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View Full Version : What is Burton really worth?



StrikeIndicator
06-08-2007, 06:17 PM
Right now if I were the Reds I would be overjoyed if someone offered me
50K for Burton.

He is a guy who maxed out at Double A with another team who is now taking up a MLB roster spot and innings for the Reds.

If these assets were allocated to Salmon, McBeth & Coffey they would be getting valuable experience that will be helpful to the organiztion. They would find out what these young guys can and cannot do in the big leagues, where they fit in, what they need to work on. The same info they could have gotten last Sept if they had called Salmon up then, when the season was for all intents and purposes over, instead, they rented a couple of useless arms, who are playing where now?

Going back and forth to the Ville is not the answer.
Look at Salmon the other night, in AAA. 3 batter, 10 pitches, 9 strikes, 3 outs.
He and the other young men need MLB work, not wasting their arms in AAA while the FO tries to figure out what to do.:bang::bang:

The sad truth is, the Reds will probably never get anything in return for their gamble on Burton.

While they are at it, they can release Majewski too. As a matter of fact, it would add credibility to their claim of "damaged goods."

reds44
06-08-2007, 06:21 PM
Salmon is a one trick poney, and I think I would rather have Burton then him.

McBeth and Coffey are other stories.

NorrisHopper30
06-08-2007, 06:23 PM
Why's everyone hate Burton, he's had 1 or 2 bad outings. I wish we could send him to AAA though, I believe his only problem is control. 7 walks in 11 innings.

captainmorgan07
06-08-2007, 06:34 PM
i agree norris right now the reds are on the rudderless black pearl and jerry narron has replaced captain jack sparrow give burton some work this year see how it goes next year either put him in AAA or the majors depending on how he looks. We did it with willy mo one year we can sure do it with burton

NorrisHopper30
06-08-2007, 06:37 PM
And I also think the poster before me is being hard on Salmon, he's still 27 we could get him some work this year and he might pan out to be a decent reliever for a year or 2, he's got a great fastball to start with he just needs to work on his other pitches.

reds44
06-08-2007, 06:39 PM
And I also think the poster before me is being hard on Salmon, he's still 27 we could get him some work this year and he might pan out to be a decent reliever for a year or 2, he's got a great fastball to start with he just needs to work on his other pitches.
I don't see a 27 year old developing more pitches. Salmon is past the prospect point, IMO.

hebroncougar
06-08-2007, 07:50 PM
I don't see a 27 year old developing more pitches. Salmon is past the prospect point, IMO.

While I agree to a point, I think another point to be made is Burton is 26 years old and has a real problem throwing strikes. It's not like this is some 21 or 22 year old phenom the Reds are holding a spot for.

StrikeIndicator
06-08-2007, 08:02 PM
Burton did not do that great in AA
Coffey, Salmon and McBeth all have time in the Reds system and have pitched better in AAA than Burton in AA

Arms only last so long,

Doro
06-08-2007, 08:09 PM
nevermind

boognish
06-09-2007, 12:36 PM
Burton did not do that great in AA
Coffey, Salmon and McBeth all have time in the Reds system and have pitched better in AAA than Burton in AA

Arms only last so long,

Why not let him get at least 30 IP under his belt before we throw him under the bus?

The opinions on the board in ST were ridiculous...that Burton should close games, but now we are at the diametrically opposed point of view, that he is a worthless piece of garbage. The hyperbole is absolutely off the charts.

This is a lost season, so why shouldn't the Reds see what Burton can do?

By the way, here are some numbers that show what some Rule V rookie pitchers have historically accomplished the year they were selected, and what the Reds can reasonably expect out of Burton can likely fall somewhere along these lines:

Santana, Johan MIN: 86 IP, 102 H, 62 ER, 11 HR, 54 BB, 64 K, 6.49 ERA, 1.81 WHIP
Turnbow, Derrick ANA: 38 IP, 36 H, 20 ER, 7 HR, 36 BB, 25 K, 4.74 ERA, 1.90 WHIP
Ayala, Luis MON: 71 IP, 65 H, 23 ER, 8 HR, 13 BB, 46 K, 2.92 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
Batista, Miguel PIT: appeared in 1 game
Carvajal, Marcos COL: 53 IP, 52 H, 30 ER, 8 HR, 21 BB, 37 K, 5.09 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
Grilli, Jason CHW: 45 IP, 52 H, 37 ER, 11 HR, 20 BB, 26 K, 7.40 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
Ledezma, Wil DET: 84 IP, 99 H, 54 ER, 12 HR, 35 BB, 49 K, 5.79 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
Mantei, Matt FLA: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 1 Hr, 13 BB, 15 K, 4.73 ERA, 1.88 WHIP

