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MWM
06-24-2006, 10:05 AM
The big question is will my dish guy be finished installing my system in the next hour so I can watch Germany - Sweeden. That's going to be a great one. I hate moving.

WMR
06-24-2006, 10:58 AM
Prediction: Germany 3 Sweden 1

paintmered
06-24-2006, 11:06 AM
Is the Germany/Sweeden game being televised?

WMR
06-24-2006, 11:07 AM
Yup it's on ABC

WMR
06-24-2006, 11:08 AM
Podolski strikes in the 4th minute: Germany 1 Sweden 0

WMR
06-24-2006, 11:12 AM
Podolski strikes again!! 12th minute: Germany 2 Sweden 0

WMR
06-24-2006, 11:36 AM
Wow... what a horrible call. Swedish player given a SECOND YELLOW for a hold. Wow. A ref should never give a 2nd yellow in a situation like that, jeez, not to mention a Round of 16 World Cup match. Sheesh.

oneupper
06-24-2006, 12:05 PM
Wow... what a horrible call. Swedish player given a SECOND YELLOW for a hold. Wow. A ref should never give a 2nd yellow in a situation like that, jeez, not to mention a Round of 16 World Cup match. Sheesh.

Yep. If the game wasn't dead already, the ref just killed it.

WMR
06-24-2006, 12:57 PM
Final: Germany 2 - Sweden 0

Sweden missed a PK on another questionable call. Probably a make-up call for the sending off. Sweden unable to take advantage.

Outshined_One
06-24-2006, 03:43 PM
Mexico-Argentina has been thoroughly entertaining so far, imo.

It's more fun to watch it on Univision, by the way. :D

reds1869
06-24-2006, 04:34 PM
Was anyone else annoyed by the fact that the announcers in the Germany game kept referring to their upcoming mtch with Argentina? For a network that broadcasts in a nation with millions of Mexican immigrants that's pretty unwise.

WMR
06-24-2006, 04:59 PM
Can we please hear that Messi is 19 for the the 1,000th time? 999 just isn't enough.

Reds Fanatic
06-25-2006, 04:38 PM
This Portugal-Netherlands game is unbelievable. Referee has lost complete control of the game. They are about to set the all time World Cup record for yellow cards already at 15 yellow cards. 2 players have been red carded.

westofyou
06-25-2006, 04:39 PM
This Portugal-Netherlands game is unbelievable. Referee has lost complete control of the game. They are about to set the all time World Cup record for yellow cards already at 15 yellow cards. 2 players have been red carded.
It's a melee, it's like EPL in the 80's

M2
06-25-2006, 04:49 PM
The Netherlands totally deserve to lose this game. They seem more interested in flopping than in getting an equalizer.

M2
06-25-2006, 04:50 PM
It's a melee, it's like EPL in the 80's

It's like Chechen rebels are playing the Russian Army.

cincy jacket
06-25-2006, 04:56 PM
Up to three red cards now. This ref makes the one from the US v Italy game look great. Otherwise this has been a fascinating game to watch.

WMR
06-25-2006, 05:04 PM
No Van Nistelroy? At all?

Wow.

Bad move by Van Basten.

Cynical soccer by both sides. Hope England beats them.

Will Sven Goran Ericsson please drop the Bruce Arena 4-5-1? Leaving Rooney alone up top is such a poor tactical decision. Hmmm... Sure could use a Jermain Defoe right about now.

M2
06-25-2006, 05:12 PM
The Red card on Deco is a killer for the Portugese.

cincy jacket
06-25-2006, 05:23 PM
The big question now from this game is whether Christiano Ronaldo will be back in time for the England game. Without him and Deco I do not see how they stand a chance; although England has looked rather average so far.

MWM
06-25-2006, 07:45 PM
The Netherlands totally deserve to lose this game. They seem more interested in flopping than in getting an equalizer.

No kidding. And I like the Dutch, but they were flopping all over the place today.

What an awful game all around, though. Flops all over the place, the ref couldn't tell the difference and lost complete control. The one blatant foul in the box on Robben he completely missed (heck, that one should have been a card and not even a foul was called.

