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RichRed
06-11-2007, 04:28 PM
A little blurb from the Chicago Tribune:


If you don't think success in the draft is important for an organization, consider this comparison. In the last 10 years, Cincinnati got only six of 60 players it picked in the first five rounds of the draft to the big leagues, the lowest total in the majors. Detroit, meanwhile, advanced the most players, 23 of 58 players.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070610rogers,1,4890228.column?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

Not that it would surprise me but is there a list somewhere that would verify the accuracy of this statement?

Also, is it your opinion that the Reds are moving in a positive direction to reverse this trend?

westofyou
06-11-2007, 04:32 PM
Last weeks pick was the 41st first round pick that the Reds have had since 1965, 2 of these players did not sign with the Reds (Mike Miley 1971 and Jeremy Sowers 2001) of these 39 players 19 have made it to the big leagues, that’s almost 49%. Since the draft the Reds have used their first pick for pitchers 21 times, 20 of them were starting pitchers, with Ryan Wagner being the lone reliever in the group. 5 of these pitchers were left-handed, three of them were drafted by Jim Bowden (whose Nationals drafted heavy in the LH pitcher field this past draft) Scott Jones (1982) is the only LH Pitcher to be drafted with the first pick by the Reds between 1969’s pick (Don Gullett) and 1999’s pick (Ty Howington). 9 of the 19 players who made it to the big leagues were pitchers, with Bailey now making it 10 of 20. Of the Reds pitchers who made it, only Don Gullett and Gary Nolan can claim to have had much of a career, and both were out of the game very early.

The 21 Position players who were drafted generally played 43 positions, with 8 being outfielders, 8 more being shortstops and 3 being catchers. The oddball in the group was a third basemen Tad Vanger, 1977. Of the 10 players who made it to the big leagues as position players for the Reds 5 were drafted as Shortstops, 1 as a catcher and the other 4 as outfielders. The most significant career amongst them is easily Barry Larkin (1985)

10 of the Reds 1st roiund picks have been college players.

Eric_Davis
06-11-2007, 04:36 PM
This is the area that I was and am most concerned with in both Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky. I don't care much about the Major League club in comparison to turning the entire organization into a continuous influx of quality players to the Major League club.

Looking at the current state of the Organizational Depth Chart, I think we're getting there. It's not about drafting the players, but developing them that counts. Clearly the problem was in the development of the players not the drafting of them.

The REDS' problems were in the coaches and management decisions on how to develop players.

Compare who was in responsibility areas surrounding player development before Dan O'Brien and who came after him and who's in there now.

Eric_Davis
06-11-2007, 04:40 PM
That 49% that you pointed out there is league average for first round picks making to the bigs, isn't it?

BRM
06-11-2007, 04:44 PM
Looking at picks taken in the first five rounds since 1997, I count 10 players that have at least made an appearance in MLB.

Homer Bailey - 04 draft
Ryan Wagner - 03 draft
Dustin Moseley - 00 draft
Dane Sardinha - 00 draft
Ben Broussard - 99 draft
Austin Kearns - 98 draft
Adam Dunn - 98 draft
Brandon Larson -97 draft
DeWayne Wise - 97 draft
Gookie Dawkins - 97 draft

I guess if the article was written prior to Bailey's debut and only went back to 1998, six would be the correct number.

IslandRed
06-11-2007, 06:21 PM
It may also be counting only those players who made it to the show with the team that originally drafted them, which wouldn't count players who were traded while prospects and made the majors later.

redsinraleigh
06-11-2007, 09:00 PM
This week's Sports Weekly has a table showing Reds last at getting players picked in the 1st 5 rounds to the majors with the team that drafted them at 6 for 60 (10%) with the Indians 29th at 10 for 72 (13.9%). Don't have a link to the article, but it's on page 9... ;)

1st place were the Tigers at 23 for 58 (39.7%)

mbgrayson
06-12-2007, 02:49 PM
The full article is HERE: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/draft/2007-06-06-talent-development_N.htm

This truly explains why the Reds are where they are today: Good ridance to former GMs Bowden and O'Brien. It is a good thing that we have shaken up our scouting and development in the organization. Can't do much worse.....

"30. Cincinnati Reds (10%): The last position player of note was Ben Broussard, a second-rounder in 1999. In the first two rounds the year before, the Reds took Austin Kearns and Adam Dunn, their only All-Star among their picks. No team has gotten less from the pitchers it has taken."

redsmetz
06-12-2007, 04:04 PM
It may also be counting only those players who made it to the show with the team that originally drafted them, which wouldn't count players who were traded while prospects and made the majors later.

That's precisely what it was. The data was from last week's Sports Weekly and unfortunately I can't find the printed articles on the web, ever seens USA Today merged that publication's website into their's. We were dead last.

Someone mentioned it might not have been the draft, but the development. That's where I'm hoping we're seeing a change. I think this is part of the "step by step" approach, allowing players to succeed at a lower level, then moving up to the [U]next[U] step. I say that, but I see this week that they've jumped a couple of players up a step or two for some spot work, then back to their current level (I think a guy went from Dayton to Louisville for one start).

Of course, drafting players to get into your system, working the Rule V draft at the minor league level and grabbing plum minor league free agents will all help re-energize the system.

There is no reason we can't reprime the system to start seeing the previous richness of the Reds farm system.

dougdirt
06-12-2007, 07:26 PM
The full article is HERE: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/draft/2007-06-06-talent-development_N.htm

This truly explains why the Reds are where they are today: Good ridance to former GMs Bowden and O'Brien. It is a good thing that we have shaken up our scouting and development in the organization. Can't do much worse.....

"30. Cincinnati Reds (10%): The last position player of note was Ben Broussard, a second-rounder in 1999. In the first two rounds the year before, the Reds took Austin Kearns and Adam Dunn, their only All-Star among their picks. No team has gotten less from the pitchers it has taken."

Dano did wonders for our minor league system. He is the reason it is in the shape it is in now. He brought us Bruce and Bailey. He brought in Carlos Fisher and Sam Lecure.

Eric_Davis
06-13-2007, 02:44 AM
I bought the paper and read the article today. As bad as the REDS were being last, it seemed to me that all the clubs were terrible.

The average was about 20% of players in rounds 1-5 made it to their big-league club. That really sucks than only one player on average every year from the first five rounds will make it to your own big league club, and that doesn't even speak to how good he'll be.

But, for the REDS, it's only half that at 10% and that's atrocious, but you can certainly blame some of that on desire to skip players that might cost them money.

I'm glad that the new system should reduce the size of signing bonuses because it reduces some of that risk that the small-market clubs will make.

This study also points out that we'd be better off getting a Top-prospect from AA or AAA for Adam Dunn rather than taking a risk on the 2 compensatory picks.