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BCubb2003
06-08-2007, 12:15 AM
A home run is not a rally killer, it's a rally accelerator.

The consequences of Juan Castro batting second were not what we expected.

It's amazing they could even finish the game with all those dead rallies littering the field.

Jerry Narron is like the pitcher who is taken out of the game after the bases are loaded on bloops and errors. It's not his fault he's in this mess, but he's not good enough to get out of it.

It's troubling that the worst team in baseball is better than I've ever been.

Those who say we root for laundry should read the Reds game in person from the '40s thread.

What would the Reds record be if Wayne Krivsky really was rebuilding the farm system instead of trying to win now at the major league level?

Bob Castellini must be taking part in some sort of sleep-deprivation experiment.

Someday all you young guys will meet somebody who wasn't alive when Homer Bailey first pitched in the majors.

If you were the manager, what moves would you make that RedsZone would bash you for?

Caveat Emperor
06-08-2007, 12:38 AM
Jerry Narron is like the pitcher who is taken out of the game after the bases are loaded on bloops and errors. It's not his fault he's in this mess, but he's not good enough to get out of it.

This might be the most appropriate description of Jerry Narron I've read in any medium.

RedsManRick
06-08-2007, 12:46 AM
A home run is not a rally killer, it's a rally accelerator.
Jerry Narron is like the pitcher who is taken out of the game after the bases are loaded on bloops and errors. It's not his fault he's in this mess, but he's not good enough to get out of it.

6 IP, 5 H, 4 BB, 5 R, 2 ER: 1 Loss

RedEye
06-08-2007, 12:53 AM
If you were the manager, what moves would you make that RedsZone would bash you for?


I would go with this maddeningly consistent line-up every single day without worrying about L-R matchups:

Freel
Phillips
Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I would keep doing this until I started getting bashed for it on RedsZone. Then I would stop and only do it six times a week.

BoydsOfSummer
06-08-2007, 01:03 AM
I would go with this maddeningly consistent line-up every single day without worrying about L-R matchups:

Freel
Phillips
Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I would keep doing this until I started getting bashed for it on RedsZone. Then I would stop and only do it six times a week.

Four lefties in a row? Are you mad, man?

Jerry wakes every night in a cold sweat, screaming... MOMMY!:scared: His wife asks him if he had the consecutive lefty dream again. Jerry replies, "Just hold me."

Patrick Bateman
06-08-2007, 01:08 AM
I would go with this maddeningly consistent line-up every single day without worrying about L-R matchups:

Freel
Phillips
Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I would keep doing this until I started getting bashed for it on RedsZone. Then I would stop and only do it six times a week.

I think Phillip's power is wasted there, and Hatteberg's on base skills is wasted in the 6th hole. Plus (I assume you forgot this) EE needs to be playing over Freel.

I'd go:

Hatteberg
Encarnacion
Griffey
Dunn
Phillips
Hamilton
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I think this is ideal because you have patient guys at the top, top producers in the middle, and guys who can knock in runs near the bottom. Plus, I think Phillips is close enough in ability with Hamilton, that you can even break up the lefties without sacrificing ability.

RedsBaron
06-08-2007, 06:42 AM
Freel is a terrible leadoff hitter, given his low OBP, and he shouldn't be playing thirdbase instead of EE.

RedsBaron
06-08-2007, 06:43 AM
Jerry Narron is like the pitcher who is taken out of the game after the bases are loaded on bloops and errors. It's not his fault he's in this mess, but he's not good enough to get out of it.

It's troubling that the worst team in baseball is better than I've ever been.

Those who say we root for laundry should read the Reds game in person from the '40s thread.



I loved those. :thumbup:

LoganBuck
06-08-2007, 07:08 AM
I can't recall but weren't there actually stats dug up somewhere that said a leadoff homerun actually was a rally killer? If I remember correctly the difference was only half a run, in terms of rallies. I don't know how we ever arrived at that stat.

BuckWoody
06-08-2007, 08:39 AM
Jerry Narron is like the pitcher who is taken out of the game after the bases are loaded on bloops and errors. It's not his fault he's in this mess, but he's not good enough to get out of it.


This might be the most appropriate description of Jerry Narron I've read in any medium.

I wanted to comment on this one when I first read it as well. Excellent analogy, in my book. Well done, BCubb.:thumbup:

GAC
06-08-2007, 08:59 AM
Freel is a terrible leadoff hitter, given his low OBP, and he shouldn't be playing thirdbase instead of EE.

The Freel "experiment" is over as far as I'm concerned. We like him because he's scrappy and plays hard. That is about as superficial as "veteran presence". He needs to be a super-sub. I say that because this bench, among other things, is down right atrocious. And I'm tired of this logic of "trying to find a way to play Freel". Who then loses out starting on the field?