The card where the Dutch guy got his second yellow when Figo was hit in the eye was a pretty bad flop. He was lightly hit in the face, but the replay showed he was fine, then once he saw that he had lost the ball, he all of a sudden grabbed his eye and fell to the ground. It's ridiculous.

The sad thing is, FIFA's whole approach to this cup in directing the refs to be more liberal with the cards actually promotes diving. They need to put a stop to it. Simply allowing for posthumous cards to be given and stiff fines by video replay would curb a lot of it. IMO, it should be priority #1 for FIFA.

Nugget
06-25-2006, 08:12 PM
If any watched the England game that had a realy good refereeing performance. He gave cards for persistent niggle fouls but didn't pull out the card at the first sign of a foul. He was fairly anonymous throughout the game which was good. England, however, showed that they are still not a team and if they run into quality opposition then they could have been in trouble.

It seems that some referees are in the World Cup to show off their talent (or lack thereof) rather than that of the players.

Big game tomorrow morning - biggest upset of the cup so far I predict.

Red Heeler
06-25-2006, 08:35 PM
If any watched the England game that had a realy good refereeing performance. He gave cards for persistent niggle fouls but didn't pull out the card at the first sign of a foul. He was fairly anonymous throughout the game which was good. England, however, showed that they are still not a team and if they run into quality opposition then they could have been in trouble.

It seems that some referees are in the World Cup to show off their talent (or lack thereof) rather than that of the players.

Big game tomorrow morning - biggest upset of the cup so far I predict.

At least the Socceroos will give the Italians something to roll around on the ground about.

Marcelo Balboa was complaining about Beckham the whole game (and previous games). He sounded like Marty talking about Dunn or EE. Then, when Beckham scored on the free kick, Balboa was slobbering all over him.

Earlier in this thread I speculated that Beckham might have worn himself out playing for Real Madrid. He hasn't been anywhere near as active in the World Cup as he was at the end of the Spanish season.

The Dutch/Portugese game was painful to watch. I was expecting an entertaining match between two energetic and technically gifted teams. Eh, not so much. Whither Van Nistelrooy?

I've been watching most of the games on Tivo in the evening while enjoying an adult beverage. I have been trying to choose a brand based in the country of one of the participants. So far Dos Equis and Heineken are gone. Fosters can't be eliminated fast enough. I'm hoping Becks and Newcastle hang around for a while. Spain/France might have to have a good Bordeaux as a substitute. The Brazil/Ghana and Swiss/Ukraine games might be thirsty affairs for a lack of local supply.

Cedric
06-25-2006, 08:50 PM
At least the Socceroos will give the Italians something to roll around on the ground about.

Marcelo Balboa was complaining about Beckham the whole game (and previous games). He sounded like Marty talking about Dunn or EE. Then, when Beckham scored on the free kick, Balboa was slobbering all over him.

Earlier in this thread I speculated that Beckham might have worn himself out playing for Real Madrid. He hasn't been anywhere near as active in the World Cup as he was at the end of the Spanish season.

The Dutch/Portugese game was painful to watch. I was expecting an entertaining match between two energetic and technically gifted teams. Eh, not so much. Whither Van Nistelrooy?

I've been watching most of the games on Tivo in the evening while enjoying an adult beverage. I have been trying to choose a brand based in the country of one of the participants. So far Dos Equis and Heineken are gone. Fosters can't be eliminated fast enough. I'm hoping Becks and Newcastle hang around for a while. Spain/France might have to have a good Bordeaux as a substitute. The Brazil/Ghana and Swiss/Ukraine games might be thirsty affairs for a lack of local supply.

Fosters isn't really Australian, so let yourself off the hook.

I just got back from Italy and I couldn't stand Peroni.

Somehow get some Cascade premium lager.

By the way. I was in Rome for the Italy vs USA match and it was quite an experience. Great time and the guys at the pub were very respectful and spoke damn good English.

Brazil shirts are EVERYWHERE. They must be the Yankees of the soccer world. I doubt there are really that many Brazilian tourists in Italy.

