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redsfan4445
06-07-2007, 06:26 PM
per jason starks Latest.. (I got this from mlbtraderumors.com


Ken Griffey Jr. would approve a trade to Atlanta and might consider certain other teams. Junior is making $12.5MM this year and next, plus a $4MM buyout for '09. Quite a bit of the contract is deferred, also. $29MM over 2007-08 is still pretty steep, but now would be the right time to trade Griffey.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2896288


here is the article
"
Griffey
KEN GRIFFEY JR./ADAM DUNN
We're not sure it's even possible to fall out of the NL Central race. But the Reds have given it a try, by losing 25 of their last 34 games. If that full gainer continues for another few weeks, then get ready for the birds of prey to start circling over these two guys. An official of one team that inquired about Griffey says Griffey has informed the Reds he won't oppose a trade "in the right scenario." But outside of the Braves, a club he has told friends for years he'd go to, it's tough to say what he'd consider "the right scenario." So most clubs we've canvassed think the Reds are more likely to move Dunn, who is kind of their version of Teixeira, minus the Boras factor. The difference is that while Dunn wouldn't be a free agent until 2009 if he stays in Cincinnati, a trade would void his 2008 option year, allow him to hit the market this winter and make him strictly a half-year rent-a-player. So the price tag can't be as steep as Teixeira's. "

Matt700wlw
06-07-2007, 06:27 PM
Interesting

Heath
06-07-2007, 06:28 PM
per jason starks Latest.. (I got this from mlbtraderumors.com


Ken Griffey Jr. would approve a trade to Atlanta and might consider certain other teams. Junior is making $12.5MM this year and next, plus a $4MM buyout for '09. Quite a bit of the contract is deferred, also. $29MM over 2007-08 is still pretty steep, but now would be the right time to trade Griffey.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2896288


here is the article
"
Griffey
KEN GRIFFEY JR./ADAM DUNN
We're not sure it's even possible to fall out of the NL Central race. But the Reds have given it a try, by losing 25 of their last 34 games. If that full gainer continues for another few weeks, then get ready for the birds of prey to start circling over these two guys. An official of one team that inquired about Griffey says Griffey has informed the Reds he won't oppose a trade "in the right scenario." But outside of the Braves, a club he has told friends for years he'd go to, it's tough to say what he'd consider "the right scenario." So most clubs we've canvassed think the Reds are more likely to move Dunn, who is kind of their version of Teixeira, minus the Boras factor. The difference is that while Dunn wouldn't be a free agent until 2009 if he stays in Cincinnati, a trade would void his 2008 option year, allow him to hit the market this winter and make him strictly a half-year rent-a-player. So the price tag can't be as steep as Teixeira's. "

And that little bit of info tells me that he should be kept. The value will not be there for Dunn.

Matt700wlw
06-07-2007, 06:30 PM
And that little bit of info tells me that he should be kept. The value will not be there for Dunn.

Does Dunn even have the value we all wish he did? I'm thinking no.....but $13 million can be spent elsewhere.

Krivsky wants to build on pitching and defense....Adam Dunn does not fit that mold

RedEye
06-07-2007, 06:32 PM
If we can trade Junior to Atlanta for any kind of viable return, we have to do it. At this stage, this might be one of the last opportunities we have do get anything for him. I suppose we'd probably still have to pay a portion of his (lengthy deferred) contract, but that's okay. Much as I'd like him to play out his career for the Reds, it doesn't make sense for either Junior or the life of this franchise.

PS -- Thanks to everyone for voting me back into the ORG. I'm excited to be back in the fold!

Cyclone792
06-07-2007, 06:39 PM
Atlanta is one of the very few teams that make sense for Griffey himself on a personal level.

The Braves are in a pennant race, their spring training facility is very close to his Florida home, and Atlanta itself is a very short flight from his Florida home. The Braves may also have the financial flexibility and be willing to take on some of his contract.

One thing I wonder about Griffey is if he'll accept a trade to any team - including Atlanta - under the condition that they must also pick up his 2009 option. If he requires the option to be picked up to be traded, then that could be another problem with trying to move him.

KronoRed
06-07-2007, 07:04 PM
If that were to happen it wouldn't bother me in the least if the Reds offered to cover the majority of his salary for next season provided the return was good.

flyer85
06-07-2007, 07:07 PM
Does Dunn even have the value we all wish he did? I'm thinking no.....but $13 million can be spent elsewhere.
kind of like that $10M+ WK blew on Lohse, Cormier, Stanton, Castro, Conine.