They need to dump Castro and Moeller (and Conine could easily be on that fence to as far as I'm concerned)... and start complementing your bench with guys like Hopper and Votto in the second half.

But this team lacks a solid leadoff guy. You got Hatte, Dunn, or Jr, as far as leading the team with an OB% that is respectable. Other then that? We're sunk. Hopper? Should he be given a try? But where does he play?

WVRedsFan
06-08-2007, 09:15 AM
The Freel "experiment" is over as far as I'm concerned. We like him because he's scrappy and plays hard. That is about as superficial as "veteran presence". He needs to be a super-sub. I say that because this bench, among other things, is down right atrocious. And I'm tired of this logic of "trying to find a way to play Freel". Who then loses out starting on the field?

They need to dump Castro and Moeller (and Conine could easily be on that fence to as far as I'm concerned)... and start complementing your bench with guys like Hopper and Votto in the second half.

But this team lacks a solid leadoff guy. You got Hatte, Dunn, or Jr, as far as leading the team with an OB% that is respectable. Other then that? We're sunk. Hopper? Should he be given a try? But where does he play?
I agree and always have on Freel. He goes 4-4 one night and people appoint him to the HOF, but he strikes out too much and rarely ignites any offense. Play Hamilton in center and leave the outfield Dunn-Hamilton-Griffey.

Yes, dump Castro, Moeller, and Conine and bring up those kids. Bring up lots of kids and try (almost impossible) to get rid of Stanton and others for a bucket of balls (heck, give Stanton away) and see what happens. If you're going to stand pat, just leave the fans alone because most (not RZ, but most) could care less at this point.

37red
06-08-2007, 10:11 AM
It seems to me the point of the thread was to instill thought about having a knee jerk reaction from night to night. I'm an old geezer by most standards here, and as such I don't think it's productive to put a weight on anyone's shoulders from inning to inning. Over reacting is a waste of time and energy. Fans should look ahead as well as behind before jumping to conclusions, lighten up a little bit. In general players have good seasons and bad seasons, good nights and bad nights, lucky ones and unlucky ones. The Reds have had more bad luck than good luck this year. But over all they're a pretty good team. With a little better "luck" and "support" they could just as well be in first place, that is in the NL Central.

It's true that leaving the line up alone for a while would probably work out, especially if it was my line up.

Leaving a pitcher in longer or taking him out at the right time, my time, would be better.

Throwing players on the field simply for promotional profit serves no one.

Save your baseball cards, don't put them in the spokes of your bike. The throw a player away and get another one attitude is one that makes for big dollar trades and rarely produces anything. Have a beer and a braut, throw a little kraut on it and give them a chance.

RedsManRick
06-08-2007, 10:21 AM
I think Phillip's power is wasted there, and Hatteberg's on base skills is wasted in the 6th hole. Plus (I assume you forgot this) EE needs to be playing over Freel.

I'd go:

Hatteberg
Encarnacion
Griffey
Dunn
Phillips
Hamilton
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I think this is ideal because you have patient guys at the top, top producers in the middle, and guys who can knock in runs near the bottom. Plus, I think Phillips is close enough in ability with Hamilton, that you can even break up the lefties without sacrificing ability.

:thumbup:

GAC
06-08-2007, 10:24 AM
Bring up lots of kids and try

The only problem is our farms does not have alot of kids that are closeto being ML ready. I understand our circumstances, but brining up kids just because this team currently sucks is not going to help in the long run. I say give kids like Hopper and Votto (platoon him) a chance for the second half.

Redsland
06-08-2007, 10:56 AM
Jerry Narron is like the pitcher who is taken out of the game after the bases are loaded on bloops and errors. It's not his fault he's in this mess, but he's not good enough to get out of it.
Very, very well put.

:beerme:

KronoRed
06-08-2007, 01:42 PM
Should have traded Freel when people thought he was a starter ;)

Good stuff as always BCubb :D

Highlifeman21
06-08-2007, 05:42 PM
I would go with this maddeningly consistent line-up every single day without worrying about L-R matchups:

Freel
Phillips
Dunn
Griffey
Hamilton
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I would keep doing this until I started getting bashed for it on RedsZone. Then I would stop and only do it six times a week.

I think I would have to make it my mission to bash that lineup everytime I saw Phillips in the 2 hole!

The thought of that just puts me in a cold sweat.

Swap Hamilton and Phillips and then I would have no problem being the manager getting my lineup bashed by RedsZone on a daily basis!

RedEye
06-08-2007, 11:02 PM
I think Phillip's power is wasted there, and Hatteberg's on base skills is wasted in the 6th hole. Plus (I assume you forgot this) EE needs to be playing over Freel.