Cedric
06-25-2006, 08:53 PM
Another weird thing about Italy is that they played just one of the three games each day. They would have a game of the day and that was it. I figured for such a big soccer country I would have no problems getting the game on the tv.

WMR
06-25-2006, 09:00 PM
Marcelo Balboa is the worst commentator I've ever been forced to endure (any sport). Awful delivery, inconsistent analysis, a couple peeves: He says "that's better" and "look at this" at least ten times a game. Marcelo, why are you telling me to look at the television?

It's such a joke that he's ABC/ESPN's #1 guy for the World Cup.

WMR
06-25-2006, 09:29 PM
Another weird thing about Italy is that they played just one of the three games each day. They would have a game of the day and that was it. I figured for such a big soccer country I would have no problems getting the game on the tv.

Wow, that is really surprising. Even like in bars and stuff?

Cedric
06-25-2006, 09:34 PM
Wow, that is really surprising. Even like in bars and stuff?

Hard Rock had all three games. I assume some regular bars had satellite also, just hard to find them.

I had a great time watching the Italy Vs USA game though. Everybody in the restaurant/bar we were at said they were surprised by how good Onyewu and Mastroeni were. World class players.

Pablo I had a little laugh about, but Onyewu is going to be out of the Belgium league quickly.

WMR
06-25-2006, 09:38 PM
Yup, Onyewu and Dempsey both earned themselves big-time Euro-league offers.

Did they think De Rossi deserved the red? Did they think the straight red on Mastro was warranted? How did they feel about the officiating overall?

I was reading some Italian press that labeled the game an embarassment to Italian football, esp. the behavior of De Rossi.

Cedric
06-25-2006, 09:39 PM
Well it was in Rome so they were extremely pissed about Totti getting taken out. The guys I talked with just sounded dissapointed about the style of play. They weren't surprised at all about the Italians taking us lightly, said that is a part of Italian soccer history. Overlooking teams they are much better than.

And I don't think anyone could defend DeRossi on that one.

Nugget
06-25-2006, 10:59 PM
You actually can't get Fosters for love or money in Australia. Funny that its the Australian beer but no one drinks it. For a good one go for the Cascade, Hahn or Coopers.

It'll be interesting tonight with the main street being closed in the Italian centres in Australia.

oneupper
06-26-2006, 12:56 AM
The sad thing is, FIFA's whole approach to this cup in directing the refs to be more liberal with the cards actually promotes diving. They need to put a stop to it. Simply allowing for posthumous cards to be given and stiff fines by video replay would curb a lot of it. IMO, it should be priority #1 for FIFA.

Incredible, but you're right.

Awful match. There was fouling, but also a ton of flopping and writhing on the ground...
Not much soccer.

Used to be that the South American teams were the master actors. In the '70s the Argentinos were perhaps the worst (or best...depending how you look at it). Sad to see that bad habit was globalized.

Outshined_One
06-26-2006, 02:42 AM
You actually can't get Fosters for love or money in Australia. Funny that its the Australian beer but no one drinks it. For a good one go for the Cascade, Hahn or Coopers.

It'll be interesting tonight with the main street being closed in the Italian centres in Australia.

I was in NZ a few years ago with a large student group. We went out to the bars one night and came across some Aussie tourists. We got to chatting and having a good time. One of the guys in our group asked the following question:

"Hey guys, in the US, we have these commercials for Foster's. They say that it's Australian for beer. Is it really true you guys love that stuff over there?"

The Aussies went dead silent, looked at each other, and busted out laughing.

I'm a Victoria Bitter fan, by the way. :D

NJReds
06-26-2006, 09:31 AM
Brazil shirts are EVERYWHERE. They must be the Yankees of the soccer world. I doubt there are really that many Brazilian tourists in Italy.

They are the Yankees. And most of their national team plays (or played at one time) for the big Italian clubs.

westofyou
06-26-2006, 10:29 AM
You actually can't get Fosters for love or money in Australia. Funny that its the Australian beer but no one drinks it. For a good one go for the Cascade, Hahn or Coopers.

