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Tom Servo
06-11-2007, 09:46 PM
per Trent:


Reds just released this news: Eric Milton is scheduled to have Tommy John surgery Friday and is done for the season. At the end of the year, his contract will expire, so we might have seen the last of him in a Reds uniform.

In other news, Bill Bray has been recalled from his rehab assignment because of left shoulder inflammation.

Eric_Davis
06-11-2007, 09:50 PM
That sucks about Bray!

I hope it's not serious and resolves itself quickly.

Good Luck, Eric.

Sea Ray
06-11-2007, 09:50 PM
OK, well that's that. Let's just hope that we don't see an Eddie Guardado or Paul Wilson contract offered to him. I don't want to see another dime spent on him

redsfan30
06-11-2007, 09:50 PM
I really hope people show some class in this thread....

Sea Ray
06-11-2007, 09:53 PM
That sucks about Bray!

I hope it's not serious and resolves itself quickly.

Good Luck, Eric.

That does but with Guardado coming back it'd be a squeeze to get Bray on this roster. Let's just get him healthy for next year

M2
06-11-2007, 09:54 PM
I don't wish surgery on anyone, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't relieved to hear the official news that his Reds career was over. Even if it wasn't TJ surgery, Milton couldn't come back and take the mound for the Reds again this season. It would have been a slap in the face to every fan who bought a ticket to see that game. One way or another, his season had to come to an end.

Bad news about Bray. I'm getting the distinct impression something's seriously wrong with his wing and they just haven't identified it yet. Hope I'm wrong.

BoydsOfSummer
06-11-2007, 09:59 PM
I don't wish surgery on anyone, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't relieved to hear the official news that his Reds career was over. Even if it wasn't TJ surgery, Milton couldn't come back and take the mound for the Reds again this season. It would have been a slap in the face to every fan who bought a ticket to see that game. One way or another, his season had to come to an end.

Bad news about Bray. I'm getting the distinct impression something's seriously wrong with his wing and they just haven't identified yet. Hope I'm wrong.


Yep. Something is up other than a goofed up finger.

remdog
06-11-2007, 10:05 PM
I'm not particularly sorry to hear that Milton will not be pitching any more for the Reds this year but I am sorry to hear that he will undergo TJ surgery. I would never be happy about that for anyone. For all the difficulties he went through Milton was pretty cool about it. He never went 'Danny Graves' on the fans and he always took the ball when asked.

Whether or not the Reds will offer him a Paul Wilson type of contract is, to me, doubtful but stranger things have happened.

Like redsfan30, I too hope that Reds fans show their great class in this thread.

Rem

KronoRed
06-11-2007, 10:10 PM
Hope he recovers fully and quickly.

RedsMan3203
06-11-2007, 10:14 PM
Here is to a fast and speedy recovery :beerme:

I hope to see you on the field somewhere next year.... :)

wheels
06-11-2007, 10:14 PM
Okay....So now that we're hearing things about Bray's shoulder, that leaves only Gary Majewski standing (just barely) from the Trade.

Yipes.

Sea Ray
06-11-2007, 10:17 PM
Okay....So now that we're hearing things about Bray's shoulder, that leaves only Gary Majewski standing (just barely) from the Trade.

Yipes.

Not exactly. We've got Thompson pitching pretty well in A Ball. Truth be told it was a rotten trade on both sides. Just look at the standings...

Heath
06-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Even though he wasn't the best pitcher money could buy, you have to give Milton credit for taking the ball every fifth day.

Well wishes and speedy recoveries, Eric.

Joseph
06-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Maybe Milton was hurt the whole time?

Kidding. I really hope he rests his arm and leg and wins 20 games next year, or at least the year after.

TOBTTReds
06-11-2007, 10:21 PM
Not exactly. We've got Thompson pitching pretty well in A Ball. Truth be told it was a rotten trade on both sides. Just look at the standings...

And the outstanding years Kearns and Felipe are having. Brays shoulder has been an issue for the last month or so, so this isn't anything new.

Joseph
06-11-2007, 10:27 PM
Bigger question....

