.

reds44
06-06-2007, 11:56 PM
I agree with this assessment. However, do you really trust anyone to go out there and get Pujols out in that position. I turned the channel before he came up because I was thinking the worst. Flipped back and he was trotting around third. This is pretty much getting to be monotonous.
I would have rather anybody not named Stanton or Majewski face Pujols then a tired Arroyo.

I said before the innign Arroyo should have been out, and McBeth in.

Screwball
06-07-2007, 12:05 AM
Depends which reliever it was.

Stanton? Yes.
Majewski? Yes.

McBeth should have been brought in to start the 7th. Then you go with Coffey and Coutlangus in the 8th.

Dude, I know you're a huge McBeth supporter (I really like the kid too), but you have to realize it was going to be his first ever major league appearance. The kid's already going to be nervous to death, and bringing him in to pitch in a game where the Reds are leading by 1 and trying to snap a 3 game losing streak probably wouldn't have been the most prudent course of action.

BoCcc2832
06-07-2007, 12:09 AM
Jerry Narron is still living in the dream world as we all are that Bronson Arroyo showed us last year. I'm beginning to think that last year was a fluke and that Arroyo has regressed back to the mediocre pitcher he was with Boston. Either that, or Arroyo's arm hurts (which it doesn't appear to) or Arroyo has just plain lost his stuff completely.

danken12
06-07-2007, 12:10 AM
yeah, I'd say there was absolutely no chance of McBeth coming in w/ a 1 run lead. It's either a tired Arroyo or the usual suspects.

reds44
06-07-2007, 12:16 AM
Dude, I know you're a huge McBeth supporter (I really like the kid too), but you have to realize it was going to be his first ever major league appearance. The kid's already going to be nervous to death, and bringing him in to pitch in a game where the Reds are leading by 1 and trying to snap a 3 game losing streak probably wouldn't have been the most prudent course of action.
I know it's his first ever appearance, but he's still a better option then Majewski and Stanton.

WMR
06-07-2007, 12:17 AM
Jerry Narron continues to amaze me with his buffoonery. Sending Arroyo out for the 7th inning was just plain dumb.

Whether or not you're confident in your bullpen is beside the point.

Abusing Arroyo to the point where his arm is irrevocably damaged is becoming a distinct possibility.

He is not right and hasn't been so for the past 3 weeks, so what does Jerry do? Allow him to exit after 100 or so pitches and a decent performance? Of course not.

Screwball
06-07-2007, 12:18 AM
Jerry Narron is still living in the dream world as we all are that Bronson Arroyo showed us last year. I'm beginning to think that last year was a fluke and that Arroyo has regressed back to the mediocre pitcher he was with Boston. Either that, or Arroyo's arm hurts (which it doesn't appear to) or Arroyo has just plain lost his stuff completely.

I find it very hard to believe that lasy year was a fluke. He had one of the lowest ERAs of any starter in the NL this year as well after about 8 or so starts. But then BAM!, after a 130 pitch CG loss to the Padres, he's been a completely different pitcher. His control isn't there, his curveballs and sliders aren't breaking like they used to, and the result has been very bad. I find all of that be more than just a big coincidence and that all of the sudden, the league has figured him out.

reds44
06-07-2007, 12:20 AM
Jerry Narron continues to amaze me with his buffoonery. Sending Arroyo out for the 7th inning was just plain dumb.

Whether or not you're confident in your bullpen is beside the point.

Abusing Arroyo to the point where his arm is irrevocably damaged is becoming a distinct possibility.

He is not right and hasn't been so for the past 3 weeks, so what does Jerry do? Allow him to exit after 100 or so pitches and a decent performance? Of course not.
He's a manager managing to save his job. That's not good for Harang and Arroyo and Weathers and Homer.

Mutaman
06-07-2007, 12:30 AM
Jerry Naron is not whats wrong with this team or this organization and its going to take awhile to clean up the mess left by the Banana Man and his lackies. That being said, its pretty clear Jerry is in over his head and isn't helping things. Harang, Arroyo, and hopefully Homer, are our future, and i just hope Jerry does not screw any of these guys up.

nw_ohio_fan
06-07-2007, 12:37 AM
I think there is something wrong with Bronson. My gut says he's not a bad pitcher. Look at last year. I really think something is wrong.

Ludwig Reds Fan
06-07-2007, 08:55 AM
so which is it, in your opinion?

Has the league just "figured Bronson out?"

or did Narron really mess up his arm?

Or perhaps a combination of both?

Caseyfan21
06-07-2007, 09:06 AM
I actually have to defend Narron on this one (kind of crazy I know). Bronson was pretty much done and, assuming we had an average bullpen he would have been taken out, but you just have to count on the bullpen giving up at least 2-5 runs every game. With a 1 run lead that means turning it over to the bullpen will result in a loss. Unfortunately there is no one in the bullpen that has proven this year to be able to get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. We know, Jerry knows, the bullpen knows. He has to ride his starters out longer than normal because that's the best chance the Reds have of keeping that one run lead. Is it smart? Nope, but the truth is odds are very good the bullpen blows the lead just like they blew a tie game the previous night.

eastkyred
06-07-2007, 12:20 PM
I also didn't have a problem with Arroyo coming out to pitch the 7th, but letting him face Pujols was ridiculous. Narron has terrible judgment when it comes to recognizing if a pitcher has his good stuff, or when a starter is done. I understand the arguement that there is no one to put in because you don't trust the bullpen, but what about Weathers? I would have brought Weathers in to face Pujols in that situation, and if he gets Pujols, he can pitch the 8th as well. What is the point of saving your closer, who is better suited for the 7th and 8th inning anyway, if you never get to 9th inning with the lead?

dsmith421
06-07-2007, 12:56 PM
At this stage, the Reds need to get rid of Narron if, for no other reason, to protect the long-term investments they've made in Harang and Arroyo.

Whoever comes in needs to be told that the health of these two pitchers (and Bailey) is paramount over the result of any one regular season game.

durl
06-07-2007, 06:00 PM
Pitchers can ask to come out at any time (and have this season) if they believe they don't have what it takes to get batters out.

eastkyred
06-07-2007, 06:35 PM
Pitchers can ask to come out at any time (and have this season) if they believe they don't have what it takes to get batters out.

True, but you can't blame Arroyo for not taking himself out. He's a competitor, he probably didn't want to come out. It's Narron's job to be able to see when he needs to come out, regardless of what the pitcher says.