It'll be interesting tonight with the main street being closed in the Italian centres in Australia.
In Ireland they hate Harp, think its garbage.

And they're right.

Cedric
06-26-2006, 10:33 AM
They are the Yankees. And most of their national team plays (or played at one time) for the big Italian clubs.

Ronaldinho was the big seller. Barcelona is close I guess.

reds1869
06-26-2006, 11:59 AM
Mmm...Cascade. I think it's time for me to make a trip to Jungle Jim's and pick some up.

WMR
06-26-2006, 12:39 PM
No one flops quite like the Italians.

WMR
06-26-2006, 12:51 PM
What total crap; wow I can't wait to see Italy lose.

Yachtzee
06-26-2006, 12:53 PM
How the Italians get away with that garbage is beyond me.

oneupper
06-26-2006, 12:55 PM
How the Italians get away with that garbage is beyond me.

Always have. There is great play in the Italian league, but as far as the national side...its always this crap. Play back...try to get a call.

Lousy call by the ref...

FIFA World Cup is now offically World Diving Championship.

reds1869
06-26-2006, 12:59 PM
It is beyond obvious to me that FIFA wants a European nation to win this World Cup. What a horrible display of refereeing. I never thought I'd say this, but FIFA needs immediate video replay of all penalty kicks and cardede offenses. What an absolutely abysmal result. Australia deserved the win...sad for them they will not have the chance to go another 30 minutes.

oneupper
06-26-2006, 01:08 PM
It is beyond obvious to me that FIFA wants a European nation to win this World Cup. What a horrible display of refereeing. I never thought I'd say this, but FIFA needs immediate video replay of all penalty kicks and cardede offenses. What an absolutely abysmal result. Australia deserved the win...sad for them they will not have the chance to go another 30 minutes.

I wouldn't go that far. I watched most of the game (but didn't see the Italian Red Card)...Australia had much more stamina, but are behind talent-wise. This one could have easily been a shoot-out.

FIFA would have loved a cinderella story like Australia, much more than enduring the Italians' boring defensive play for a more rounds (with the Italian gambling scandal as a commentary backdrop).

Nah...this one was the ref. He saw the man go down, made a choice, it just happened to be the wrong one.

WMR
06-26-2006, 01:12 PM
It's a real shame that this WC's enduring memory will be the unbelievably bad refereeing. At least to this point of the competition.

reds1869
06-26-2006, 01:12 PM
I wouldn't go that far. I watched most of the game (but didn't see the Italian Red Card)...Australia had much more stamina, but are behind talent-wise. This one could have easily been a shoot-out.

FIFA would have loved a cinderella story like Australia, much more than enduring the Italians' boring defensive play for a more rounds (with the Italian gambling scandal as a commentary backdrop).

Nah...this one was the ref. He saw the man go down, made a choice, it just happened to be the wrong one.

I know I am probably overreacting, mostly because the calls always seem to go against the team I'm cheering for. So I have a modified version of the homer glasses and I'm still reeling from USA's ouster. And I hate the Italians. :)

oneupper
06-26-2006, 01:55 PM
It's a real shame that this WC's enduring memory will be the unbelievably bad refereeing. At least to this point of the competition.

This is my ninth World Cup. The refereeing has always been pretty controlversial. In two years you forget about it and start anticipating the next one.

DropDocK
06-26-2006, 02:40 PM
That just sucks for Australia. I was hopeful they would pull it out and show that they should not have been so underrated. Disappointing way to end the game.

um Go Germany, I guess...only one left I have ties to.

Yachtzee
06-26-2006, 02:43 PM
On a lighter note...my 3 year old son really loves those Adidas commercials with the two little boys playing with all the great soccer players to the tune of that "If I don't get my football back..." He even has memorized what the kids say, even though I have no idea what they are saying myself.

RawOwl UK
06-26-2006, 03:05 PM
England have been below average so far !!!!! Hopefully they come good on Saturday versus a team who dont put 10 men behind the ball for long periods of play.

