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View Full Version : Marty apologizes for "Death march" remark



Chip R
06-13-2007, 10:49 AM
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070613/SPT05/706130318/1035

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 10:58 AM
He is a bitter man swimming in negativity. Glad to see somebody hold him accountable for once -- but not surprised the objection originated thousands of miles away from Cincinnati.

Krusty
06-13-2007, 11:22 AM
He is a bitter man swimming in negativity. Glad to see somebody hold him accountable for once -- but not surprised the objection originated thousands of miles away from Cincinnati.

At least the guy went on the air and held himself accountable to what he said. That is more than what some people can do.

smith288
06-13-2007, 11:26 AM
In the end, when we are through with that west coast swing, Marty will have been most likely right....

PuffyPig
06-13-2007, 11:36 AM
The Reds went 4-5 on their recent road trip.

They are 3-1 in our current homestand againt first place teams.

They are playing pretty good baseball right now, and getting some pretty good starting pitching. We won games in which 2 very good starting pitchers (Sabathia and Escobar) pitched lights out.

They are 8-6 in their most recent games.

To make a statement like he did at this time is very bitter. He seems happier when we are losing than when we are playing pretty good baseball.Will we continue to play this kind of baseball? Maybe not. But lets enjoy it while we can. Hamilton looks good. Bailey is fun to cheer for. Griffey is always fun to watch.

paulrichjr
06-13-2007, 11:38 AM
These remarks were terrible and not because of it dealing with the Reds. I think the people that were in it would be offended as well they should. I know someone who was in it and I'm sure that he wouldn't care for this awful part of his life being compared to a baseball team's losing streak.


Here is the article:



Reds radio broadcaster Marty Brennaman issued an on-air apology Tuesday night for comparing the Reds' upcoming road trip to the Bataan Death March.

As the Reds batted in the first inning, Brennaman said he wanted to make a "profound apology" for the remark about the trip, an 11-day, nine-game swing through Oakland, Seattle and Philadelphia that begins Monday. The remark was wrong, he said, "and I profusely apologize."

Brennaman said a fan who lives in New Mexico heard the remark and complained in an e-mail to Reds management.

During World War II, about 70,000 captured American and Filipino soldiers were forced by the Japanese to travel more than 60 miles from the Philippine province of Bataan to a prison camp in Tarlac. Only about 54,000 reached the camp; the death toll was difficult to calculate because many escaped or were released.

registerthis
06-13-2007, 11:41 AM
To make a statement like he did at this time is very bitter.

Glossed over the fact that the Reds are the worst team in the NL and 13 games under .500, did we?

He used a poor choice for an analogy, but this is a bad team. No two ways about it.

westofyou
06-13-2007, 12:00 PM
The Reds went 4-5 on their recent road trip.

They are 3-1 in our current homestand againt first place teams.

Home


.257 .330 .469 .799

Away


.248 .311 .388 .699

paulrichjr
06-13-2007, 12:24 PM
Home


.257 .330 .469 .799

Away


.248 .311 .388 .699


westofyou:

I appreciate your insight but sometimes you quote things and I am not sure what you are quoting. Could you just put the headings over the top. I know what a couple of the columns are but I am not sure about a couple of others. It would just help for idiots like me....

Chip R
06-13-2007, 12:25 PM
I'll give him credit. He screwed up and apologized. If more people would do that when they screwed up there wouldn't be so many big deals made when people say dumb things.

Unassisted
06-13-2007, 12:29 PM
I'll give him credit. He screwed up and apologized. If more people would do that when they screwed up there wouldn't be so many big deals made when people say dumb things.

Hear, Hear. I give Marty as hard a time as anyone on the board, but I respect that he apologized for making this particular analogy when called out on it.

westofyou
06-13-2007, 12:33 PM
westofyou:

I appreciate your insight but sometimes you quote things and I am not sure what you are quoting. Could you just put the headings over the top. I know what a couple of the columns are but I am not sure about a couple of others. It would just help for idiots like me....

Noted, however for future reference the three grouped usually goes BA/OB%/SLG%. Then OPS

The above says the Reds can't hit out of a wet paper bag on the road

paulrichjr
06-13-2007, 12:36 PM
Noted, however for future reference the three grouped usually goes BA/OB%/SLG%. Then OPS

The above says the Reds can't hit out of a wet paper bag on the road

Thanks... I knew BA and OPS... Wasn't sure on the others. Hey maybe you could teach a class. :D

Danny Serafini
06-13-2007, 12:36 PM
Maybe it's just me, but this looks like a classic mountain out of a molehole situation.

Caveat Emperor
06-13-2007, 12:42 PM
Maybe it's just me, but this looks like a classic mountain out of a molehole situation.

A lot of people who make big deals out of stuff like this would be surprised at the things that came out of their own mouths if someone sat a microphone in front of them and told them to "have at it" for 3 hours a night.

Much ado about absolutely nothing. Next thing you know James Cameron will be suing every time Marty mention's the nightly attendance.

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 12:44 PM
At least the guy went on the air and held himself accountable to what he said. That is more than what some people can do.

It's clear that Franchester was instructed by Reds management to make the apology. I doubt he'd have had a crisis of conscience and apologized on his own.

registerthis
06-13-2007, 12:46 PM
It's clear that Franchester was instructed by Reds management to make the apology. I doubt he'd have had a crisis of conscience and apologized on his own.

That's more than a bit harsh.

M2
06-13-2007, 12:54 PM
It's a weird apology though. He's basically apologizing to a handful of remaining Bataan survivors. Meanwhile the notion that the Reds' lead broadcaster is comparing an upcoming road trip to a death march seems to be taken in stride. I happen to agree that this trip lines up as potential wallop, but I'd think a guy who's being paid to broadcast the games would refrain from saying, essentially, that a stretch of games is going to be unpleasant and you might not want to tune in for the ugliness that will ensue.

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 12:54 PM
That's more than a bit harsh.

Put it this way -- I am pleased that Reds management held Franchester accountable.

registerthis
06-13-2007, 12:58 PM
Put it this way -- I am pleased that Reds management held Franchester accountable.

You're assuming that they did.

Wheelhouse
06-13-2007, 01:00 PM
He is a bitter man swimming in negativity. Glad to see somebody hold him accountable for once -- but not surprised the objection originated thousands of miles away from Cincinnati.