I'd go:

Hatteberg
Encarnacion
Griffey
Dunn
Phillips
Hamilton
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

I think this is ideal because you have patient guys at the top, top producers in the middle, and guys who can knock in runs near the bottom. Plus, I think Phillips is close enough in ability with Hamilton, that you can even break up the lefties without sacrificing ability.

Ohmygod... I can't BELIEVE I forgot about EdE! That's just embarrassing. Anyway, my point is that Narron should FORGET about the whole L-R matchup thing and go with a lineup that favors his best hitters getting more at-bats AND protection from those who follow them. I'm tired of his tinkering!

RedEye
06-08-2007, 11:04 PM
I think I would have to make it my mission to bash that lineup everytime I saw Phillips in the 2 hole!

The thought of that just puts me in a cold sweat.

Swap Hamilton and Phillips and then I would have no problem being the manager getting my lineup bashed by RedsZone on a daily basis!

Okay, okay... so Phillips shouldn't be in the two hole. Sorry guys. How about this one:

Freel
Hamilton
Griffey
Dunn
Phillips
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

Does that work better?

Patrick Bateman
06-08-2007, 11:37 PM
Ohmygod... I can't BELIEVE I forgot about EdE! That's just embarrassing. Anyway, my point is that Narron should FORGET about the whole L-R matchup thing and go with a lineup that favors his best hitters getting more at-bats AND protection from those who follow them. I'm tired of his tinkering!

I think putting Phillips ahead of Hamilton accomplished both things.

Hamilton and Phillips are both pretty decent hitters. Picking one over the other probably wont make a difference. You may was well set it up with a righty in the middle if you aren't really losing any offensive ability.

The lefty-right thing can be important for match-ups late in the inning, it's just that Narron goes overboard. If you don't sacrifice anything by switching some players around by doing the lefty-righty thing, then you should do it.

RedsBaron
06-09-2007, 08:21 AM
Okay, okay... so Phillips shouldn't be in the two hole. Sorry guys. How about this one:

Freel
Hamilton
Griffey
Dunn
Phillips
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

Does that work better?

You still have Freel starting over EE, and you still have Freel, with a terrible OBP, batting leadoff.

RedEye
06-09-2007, 11:50 AM
You still have Freel starting over EE, and you still have Freel, with a terrible OBP, batting leadoff.

Phillips
Hamilton
Griffey
Dunn
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

Okay. Freel is out of the lineup now and EdE is in there. I'm not sure what's going on in my head.

BTW, I might as well reveal my identity now: I am Jerry Narron, in case you hadn't already figured it out from my lineup foibles. :D

RedEye
06-09-2007, 11:51 AM
You still have Freel starting over EE, and you still have Freel, with a terrible OBP, batting leadoff.

BTW, Freel's OBP is terrible this year, but hasn't it hovered around .370 in the past? That would qualify him as a leadoff man, right?

mth123
06-09-2007, 01:23 PM
Phillips
Hamilton
Griffey
Dunn
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Gonzalez
Ross
Pitcher

Okay. Freel is out of the lineup now and EdE is in there. I'm not sure what's going on in my head.

BTW, I might as well reveal my identity now: I am Jerry Narron, in case you hadn't already figured it out from my lineup foibles. :D

Don't like Phillips leading off either. I'd try

Hatteberg 1b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Hamilton cf
Phillips 2b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Pitcher

With a lefty on the mound:

Freel CF
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Conine 1B
Gonzalez SS
Ross C

RedEye
06-09-2007, 02:02 PM
Don't like Phillips leading off either. I'd try

Hatteberg 1b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Hamilton cf
Phillips 2b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Pitcher

With a lefty on the mound:

Freel CF
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Conine 1B
Gonzalez SS
Ross C

Okay... but for the sake of argument, what would be the lineup you would trot out there every day if you could only pick one? (That was my original intent in posting to this thread: finding out what the consensus lineup would be if we just had one regular group every day.)

mth123
06-09-2007, 02:21 PM
Okay... but for the sake of argument, what would be the lineup you would trot out there every day if you could only pick one? (That was my original intent in posting to this thread: finding out what the consensus lineup would be if we just had one regular group every day.)

Tough question with Hatte on the team. If I could platoon, Hatte is more of an OBP guy who I'd bat in the top 2 while Conine, though not a slugger, does seem to move runners along a little and I like him better at 6th or so. Assuming you mean no platoon, I'd can them both and go with Votto:

Hamilton CF
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
Griffey RF
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Gonzalez SS
Ross C

Might start out with Votto lower and flip he and Phillips once he establishes himself a bit. Encarnacion should feast in between all those lefties.