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RedEye
06-12-2007, 04:35 PM
Out of the discussion on my other thread on pitchers came the possibility of the Reds spending money on an OF next season. Obviously, this signing would be contingent on the possible trade of Adam Dunn or Ken Griffey, along with the end of Milton's contract.

Assuming the Reds have around $22 million to play with, here's a partial list of players who could be out there:

Bobby Abreu
Milton Bradley
Eric Byrnes
Jose Cruz, Jr.
Mike Cameron
Jermaine Dye
Darin Erstad
Cliff Floyd
Shawn Green
Jose Guillen
Torii Hunter
Kenny Lofton
Trot Nixon
Corey Patterson
Aaron Rowand
Shannon Stewart
Ichiro Suzuki
Brad Wilkerson
Rondell White

There are a few players that are clearly out of the Reds' range (Ichiro comes to mind here) or off their list (probably Guillen and Bradley). There are also a lot of them I can see Wayne making a play for, including Hunter, Byrnes, and Rowand in particular. All three can play a solid center field and provide a RH bat for the order (I think Rowand is a switch hitter).

In any case, I would assume the Reds would be looking for around a 3-year contract--just enough time to smooth the transition between what we currently have and the arrival of the next generation (Bruce, Stubbs, etc.)

What say you?

Red Leader
06-12-2007, 04:42 PM
What is Grumpy Old Men III?


Seriously, this is a who's who of old men still patroling the OF.

I could see Wayne having interest in Hunter (depending on price), Rowand and Byrnes (as you said).

Rowand and Byrnes are really the only two that interest me at all and they are both "role" players, IMO. They both play very good defense but aren't offensive catalysts. Byrnes has had a good year in 2007, but this might be his career year, IMO. Can't remember how old he is. Not much to be excited about. I wonder how easily the Tribe would give up Franklin Gutierrez. I like him.

BRM
06-12-2007, 04:46 PM
Rowand is trying to match his '04 season. MLBtraderumors had a blurb on him earlier today.



Rowand considers himself a possible "leftover" in a sea of free agent center fielders (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/03/2008_mlb_free_a.html). He's just being modest. Aside from Corey Patterson, who's having an awful year, and Milton Bradley, who's been on the DL three times this season, Rowand is the youngest available CF. He's more affordable than the Big Three (or Four if you include Mike Cameron) and younger too. He's a better defender than Eric Byrnes. And he's in the midst of a career year. If Rowand can stay healthy he may be looking at a Gary Matthews Jr. deal.

RedEye
06-12-2007, 04:48 PM
Hmmm... well, we certainly don't want Rowand for that type of deal...

Razor Shines
06-12-2007, 04:49 PM
Put me down for a big "No Thank You" to that list of guys. Geez.

And Byrnes is 31. I wouldn't want to dump a bunch of money into him.

BRM
06-12-2007, 04:51 PM
Wayne might be content to have an OF of Junior, Hamilton, Hopper/Freel next year.

schroomytunes
06-12-2007, 04:51 PM
Well of the above group I like Rowand the best. He plays a mean CF and can bat in the top of the order. I would then go out and get some bullpen help. This team is not that far away....we just havent put it together yet.

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 04:52 PM
Looking at this list makes me support picking up the Dunn option more.

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 04:53 PM
Wayne might be content to have an OF of Junior, Hamilton, Hopper/Freel next year.

:help:

BRM
06-12-2007, 04:53 PM
RedEye forgot to put Kenny Lofton on the list...

RedEye
06-12-2007, 04:53 PM
Wayne might be content to have an OF of Junior, Hamilton, Hopper/Freel next year.

Sure, but then you're only one Junior injury away from Hopper-Hamilton-Freel. Yeesh.

BRM
06-12-2007, 04:53 PM
:help:

You know it's the outfield you really want to see.

Red Leader
06-12-2007, 04:54 PM
RedEye forgot to put Kenny Lofton on the list...

Unfortunately, I think that decreases the average age of that group... :laugh:

RedEye
06-12-2007, 04:54 PM
RedEye forgot to put Kenny Lofton on the list...

He's there now. Do you want to sign him or something?

MartyFan
06-12-2007, 04:55 PM
Of the list, Rowand was the guy that jumped off the page at me...I would like to see him in a Reds uni for 3 years...I think he is worth more than Matthews who had the ONE GOOD YEAR and then got the deal of a lifetime.

It may be just me but I think Rowands has been more consistent than Matthews.

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 04:55 PM
You know it's the outfield you really want to see.

I know the radio booth would love it.

Depending on Freel and JR to stay healthy for 162 games is insanity

BRM
06-12-2007, 04:55 PM
He's there now. Do you want to sign him or something?

Heavens no. I was being silly.

BRM
06-12-2007, 04:56 PM
I know the radio booth would love it.

Depending on Freel and JR to stay healthy for 162 games is insanity

I just hope the radio booth doesn't clamor for Erstad to be signed over the winter.

Red Leader
06-12-2007, 04:56 PM
Could you imagine an OF with Freel AND Rowand?

The Reds would have to give out crash helmets to fans sitting in the 10 rows closest to the field.

Razor Shines
06-12-2007, 04:57 PM
Well of the above group I like Rowand the best. He plays a mean CF and can bat in the top of the order. I would then go out and get some bullpen help. This team is not that far away....we just havent put it together yet.

I don't know about batting at the top of the order. His career OBP is .340 (.321 in '06). That includes this year where his OBP is .387, but he's hitting .319, last year he hit .262. If he can keep it up there for an entire season that would be one thing, but we'll have to see.

PuffyPig
06-12-2007, 05:08 PM
Assuming the Reds have around $22 million to play with.....

Curious, where did you get that number from?