I don't understand the frequent use of the word "bitter" about Marty. What does he have to be bitter about? What has he not achieved in his profession? Or, how has he not been recognized by his achievements? He's is in the Hall of Fame. He is revered by an entire city and everyone in his profession. Ownership went out of its way to bring his son from a big market franchise back to Cincinnati. Marty has always been outspoken about his opinions and has been just as profuse in his praise of players as in his criticism. What Marty never has been and never will be is a stats-oriented, SABR-type guy. His analysis is based on thousands and thousands of innings of experience watching the game from an insider's point-of-view. I take exception to people attacking his character simply because he doesn't look at the game from their perspective. And yes, railing on Marty for being "bitter" is an attack on his character, professionalism, and flat out insult. So much has been made of "beating a dead horse" or "trolling" on the board--I for one, and I think Marty, would have no problem with a post about him that began,"What Marty fails to see..." or, "The numbers tell a different story than Marty does," but to constantly characterize him as a "bitter old man," is 1) posting below the board's hard-fought standards and 2) simply not true.

westofyou
06-13-2007, 01:00 PM
I'd think a guy who's being paid to broadcast the games would refrain from saying, essentially, that a stretch of games is going to be unpleasant and you might not want to tune in for the ugliness that will ensue.

Warms your cockles doesn't it?

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 01:03 PM
It's a weird apology though. He's basically apologizing to a handful of remaining Bataan survivors. Meanwhile the notion that the Reds' lead broadcaster is comparing an upcoming road trip to a death march seems to be taken in stride. I happen to agree that this trip lines up as potential wallop, but I'd think a guy who's being paid to broadcast the games would refrain from saying, essentially, that a stretch of games is going to be unpleasant and you might not want to tune in for the ugliness that will ensue.

Absolutely the case -- this is why I began by saying he's a bitter guy swimming in negativity. That a remark he makes in passing, mixed in with the usual smattering of bile, would be offensive to some is no surprise and probably par for the course. It just so happens that the Reds, with John Allen, are big into honoring veterans, so he got called on the carpet.

RedFanAlways1966
06-13-2007, 01:04 PM
There are just some things that should not be compared to things like sports. This Marty comment is not a huge thing, but it is definitely inappropriate.

As Chip mentions above it is very good of Marty to apolgize. No one is perfect, but it takes a big person to admit they were wrong.

Now... let's move on.

RANDY IN INDY
06-13-2007, 01:13 PM
A lot of people who make big deals out of stuff like this would be surprised at the things that came out of their own mouths if someone sat a microphone in front of them and told them to "have at it" for 3 hours a night.

Much ado about absolutely nothing. Next thing you know James Cameron will be suing every time Marty mention's the nightly attendance.

:beerme:

MartyFan
06-13-2007, 01:15 PM
I don't get why he had to apologize at all...when you look at the teams that the Reds are going to be facing with the way the Reds have been playing it isn't an uncommon analogy when the cards seem stacked against you...touchy touchy.

dabvu2498
06-13-2007, 01:22 PM
I don't get why he had to apologize at all...when you look at the teams that the Reds are going to be facing with the way the Reds have been playing it isn't an uncommon analogy when the cards seem stacked against you...touchy touchy.

Well, when he got specific, I think he crossed the line, maybe a little bit. I can see where that would be a sticky subject for someone who had ties to that specific event.

No one complains when an announcer says Hamilton has a rifle arm or Dunn hit a bomb.

I'm glad he apologized and doubt that he had to be called on the carpet by management once he found out that a listener had taken exception.

M2
06-13-2007, 01:23 PM
I don't get why he had to apologize at all...when you look at the teams that the Reds are going to be facing with the way the Reds have been playing it isn't an uncommon analogy when the cards seem stacked against you...touchy touchy.

Officially, he apologized for comparing the Bataan Death March to something as trivial as a baseball road trip. Though you're right that it's a fairly common language device and that we've gotten way too PC when a guy has to apologize for using it.

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 01:23 PM
So much has been made of "beating a dead horse" or "trolling" on the board--I for one, and I think Marty, would have no problem with a post about him that began,"What Marty fails to see..." or, "The numbers tell a different story than Marty does," but to constantly characterize him as a "bitter old man," is 1) posting below the board's hard-fought standards and 2) simply not true.

Appreciate the insight.

Chip R
06-13-2007, 01:29 PM
It's a weird apology though. He's basically apologizing to a handful of remaining Bataan survivors. Meanwhile the notion that the Reds' lead broadcaster is comparing an upcoming road trip to a death march seems to be taken in stride. I happen to agree that this trip lines up as potential wallop, but I'd think a guy who's being paid to broadcast the games would refrain from saying, essentially, that a stretch of games is going to be unpleasant and you might not want to tune in for the ugliness that will ensue.

Not necessarily just to them but to their families too more than likely. If my father died on the Bataan Death March and I heard that remark by Marty, I might be offended and I'd have every right to be offended.


I don't get why he had to apologize at all...when you look at the teams that the Reds are going to be facing with the way the Reds have been playing it isn't an uncommon analogy when the cards seem stacked against you...touchy touchy.

Because he offended someone with that remark. I know this is a shock to some but Marty isn't perfect. He makes mistakes from time to time and he made one by saying what he did. It may be touchy to you and maybe even to him but bottom line is that he offended someone and he apologized. He didn't have his attorney put out a statement or issue some non-apology apology. He said flat out that he was wrong and he was sorry he said it. No veterans' groups will be picketing GAB asking for Marty's resignation, it won't be a cause celeb on the news for a week. It's over. Case closed.

Now I'm looking forward to when he apologizes to Pedro for calling him a boob. ;)

pedro
06-13-2007, 01:39 PM
Now I'm looking forward to when he apologizes to Pedro for calling him a boob. ;)

He's just telling it like it is.

MartyFan
06-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Our culture has is overboard PC...when I was in High School WAY BACK IN THE 80's...the 1980's, thank you. When we would walk into a test unprepared or when we faced a more powerful team that was not an uncommon phrase to hear uttered...for those of you who may have been offended by that statement or the use of the word "utter" I using it for the purpose of what is spoken, not for what hangs from the chest of a female bovine that produce milk and some may mistake for some sort of exotic, dare I say erotic subliminal message.

Just covering the PC bases...oh, but where does the word base come from...should we not call them bases any longer because we have men and women stationed abroad who live in areas commonly called bases?

Please someone help me!

KittyDuran
06-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Not necessarily just to them but to their families too more than likely. If my father died on the Bataan Death March and I heard that remark by Marty, I might be offended and I'd have every right to be offended.
That's very true... it might seem trivial and very touchy to some but to others who had family members who went through similiar ordeals would see thing differently...My Dad missed the Bataan March by about a month (earlier) and was a Japanese POW for 3.5 years.