Quantity does not = Quality

flyer85
06-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Jr + ??? for Saltalamacchia works for me

jojo
06-07-2007, 07:11 PM
Atlanta is one of the very few teams that make sense for Griffey himself on a personal level.

The Braves are in a pennant race, their spring training facility is very close to his Florida home, and Atlanta itself is a very short flight from his Florida home. The Braves may also have the financial flexibility and be willing to take on some of his contract.

One thing I wonder about Griffey is if he'll accept a trade to any team - including Atlanta - under the condition that they must also pick up his 2009 option. If he requires the option to be picked up to be traded, then that could be another problem with trying to move him.

I agree with you concerning the '09 option. Also Atlanta has adopted a new *fiscally sound* payroll philosophy so I'm not that certain Jr's '08 wouldn't be a stumbling block. They might actually bite on Dunn before Jr depending upon the asking prices. BTW Saltalamacchia has put up this line in about 50 at bats with the Braves: .304/.373/.478 after tearing up the southern league earlier in the year. I'm just not convinced they'll want to trade a young bat for an older one (lets face it neither Dunn or Jr would come with leather) especially when Salty would likely fetch something juicy with more of a shelf life.

Matt700wlw
06-07-2007, 07:32 PM
Jr + ??? for Saltalamacchia works for me

Today, the Reds drafted their catcher ;)

pedro
06-07-2007, 07:36 PM
I think this has always been the case.

The only "news" to it I suppose is that Griffey's close enough to the end of his contract and playing well enough that it's actually a possibility.

KronoRed
06-07-2007, 07:38 PM
Today, the Reds drafted their catcher ;)

Look forward to seeing him in 2012

Matt700wlw
06-07-2007, 07:43 PM
Look forward to seeing him in 2012

He'll only be 23....too young for this team ;)

KronoRed
06-07-2007, 07:44 PM
2022 then.

Anyway the Braves aren't going to give Salty to us for JR or Dunn or probably even both, we should aim for someone else.

gm
06-07-2007, 08:01 PM
I have a Braves friend who would have kittens if ATL acquires Junior (he's old-school baseball and has never forgiven Griffey for "disrespecting the game" by wearing his cap backwards and his jersey out while on the field, etc)

He's also a OSU Beaver-believer

M2
06-07-2007, 08:43 PM
I imagine at this point Jr. would approve a trade the Yakult Swallows.

RFS62
06-07-2007, 08:47 PM
Hey, he's a young 37

:cool:

Kc61
06-07-2007, 08:57 PM
And that little bit of info tells me that he should be kept. The value will not be there for Dunn.


Disagree. Dunn will have less value next year. If Reds exercise option next year, then Dunn will again be in a "walk year" -- a free agent after the season.

But next year he will also have no-trade protection, full until June, then limited (he can pick some teams to which he would approve a trade). This year, he he doesn't have trade protection.

If you "keep" Dunn next year, you pay him $13.5 million, he is a free agent after the year, he has no trade protection during the year.

M2
06-07-2007, 09:05 PM
If Dunn rakes the ball for a month, he'll fetch something tasty regardless of his contract situation.

D-Man
06-07-2007, 09:05 PM
Atlanta is the best fit for Griffey, no doubt. But another great destination for Griffey would be Baltimore. The O's are in dire need of a slugger, as the Camden OF is littered with guys who can hit. Plus, it is an East Coast team that plays spring training in FL, Griff could move to the DH when needed, and the O's are looking for a face of the franchise.

The guy I would be zeroing in on is Daniel Cabrera, assuming Bedard is off the table. Cabrera clearly has warts. But when (if?) he emerges, he will emerge in a big way.

Not sure Griff would approve of a trade to Baltimore. . . but it may be worth a shot.

Falls City Beer
06-07-2007, 09:08 PM
I seriously doubt Griffey or Dunn gets traded this season. I just can't see the market for them. Combine that with Wayne's recent spate of trade constipation, and I'd say the odds are poor he'll part with them, or rather, do the heavy lifting to sell (pimp?) either player for a good or fair return. Teams are going to be looking to scavenge off the Reds, not surrender things of worth.

jojo
06-07-2007, 09:36 PM
Atlanta is the best fit for Griffey, no doubt. But another great destination for Griffey would be Baltimore. The O's are in dire need of a slugger, as the Camden OF is littered with guys who can hit. Plus, it is an East Coast team that plays spring training in FL, Griff could move to the DH when needed, and the O's are looking for a face of the franchise.