The trick to competing year-in, year-out for the Reds is going to be upgrading the 25-man, 40-man, and overall system by acquiring more talented players. Maybe Burton is part of the future puzzle, maybe not, but he is a calculated risk...let's see the rewards.

AmarilloRed
06-09-2007, 02:58 PM
I dont think we should throw any of the young relievers under the bus, including Majewski. I would get rid of our underachieving older relievers before any of the kids. It is a lost season, and we should try and let the young relievers get some experience.

Screwball
06-09-2007, 03:11 PM
Why not let him get at least 30 IP under his belt before we throw him under the bus?

The opinions on the board in ST were ridiculous...that Burton should close games, but now we are at the diametrically opposed point of view, that he is a worthless piece of garbage. The hyperbole is absolutely off the charts.

This is a lost season, so why shouldn't the Reds see what Burton can do?

By the way, here are some numbers that show what some Rule V rookie pitchers have historically accomplished the year they were selected, and what the Reds can reasonably expect out of Burton can likely fall somewhere along these lines:

Santana, Johan MIN: 86 IP, 102 H, 62 ER, 11 HR, 54 BB, 64 K, 6.49 ERA, 1.81 WHIP
Turnbow, Derrick ANA: 38 IP, 36 H, 20 ER, 7 HR, 36 BB, 25 K, 4.74 ERA, 1.90 WHIP
Ayala, Luis MON: 71 IP, 65 H, 23 ER, 8 HR, 13 BB, 46 K, 2.92 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
Batista, Miguel PIT: appeared in 1 game
Carvajal, Marcos COL: 53 IP, 52 H, 30 ER, 8 HR, 21 BB, 37 K, 5.09 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
Grilli, Jason CHW: 45 IP, 52 H, 37 ER, 11 HR, 20 BB, 26 K, 7.40 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
Ledezma, Wil DET: 84 IP, 99 H, 54 ER, 12 HR, 35 BB, 49 K, 5.79 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
Mantei, Matt FLA: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 1 Hr, 13 BB, 15 K, 4.73 ERA, 1.88 WHIP

The trick to competing year-in, year-out for the Reds is going to be upgrading the 25-man, 40-man, and overall system by acquiring more talented players. Maybe Burton is part of the future puzzle, maybe not, but he is a calculated risk...let's see the rewards.


Great, great post, boog. I agree completely.

StrikeIndicator
06-12-2007, 12:15 PM
Why not let him get at least 30 IP under his belt before we throw him under the bus?

The opinions on the board in ST were ridiculous...that Burton should close games, but now we are at the diametrically opposed point of view, that he is a worthless piece of garbage. The hyperbole is absolutely off the charts.

This is a lost season, so why shouldn't the Reds see what Burton can do?

By the way, here are some numbers that show what some Rule V rookie pitchers have historically accomplished the year they were selected, and what the Reds can reasonably expect out of Burton can likely fall somewhere along these lines:

Santana, Johan MIN: 86 IP, 102 H, 62 ER, 11 HR, 54 BB, 64 K, 6.49 ERA, 1.81 WHIP
Turnbow, Derrick ANA: 38 IP, 36 H, 20 ER, 7 HR, 36 BB, 25 K, 4.74 ERA, 1.90 WHIP
Ayala, Luis MON: 71 IP, 65 H, 23 ER, 8 HR, 13 BB, 46 K, 2.92 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
Batista, Miguel PIT: appeared in 1 game
Carvajal, Marcos COL: 53 IP, 52 H, 30 ER, 8 HR, 21 BB, 37 K, 5.09 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
Grilli, Jason CHW: 45 IP, 52 H, 37 ER, 11 HR, 20 BB, 26 K, 7.40 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
Ledezma, Wil DET: 84 IP, 99 H, 54 ER, 12 HR, 35 BB, 49 K, 5.79 ERA, 1.60 WHIP
Mantei, Matt FLA: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 1 Hr, 13 BB, 15 K, 4.73 ERA, 1.88 WHIP

The trick to competing year-in, year-out for the Reds is going to be upgrading the 25-man, 40-man, and overall system by acquiring more talented players. Maybe Burton is part of the future puzzle, maybe not, but he is a calculated risk...let's see the rewards.


Have not had time to research all, but this is a start:

Santana, A cinderella story, undrafted player gets picked by 'Stro's
goes to Min at age 20
Ayala, now pitching in the Carolina League
Batista how did his one game go?
Carvajal, on the Mets 40 man, but has spend whole yr in AA
Turnbow, one good ryr for the Brewers, now out of baseball
Grilli, pitched 45 inning for CWS with an ERA of 7.40 traded to Detriot
not playing anywhere in 2007
Ledezma, 2002 Tigers, 3-7 with no saves
Manteu had a couple of red hot years out of the box, which is why he
earned $7 Million in 03 and 04 Released by Tiger '06

So, out of all of these only one, Santana, is still with the team the R5'd him
Of the others, two are in LOW minors and do not appear to be moving on up as the Jefferson's would say

You can quote me here. Jared Burton at 26 is no Johan Santana at 20
Nice guy, nice try, but he is keeping someone else down on the farm who deserves to be up and gaining valuable MLB experience


ps
just heard that he is on the DL,

JLB5
06-12-2007, 12:19 PM
Turnbow, one good ryr for the Brewers, now out of baseball


Turnbow is the setup man and is having a decent year with the Brewers. Not an All-Star closer, but not out of baseball.

BTW, does anyone think that the Reds would have even won one more game without Burton on the roster this year? He's hardly the problem.

BuckU
06-12-2007, 12:25 PM
Have not had time to research all, but this is a start:

Santana, A cinderella story, undrafted player gets picked by 'Stro's
goes to Min at age 20
Ayala, now pitching in the Carolina League
Batista how did his one game go?
Carvajal, on the Mets 40 man, but has spend whole yr in AA
Turnbow, one good ryr for the Brewers, now out of baseball
Grilli, pitched 45 inning for CWS with an ERA of 7.40 traded to Detriot
not playing anywhere in 2007
Ledezma, 2002 Tigers, 3-7 with no saves
Manteu had a couple of red hot years out of the box, which is why he
earned $7 Million in 03 and 04 Released by Tiger '06

So, out of all of these only one, Santana, is still with the team the R5'd him
Of the others, two are in LOW minors and do not appear to be moving on up as the Jefferson's would say

You can quote me here. Jared Burton at 26 is no Johan Santana at 20
Nice guy, nice try, but he is keeping someone else down on the farm who deserves to be up and gaining valuable MLB experience


ps
just heard that he is on the DL,


Check your records for Grilli...He's been with Detroit all season and last year was an important part of their run.

mound_patrol
06-12-2007, 01:01 PM
I don't see a 27 year old developing more pitches. Salmon is past the prospect point, IMO.

Just because you are 27 it doesnt mean you can't find a new pitch. Finding a better fastball is about impossible at that age, but you can play around with your grips and start working on a new pitch.

As for giving up on either Burton and Salmon i think its way to early. Both have electric arms and need more time to see if they can get big leaguers out. Not like throwing them out there right now is hurting our chances. I also hope the Reds keep finding injuries for Burton so he can keep rehabing down in the minors.

JLB5
06-12-2007, 01:30 PM
This move should buy them to a little after the All-Star break. He's got about 30 days on the active roster and has to have 90 to stay with the team for next year. By the time he does the max rehab stint, they will know if they have any glimmer of hope for this year and if they can stash him for the rest of the season. They will also have a good idea by then of who is going to be traded if that hasn't happend already.

I agree with mound patrol that I'm not giving up on somebody because he's 27. 27 is the new 24. Players are being developed differently these days and there have been a number of pitchers who don't "get it" until about age 30. Relievers typically only use 2 pitches, so learning a second pitch is not beyond anybody at that age. You can't teach a 97 mph fastball that moves, but you can teach a changeup.