He's basically apologizing to a handful of remaining Bataan survivors. And that's pretty much what is left. 3 years ago I helped my Dad drive down to Houston for a POW/Ship reunion which about 25 survivors attended. This year my parents attended and only 7 showed up. :(

MartyFan
06-13-2007, 02:06 PM
I had three uncles in The Battle of the Bulge...Two didn't come home...I never met them and only heard stories about that battle sparingly because it was "too horrific to retell"...with that in mind, when I hear a commercial that is talking about weight loss being the battle of the bulge should I look for an apology?

EDIT:

BTW, Kitty...I am grateful for your fathers sacrifice and service to our country.

membengal
06-13-2007, 02:09 PM
Udder?

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 02:14 PM
He is a bitter man swimming in negativity. Glad to see somebody hold him accountable for once -- but not surprised the objection originated thousands of miles away from Cincinnati.

You've never said anything you shouldn't without really thinking?

You're a better man than most...

membengal
06-13-2007, 02:15 PM
He probably never has over 50,000 watts...

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 02:16 PM
It's clear that Franchester was instructed by Reds management to make the apology. I doubt he'd have had a crisis of conscience and apologized on his own.

Reds management recieved an email from someone who was offended by the remarks, so they made him aware of it....I'm sure if that person would have sent it do the Reds on Radio email address, or to Marty himself (if he has a direct email) he would have done the same thing

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 02:17 PM
He probably never has over 50,000 watts...

I doubt he has, neither have I (yet, perhaps ;))...but Marty admitted he was wrong, which some people can't do who don't have 50,000 Watts at their disposal.

membengal
06-13-2007, 02:19 PM
I am less concerned about the apparent death march offensiveness (frankly, I've used that expression many times without giving it a second thought) than the fact that Marty is pre-slagging on the upcoming road trip.

But, tellin' it like it is and all that, I know, I know.

RedsManRick
06-13-2007, 02:22 PM
Marty has every right to say what he said. Just like people have every right to be offended by it and complain. What he said may or may not be right/wrong on some moral level, but it definitely was wrong on a business level. He apologized, end of story.

Agree on the earlier point though. Attack incorrect facts. Attack abrasive style. But leave the gross characterizations elsewhere.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 02:23 PM
I am less concerned about the apparent death march offensiveness (frankly, I've used that expression many times without giving it a second thought) than the fact that Marty is pre-slagging on the upcoming road trip.

But, tellin' it like it is and all that, I know, I know.

Trust me, he's not saying how brutal the road trip is on himself, he enjoys the travel...he's saying how brutal is in baseball terms, based on the teams they are playing, on the coast, and another 9 team 10 day road trip, which for some reason the Reds have more of than any other team in baseball.


But I know, Marty is not allowed to have an opinion...

BRM
06-13-2007, 02:25 PM
But I know, Marty is not allowed to have an opinion...

Oh, he's allowed to have an opinion. Just like RedsZone is allowed to state how wrong his opinion usually is. ;)

membengal
06-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Matt, we've been down this road 1000 times before in similar threads, and I will agree that we continue to disagree about how and when Marty expresses his famous opinions.

There remains a line that I wish he could see as he is doing it that would express the opinion without being excessively negative. Trust me, he's good enough, always has been, to do so without being (danger word, I know)...bitter. Or coming across as bitter.

I continue to want him to once again find that line. I hold out fleeting hope he can do so.

Peace.

Danny Serafini
06-13-2007, 02:26 PM
The fact that he had to apologize because all of one person complained is pretty sad if you ask me. If people had to apologize after every single complaint nothing would ever be said.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 02:28 PM
The fact that he had to apologize because all of one person complained is pretty sad if you ask me. If people had to apologize after every single complaint nothing would ever be said.

I won't disagree with that....

I'll be honest, I didn't even remember him saying that when he brought it up last night.

traderumor
06-13-2007, 02:32 PM
The beautiful thing is that Marty just stubbed his toe and had to apologize for a bad analogy like old leatherpants and his 9/11 remarks in relation to the almost strike back in '03 or '04. Birds of a feather and all :evil:

This one person in New Mexico is probably the only person listening who actually knew what in the world he was talking about. Many probably thought he was talking about a track relay. I know I had never heard of this before, and I are a colage graduwit (from tOSU no less)

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 02:37 PM
You've never said anything you shouldn't without really thinking?

You're a better man than most...

Sure, I have. A lot.

I'm no fan of Marty's, though, and I am of the opinion he submitted this apology in deference to his employer. That's how these things usually work -- management hears from a dissatisfied customer, relevant employee is called to task to mollify dissatisfied customer.

I don't see how this episode speaks to the excellence in his character in any way at all, despite several posters' having saluted him already. He created a stir as a byproduct of his waxing either bilious about the road trip itself or hopelessly gloomy about the Reds' chances on the trip -- stances which strike me as jaded -- and then he apologizes for creating the stir. It strikes me as significant that had he never felt compelled to either complain about the length of the road trip, or bury the Reds' chances of doing well on the trip, this episode never would have happened.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm just saying, whether the Reds informed Marty of what he said..which they did because they recieved the email, or the individual notified Marty on his own, I believe Marty would have appologized.

He doesn't want to offend people with something that affects them personally, believe me.

He'll give you his opinion (whether you want it or not) on the state of the team, which may cause debate, and may stir up emotion in fans, but he's not out to offend someone with his comments.

It's supposed to be fun...it's sports. Not everyone has to agree for it to be fun...in fact, if everybody did, that wouldn't be all that much fun.

Some will say, it's not his job to give his opinion.......and that's your opinion.

That's his style, that's his approach, and he's not going to change it.

KittyDuran
06-13-2007, 02:42 PM
I had three uncles in The Battle of the Bulge...Two didn't come home...I never met them and only heard stories about that battle sparingly because it was "too horrific to retell"...with that in mind, when I hear a commercial that is talking about weight loss being the battle of the bulge should I look for an apology?

EDIT:

BTW, Kitty...I am grateful for your fathers sacrifice and service to our country.I had an uncle in The Battle of The Bulge, too... lost part of his shoulder. IMHO, my Dad would probably not be too offended by Marty saying it - but would be glad he did apologized-even if it was only to one person. Now, if Marty was a politician... watch out!!! ;)

Chip R
06-13-2007, 02:45 PM
The fact that he had to apologize because all of one person complained is pretty sad if you ask me. If people had to apologize after every single complaint nothing would ever be said.


