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View Full Version : Seeing Adam Dunn the past few games...



Reds1
06-17-2007, 05:37 PM
Really makes me wonder if he could hit like this more how he would be the best player in the game. He is so frustrating at times, but he has these streaks that you just can't wait for him to hit. Todays game in a nut shell is the Reds season. You have Adam who has been in slumps just on fire and the defense and starting pitching now going south. I still believe this team is much better, but I just had to comment on Dunn. He gets such a bad rap around here (me included sometimes), but right now he is fun to watch and he also made some nice place and had a nice throw at the plate today. Maybe we should keep Adam and Griffey in this line up and not trade him away. Bruce is still not ready and Freel and Hopper don't excite me fulltime.

I'm sorry. I know there are tons of these posts, but I just wanted to be positive on Adam!

Happy Fathers Day.
David

The_jbh
06-17-2007, 06:42 PM
I personally think that Adam needs a manager that will kick him in his fat butt. This team needs to play with some fire and Jerry Narron just doesn't ignite his players

Spitball
06-17-2007, 09:06 PM
If Dunn stays hot, the Reds might get a decent return in a trade. However, if Dunn stays hot, the fan base will not want the Reds to trade him.

Aronchis
06-17-2007, 10:11 PM
Seeing Adam Dunn the last few games showed me Texas did a bad job scouting for him.

flyer85
06-17-2007, 10:13 PM
Seeing Adam Dunn the last few games showed me Texas did a bad job scouting for him.scouting has nothing to do with it. Leaving pitches out over the plate does. Bad pitchers make bad pitches, same reason the Reds get lit up.

Aronchis
06-17-2007, 10:16 PM
scouting has nothing to do with it. Leaving pitches out over the plate does. Bad pitchers make bad pitches, same reason the Reds get lit up.

If the properly scouted for Dunn, they would have consistantly peeled the corners as the book on Dunn is written, most likely leading to Dunn chasing after bad pitches on the outside leading to a strikeout or walking then people complaining why he doesn't take the bat off his shoulder;).

flyer85
06-17-2007, 10:18 PM
If the properly scouted for Dunn, they would have consistantly peeled the corners as the book on Dunn is written, most likely leading to Dunn chasing after bad pitches on the outside leading to a strikeout or walking then people complaining why he doesn't take the bat off his shoulder;).Dunn generally only chases after getting behind. The Rangers pitchers were rarely in that situation.

jojo
06-17-2007, 11:16 PM
If the properly scouted for Dunn, they would have consistantly peeled the corners as the book on Dunn is written, most likely leading to Dunn chasing after bad pitches on the outside leading to a strikeout or walking then people complaining why he doesn't take the bat off his shoulder;).

Trying to paint the corner and actually doing it are two different things. Here's the rotation (pitcher-ERA) that the Rangers ran out against the Reds:

Padilla 6.47
Wright 10.67
Millwood 7.42

WVPacman
06-18-2007, 12:28 AM
Really makes me wonder if he could hit like this more how he would be the best player in the game. He is so frustrating at times, but he has these streaks that you just can't wait for him to hit. Todays game in a nut shell is the Reds season. You have Adam who has been in slumps just on fire and the defense and starting pitching now going south. I still believe this team is much better, but I just had to comment on Dunn. He gets such a bad rap around here (me included sometimes), but right now he is fun to watch and he also made some nice place and had a nice throw at the plate today. Maybe we should keep Adam and Griffey in this line up and not trade him away. Bruce is still not ready and Freel and Hopper don't excite me fulltime.

I'm sorry. I know there are tons of these posts, but I just wanted to be positive on Adam!

Happy Fathers Day.
David



This is exactly why I said he should/nt be traded!! Dunn,has all the patintial in the world but he is still young and learning.Think about this situation... Dunn,has put up 40 plus homers and 100 plus rbis since he has been a red and he is STILL LEARNING.When he learns all the funtimentals and hits the ball like he has been doing the last few games people he will be a beast.The reds need his bat in the lineup b/c the reds need all the offense they can get these days and for the future.