The guy I would be zeroing in on is Daniel Cabrera, assuming Bedard is off the table. Cabrera clearly has warts. But when (if?) he emerges, he will emerge in a big way.

Not sure Griff would approve of a trade to Baltimore. . . but it may be worth a shot.

I have a difficult time believing the Os would give up even Cabrera... he's a young cheap arm with a high ceiling that is already putting up better than league average FIPs.

I might be completely misreading the trade market but why would a team that is already 10.5 games out trade 4 more cheap years of Cabrera for and expensive year and 3 months (plus a buyout) of Jr? BTW Bedard is one of the best arms in the majors. It's very safe to say that Jr doesnt net him. JR and Dunn doesn't net him.

Mainspark
06-07-2007, 10:07 PM
Here's Griffey trade speculation and it is no more than one man's speculation from Tom Covill of SBRForum.com....


1. Ken Griffey Jr. deserves the chance to win.

Griffey took less than market value years ago to play for his hometown Cincinnati Reds, but they have failed to build a winner around him and currently have the worst record in the National League. His annual injury problems have stolen away his status as an elite ballplayer, but his ability to hit home runs makes him a valuable commodity. Possible destinations include the Atlanta Braves, the Chicago White Sox and the Los Angeles Dodgers.

The Braves could use a left fielder with some power, but their ownership situation could prevent them from adding any serious salary at the trade deadline. Plus, if the Braves had the pitching the Reds would demand in return, they'd probably be using it right now. The Dodgers certainly need power and have prospects to give back, but they have no open holes right now in the outfield.

The White Sox just put their center fielder (Darin Erstad) on the disabled list and have gotten very little production out of any of the players they've tried in left. Chicago is unlikely to re-sign free-agent-to-be Mark Buehrle after the season, and the Reds certainly need pitching. If Cincinnati wants younger options, the White Sox have starters in the minors (Gio Gonzalez comes to mind) that the Reds would enjoy.

letsgojunior
06-07-2007, 10:21 PM
I'd still really like to see Jr traded to the Mets, or the Yanks if they can get their act together.

KronoRed
06-07-2007, 10:29 PM
Hey, he's a young 37

:cool:

Young body :thumbup:

letsgojunior
06-07-2007, 10:31 PM
If Dunn rakes the ball for a month, he'll fetch something tasty regardless of his contract situation.

agreed

redsmetz
06-08-2007, 04:14 AM
If we can trade Junior to Atlanta for any kind of viable return, we have to do it. At this stage, this might be one of the last opportunities we have do get anything for him. I suppose we'd probably still have to pay a portion of his (lengthy deferred) contract, but that's okay. Much as I'd like him to play out his career for the Reds, it doesn't make sense for either Junior or the life of this franchise.

PS -- Thanks to everyone for voting me back into the ORG. I'm excited to be back in the fold!

I think that Griffey's deferred money is already accounted for. They've been charging something towards it during the whole contract, IIRC; most likely in annuities.

RedsBaron
06-08-2007, 06:47 AM
kind of like that $10M+ WK blew on Lohse, Cormier, Stanton, Castro, Conine.

Quantity does not = Quality

Very true. Most of us believe the Reds should increase their budget for players, but it seems as if everytime a Reds GM is given extra money to spend, it is spent like a drunken sailor or Congressman.

Jaycint
06-08-2007, 08:34 AM
The White Sox just put their center fielder (Darin Erstad) on the disabled list and have gotten very little production out of any of the players they've tried in left. Chicago is unlikely to re-sign free-agent-to-be Mark Buehrle after the season, and the Reds certainly need pitching. If Cincinnati wants younger options, the White Sox have starters in the minors (Gio Gonzalez comes to mind) that the Reds would enjoy.

I think I'd be okay with Gio Gonzalez. He has shown an ability to miss bats (12K/9 so far this year in the Southern League), doesn't give up the long ball very often (0.87/9 coming into this season) and is only 21 yrs old. The question is how high he is ranked on the White Sox prospect list and are they willing to part with him?