You don't get it. He didn't have to apologize at all. He could have done nothing or he could have crabbed about the PC police but he didn't. I don't always agree with what he says on air but I respect him for apologizing straight away for saying something someone took offense to when he didn't have to.

Danny Serafini
06-13-2007, 02:53 PM
You don't get it. He didn't have to apologize at all. He could have done nothing or he could have crabbed about the PC police but he didn't. I don't always agree with what he says on air but I respect him for apologizing straight away for saying something someone took offense to when he didn't have to.

Unless you were in the inner offices of WLW when Marty was informed, you don't know what happened either. He may have been informed straight away that he was going to apologize. Or maybe he decided to apologize himself. But the impression I get is that WLW wanted him to apologize, regardless of whether Marty would've on his own. And that I do find sad, that they would want him to apologize after a single complaint.

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 02:58 PM
I respect him for apologizing straight away for saying something someone took offense to when he didn't have to.

It's quite possible he was "strongly encouraged" by his employer to apologize, given that the complaint was made to management, not to Brennaman. Knowing how John Allen feels about veterans, it's reasonable to assume management wanted to see this issue addressed quickly and in no uncertain terms.

Yachtzee
06-13-2007, 03:00 PM
The fact that he had to apologize because all of one person complained is pretty sad if you ask me. If people had to apologize after every single complaint nothing would ever be said.

I suspect only one guy complained because, as I believe it was stated earlier in this thread, there just aren't that many survivors around today. The Bataan Death March was an atrocious war crime such that survivors and their families have every right to be offended by flippant remarks about it, just as someone would be rightfully offended if sending the Reds up against Roy Oswalt would be akin to sending them to the gas chambers at Auschwitz. It's in terribly poor taste.

That being said, I think the right steps were taken. Marty said something that offended someone, that person complained, it was brought to Marty's attention and in rethinking it, Marty felt it necessary to apologize. He did so on air. That should pretty much end the story right there.

KittyDuran
06-13-2007, 03:09 PM
I suspect only one guy complained because, as I believe it was stated earlier in this thread, there just aren't that many survivors around today. The Bataan Death March was an atrocious war crime such that survivors and their families have every right to be offended by flippant remarks about it, just as someone would be rightfully offended if sending the Reds up against Roy Oswalt would be akin to sending them to the gas chambers at Auschwitz. It's in terribly poor taste.

That being said, I think the right steps were taken. Marty said something that offended someone, that person complained, it was brought to Marty's attention and in rethinking it, Marty felt it necessary to apologize. He did so on air. That should pretty much end the story right there.Very well said...:thumbup:

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 03:38 PM
It's quite possible he was "strongly encouraged" by his employer to apologize, given that the complaint was made to management, not to Brennaman. Knowing how John Allen feels about veterans, it's reasonable to assume management wanted to see this issue addressed quickly and in no uncertain terms.

You just don't want to think that Marty is a good human being who made a mistake do you? You don't want to accept the fact that Marty thought about what he said when it was brought to his attention and realized he shouldn't have done it, do you?

If Marty is a jerk and the Reds made him appolgize helps you sleep at night, more power to you.

He said something, offended someone, appologized for it...why is that not enough?

Ltlabner
06-13-2007, 03:38 PM
I agree 100% that he didn't "have to" applogize, he realized that it bothered some folks, he appologized, and that, as they say, is that.

I guess I don't understand why people take issue with him pointing out this road trip is going to be a very difficult one for the club. Should he lie? Say nothing at all? Pretend it isn't hapening?

I know some folks would like Marty to be more of a "marketing tool" for lack of a better term. So it would be like Jim Scott doing a Reds game. No thanks. I don't have a problem with him pointing out that this is a very difficult impending road trip....something that most everybody already sees and recognizes. Don't partonize me by pretending otherwise.

membengal
06-13-2007, 03:41 PM
And if he pointed it out like that, ltl, most people wouldn't blink. "The Reds have a very difficult road trip coming up, and given their history on west coast swings, it's worrisome" would be preferable (and good radio) to comparing the upcoming road trip to one of the most notorious war-time acts of the 20th century. It's a matter of degree. It's, as usual, the fine line that many of us wish he could find in expressing his opinions.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 03:42 PM
And if he pointed it out like that, ltl, most people wouldn't blink. "The Reds have a very difficult road trip coming up, and given their history on west coast swings, it's worrisome" would be preferable (and good radio) to comparing the upcoming road trip to one of the most notorious war-time acts of the 20th century. It's a matter of degree. It's, as usual, the fine line that many of us wish he could find in expressing his opinions.

If it came up again, he would probably word it differently.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 03:42 PM
It's amazing that something this small has turned into a 4 page debate...

Ltlabner
06-13-2007, 03:43 PM
And if he pointed it out like that, ltl, most people wouldn't blink. "The Reds have a very difficult road trip coming up, and given their history on west coast swings, it's worrisome" would be preferable (and good radio) to comparing the upcoming road trip to one of the most notorious war-time acts of the 20th century. It's a matter of degree. It's, as usual, the fine line that many of us wish he could find in expressing his opinions.

Oh, I agree about the Bataan part of the equation. But take that out of the equation for a moment, I guess I was getting the vibe that some folks didn't like that he even pointed out that it was likely to be a brutal trip, let alone to do so in a poor manner.

BRM
06-13-2007, 03:43 PM
It's amazing that something this small has turned into a 4 page debate...

I'm not surprised at all. Marty is a lightning rod for discussion on this board.

membengal
06-13-2007, 03:43 PM
And to be clear, I am simply pointing out that it's possible to express the worry while leaving some room for hope. There's always hope.

M2
06-13-2007, 03:44 PM
I guess I don't understand why people take issue with him pointing out this road trip is going to be a very difficult one for the club. Should he lie? Say nothing at all? Pretend it isn't hapening?

Well, he could say the Reds are going to be running into some good clubs on their upcoming roadtrip instead of making it sound like a horrific event. Just a thought.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 03:46 PM
I'm not surprised at all. Marty is a lightning rod for discussion on this board.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised...I've been around here long enough :)

Ltlabner
06-13-2007, 03:50 PM
Well, he could say the Reds are going to be running into some good clubs on their upcoming roadtrip instead of making it sound like a horrific event. Just a thought.

Unlike the hysteria that will take place on RZ?

Nearly every fan that pays a modicum of attention to baseball knows that any west coast trip is a very difficult proposition. I know it's a matter of opinion, but I have no problem with him stating what every other person is likely already thinking about the trip.