The saving tackle by Cole was imense yesterday.

RawOwl UK
06-26-2006, 03:12 PM
In Ireland they hate Harp, think its garbage.

And they're right.

Why would you drink Harp in Ireland when the Guiness is so :thumbup:

VB is my fave Aussie beer.

Whats the fave beer in the U.S then ? *prays it's not B*d *:laugh:

My fave over here at the moment is Carling Extra Cold, BUT it has to come it's proper Carling glass with the filter at the bottom :cool:

westofyou
06-26-2006, 03:14 PM
Whats the fave beer in the U.S then ? *prays it's not B*d *I live in Portland or. We have more Micro Breweries then any other city in the world, good beer here.

I myself like IPA's, Stouts and Porters.

Love the bitters.

RawOwl UK
06-26-2006, 03:24 PM
You should come over here for the Beer festivals !!!!! My head is still hurting from Feb .

I gave up slating refs years ago. They are usually dreadful so I am not suprised with some of the decisions made in this WC.

Yachtzee
06-26-2006, 03:29 PM
You should come over here for the Beer festivals !!!!! My head is still hurting from Feb .

I gave up slating refs years ago. They are usually dreadful so I am not suprised with some of the decisions made in this WC.

There's nothing like a pint of real ale at an English Pub. :beerme:

RawOwl UK
06-26-2006, 04:25 PM
There's nothing like a pint of real ale at an English Pub. :beerme:

Playing Pool & Darts, betting on the Horse Racing (or anything). At the moment some people may as well put a tent in the pub car parks with the amount of time they are in the pub for the World Cup games.

I'll take some pics from my local pub for you all on Saturday at the Portugal game if you like . :beerme:

RawOwl UK
06-26-2006, 04:40 PM
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41f9282dzf81ae34b/bdac/__sr_/dd20.jpg?phgxEoEBzjaS__Rw
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41f9282dzf81ae34b/bdac/__sr_/5504.jpg?phgxEoEB4X2O84Ra

My mate Hodgie 2 hours before kick off yesterday.

And another mate Tez trying to get a text sent !!!!

M2
06-26-2006, 06:39 PM
Today was definitely the wannabe section of the draw. It's sad that either Italy or Ukraine will be going through to the semis where they'll act as the sacrificial lamb for either Germany or Argentina.

Nugget
06-26-2006, 07:59 PM
Disappointed - can't really say the better team won on the night either. The Italians were certainly a class act but gut wrenching for the way it went. I would say that this world cup has been one of the worst for referring. Even in the other cups there were always a handful of top class referees who you could always rely on to put in a world class performance. Having seen the Italians I think Germany or Argentina should be looking forward to going through. The Italian and Ukraine QF will be one to miss if you want to see a good game of football. They have both been atrocious with each having played one good game.

WMR
06-26-2006, 08:11 PM
I blame a lot of this on the seeding. Why not switch Ivory Coast and Tunisia? Instead they put the most exciting African team in, arguably, the most difficult group.

WMR
06-26-2006, 08:14 PM
Pretty kind words out of you, Nug, calling the Italians a class act. I'd classify their footballing as just about the polar opposite of that.

Cedric
06-26-2006, 10:05 PM
I doubt very much Italy is going to be throttled by anyone. They have a very strong back line and one of the best keepers in the world.

I wouldn't write them off yet.

Cedric
06-26-2006, 10:06 PM
Pretty kind words out of you, Nug, calling the Italians a class act. I'd classify their footballing as just about the polar opposite of that.

How so? There isn't a player in the world that wouldn't have went down on that play. Not one IMO.

reds1869
06-26-2006, 11:27 PM
How so? There isn't a player in the world that wouldn't have went down on that play. Not one IMO.


I don't think many have a problem with the play that led to the PK. But calling Italy classy is like saying Ben Stiller is too enthusiastic.

Nugget
06-27-2006, 12:59 AM
The Italians were classy in skill level, be that acting or genuine football. As for the way they play the game that's up for argument.