Milton to the 60 day DL, does that then return us to having 2 open spots?

OldRightHander
06-11-2007, 10:27 PM
I think I have to echo the sentiments others have expressed. I am glad his Reds career is over but it's a shame it had to end like this. I didn't like the way he pitched while he was here, but I never had a problem with how he conducted himself and he never tried to make excuses for his performance. He might not have been a good pitcher here and his contract might have been a horrible waste of money, but at least he handled imself with some class. The least we can do is show the same. With that said, I hope he makes a full recovery and ends up pitching somewhere else in the NL Central next year. ;)

Gallen5862
06-11-2007, 10:28 PM
Hopefully Milton can recover from his surgury. I hope the Reds put him on the 60 Day dl to open up a roster spot. I hope that Bray recovers soon as well.

UKFlounder
06-11-2007, 10:33 PM
Hate to hear anybody having surgery. Hopefully he gets another opportunity to resume his career, if he so chooses.

And perhaps sitting Bray out & getting him ready for next year might be a good idea, as suggested previously.

RBA
06-11-2007, 10:34 PM
Insurance? doubt it, but one can hope.

flyer85
06-11-2007, 10:49 PM
That sucks about Bray!

I hope it's not serious and resolves itself quickly.

Good Luck, Eric.can you say ... surgery.

Like I said in April, more was going on than a broken finger.

missionhockey21
06-11-2007, 10:55 PM
Insurance? doubt it, but one can hope.
I wondered that too, since he's been on the DL for so long, I am pretty he qualifies. I don't want to throw around a date that I have floating in my head regarding the cut-off as who knows how right that is, but I am pretty sure given the time he was placed on the DL, we should have a chance to qualify.

M2
06-11-2007, 11:03 PM
Insurance? doubt it, but one can hope.

Since it's his elbow and not his knee there's a chance it might be insured.

Caveat Emperor
06-11-2007, 11:26 PM
Since it's his elbow and not his knee there's a chance it might be insured.

Though with the Reds being in salary dump mode (presumably), having an extra couple milion bucks really isn't going to do much good unless they just throw it in the bank for the offseason instead of adding it to the club's bottom line.

Always Red
06-11-2007, 11:38 PM
I think I have to echo the sentiments others have expressed. I am glad his Reds career is over but it's a shame it had to end like this. I didn't like the way he pitched while he was here, but I never had a problem with how he conducted himself and he never tried to make excuses for his performance. He might not have been a good pitcher here and his contract might have been a horrible waste of money, but at least he handled himself with some class. The least we can do is show the same.

Good post.

I feel bad for Eric Milton; he wasn't the pitcher here that he had been before. It wasn't through laziness, poor attitude or general ineptness. He was simply hurt, the entire time he was here.

I can't help but think that pitchers and LTC are bad combinations. I was happy the Reds locked up Harang and Arroyo this winter; I'm having flashbacks, especially as concerns Arroyo, right now...

RBA
06-11-2007, 11:44 PM
Since it's his elbow and not his knee there's a chance it might be insured.

The insurance company will probably attempt to argue that his bum knee made him compensate in his arm causing damage to his elbow.

M2
06-11-2007, 11:55 PM
The insurance company will probably attempt to argue that his bum knee made him compensate in his arm causing damage to his elbow.

It would have needed to be in there prior to the injury. Either the Reds got partial insurance for some of Milton's body parts or he's not covered. It's probable that his knee made him completely uninsurable (a good reason not to sign him if you ask me), but perhaps the team got some elbow, shoulder, freak injury coverage.

penantboundreds
06-12-2007, 12:17 AM
From what I understand there is about a 90% chance of a full recovery after TJ Surgery. It seems to be that an eight month or ten month recovery is necessary to get completely back to 100%. Milton seems to me to know that he owes the Reds. Would you sign him to a Minor-League contract with an invite to ST next spring? Let him work with the team get him extended ST and see if he can't make this comeback? Questions that I would like to ask because I think there is a legitament argument to them, especially if he can rehab that knee, maybe we can squeeze one last career year out of him. Thoughts?

coachw513
06-12-2007, 12:22 AM
It's been disappointing at times the inference by some that all Milton did was want to collect a check..by all accounts he worked hard, cared deeply, accepted responsibility for poor performance...another flawed athlete scarred by the public's inability to blame the right folks (irresponsible management) for poor contracts...folks always crucify the athlete, as if you or I would turn down the big pay-day...