The main thing that im trying to say is the guy is still learning and as you seen today he is getting better and better.The reds have to keep all their young players to build around and build a team that is capable of contending year in and year out.Like I said the other night to keep trading young players away like Dunn will do nothing but hold the reds from ever building a contending team and we will stay a terrible team for years and years to come and that is'nt right.

Reds1
06-18-2007, 01:12 AM
I really have to agree with you WV. From what I"m hearing the reds are asking the moon. If we got a top pitcher and a prospect and another position player which is some of the rumor I hear is one thing, but probably not realistic. If we can afford him and still add to what we have Dunn is a piece I think needs to be here. Griffey won't be here forever and Hamilton is going to be a good player, but who knows truly if he'll be a star. 40HRs and 100 RBI guys are not growing on trees and Dunn can hit 45 HRS and get 115 RBIs I believe consistantly. This is if he ever totally gets it. I know he gets dogged for defense, but he has improved there and his size allows him to get some of the high rips. His arm is above ave too. He was a pitcher. Consistancy is his big thing, but he seems motivated this year and I will take this version of Adam Dunn. I Hope you are right. thanks

TOBTTReds
06-18-2007, 01:37 AM
If the properly scouted for Dunn, they would have consistantly peeled the corners as the book on Dunn is written, most likely leading to Dunn chasing after bad pitches on the outside leading to a strikeout or walking then people complaining why he doesn't take the bat off his shoulder;).

Oh...so the Rangers meant to throw the ball right down the middle?

As far as Dunn goes...he's streaky for sure. This might last another solid week. I trade him by weeks end when GM's start to salivate.

bucksfan2
06-18-2007, 09:41 AM
No matter what Dunn does some people just cant give the guy props. He destroyed the ball in the Texas series. I dont care if they left the ball over the plate, missed the spots or even tipped their pitches you still need to hit the ball. There are just some spots where Dunn gets locked in and becomes maybe the most dangerous player in baseball. I was at opening day when he terrorized Zambrano all day. It actually seems like the reds have found a nice 3-4-5 punch with Griffey, Dunn, and EE. I am always amazed that Narron will move Dunn to 6th and protect him with Ross/Castro/Moeller.

IslandRed
06-18-2007, 11:13 AM
This is exactly why I said he should/nt be traded!! Dunn,has all the patintial in the world but he is still young and learning.Think about this situation... Dunn,has put up 40 plus homers and 100 plus rbis since he has been a red and he is STILL LEARNING.

With the disclaimer that not everyone's career path follows the norm, Dunn is 27 years old. Most players peak at 27 or 28, the point at which the accumulated learning best meshes with peak physical ability. That's the normal player. There are two red flags where Dunn is concerned: (1) He has an old-player body and old-player skills, and those guys typically decline faster than the norm. (2) He hasn't been building up to his peak, but rather peaked at 24 (so far) and has been ever-so-slightly tailing off each year since. Furthermore, he's not the same hitter he was as a phenom tearing up the minor leagues. He used to hit for average, he used to mash the ball to all fields. He always whiffed a lot, sure, but he wasn't a Three True Outcomes caricature.

Now, I totally agree that the 40/100 he's been putting up has a lot of value and it can't be easily replaced. We just have to face the probabilities: that he's about as good as he's going to be, that he's about to cost a lot of money, and there's a good chance a big-money contract extension longer than maybe 2-3 years will turn into an albatross. That doesn't necessarily have to make him an ex-Red, but we have to be smart about it.

Reds1
06-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Now, I totally agree that the 40/100 he's been putting up has a lot of value and it can't be easily replaced. We just have to face the probabilities: that he's about as good as he's going to be, that he's about to cost a lot of money, and there's a good chance a big-money contract extension longer than maybe 2-3 years will turn into an albatross. That doesn't necessarily have to make him an ex-Red, but we have to be smart about it.