We've been round and round about this, but having an announcer with zero opinions is dull and boring (to me personally). I don't care if he's wrong (and Marty is wrong about lots of stuff) but for gods sake, take a position. Other wise you get the sugar coated pap that's available on many other team broadcasts.

BoydsOfSummer
06-13-2007, 03:58 PM
It offends me more when he says the Reds are a better team with Hopper instead of Dunn in LF. :D But I have no connection to the Baataan Death March personally.

I'm as big a basher of Franchester as they come, but he is much better this year with Brantley to keep him on his game. I've only listened to 5-6 games ,as I normally watch them. Very improved compared to the last several years from what I can tell from my limited exposure.

M2
06-13-2007, 04:05 PM
Unlike the hysteria that will take place on RZ?

We're not paid to represent the club. And, for the record, I look forward to games against good teams because I like baseball and my mood cycles aren't tied to the Reds' W-L record.


We've been round and round about this, but having an announcer with zero opinions is dull and boring (to me personally). I don't care if he's wrong (and Marty is wrong about lots of stuff) but for gods sake, take a position. Other wise you get the sugar coated pap that's available on many other team broadcasts.

A) I'm sick and tired of opinion for opinion's sake in all forms of media and consider Marty an egregious offender. Sometimes all that's required is information.

B) There's a lot to talk about in the game of baseball. IMO it would have been far more interesting to discuss the challenges posed by the teams on the upcoming roadtrip than to bemoan that the Reds have got some tough games ahead.

C) I happen to think he's right that the roadtrip will go poorly for the Reds. Despite that I think the games should be interesting and hope the Reds rise to the occasion. I wouldn't want to watch the Bataan Death March. Baseball games against quality opponents interest me however.

D) I prefer most every other team's broadcasters to Marty's angry old man schtick.

lollipopcurve
06-13-2007, 04:13 PM
I prefer most every other team's broadcasters to Marty's angry old man schtick.

Yep. I sometimes think that if folks who hadn't heard anyone but Marty got the chance to listen to other broadcasters, they'd think differently about our very own Hall of Famer.

Caveat Emperor
06-13-2007, 04:15 PM
We've been round and round about this, but having an announcer with zero opinions is dull and boring (to me personally). I don't care if he's wrong (and Marty is wrong about lots of stuff) but for gods sake, take a position. Other wise you get the sugar coated pap that's available on many other team broadcasts.

There is a difference between having your PBP man be nothing but a pitchman for the product in the booth (think a WWF commentator) and having him present the action from an impartial viewpoint.

I agree with M2 completely on this -- our culture is so oversaturated with people who proclaim opinions and stances from their soapboxes that we rarely ever discuss the facts those opinions are based on (Lou Dobbs writes an excellent bit on that in his last book, how "he said, she said" journalism and split-screen talking head shouting matches are now what passes for unbiased journalism. Pure opinion with no discussion of fact or impartial search for truth). ESPN, the worst offender in the sports world, has conditioned everyone to believe that every broadcaster should have an opinion and just yell it louder when someone disagrees with him or her.

Enough is enough. On a baseball radio broadcast, I'd rather hear about the game, the players, the plays, the ins, the outs, the tricks, the techniques and the obersvations than the personal opinions and philosophies of one guy blessed to have a microphone in front of him.

But, thats just me.

paulrichjr
06-13-2007, 04:18 PM
The beautiful thing is that Marty just stubbed his toe and had to apologize for a bad analogy like old leatherpants and his 9/11 remarks in relation to the almost strike back in '03 or '04. Birds of a feather and all :evil:

This one person in New Mexico is probably the only person listening who actually knew what in the world he was talking about. Many probably thought he was talking about a track relay. I know I had never heard of this before, and I are a colage graduwit (from tOSU no less)

I highly recommend the book "Ghost Soldiers" for you to read. It is one of the best books I have ever read and I usually don't like war books. It will give you a much better idea what it was all about and tell you a story about one of the most exciting rescue missions in our history. The story should be a movie but most people would believe it to be a story instead of a "true" story.

15fan
06-13-2007, 04:19 PM
Lollipop & M2:

:clap:

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 04:23 PM
The joy of being a Reds fan...you want opinionless, "rah rah" baseball regardless the state of the team, basically your nightly play by play, game for game, very little, if any opinion (unless it's something good to say)....you have George

You want edge, emotion, and feeling from a broadcaster who thinks like a fan and says what he really feels, and shows his passion for the team - much like we do on here, game to game, pitch to pitch, situation to situation....whether you agree or not with his thoughts...you have Marty.


I'll take Marty any day of the week, and twice during double headers. Always have, always will.

gonelong
06-13-2007, 04:30 PM
I agree 100% that he didn't "have to" applogize, he realized that it bothered some folks, he appologized, and that, as they say, is that.

I have no issue with that. I think Marty is a decent human being at heart.


I guess I don't understand why people take issue with him pointing out this road trip is going to be a very difficult one for the club. Should he lie? Say nothing at all? Pretend it isn't hapening?

I think if he had phrased it like that nobody would have even noticed.


I know some folks would like Marty to be more of a "marketing tool" for lack of a better term.

I don't think its splitting hairs to note (as I have in the past, several times) that I believe most of the people you put in that category would be plenty fine with Marty simply not being an anti-marketing tool.

Maybe I'll start a poll later so we can get a measurement of this.

GL

M2
06-13-2007, 04:33 PM
The joy of being a Reds fan...you want opinionless, boring, "rah rah" baseball regardless the state of the team, basically your nightly play by play, game for game, very little, if any criticism for bone headedness....you have George

You want edge, emotion, and feeling from a broadcaster who thinks like a fan and says what he really feels, and shows his passion for the team - much like we do on here, game to game, pitch to pitch, situation to situation....whether you agree or not with his thoughts...you have Marty.

And if you want something insightful, informational and engaging along the lines of a Jon Miller or Charlie Steiner, you're out of luck. Mind you, I'm spoiled by Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy on Red Sox TV broadcasts.

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 04:34 PM
And if you want something insightful, informational and engaging along the lines of a Jon Miller or Charlie Steiner, you're out of luck. Mind you, I'm spoiled by Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy on Red Sox TV broadcasts.

Jeff seems very informative, and non-controversial...just states his observations...

I like what he adds, at least to the radio side...I don't listen to the TV side. I would guess it's similar.

gonelong
06-13-2007, 04:39 PM
EDIT: Never mind. I guess you all know what I think about the whole situation by now anyways so I am just going to shut my pie-hole for today. :)

GL

Ltlabner
06-13-2007, 04:46 PM
Yep. I sometimes think that if folks who hadn't heard anyone but Marty got the chance to listen to other broadcasters, they'd think differently about our very own Hall of Famer.