Australia suffered in not having Kewell or Emerton available the two better players with the ball at the feet, players who will run at the defence. The Italians are good in the air and stopping the through ball, but if they get someone who runs at them that could cause troubles. That's why it will be a close match if they get to play Germany but Argentina will kick them out for sure. BTW Spain is also off the Christmas Card list as well.

WMR
06-27-2006, 01:32 AM
How so? There isn't a player in the world that wouldn't have went down on that play. Not one IMO.

Not that play but the game in whole along with their entire World Cup along with their entire nation's footballing history.

They play ugly, cynical soccer and they are the worst, most blatant dive artists in the world.

Cedric
06-27-2006, 03:07 AM
Not that play but the game in whole along with their entire World Cup along with their entire nation's footballing history.

They play ugly, cynical soccer and they are the worst, most blatant dive artists in the world.

I don't argue the history. I just assumed you were speaking of that final play.

WMR
06-27-2006, 03:46 AM
Nah, I mean, if I'm the ref, I keep my whistle in my pocket b/c I think the Italian player COULD have avoided the contact quite easily.

HOWEVER, the ref was within his powers to grant them the PK on that play. It wasn't a dive. It was merely taking advantage of what the Australian defender put right in front of you.

The Aussie defender made a horrible mental error to put himself in that position in the first place b/c he should know, unequivocally, that he is placing himself at the attacker's mercy and that expecting any help from the ref is poor strategy.

WMR
06-27-2006, 03:56 AM
Nug is right: Emerton and Kewell provide most of their midfield ideas. Bresciano did his level best, but they missed those two greatly.

They would have been better off going with the striker Aloisi from the start, along with Viduka, and playing Cahill in a more withdrawn role, providing linkage.

I think Guus definitely waited too long to bring on the 2nd striker.

WMR
06-27-2006, 04:00 AM
Speaking of missing players: I heard that Brazil will be without Robinho tomorrow. Some sort of muscle strain. That really stinks. I really hope that they don't go back to the Adriano - Ronaldo partnership up front. I'd like to see them push up Ronaldinho and insert Juninho into his spot.

Also: Ghana's midfield will really struggle tomorrow w/o Essien.

reds1869
06-27-2006, 07:39 AM
Nah, I mean, if I'm the ref, I keep my whistle in my pocket b/c I think the Italian player COULD have avoided the contact quite easily.

The Australian defender should never have gone to ground there. IMO, if he just marks the Italian closely he probably does not score and there is no PK. You have to know that if you are Australia and they are Italia, THEY are going to get the call. Sad, but that's the way it works in any sport, at any level, in any place around the world. If you are the underdog you give the Ref no reason to make a judgement call, because it will most certainly go against you.

Betterread
06-27-2006, 08:36 AM
I saw the end of the Italy win and I don't see the controversy. Lucas Neil did not have to slide in front of Grosso, it was poor defensive skill and a bad decision. I'm sure fatigue had something to do with it. He didn't get the ball, and Grosso easily pushed the ball around him, and tripped over the prone Neil. Could he have avoided him by leaping with both feet? Probably, but he would have lost an important split second doing that (there was another Australian defender closing hard).
Diving is not an Italian specialty. I'm a Liverpool fan and Harry Kewell is as skilled at diving as anyone in the world and he and Garcia, Alonso and (now formerly) Cisse on Liverpool display the necessary skills of deception to prove that diving is being practiced on all continents in the world.

NJReds
06-27-2006, 08:44 AM
I saw the end of the Italy win and I don't see the controversy. Lucas Neil did not have to slide in front of Grosso, it was poor defensive skill and a bad decision. I'm sure fatigue had something to do with it. He didn't get the ball, and Grosso easily pushed the ball around him, and tripped over the prone Neil. Could he have avoided him by leaping with both feet? Probably, but he would have lost an important split second doing that (there was another Australian defender closing hard).

Absolutely agree. If that PK call happened in the 50' instead of the 94' then it's hardly an issue.


Diving is not an Italian specialty. I'm a Liverpool fan and Harry Kewell is as skilled at diving as anyone in the world and he and Garcia, Alonso and (now formerly) Cisse on Liverpool display the necessary skills of deception to prove that diving is being practiced on all continents in the world.