I hope his surgery is a success and he is able to make it back someday...

StillFunkyB
06-12-2007, 12:28 AM
I feel bad for Eric, I really do.

I am extremely relieved to hear that he won't be pitching for the Reds any longer.

I wish him a speedy recovery, and good luck to him.

sonny
06-12-2007, 01:13 AM
I can't think of a more fitting end to this story.

Heres to a speedy recovery ans a long contract with the St Louis Cardinals

Wheelhouse
06-12-2007, 03:17 AM
Wow. So our rotation is Harang, Arroyo, Lohse, Belisle, Bailey. And Guardado coming back to close with Weathers in the 8th and McBeth in the 7th...We can compete with anyone--get this: if the Reds are 5 out at the All-Star break (which is conceivable) we've got a shot IMHO.

Eric_Davis
06-12-2007, 05:00 AM
In the same article Krivsky said Bray could be throwing off a mound within the week.

Always Red
06-12-2007, 08:03 AM
And Guardado coming back to close

I have no faith that Guardado will be able to close in any way, shape or form.

But I hope he can, and that's what makes me a fan, I guess.

Strikes Out Looking
06-12-2007, 08:55 AM
Ok, so on June 11, it is announced that Milton needs Tommy John surgery. He was hurting when the season started, but the Reds insisted on putting him in the rotation, where he was, in my opinion, awful. After his last putrid outing, he was put on the dl.

Why didn't the Reds medical staff catch this before the season started--allowing for someone else to be the fifth pitcher all season and possibly giving the Reds a couple more wins at this point in time? Heck, they could be in 5th place by now.

15fan
06-12-2007, 09:38 AM
The final numbers on Milton's stint in Cincy:

66 starts, 370.1 IP, 439 H, 240 Earned Runs, 73 HRs, 16-27 record, and an ERA of...5.83.

GAC
06-12-2007, 09:41 AM
Ok, so on June 11, it is announced that Milton needs Tommy John surgery. He was hurting when the season started, but the Reds insisted on putting him in the rotation, where he was, in my opinion, awful. After his last putrid outing, he was put on the dl.

Why didn't the Reds medical staff catch this before the season started--allowing for someone else to be the fifth pitcher all season and possibly giving the Reds a couple more wins at this point in time? Heck, they could be in 5th place by now.

When Milton initially went on the DL a few weeks ago it was becuse he hadn't told anyone about his elbow. And I'm not sure, but I think that there was an article on it, and some weren't very happy when Milton told them and wasn't forthright to begin with.

It's hard for a medical staff to catch something when someone doesn't say anything and/or tries to conceal it.

He has sucked for two years... how were they to know it was something out of the ordinary? We are talking Eric Milton here. :mooner:

cumberlandreds
06-12-2007, 09:42 AM
Just saw this this morning. Best of luck to Milton. I do hope he can recover and comeback to pitch in MLB. But just not with the Reds. It was a bad fit from the start. A fly ball pitcher in GABP just don't mix and the previous GM and owner just refused to realize that.

MrCinatit
06-12-2007, 10:00 AM
Even though Milton sucked when he was here, it was not as if he wanted to suck.
Best of luck to him - hey, look what the surgery did for Tommy John. Who knows.

registerthis
06-12-2007, 10:36 AM
He has sucked for two years... how were they to know it was something out of the ordinary? We are talking Eric Milton here. :mooner:

Yeah, I think most of us just chalked it up to "general suckitude".

M2
06-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Wow. So our rotation is Harang, Arroyo, Lohse, Belisle, Bailey. And Guardado coming back to close with Weathers in the 8th and McBeth in the 7th...We can compete with anyone--get this: if the Reds are 5 out at the All-Star break (which is conceivable) we've got a shot IMHO.