Actually no. I've made a point to listen to other broadcasters via mlb.radio and mlb.tv because of this very topic. Most are horrable at even providing the basic PBP information. If they express anything romotley close to an opinion it's usually either a homer comment or something that any 5th grader already knew (ie, in MLB if you throw stikes you get people out!....geee really? I had no idea strikes were the key to sucess).

And I can't count how many times durring spring training and during the games people comment XYZ broad cast team is horrable. So to make the case that Marty is the worst broadcaster on the planet and every other team is heads and shoulders above him is specious at best.

Marty has warts. Yep. I also find him entertaining. I don't consider him a source for anything other than what is happening on the field. You don't care for him, turn the dial and move along. Don't try to sell me that he's a monster because you don't find him entertaining.

Chip R
06-13-2007, 04:48 PM
He's just telling it like it is.


You just kind of wear that like a badge of honor, don't you? ;)

Matt700wlw
06-13-2007, 04:56 PM
Seems to me if Marty says something everybody agrees with, he's correct, and knows what he's talking about...as soon as he says something that people disagree with, he's bitter, full of himself, arrogant, and doesn't know what he's talking about. Same with hosts and writers

That's the nature of the business.

Sad really. What is the fun of debating sports if nobody is allowed to have an opinion?

GAC
06-13-2007, 04:57 PM
I'll give him credit. He screwed up and apologized. If more people would do that when they screwed up there wouldn't be so many big deals made when people say dumb things.

The thing is though.... if Jay Leno or David Letterman had said it in reference to a joke and used a similar analogy - everyone would laugh. If Marty had said watching this team is like watching a train wreck or the Titantic going down, would he have been out of place because of all the people who have lost loved ones in such tragedies?

Maybe Marty should have used a Custer analogy? :lol:

Big Klu
06-13-2007, 05:07 PM
Yep. I sometimes think that if folks who hadn't heard anyone but Marty got the chance to listen to other broadcasters, they'd think differently about our very own Hall of Famer.

Be careful. That sword cuts both ways.

registerthis
06-13-2007, 05:22 PM
It's quite possible he was "strongly encouraged" by his employer to apologize, given that the complaint was made to management, not to Brennaman.

I thought Marty was all-powerful. Now WLW brass can force him to apologize because of one single complaint?

That's impressive.

westofyou
06-13-2007, 05:43 PM
I don't consider him a source for anything other than what is happening on the field.

When he starts doing that again let me know, I find it hard to follow anything when Marty calls it, at least anything on the field.

Blimpie
06-13-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm not surprised at all. Marty is a lightning rod for discussion on this board.The first thread I ever started on this board was concerning a comment that Marty made about Barry Larkin (which I managed to capture on video tape) to a fan sitting next to me at a Reds Caravan several years ago. I believe that thread had nearly 200 posts within 24 hours.

That day, I observed a quality about about RedsZone that has not wavered one iota since: There simply are no "gray" opinions about Marty Brennaman by members of this board.

Blimpie
06-13-2007, 05:47 PM
And if you want something insightful, informational and engaging along the lines of a Jon Miller or Charlie Steiner, you're out of luck. Mind you, I'm spoiled by Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy on Red Sox TV broadcasts.The pride of Fall River?!? :beerme:

sonny
06-13-2007, 05:49 PM
Seems to me if Marty says something everybody agrees with, he's correct, and knows what he's talking about...as soon as he says something that people disagree with, he's bitter, full of himself, arrogant, and doesn't know what he's talking about. Same with hosts and writers

That's the nature of the business.

Sad really. What is the fun of debating sports if nobody is allowed to have an opinion?

Agreed.

Ltlabner
06-13-2007, 05:51 PM
Hey look over there!

Dunn suxx because he strikes out too much!

:evil:

GAC
06-13-2007, 06:09 PM
I've always liked Marty and Joe BECAUSE they are not afraid to open their mouths and criticize some aspect of this organization (not like some Cub announcers I use to know). They, at times, call it as they see it. And they've gotten in trouble with the MLB brass at times in the past.

Now the fact that people/fans disagree with some of the stuff they may say is fine. No one denies that Marty has an ego and at times loves to hear himself talk. But I certainly don't want his "voice" suppressed just because some fans don't seem to agree with what he says. You can't (aren't) gonna please everyone.

But overall I like Marty.

Always Red
06-13-2007, 06:22 PM
PC.

My only problem with Marty is that, with as much baseball as he has seen (way more than me) he doesn't understand the game better than he does.

I have a confession. I have also used the term "Bataan Death March" when referring to really odorous tasks that I need to undertake.

So.....like Marty, I also profusely apologize to all involved, and those offended by my past use of "The Bataan Death March." Obviously, I was not on the Battan Death March. It's a metaphor (at least I think that's what it's called?). And it happened long enough ago that it's fallen into the realm of the history and culture and humor, even.

I am also a history fanatic, and I love our country. I fully realize what happened on the March, and what it meant to our country in the Pacific Theater during WW2.

KronoRed
06-13-2007, 07:03 PM
Hey look over there!

Dunn suxx because he strikes out too much!

:evil:

Not a run producer ;)

StillFunkyB
06-13-2007, 07:14 PM
I agree with the mountain out of a molehill description.

Marty simply had a "foot in mouth" moment.

Ron Madden
06-14-2007, 03:55 AM
I won't disagree with that....

I'll be honest, I didn't even remember him saying that when he brought it up last night.

I believe you Matt. If you would have heard it you would have repeated it in the game thread. ;) :mooner:

Ron Madden
06-14-2007, 04:07 AM
The beautiful thing is that Marty just stubbed his toe and had to apologize for a bad analogy like old leatherpants and his 9/11 remarks in relation to the almost strike back in '03 or '04. Birds of a feather and all

IIRC. Marty blasted and condemned Bowden for those 9/11 remarks over the air on more than one occasion. (Judge not least ye be judged and all that)

I'm sure Marty meant no harm but what's good for the goose....

Ron Madden
06-14-2007, 04:16 AM
You don't get it. He didn't have to apologize at all. He could have done nothing or he could have crabbed about the PC police but he didn't. I don't always agree with what he says on air but I respect him for apologizing straight away for saying something someone took offense to when he didn't have to.


I agree Chip, What Marty said did'nt offend me but I'm glad he apologized, and I respect him for doing so.