Red Leader
06-12-2007, 05:11 PM
Curious, where did you get that number from?

I'm not him, but I bet this is it:

Dunn - $13M (Option for 2008)
Milton - $9M (Salary in 2007, no contract for 2008)

If we don't pick up Dunn's option, we have to buyout the option, which I believe is $500K. So, it's more like $21.5M, but you get the point.

Benihana
06-12-2007, 05:13 PM
Wayne might be content to have an OF of Junior, Hamilton, Hopper/Freel next year.

That makes two of us. Bruce should be up by late summer (next year of course). Hunter will be WAY too expensive. Look for him to go to TEX or CHW.

paulrichjr
06-12-2007, 05:22 PM
That makes two of us. Bruce should be up by late summer (next year of course). Hunter will be WAY too expensive. Look for him to go to TEX or CHW.


Will Bruce really be ready by next summer? That seems early to me however I have never seen him play. Just curious if this is reality.

KronoRed
06-12-2007, 05:31 PM
That would be big jump for Bruce, but not out of the ordinary, 2009 is more of a logical time for him to arrive

PuffyPig
06-12-2007, 05:32 PM
I'm not him, but I bet this is it:

Dunn - $13M (Option for 2008)
Milton - $9M (Salary in 2007, no contract for 2008)

If we don't pick up Dunn's option, we have to buyout the option, which I believe is $500K. So, it's more like $21.5M, but you get the point.

Well, assuming that's true, it assumes that the Reds payroll would increase next year to incorporate's Dunn's raise (from about $10M to $13M). We really only save $10M next year. There's no way Dunn's option won't be picked upIf that's the thought, he will simply be traded this year.

Also, we have many raises to contend with. Harang and Aroyo have agreed to raises, other players are arb. elegible and will further eat up those savings. Gonzalez, Wheathers, Stanton all get more next year.

I doubt we have $10 extra to spend, even if Dunn is gone.

If Dunn is gone, look to us to sign a cheap, 1 year contract with someone who can hit but lacks other skills (a Matt Stairs/Craig Wilson type from the past, not necessarily those guys). The last thing we need is a large long term contact for an average OF.

Spitball
06-12-2007, 05:36 PM
If the Reds are to get into the bidding wars for any free agents, I certainly hope they go after quality pitching of any kind and not outfielders. Affordable outfielders can be developed through the farm system or acquired through trade.

The free agent contracts signed by Jacque Jones, Juan Pierre, Gary Matthews, and a number of other outfielders over the last few seasons show that the market will drive up the value of the easiest position to develop and acquire. Teams will shell out too much money for outfielders while promising youngsters like Felix Pie, Matt Murton, Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, Chris Denorfia, and other promising young and inexpensive outfielders are robbed of playing time.

mth123
06-12-2007, 11:07 PM
Well, assuming that's true, it assumes that the Reds payroll would increase next year to incorporate's Dunn's raise (from about $10M to $13M). We really only save $10M next year. There's no way Dunn's option won't be picked upIf that's the thought, he will simply be traded this year.

Also, we have many raises to contend with. Harang and Aroyo have agreed to raises, other players are arb. elegible and will further eat up those savings. Gonzalez, Wheathers, Stanton all get more next year.

I doubt we have $10 extra to spend, even if Dunn is gone.

If Dunn is gone, look to us to sign a cheap, 1 year contract with someone who can hit but lacks other skills (a Matt Stairs/Craig Wilson type from the past, not necessarily those guys). The last thing we need is a large long term contact for an average OF.

There is a lot more available than that. Below is a list that assumes expiring contracts are not renewed, existing raises factored in and younger guys estimated (see type S for Signed, E for Estimated). This shows if nothing is done the salary would decrease by about $8.5 Million. Some moves could make that flexability grow quickly. For example, assume Mike Stanton can be moved. He goes from a $1 Million increase to a $2 Million Decrease. If Guys like Stanton, Freel and Weathers are moved there would be in excess of $15 Million available for 2008. Big Raises in 2009 for Harang, Arroyo and probably Phillips could hopefully be funded by moving players like Ross, Gonzalez (assuming some young talent is acquired in the purge) and of course Griffey. I think the Reds could afford a big splash for a starting pitcher this offseason w/o shipping Dunn out, but there would be little left for anything else. Hopefully enough young cheap talent could be acquired to fill in other areas.
(Excuse the abbreviations, but I don't want to mess with spending a lot of time lining this up.)




Name Inc. Type Name Dec.
Dunn 2.5 S Milton (9.0)
Harang 2.5 S Larue (3.0)
Arroyo 2.7 S Cormier (2.3)
Gonz. 1.1 S Lohse (4.2)
Stanton 1.0 S Conine (2.0)
Weath. 0.5 S Hatte (1.3)
Freel 1.3 S Saarl. (1.2)
Ross 0.9 S Moeller (0.7)
Javy 0.1 S EdG. (0.5)
Castro 0.1 S Santos (0.4)
Coffey 0.5 S Wilson (0.9)
Griffey 0.0 S
EdE 0.1 E
Phil. 1.5 E
Belisle 1.5 E
Ham. 0.1 E
Votto 0.4 E
Hopper 0.0 E
McBeth 0.0 E
Cout 0.0 E
Bailey 0.2 E
Burton 0.0 E
Salmon 0.0 E
Bray 0.0 E
Maj 0.0 E
Kepp. 0.3 E
Total 17.3 Total (25.5)

RedEye
06-13-2007, 12:38 AM
Curious, where did you get that number from?

Milton is what, around $9 million, and Dunn is $13.5 million, which equals around $22 million, no?

KronoRed
06-13-2007, 02:54 AM
Raises and the like will probably eat most of that up, and I don't see the total payroll amount being upped.