I figure when it gets back from Philly at the end of the month, the club will be lucky to be 30-49.

BRM
06-12-2007, 10:52 AM
I figure when it gets back from Philly at the end of the month, the club will be lucky to be 30-49.

I just looked at the schedule and I agree with you. I can easily see the Reds going 5-10 over the next 15 games.

Benihana
06-12-2007, 10:57 AM
Though with the Reds being in salary dump mode (presumably), having an extra couple milion bucks really isn't going to do much good unless they just throw it in the bank for the offseason instead of adding it to the club's bottom line.

No- this could be really good. If it allows the Reds to foot some of Jr. or Dunn's salary in a trade, it would allow for a better return of talent (hopefully).

Dunn for Billingsley and Kershaw
Jr and Lohse for Saltalamacchia

OldXOhio
06-12-2007, 11:38 AM
The final numbers on Milton's stint in Cincy:

66 starts, 370.1 IP, 439 H, 240 Earned Runs, 73 HRs, 16-27 record, and an ERA of...5.83.

or roughly $1.5 million per victory. Somehow, I don't feel quite so sorry for him.

Always Red
06-12-2007, 12:02 PM
Why didn't the Reds medical staff catch this before the season started--allowing for someone else to be the fifth pitcher all season and possibly giving the Reds a couple more wins at this point in time? Heck, they could be in 5th place by now.

If only medical diagnosis were so easy....

M2
06-12-2007, 12:21 PM
If only medical diagnosis were so easy....

Plus, I suspect the past month has been spent in the name of finding a reason to shut down Milton for the rest of 2007. My guess is Milton's elbow isn't so bad that he couldn't pitch with it. Clearly he didn't suffer a complete blowout. A better pitcher on a team that wasn't sporting the worst record in the National League might be out on the mound.

In Milton's case it might be a matter of this being surgery he eventually has to have and given the fact that he's unable to pitch well there's no reason not to have it right now.

Always Red
06-12-2007, 12:31 PM
I suspect that you are right, M2

The team probably told Milty they no longer needed his services, which is why he told the media "I can't talk about it." They looked and looked, scanned and imaged him from head to toe, and he probably got an opinion from Kremcheck and others on what he needed to do to try to salvage his baseball career.

TJ surgery has come a long way. Guys are coming back from that throwing just as well, if not better than they did before the surgery.

Milty's biggest problem is his knee. As mentioned above by others, this is probably what eventually led to the arm problems, overcompensating. The knee is a trickier problem, and eventually (ie- when he's older) he'll need a total knee (prosthetic). To my knowledge, Bo Jackson is the only baseball player who ever attempted playing with a prosthetic joint.

I don't blame Eric Milton, I blame the rush to sign him, with his history of recent (back then) knee surgery by a FO looking to make a public relations splash.

Best of luck to Milty. No question he was a major disappointment here, but he wasn't a jerk. By all accounts, a great guy and a great teammate. Sometimes things just don't work out, for either side in a transaction.

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 01:33 PM
I just looked at the schedule and I agree with you. I can easily see the Reds going 5-10 over the next 15 games.

No way, Bailey is going to go undefeated and every other starter will go 7 innings :D

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 01:34 PM
The final numbers on Milton's stint in Cincy:

66 starts, 370.1 IP, 439 H, 240 Earned Runs, 73 HRs, 16-27 record, and an ERA of...5.83.

We should all send a thank you card to Dan O

westofyou
06-12-2007, 01:36 PM
The final numbers on Milton's stint in Cincy:

66 starts, 370.1 IP, 439 H, 240 Earned Runs, 73 HRs, 16-27 record, and an ERA of...5.83.

For a guy with over 70 starts and less then 600 IP it's the worst ERA and HR rate vs the league average in National League history

That's 130 years folks, Eric Milton is the king of bad pitchers and the Reds paid him 24 million bucks to get that crown.