Ron Madden
06-14-2007, 04:38 AM
Sad really. What is the fun of debating sports if nobody is allowed to have an opinion?

Bingo.

The point is we don't always have to agree with Marty. It is not against the law or a sin to disagree with Marty's opinion or to think for ourselves.

Ron Madden
06-14-2007, 04:51 AM
I don't know of anyone who wants to strip Marty of his freedom of speech.

There sure seems to be plenty of folks who believe the rest of us have no right to question Marty's opinion.

Ltlabner
06-14-2007, 07:22 AM
The point is we don't always have to agree with Marty. It is not against the law or a sin to disagree with Marty's opinion or to think for ourselves.


There sure seems to be plenty of folks who believe the rest of us have no right to question Marty's opinion.

Ok, promised myself I'd back away from this one, but after reading this had to jump into the water again.

This is where the entire "Marty" debate falls apart IMO. Just as no one has tried to deny Marty's ability to say what he thinks, zero people on this thread have stated that you are not allowed to question Marty or it's a "sin" to disagree with him. Zero. Zip. Nada. Hasn't been said. Red herring. Strawman. Call it what you will.

In fact, many game threads there's a comment or two that snipe at Marty. That is "questioning his opinion". Yet every game thread does not turn into a 6 page Marty fest. How many regular threads contain a snipe at Marty? There's been a lot latley with the discussions of Dunn/Hopper. Yet, again, not every one turns into a Marty fest. Seems to me there's plenty of "questioning Marty's opinion" that goes unchallened, unresponded to, etc. (which is fine, I'm not saying that's a problem, just pointing out the falicy of the "you always have to agree/can never dissagree with Marty tripe). Redszone is a haven for those who question, dispute and dissagree with Marty. With the exception of the quarterly Marty thread these comments are largely said unfettered with response or an attempt to "shut them down".

And no one has ever, to my knowledge, stated you always have to agree with him. He's wrong about Steve Finley, he's wrong about strike outs, he's wrong about PTGTRW, he's wrong about Hopper over Dunn. It is possible to enjoy "Marty the broadcaster", while disagreeing with "Marty the baseball guy".

It's when people start down the "he's a bitter, nasty, evil, mindcontrolling, son-of-a-you-know-what" stuff that bugs me. Say that about Billy Beane. Say that about Bill James. See how far that gets you. And yet this stuff about Marty gets said over and over and over and over and over.

You don't like Marty's PBP, negativity or style. Fine, turn off the radio (and many here have in search of a broadcast that fits more in line with their views). Quit spending so much time trying to conivence me that somehow I'm wrong for enjoying his broadcasts and he's the anti-christ.

BTW - It was very refreshing to read from people who are on record as not being a fan of Marty and saying they appluad/recognize his applogy.

westofyou
06-14-2007, 09:45 AM
Say that about Billy Beane. Say that about Bill James. See how far that gets you. And yet this stuff about Marty gets said over and over and over and over and over.

Bill James is an odd cuss and Billy Beane an arrogant one, whoop dee dooo.... neither of them have been a part of most peoples lives on Red Zone, unlike Marty who is constantly there during baseball season and always quick with his opinion.

As for the other two guys I like the positioning there... from what I surmise you're saying folks will slam Marty but won't let James or Beane be equally judged. I don't see it, but I see that you're trying to say that stats guys are hypocritical.

Which I don't see at all, I just see a bunch of folks who have a problem with the "Voice of the Reds" and all the baggage that brings along with it.

westofyou
06-14-2007, 10:12 AM
Some comments here on the issue at the Baseball Think Factory Newsfeeder.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/ap_marty_brennaman_apologizes_for_bataan_remark/


Any way we could get him to apologize for regularly going 5 minutes at a time without actually mentioning the game he's supposed to be broadcasting?

Yeesh.


As someone who tunes into Reds games via MLB Audio, Marty says a number of things that could/would be construed by a fair number of folks. But working for WLW in Cincy which plays the Star-Bangled Banner on the hour at noon (and I think also at 6 a.m. if relatives are correct) and does various and sundry things to wrap themselves in the flag demands that should even one person voice a complaint on something that could be considered insulting to veterans and the world there turns upside down.

I am a veteran, and I find and have always found Marty's very being, nay existence, to be somewhat offensive. But I doubt MY e-mail would elicit an apology.


When will he apologize for Thom? (Not that Thom's forgivable.)

15fan
06-14-2007, 11:43 AM
I've often thought that listening to Marty for 9 innings is kind of like a forced march.

Ltlabner
06-14-2007, 01:18 PM
As for the other two guys I like the positioning there... from what I surmise you're saying folks will slam Marty but won't let James or Beane be equally judged. I don't see it, but I see that you're trying to say that stats guys are hypocritical.

New poster comes on and slams Beene.

Next new poster comes on and slams Marty.

Which one gets the sly wink and a nod from the group at large? Which poster gets an instant reponce, plenty of rolling eyes emoticons and generally is not approved of by the group at large?

Has nothing to do with "stats" or not. Plenty of non-stats folks here are not big fans of Marty.

westofyou
06-14-2007, 01:20 PM
Which one gets the sly wink and a nod from the group at large?

Beats me, I thought the board was pretty diverse in their opinions on both guys, I don't care to count who's who, and what side they straddle on in either issue.

But then again I think both of them are a tad whack.

pedro
06-14-2007, 01:23 PM
New poster comes on and slams Beene.

Next new poster comes on and slams Marty.

Which one gets the sly wink and a nod from the group at large? Which poster gets an instant reponce, plenty of rolling eyes emoticons and generally is not approved of by the group at large?

Has nothing to do with "stats" or not. Plenty of non-stats folks here are not big fans of Marty.


The ironic thing is that the person slamming Beane probably picked up their ignorance from listening to Marty.

Personally I think that Marty deserves what he gets for the most part although I don't think this particular instance is any big deal. Marty certainly didn't set out to offend anyone with the "death march" comment.

Ltlabner
06-14-2007, 01:24 PM
Beats me, I thought the board was pretty diverse in their opinions on both guys, I don't care to count who's who, and what side they straddle on in either issue.

But then again I think both of them are a tad whack.

It's only my opinion, but it seems like there's a few vocal Marty supporters, myself, Matt700wlw and the ocasional other. The non-fans of Marty list is much, much larger.

But I tell you what. You get bonus points for using the phrase "tad whack". That got a genuine chuckle.