Diving is a part of soccer, like it or not. The Italians do it, the Argentinians and Brazilians do it, and the Dutch and Portuguese put on a clinic the other day.

And that's why the officials have so much difficulty at times. It's hard to make accurate foul calls and dish out cards when every slight touch is made out to be a fatal injury.

ochre
06-27-2006, 09:21 AM
they should require the 'writher' to move/be moved off the field for a set amount of time based on the ref's interpretation of the severity of the injury. That might slow them down a bit.

NJReds
06-27-2006, 09:24 AM
they should require the 'writher' to move/be moved off the field for a set amount of time based on the ref's interpretation of the severity of the injury. That might slow them down a bit.

They did try that at one point w/ the stretcher.

When a player comes down, he's supposed to be stretchered off immediately and not allowed back on until the referee waives him back in.

ochre
06-27-2006, 09:50 AM
They did try that at one point w/ the stretcher.

When a player comes down, he's supposed to be stretchered off immediately and not allowed back on until the referee waives him back in.
Didn't it work?

NJReds
06-27-2006, 10:00 AM
Not really. It's what they do now.

Used to be players just lay there -- very effective for wasting time.

And it wasn't very long ago that they started signaling how much injury time there would be -- so after 90', the ref could blow the whistle at any time. Now at least they let you know how many minutes of 'injury time' there will be.

Diving is and always will be a part of soccer. I see no way around it.

WMR
06-27-2006, 10:57 AM
I like MWM's idea. Retroactive cards, fines, or heck, I'd be OK w/ suspensions for clear-cut instances of diving which can be definitively proven by video review.

WMR
06-27-2006, 11:00 AM
I saw the end of the Italy win and I don't see the controversy. Lucas Neil did not have to slide in front of Grosso, it was poor defensive skill and a bad decision. I'm sure fatigue had something to do with it. He didn't get the ball, and Grosso easily pushed the ball around him, and tripped over the prone Neil. Could he have avoided him by leaping with both feet? Probably, but he would have lost an important split second doing that (there was another Australian defender closing hard).
Diving is not an Italian specialty. I'm a Liverpool fan and Harry Kewell is as skilled at diving as anyone in the world and he and Garcia, Alonso and (now formerly) Cisse on Liverpool display the necessary skills of deception to prove that diving is being practiced on all continents in the world.

I don't think he needed to leap with both feet. I thought he could have easily side-stepped the sliding defender, ball in tow, and had a quality attempt on goal. But with the defender all laid out, I certainly don't blame him for going airborne. JMO.

WMR
06-27-2006, 11:07 AM
Ronaldo scores early; 15th World Cup goal, new WC record

Brazil 1 - Ghana 0

M2
06-27-2006, 11:18 AM
Suddenly Ronaldo doesn't look so fat, does he?

WMR
06-27-2006, 11:19 AM
Exact reason why I don't like Adriano out there. He surrenders possession whenever he touches the ball.

He is on a breakaway with Ronaldo, if he plays the early ball to Ronaldo, Ronaldo scores easily. Instead, he dribbles on his own and then dives.

Robinho, Ronaldinho, ANY other Brazilian player makes that pass six days a week and twice on Sunday.

NJReds
06-27-2006, 11:22 AM
I like MWM's idea. Retroactive cards, fines, or heck, I'd be OK w/ suspensions for clear-cut instances of diving which can be definitively proven by video review.

I think that would be extremely helpful. Currently, they only use review on Red Cards to determine length of suspension. (As far as I know).

Yachtzee
06-27-2006, 11:38 AM
Diving is and always will be a part of soccer. I see no way around it.