The more I read about Dunn the more I don't want to trade him. LOL. A few weeks ago I was just in the mindset don't pay him and get something out of him, but the more I think of it we can pay him and use our money to get another player or two and if Homer, Votto, et al are what people think and these young pen guys get it - maybe we can compete with what we have, but trading Dunn fills a pretty big void in the middle of the line up. Can he play 1B? Hell, put Votto in LF and Dunn at 1B. I don't know the answer, but I hear other teams want him want to play him there so why can't we. A guess the idea of a trade is exciting for what can be, but I can't take another Kearns/Lopez for nothing deal. That's what scares the hell out of me.

Kc61
06-18-2007, 03:48 PM
By the time the Reds are competitive, Dunn will be 30, will have earned another $50 million, and who knows how his skills will have developed?

The Reds need to rebuild completely. That means changing the team materially. That means being willing to part with its current "core" to have a different team with different players.

Given Dunn's high salary, impending free agency (after this or next year), his skill set, and his value -- which few current Reds have -- the handwriting is on the wall.

The current team doesn't need a mere patch job. It needs to be almost completely re-formed. This requires major change, even if you have to let go of good players. It requires young talent and payroll flexibility.

Reds1
06-18-2007, 05:08 PM
By the time the Reds are competitive, Dunn will be 30, will have earned another $50 million, and who knows how his skills will have developed?

The Reds need to rebuild completely. That means changing the team materially. That means being willing to part with its current "core" to have a different team with different players.

Given Dunn's high salary, impending free agency (after this or next year), his skill set, and his value -- which few current Reds have -- the handwriting is on the wall.

The current team doesn't need a mere patch job. It needs to be almost completely re-formed. This requires major change, even if you have to let go of good players. It requires young talent and payroll flexibility.

Well, I guess if you want to throw in the towl the next couple years, but I say strike now hile the division is down. Who's to say we can't compete and have a shot to win this division. I repectfully disagree! :)

Kc61
06-18-2007, 05:19 PM
Well, I guess if you want to throw in the towl the next couple years, but I say strike now hile the division is down. Who's to say we can't compete and have a shot to win this division. I repectfully disagree! :)

Well, if you want to strike now, you have quite a job ahead of you. The team has almost the worst record in baseball and needs a quick, massive infusion of talent to succeed short term. This means several new, top tier, major league arms. It means a centerfielder who can cover ground. It means right handed hitting. It probably means an upgrade at catcher.

This will cost money. Lots of it. And fast. I just don't see it happening. I see a longer-term plan involving a lot of youth.

Even if the division were achievable in the next couple of years, is that what you want? A team good enough to compete in the worst division in baseball -- while it is down? I would rather see them build a solid contender which can compete with all MLB teams.

M2
06-18-2007, 08:17 PM
Well, I guess if you want to throw in the towl the next couple years, but I say strike now hile the division is down. Who's to say we can't compete and have a shot to win this division. I repectfully disagree!

Well, allowing for the reality that this year's boat has sailed, you're right that the club could pursue a reload strategy rather than a rebuild strategy.

Dunn's still a bit dicey in that strategem though because I imagine he'd be wary of re-signing with the Reds. He's got the opportunity to make a ton of money, live in a completely different area of the country and perhaps play for a winning team.

Unless the Reds put together a compelling team in 2008, I find it hard to believe the Big Donkey won't be interested in seeking more fertile pastures elsewhere.

So there's the question of whether Dunn fits into the reload plan if you're aiming beyond 2008.

Yet he'd make the proposition a lot easier if he stuck around. He's durable and he's a big stick in the middle of the lineup. As has been mentioned by others in other threads, Jr.'s a lot less reliable so he probably ought to be the first guy on the trading block. Plus, do the Braves have a single good reason not to make a deal for Jr.?