Yippeee



NATIONAL LEAGUE
CAREER

INNINGS PITCHED <= 600
GAMES STARTED > 70

ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE IP GS
1 Eric Milton -1.13 5.47 4.34 540 94
2 Jimmy Anderson -1.04 5.41 4.38 568.2 96
3 Victor Santos -1.03 5.35 4.32 437 73
4 Kevin Ritz -.99 5.20 4.21 576.1 98
5 Clint Hartung -.98 5.02 4.04 511 72
6 Shawn Chacon -.94 5.22 4.28 598.1 92
7 Snipe Hansen -.92 4.85 3.93 598 71
8 Shawn Boskie -.90 4.74 3.84 489.2 74
9 Scott Elarton -.89 5.36 4.47 599.1 89
10 Jesus Sanchez -.88 5.32 4.44 524.2 83

HOMERUNS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE IP GS
1 Eric Milton -47 112 65 540 94
2 Kevin Foster -33 86 53 492 83
3 Claudio Vargas -30 94 64 532.1 87
4 Bud Black -25 70 45 539.1 88
T5 Shawn Chacon -22 94 72 598.1 92
T5 Scott Elarton -22 97 75 599.1 89
T5 Larry Jaster -22 69 47 597 80
T8 Paul Byrd -19 90 71 585.2 79
T8 John Tsitouris -19 65 46 540 71
T8 Jamie Moyer -19 71 52 573 94

BRM
06-12-2007, 01:38 PM
For a guy with over 70 starts and less then 600 IP it's the worst ERA and HR rate vs the league average in National League history

That's 130 years folks, Eric Milton is the king of bad pitchers and the Reds paid him 24 million bucks to get that crown.


But I've been told countless times that he's no worse than every other team's 5th starter.

M2
06-12-2007, 01:43 PM
But I've been told countless times that he's no worse than every other team's 5th starter.

In some cases he may not be. The thing is when other teams have a pitcher pitch that poorly, they don't keep sending the guy out to the mound.

The Reds have this remarkable ability to live with situations other teams find intolerable.

15fan
06-12-2007, 02:30 PM
NATIONAL LEAGUE
CAREER

INNINGS PITCHED <= 600
GAMES STARTED > 70

ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE IP GS
1 Eric Milton -1.13 5.47 4.34 540 94
2 Jimmy Anderson -1.04 5.41 4.38 568.2 96
3 Victor Santos -1.03 5.35 4.32 437 73
4 Kevin Ritz -.99 5.20 4.21 576.1 98
5 Clint Hartung -.98 5.02 4.04 511 72
6 Shawn Chacon -.94 5.22 4.28 598.1 92
7 Snipe Hansen -.92 4.85 3.93 598 71
8 Shawn Boskie -.90 4.74 3.84 489.2 74
9 Scott Elarton -.89 5.36 4.47 599.1 89
10 Jesus Sanchez -.88 5.32 4.44 524.2 83

HOMERUNS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE IP GS
1 Eric Milton -47 112 65 540 94
2 Kevin Foster -33 86 53 492 83
3 Claudio Vargas -30 94 64 532.1 87
4 Bud Black -25 70 45 539.1 88
T5 Shawn Chacon -22 94 72 598.1 92
T5 Scott Elarton -22 97 75 599.1 89
T5 Larry Jaster -22 69 47 597 80
T8 Paul Byrd -19 90 71 585.2 79
T8 John Tsitouris -19 65 46 540 71
T8 Jamie Moyer -19 71 52 573 94

It's pretty cool that Milton's keeping company with guys named Jesus and Snipe.

#2 on the ERA list is another former Red fave - Jimmah Anderson.

#2 on the HR list was also briefly a Red. Does anyone remember why the Kevin Foster signing was voided in December '98?

OldXOhio
06-12-2007, 02:47 PM
I don't blame Eric Milton, I blame the rush to sign him, with his history of recent (back then) knee surgery by a FO looking to make a public relations splash.



Really? Well I do. I don't blame him for signing the contract and making his millions - good for him. And I think much of the burden must fall on the previous Reds brass that decided to make this collosal mistake. However, at the end of the day, no one is more directly responsible for Eric Milton's success than Eric Milton. He sucked. Period. Just because he's been shut down and has battled an array of injuries for three years doesn't mean we can't call the situation what it is.