Ltlabner
06-14-2007, 01:30 PM
The ironic thing is that the person slamming Beane probably picked up their ignorance from listening to Marty.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Sorry Pedro, not trying to be agressive, but your statement is a prime example of the stuff that drives me nuts

Does Marty continue to espouse some "old school" (for lack of a better term) ideas...of course. I've never said otherwise. But let's not pretend that he is the sole sorce of missinformation on the planet. Millions of kids going through little league, millions of people take part in water cooler discussions at the office and millions of viewers of most ESPN baseball shows are also subject to the same misinformation. People have read millions and millions of baseball articles in the newspapers in other parts of the country and have expoused the same ideas.

To say that someone would diss on Beane "probably" because of Marty is laughable. To do so assumes they knew nothing about baseball prior to accidently finding 700wlw and learned everything from the Poofy Haired One and have never had a baseball thought implanted in their head other than from what they hear on the radio. Not likely at all.

pedro
06-14-2007, 01:38 PM
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Sorry Pedro, not trying to be agressive, but your statement is a prime example of the stuff that drives me nuts

Does Marty continue to espouse some "old school" (for lack of a better term) ideas...of course. I've never said otherwise. But let's not pretend that he is the sole sorce of missinformation on the planet. Millions of kids going through little league, millions of people take part in water cooler discussions at the office and millions of viewers of most ESPN baseball shows are also subject to the same misinformation. People have read millions and millions of baseball articles in the newspapers in other parts of the country and have expoused the same ideas.

To say that someone would diss on Beane "probably" because of Marty is laughable. To do so assumes they knew nothing about baseball prior to accidently finding 700wlw and learned everything from the Poofy Haired One. Not likely at all.


When people on RZ rip on Billy Beane it is generally based on misinformation from one of two sources who can't seem to shut up a subject they know absolutely nothing about (The book Moneyball). Those two sources are Marty Brennaman and Joe Morgan. Never once have I heard a person who has actually read the book use it to disparage Billy Beane.

Who else does the casual Reds fan get their information on the subject from? I watch a hell of a lot of baseball and read about it even more and those are the only two guys I can think of who seem so compelled to mischaracterize a book they've never read.

Ltlabner
06-14-2007, 01:39 PM
When people on RZ rip on Billy Beane it is generally based on misinformation from one of two sources who can't seem to shut up a subject they know absolutely nothing about (The book Moneyball). Those two sources are Marty Brennaman and Joe Morgan. Never once have I heard a person who has actually read the book use it to disparage Billy Beane.

Who else does the casual Reds fan get their information on the subject from? I watch a hell of a lot of baseball and read about it even more and those are the only two guys I can think of who seem so compelled to mischaracterize a book they've never read.

I'm talking about baseball info/thinking in general. If you are talking specifically about dissing Moneyball I tend to agree with you. But just talking about baseball info in general there are many more sources for misinformation than soley Marty.

pedro
06-14-2007, 01:40 PM
And I stand by the fact anybody talking **** about a book they've never read is spreading ignorance. end of story.

Ltlabner
06-14-2007, 01:42 PM
And I stand by the fact anybody talking **** about a book they've never read is spreading ignorance. end of story.

No argument from me there.

pedro
06-14-2007, 01:42 PM
I'm talking about baseball info/thinking in general. If you are talking specifically about dissing Moneyball I tend to agree with you. But just talking about baseball info in general there are many more sources for misinformation than soley Marty.

certainly. a lot of people think the way they were taught to play in little league is the way that major leaguers should play too.

Either way, Marty is hardly the only announcer to spread misinformation.

westofyou
06-14-2007, 02:04 PM
And I stand by the fact anybody talking **** about a book they've never read is spreading ignorance. end of story.

OTOH, what's the "average reds fan" know and feel about Tony LaRussa and Buck Showalter?

I know what my answer is.

creek14
06-14-2007, 04:38 PM
Holy moly, what's wrong with apologizing? Heck, I've apologized a million times for things that probably didn't warrant one. Somehow I've managed to survive.

The world is a cruel, ugly place. Believe me, I see, hear, and read about it every day at work.

A little civility is a rare thing these days. I'm glad Marty apologized. I heard it and he sounded sincere. Good for him for thinking of others.

Swallow some pride sometime. It doesn’t taste all that bad. Really.

registerthis
06-14-2007, 05:35 PM
Holy moly, what's wrong with apologizing?

A lot, apparently.

Funny thing is, it seems that most people didn't even hear the original quote--or, at least, it flew right by them. So if Marty had never apologized for it, we likely wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Yet, here we are.

WVPacman
06-14-2007, 06:41 PM
I got to listen to the reds for the first time in a long time on the radio and Marty was'nt doing the game.Where was he??

membengal
06-14-2007, 06:56 PM
Walking to Oakland. It's a Bataan Death March homage...

traderumor
06-14-2007, 07:01 PM
Holy moly, what's wrong with apologizing? Heck, I've apologized a million times for things that probably didn't warrant one. Somehow I've managed to survive.

The world is a cruel, ugly place. Believe me, I see, hear, and read about it every day at work.

A little civility is a rare thing these days. I'm glad Marty apologized. I heard it and he sounded sincere. Good for him for thinking of others.

Swallow some pride sometime. It doesn’t taste all that bad. Really.

I think it is more due to the trend toward demanding an apology everytime some media type puts his foot in his mouth. Here, the story is one person was offended, so he is called on the carpet to apologize. At least that is why I roll my eyes at this whole sorted affair.

vaticanplum
06-14-2007, 08:41 PM
I think it is more due to the trend toward demanding an apology everytime some media type puts his foot in his mouth. Here, the story is one person was offended, so he is called on the carpet to apologize. At least that is why I roll my eyes at this whole sorted affair.

You know, it is possible that he actually meant what he said.

REDREAD
06-14-2007, 09:33 PM
I'll give him credit. He screwed up and apologized. If more people would do that when they screwed up there wouldn't be so many big deals made when people say dumb things.

I'm willing to bet that Cast or someone forced him to apologize.

Marty is a bitter, closed minded old grump. He has no qualms about badmouthing people that he has a personal grudge against, even if it is baseless. When he takes every opportunity to berate people like LaRussa, ShowWalter, Bowden, etc over stuff that happened YEARS ago, it shows what a small person he really is.

The worst thing about Tom B coming over is that we are probably stuck with Marty until he dies. Without Tom, there was a chance that Marty might've realized that he no longer enjoys the job and he might've retired in the next few years.

Did anyone else catch it last week when Marty said there was "no question" that the Reds were a better team with Hopper in the lineup instead of Dunn, and that the only reason Dunn gets playing time is because of his salary? :laugh: