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corkedbat
06-10-2007, 09:44 PM
I was bored and looking over some old box scores for the 65 Reds (the year I first went to a game) at the Baseball Almanac. I started taking a look at the numbers for the regulars and realized they had some pretty potent lineups pre-BRM. Of course, playing in Crosley didn't hurt much either.

(AVG/HR/RBI)

LF Tommy Harper____(.257/18/64)
2B Pete Rose_______(.312/11/81)
CF Vada Pinson_____(.305/22/94)
RF Frank Robinson___(.296/33/113)
3B Deron Johnson___(.287/32/132)
1B Tony Perez______(.260/12/47)
_C Johnny Edwards__(.267/17/51)
SS Leo Cardenas____(.287/11/57)

RedFanAlways1966
06-10-2007, 09:53 PM
And a couple of others who had decent years at the plate in 1965... Gordy Coleman (.302/14/57) who also played first that year along with Tony. Also backup catcher Don Pavletich (.319/8/32).

LINEDRIVER
06-10-2007, 10:00 PM
I was bored and looking over some old box scores for the 65 Reds (the year I first went to a game) at the Baseball Almanac. I started taking a look at the numbers for the regulars and realized they had some pretty potent linesups pre-BRM. Of course, playing in Crosley didn't hurt much either.

(AVG/HR/RBI)

LF Tommy Harper____(.257/18/64)
2B Pete Rose_______(.312/11/81)
CF Vada Pinson_____(.305/22/94)
RF Frank Robinson___(.296/33/113)
3B Deron Johnson___(.287/32/132)
1B Tony Perez______(.260/12/47)
_C Johnny Edwards__(.267/17/51)
SS Leo Cardenas____(.287/11/57)

Pitching was a problem that year. Gee, where have we heard that before?

Starters Sammy Ellis won 22 games, Jim Maloney won 20 games. After that, things went downhill fast. Lefty Jim O'toole, who won 17 games in '64, won just 3 games in '65. Those 3 wins game against the lousy NY Mets. Joey Jay won just 9 games and posted a 4.21 ERA when a 4.21 was considered an embarrassment. Thirty-six-year-old Joe Nuxhall started 16 of his 32 games and won 11 with a 3.44 ERA.

Most of the regular players played day in and day out. Harper, Pinson, Robinson, Johnson, and Cardenas played in about 155-160 games each. Pete Rose played in all 162 games. Catcher Johnnny Edwards platooned with Don Pavletich, a young Tony Perez platooned with Gordy Coleman.

My brother and I attended this Reds/Dodgers game on August 6, 1965 at Crosley Field.

I wrote this game story just a few years ago after referencing my old scorecard and reading about that game in old newspaper files.


COKER SAVES MATES WITH GAME-WINNING PINCH-HIT;
REDS WIN 5-4 TO PULL WITHIN 2 GAMES OF DODGERS

By LINEDRIVER

Reds’ pinch-hitter Jimmie Coker helped to straighten out his slumping team on Friday night with an eleventh-inning pinch-hit single to give the Reds a 5-4 victory over the first place Los Angeles Dodgers.

The victory broke a string of four consecutive losses for third-place Cincinnati. The Reds now sit a half-game behind the second place San Francisco Giants, and one and a half games behind the front-running Dodgers.

Solo homers by Don Pavletich, Pete Rose, Deron Johnson, and Tommy Harper accounted for Cincinnati’s first four runs as the Reds out-hit the Dodgers, 10-5, in the third extra-inning ballgame in the last four nights. Rose’s homer was his third round-tripper in the last six games.

Reds’ catcher Don Pavletich got the winning half-inning underway when he singled off Ron Perranoski, the Dodgers’ very tough lefty reliever. Marty Keough was called off the bench to run for the burly Pavletich. Charley James then bunted Keough over to second base. Dodgers’ skipper Walt Alston elected to issue an intentional walk to Reds’ shortstop Leo “Chico” Cardenas. With runners at first and second base, and just one out, Reds’ manager Dick Sisler sent Jimmie Coker to the plate as a pinch-hitter for reliever Billy McCool. Coker, a 29-year-old Texas native and third-string catcher, stroked a solid liner to left field that scored Keough from second base for the winning run.

Ron Perranoski stormed off the mound with just a loss to show for an otherwise brilliant 4 1/3 innings of relief. Dodgers’ starter Johnny Podres left the game after five innings of 4-run ball before giving way to Howie Reed, who provided just one inning of middle relief.

Joey Jay started for Cincinnati, but was lifted after one out in the fifth inning. John Tsitouris replaced the veteran Jay, who showed nothing but slow and slower pitches from an aching right arm. Tsitouris allowed two runs in his 4 2/3 innings of work, a major improvement since receiving a thrashing by the Giants in their 18-7 win over the Reds on Thursday night. Lefty Bill McCool threw the final two innings and picked up his seventh win against six losses on the year.

redsmetz
06-10-2007, 10:08 PM
We led the league in batting (.273), walks and hits, doubles and triples - second in homers. We had two 20 game winners (Sammy Ellis and Jim Maloney).

And we finished 4th, 8 games back with an 89-73 record behind LA, SF and Pgh.
Milwaukee finished behind us, also with a winning record.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2007, 12:11 AM
That summer I was at one of the games in that series, but memory fails as to which one. That winter I had just met Joey Jay at a Shoney's restaurant in Charleston, WV. Jay had moved to Spencer, WV (about 40 miles from our home) and was Christmas shopping.

Roy Tucker
06-11-2007, 09:24 AM
'65 was also the year when Maloney pitched 2 no-hitters. The first one was where he lost it in the 11th inning when Johnny Lewis led off the 11th with a homer. Maloney had pitched 10 innings of no-hit ball with 18Ks. A monster game.

My favorite Red that year was Leo Cardenas. I think it was because I liked his baseball card picture.

I was lucky to attend a game in July of that year with my dad, Reds vs. Dodgers (July 7, looked it up on Retrosheet). Sandy Koufax vs. Sammy Ellis. I thought we'd see a pitchers duel. But Koufax got lit up early and was yanked after giving up 9 hits and 5 runs in 4 2/3 innings.

Reds had a 5-0 lead and I thought they'd cruise. But Ellis lost it later on and Billy McCool and Joe Nuxhall couldn't do it from the bullpen (some things never change), the Dodgers chipped away at the lead, and we went into the 9th tied at 6-6.

First 2 Reds went out and Leo Cardenas came up with 2 outs. I remember sitting there thinking "please-please-please-please-please hit a HR". And then Cardenas *does* hit a blast to LF for a game-inning HR. I can still remember the ball hitting the LF screen and seeing the shock waves ripple through the screen and the crowd (and me) go berserk. First time I had experienced a GW homer in person and, to a 12 yr. old boy, it was orgasmic. I was on cloud 9.

1964 and 1965 was when I got hooked on baseball and I don't think the hooks have let loose yet.

RedsBaron
06-12-2007, 06:38 AM
1964 and 1965 were an odd combination of seasons. In 1964 the Reds lost the pennant on the final day of the season, carried primarily by the best pitching staff in the NL. Although the Dodgers had a slightly better team ERA, 3.47 to 3.49, the Reds actually allowed fewer runs, 566 to 572, and did so with Crosley Field as their home park, a more hitter friendly venue than Dodger Stadium. The Reds fell short because of a mediocre offense, scoring 660 runs, fifth in the NL.
In 1965 the Reds had a terrific offense. While other Reds teams have scored more runs than the 825 posted by the '65 Reds, that was a wonderful total in the mini-dead era of the mid-1960s, when runs were hard to come by. I once had a book which ranked the 1965 Reds as having one of the ten best offenses of all time. Their 825 runs were 117 more than the total scored by the NL's second best offense, the Milwaukee Braves.
Unfortunately, the 1965 Reds finsihed 7th in the 10 team NL in runs allowed, surrendering 704 (LA only allowed 521). As a result, the Reds finished fourth. After the 1965 season, Reds owner Bill DeWitt decided to trade away part of the Reds apparent overabundance of hitting to get more pitching, dealing away Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas and a couple of others.
If the Reds had been able to combine their 1964 pitching staff with their 1965 offense, they would have run away with the NL title.

Heath
06-12-2007, 08:48 AM
All the Reds had to do in '64 was to beat a team that was completely crushed from the weight of a collapse of a 10 game lead in September.

John Tsitouris, we know his story, winner of the short straw contest.

All this under a cloud that could have saw the Reds move to San Diego.

westofyou
06-12-2007, 10:20 AM
Unfortunately, the 1965 Reds finsihed 7th in the 10 team NL in runs allowed

Horrible defense, Deron Johnson was a converted 1st sacker playing 3rd, Rose was done as a 2nd baseman (as Heffner tried to point out in 66) Cardenes was a SS with a weak throwing arm and average range. Perez was a young inexperienced 1st sacker and Coleman the other half of the tandem.

Add in a team that walked more batters then other teams and you have some trouble in preventing runs.

WVRedsFan
06-12-2007, 10:55 AM
1964 and 1965 were an odd combination of seasons. In 1964 the Reds lost the pennant on the final day of the season, carried primarily by the best pitching staff in the NL. Although the Dodgers had a slightly better team ERA, 3.47 to 3.49, the Reds actually allowed fewer runs, 566 to 572, and did so with Crosley Field as their home park, a more hitter friendly venue than Dodger Stadium. The Reds fell short because of a mediocre offense, scoring 660 runs, fifth in the NL.
In 1965 the Reds had a terrific offense. While other Reds teams have scored more runs than the 825 posted by the '65 Reds, that was a wonderful total in the mini-dead era of the mid-1960s, when runs were hard to come by. I once had a book which ranked the 1965 Reds as having one of the ten best offenses of all time. Their 825 runs were 117 more than the total scored by the NL's second best offense, the Milwaukee Braves.
Unfortunately, the 1965 Reds finsihed 7th in the 10 team NL in runs allowed, surrendering 704 (LA only allowed 521). As a result, the Reds finished fourth. After the 1965 season, Reds owner Bill DeWitt decided to trade away part of the Reds apparent overabundance of hitting to get more pitching, dealing away Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas and a couple of others.
If the Reds had been able to combine their 1964 pitching staff with their 1965 offense, they would have run away with the NL title.
It's amazing, but that one trade has always stuck in my craw and makes me gun shy about trading talented offensive personnel for pitching. As we've seen since last year, you have to have both in good quantities to be a contender, but trading healthy offense for sore-armed pitchers is always a possibility that scares me to death.

SunDeck
06-12-2007, 11:10 AM
My favorite Red that year was Leo Cardenas. I think it was because I liked his baseball card picture.

I hung on to this Steve Rogers card because it was the worst picture I had. I remember thinking the guy must be a terrible pitcher (which he wasn't) and an awful person (who knows?)...just because of this photo:


http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/steve_rogers_autograph.jpg