Matt700wlw
06-12-2007, 03:25 PM
I never want to see someone injured, or have to go under the knife.....but the fact that Eric Milton won't pitch again for the Reds is nothing but a good thing.

I hope they don't do one of those minor league deals with an invite to Spring Training things with him, though....that would be a waste of time, energy, and money.

Matt700wlw
06-12-2007, 03:30 PM
But I've been told countless times that he's no worse than every other team's 5th starter.

He may not be, but he wasn't paid to be a fifth starter....

BoydsOfSummer
06-12-2007, 06:44 PM
Wow, that was a loooong 2 1/2 years. I might be able to drop my med dosage now. Oh, wait....

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 06:56 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=525232#post525232
Let us all bask in that one again :D

Always Red
06-12-2007, 08:11 PM
However, at the end of the day, no one is more directly responsible for Eric Milton's success than Eric Milton. He sucked. Period. Just because he's been shut down and has battled an array of injuries for three years doesn't mean we can't call the situation what it is.

no argument from me, there. You can call it whatever you like.

Wow, looking at woy's list from above, the Reds have recently employed the three worst pitchers in National League history, and two of them have served on the same pitchign staff, this year.

That's mind-boggling. :eek:

LawFive
06-12-2007, 08:17 PM
NATIONAL LEAGUE
CAREER

INNINGS PITCHED <= 600
GAMES STARTED > 70

ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE IP GS
1 Eric Milton -1.13 5.47 4.34 540 94
2 Jimmy Anderson -1.04 5.41 4.38 568.2 96
3 Victor Santos -1.03 5.35 4.32 437 73
10 Jesus Sanchez -.88 5.32 4.44 524.2 83

HOMERUNS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE IP GS
1 Eric Milton -47 112 65 540 94
2 Kevin Foster -33 86 53 492 83


#1,2,3, and 10 all pitched for the Reds.

That's just sad.

4256 Hits
06-12-2007, 10:33 PM
Milton, his wife, his kids, his future grand kids and his future great grand kids should send monthly thank you notes to Dan0 until the day he dies. Because DanO ill-advised contract set the Milton family up for generations.

Best of luck to you Eric in your future.

westofyou
06-13-2007, 12:17 PM
Since the strike here are the starters with the worst ERA vs the league average in the NL. At least 80 starts.

Just plain embarrassing


NATIONAL LEAGUE
CAREER
1995-2006

GAMES STARTED >= 80
RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE GS RSAA
1 Kevin Jarvis -1.44 5.78 4.34 106 -101
2 Eric Milton -1.13 5.47 4.34 94 -56
3 Jimmy Anderson -1.04 5.41 4.38 96 -63
4 Shawn Chacon -.94 5.22 4.28 92 -14
5 Kevin Ritz -.93 5.14 4.21 83 19
6 Scott Elarton -.89 5.36 4.47 89 -40
7 Jesus Sanchez -.88 5.32 4.44 83 -63
8 Jamey Wright -.81 5.15 4.34 233 -46
9 Paul Wilson -.74 5.01 4.27 92 -56
10 Jimmy Haynes -.72 5.08 4.36 118 -50

registerthis
06-13-2007, 12:20 PM
I'm seeing a lot of familiar names on that list, WOY.

A little TOO familiar, actually...

Chip R
06-13-2007, 12:53 PM
Milton thinks he can come back from this.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070613/SPT05/706130326/1035

KronoRed
06-13-2007, 01:36 PM
Well I hope he can, for someone else.

BRM
06-13-2007, 01:40 PM
Well I hope he can, for someone else.

I recommend that someone else be the Cubs.

15fan
06-13-2007, 02:50 PM
Or anyone else in the NL Central.

Chip R
06-13-2007, 04:07 PM
Or anyone else in the NL Central.


I recommend that someone else be the Cubs.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. We all know how much trouble the Reds have had against soft tossing lefties. If Milton is traded to a NL Central team, I fully expect him to come back and stick that ball up where the sun doesn't shine.