Anyway, if the team goes the reload route, it's going to have to be willing to spend more money (this time wisely) and it's going to have to be willing to trade prospects for players (this may mean Homer Bailey or Joey Votto if they don't rapidly adapt to the majors).

It's an option. Yet, like the rebuild option, the club can't do it half-assed. It's got to pick a plan of action and commit 100%.

Reds1
06-18-2007, 09:42 PM
I agree with you M2. Eitherway they have to do it. Dunn is for sure in the middle because he's a guy you can bulld around, but he's also a guy who could bring some young talent at the same time save the Reds some money. However we will be getting out from under the Milton contract. I also agree even though I don't want him to leave that Jr. makes the most sense just because of age and the fact he's playing so well it has increased his value. I struggle as I'm a fan of the players they have and I want to win with them. LOL

later

mth123
06-18-2007, 10:46 PM
Well, allowing for the reality that this year's boat has sailed, you're right that the club could pursue a reload strategy rather than a rebuild strategy.

Dunn's still a bit dicey in that strategem though because I imagine he'd be wary of re-signing with the Reds. He's got the opportunity to make a ton of money, live in a completely different area of the country and perhaps play for a winning team.

Unless the Reds put together a compelling team in 2008, I find it hard to believe the Big Donkey won't be interested in seeking more fertile pastures elsewhere.

So there's the question of whether Dunn fits into the reload plan if you're aiming beyond 2008.

Yet he'd make the proposition a lot easier if he stuck around. He's durable and he's a big stick in the middle of the lineup. As has been mentioned by others in other threads, Jr.'s a lot less reliable so he probably ought to be the first guy on the trading block. Plus, do the Braves have a single good reason not to make a deal for Jr.?

Anyway, if the team goes the reload route, it's going to have to be willing to spend more money (this time wisely) and it's going to have to be willing to trade prospects for players (this may mean Homer Bailey or Joey Votto if they don't rapidly adapt to the majors).

It's an option. Yet, like the rebuild option, the club can't do it half-assed. It's got to pick a plan of action and commit 100%.

I'm for the reload plan and your right about Dunn potentally bolting. That is why I keep saying you have to trade him (which I'm against unless its a no brainer) or lock him up. Invoking the option accomplishes little because I think 2009 is the time.

This team has a lot of payroll flexability IMO. Lohse, Griffey and Weathers should all bring something decent on return. Hatte could get an arm for the mix and even Conine and Stanton might bring a lower level arm. Fill-in for Griffey with a Freel/Hopper etc mix until Bruce is ready. Get BP arms in trade to solidify the back end a little and pick the best of the youngsters (who are cheap) to fill it out. Back-fill Hatte with Votto and use the money to sign an impact player. Preferably a #2 caliber starter.

If this team does nothing but let the expiring contracts walk (Milton, Lohse, Saarloos, Larue, Conine, Paul Wilson, etc), invoke Dunn's option, pay the raises to Arroyo, Harang, Gonzalez etc, it still has $8 Million to spend this year to get back to 2007 level. Subtract Griffey, Hatte, Stanton, and Weathers and that's another $19 or $20 Million. Plenty of money to get an impact guy or two. If cheap options at SS and C are acquired then more money can be free'd up by dealing Gonzalez and Ross. If that isn't enough when so many cheap players are coming together, another 13 to 15 Million from Dunn's salary isn't going to matter IMO.

You don't accomplish anything by cutting production to save money. You accomplish something by cutting dead wood or replacing higher cost vets with lower cost young guys who project to similar production. Nobody in this system can realistically be projected to replace 40, 100, 100 with a .900 OPS. Jay Bruce, Joey Votto or Josh Hamilton may do it, but projecting what Dunn has made his career norm on an unproven player as a career year is a fairly lofty expectation IMO. Young production that will be in its prime when the younger guys start to jell in 2009 or so is exactly what the team will be seeking in a rebuild. Seems like that is exactly what Dunn will be.