Buerhle I am not quite as high on unless the Reds could work out something to extend him beyond this season before making the trade and I'm sure Buerhle would balk at that unless WK backed the Brinks truck up to his front door which I doubt would happen.

Heath
06-08-2007, 08:38 AM
I'd still really like to see Jr traded to the Mets, or the Yanks if they can get their act together.

Spoken like someone who lives near NY.


:D

GAC
06-08-2007, 09:06 AM
Atlanta has always been about the only team, due to Jr's location preference, that is a possibility. But I still see it as a very slim possibility due to the Brave's ownership and budget constraints.

D-Man
06-08-2007, 12:43 PM
I have a difficult time believing the Os would give up even Cabrera... he's a young cheap arm with a high ceiling that is already putting up better than league average FIPs.

I might be completely misreading the trade market but why would a team that is already 10.5 games out trade 4 more cheap years of Cabrera for and expensive year and 3 months (plus a buyout) of Jr? BTW Bedard is one of the best arms in the majors. It's very safe to say that Jr doesnt net him. JR and Dunn doesn't net him.

Here is the turd-like production the O's are getting out of the left half of the defensive spectrum:

DH: .714 OPS
1B: .666
LF: .627
RF: .778
CF: .620

This is most certainly *not* Earl Weaver's Orioles. The club is almost devoid of any slugging from these slots, so Griffey would be a huge upgrade for any one of those sinkholes. And the O's have previously shown interest in the past, targeted both Griffey and Dunn at various points.

As for why the O's might want to trade Cabrera, I can think of four reasons:

1.) He leads the league in walks and is 2nd in wild pitches. So once again, he is wild. Even his gamelogs are inconsistent. That probably wears thin after several seasons, particularly with Mazzone.
2.) He isn't a Mazzone type of pitcher--he isn't a soft-tossing junkballer, whom the ATL teams targeted when Mazzone was around. Burkett, Byrd, McMichael, Russ Springer. . . these were all junkballers. And the younger hard throwers in ATL were generally traded when they were young and still had value--Schmidt, Marquis, Belisle, etc. (Bruce Chen wasn't a hard thrower, but he was a project and certainly fit in this latter group.)
3.) Cabrera is arb-eligible ($1.8M salary), and yet he is likely three years away from turning the corner.
4.) If Jaret Wright ever comes off the DL, then will have six starting pitchers. Of the six, Wright and Cabrera would be the two worst, in terms of ERA. (Wright has negative value, so he isn't going anywhere.)

Other than that, it is little more than idle speculation on my part. There may be a good match. For the Reds, this makes sense because Cabrera is a guy that could front a World Series rotation team in three years.

Hollcat
06-08-2007, 01:47 PM
I can't see why Jr. would have any interest in playing in Baltimore.

Chip R
06-08-2007, 02:00 PM
I can't see why Jr. would have any interest in playing in Baltimore.


Maybe he likes crab cakes.

jojo
06-08-2007, 03:09 PM
Here is the turd-like production the O's are getting out of the left half of the defensive spectrum:

DH: .714 OPS
1B: .666
LF: .627
RF: .778
CF: .620

This is most certainly *not* Earl Weaver's Orioles. The club is almost devoid of any slugging from these slots, so Griffey would be a huge upgrade for any one of those sinkholes. And the O's have previously shown interest in the past, targeted both Griffey and Dunn at various points.

While I think you made some good points about the flaws with Cabrera, there are two organizational factors that need to be considered:

1. Peter Angelos has historically kept payroll low preferring to keep ticket prices low. That's his business model. This offseason the Os actually added a whopping $21M in payroll (which now stands at $94M). Angelos is not looking for ways to increase it even higher.

2. As a philosophy, the Os believe the only way they can win their division is with pitching.

So once again, why would a team that is clearly going no where want to trade young,cheap pitching in order to get older and more expensive (especially when considering the injury risk and likelyhood that the older they'd be getting wont sustain his current level of performance)?



1.) He leads the league in walks and is 2nd in wild pitches. So once again, he is wild. Even his gamelogs are inconsistent. That probably wears thin after several seasons, particularly with Mazzone.

Yet he's been at least league average at a very economical price.


2.) He isn't a Mazzone type of pitcher--he isn't a soft-tossing junkballer, whom the ATL teams targeted when Mazzone was around. Burkett, Byrd, McMichael, Russ Springer. . . these were all junkballers. And the younger hard throwers in ATL were generally traded when they were young and still had value--Schmidt, Marquis, Belisle, etc. (Bruce Chen wasn't a hard thrower, but he was a project and certainly fit in this latter group.)

True Mazzone and Cabrera don't seem to be buddies.


3.) Cabrera is arb-eligible ($1.8M salary), and yet he is likely three years away from turning the corner.

So he'll come into his own just in time for him to leave the Reds for free agency (the Os only control him for 3 more years after '07)? This is being facetious but some might argue, "why would you trade Jr for Cabrera?"


4.) If Jaret Wright ever comes off the DL, then will have six starting pitchers. Of the six, Wright and Cabrera would be the two worst, in terms of ERA. (Wright has negative value, so he isn't going anywhere.)

Jaret Wright was one of the worst relievers in the game in 2003 and it appears he's destined to end that way as well.

D-Man
06-08-2007, 04:04 PM
1. Peter Angelos has historically kept payroll low preferring to keep ticket prices low. That's his business model. This offseason the Os actually added a whopping $21M in payroll (which now stands at $94M). Angelos is not looking for ways to increase it even higher.

There are multiple ways to even out the money. The Reds could take Gibbons ($5M) and/or pay the deferred cash that Griffey is owed. If money is the sticking point, then it could be resolved on an even-swap basis.


So he'll come into his own just in time for him to leave the Reds for free agency (the Os only control him for 3 more years after '07)? This is being facetious but some might argue, "why would you trade Jr for Cabrera?"

Well, Cabrera *is* exactly the kind of guy the Reds FO should be targeting with a roll of the dice--a potential impact talent, one that can be bought low today (i.e., one with warts), one they would control for three years, and one that has at least a decent chance of reaching his ceiling. The Reds would be dealing from a position of strength and would be able to fill the OF hole via other means.

If the Red have any chance of competing in the next three years, the FO must go all-in on a risky bet or two. There just aren't enough potential impact talents on this team or on the farm, so the FO will have to take gambles on trades if it is serious about winning.

A Cabrera gamble is more palatable than, say, a trade for one or two mildly intriguing AA or AAA arms. Those AA or AAA trades fail far, far too frequently for my taste. A Cabrera gamble shortens a team's timeline for success and decreases its performance uncertainty (and improves the likelihood of success, to boot).

I'm sure this logic make sense to me only.

RedsManRick
06-08-2007, 04:41 PM
Cabrera reminds me a ton of Oliver Perez

jojo
06-08-2007, 07:09 PM
I'm sure this logic make sense to me only.

No. I understand where you're coming from....search back through the archives and you'll find posts where I advocate the Reds getting arms like Angel Guzman... we might disagree about the likelihood that the Os would trade for Jr but I don't disagree with your reasoning behind the idea.

wally post
06-08-2007, 07:10 PM
I'm thinking that if we paid Jr's salary (which we'd be doing anyway if we kept him) that Atlanta would be interested. And if Atlanta was interested, then the rival Mets would probably be interested as well. Of course, this is a fantasy since I doubt our illustrious from office will pay. They'd rather slip away into more mediocrity probably and save their sheckles. I say this philosophy is benny-wise / pound foolish because we have to pay him anyway.

KronoRed
06-08-2007, 07:15 PM
I'm thinking that if we paid Jr's salary (which we'd be doing anyway if we kept him) that Atlanta would be interested. And if Atlanta was interested, then the rival Mets would probably be interested as well. Of course, this is a fantasy since I doubt our illustrious from office will pay. They'd rather slip away into more mediocrity probably and save their sheckles. I say this philosophy is benny-wise / pound foolish because we have to pay him anyway.

John Allen still roams the hallways at GAB, we'll probably just be happy to get some cash back ;)

OldXOhio
06-09-2007, 07:15 PM
Chicago is unlikely to re-sign free-agent-to-be Mark Buehrle after the season, and the Reds certainly need pitching. If Cincinnati wants younger options, the White Sox have starters in the minors (Gio Gonzalez comes to mind) that the Reds would enjoy.

Younger options or perhaps someone they're not going to lose three months after they trade for him. Mentioning Buerhle as a potential target by a team that would be entering fire sale mode is mindless.