Sure, it's called "Play on." I think part of the problem with this World Cup is that they told everyone they would crack down on fouls and dangerous play before the tournament started and teams have taken that as an opportunity to take dives. If they want to penalize dangerous play without encouraging dives, they should just save the cards for blatant acts on the field. If the ref has a question about it or didn't get a clear view, limit it to a free kick, review it after the game and administer cards accordingly. Any yellow or red cards will be assessed at the start of their next match. Tell them that blatant dives will also be reviewed and that if a player took a blatant dive during the game to draw a penalty or waste time, the card will be yellow for the next match. If the dive resulted in a yellow card for the other team, the carded player has the yellow revoked and the diver will get a red assessed at the start of the next match.

The only time I would have instant replay review in soccer would be for PKs. Those have such potential to change the tone of the game that they should be reviewable on the spot.

To say that Italians take dives is not to say other teams don't. However, I think the way they ham it up with the false agony is what gets on my nerves. They like to come at people pretty hard just like everyone else. It just drives me nuts to see them throw a hard elbow at one end of the field and then on the other end, fall over and writhe in agony if someone so much as breathes on them.

WMR
06-27-2006, 11:44 AM
Sure, it's called "Play on." I think part of the problem with this World Cup is that they told everyone they would crack down on fouls and dangerous play before the tournament started and teams have taken that as an opportunity to take dives. If they want to penalize dangerous play without encouraging dives, they should just save the cards for blatant acts on the field. If the ref has a question about it or didn't get a clear view, limit it to a free kick, review it after the game and administer cards accordingly. Any yellow or red cards will be assessed at the start of their next match. Tell them that blatant dives will also be reviewed and that if a player took a blatant dive during the game to draw a penalty or waste time, the card will be yellow for the next match. If the dive resulted in a yellow card for the other team, the carded player has the yellow revoked and the diver will get a red assessed at the start of the next match.

The only time I would have instant replay review in soccer would be for PKs. Those have such potential to change the tone of the game that they should be reviewable on the spot.

I think that is an excellent summation of an ideal approach.


To say that Italians take dives is not to say other teams don't. However, I think the way they ham it up with the false agony is what gets on my nerves. They like to come at people pretty hard just like everyone else. It just drives me nuts to see them throw a hard elbow at one end of the field and then on the other end, fall over and writhe in agony if someone so much as breathes on them.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Yachtzee again." ;)

WMR
06-27-2006, 11:51 AM
Wow, Brazil is so lucky to be up 2-0 at halftime on Ghana. Ghana dominated the run of play and should have scored at least 1. Adriano off-sides on the 2nd goal.

NJReds
06-27-2006, 12:05 PM
Sure, it's called "Play on."

Refs will often play on and make the "get up" hand gesture. But if a player stays down for more than a couple of seconds, invariablely - in the spirit of fair play - the other team kicks the ball out of bounds to stop play.


To say that Italians take dives is not to say other teams don't. However, I think the way they ham it up with the false agony is what gets on my nerves.

Almost all of the teams do it that way, not just the Italians. Did you not see Portugal v. Netherlands? How about the Ghana players wasting time at the end of the US match -- and they foul as hard as any team in the tourny, and yet most of their players looked to be auditioning for the final scene of Hamlet during the last 15 minutes of the match. It's part of the game, and I don't know why it's accepted.

WMR
06-27-2006, 12:20 PM
Well, it took till the 60th minute, but the Brazil manager finally did what I wanted.

M2
06-27-2006, 12:45 PM
Man, the Brazilians can finish. Ghana's played great today, but Brazil has croaked them thanks to their ability to convert.

reds1869
06-27-2006, 01:21 PM
Marcel Balboa should not be allowed anywhere near a microphone. Everytime he opens his mouth I want to hit the mute button.

WMR
06-27-2006, 01:28 PM
Marcel Balboa should not be allowed anywhere near a microphone. Everytime he opens his mouth I want to hit the mute button.

Yes. Worst commentator ever. He sucks at every aspect of his job.

Marcelo Balboa continues to amaze me with his idiocy.

DO YOU LIKE GHANA PLAYING THE OFFSIDES TRAP OR DON'T YOU?!?!

He said the exact opposite thing about the Ghanian offsides trap about 10 times.

Jeez, he sucks so bad.

M2
06-27-2006, 03:16 PM
Spain and France are a real interesting contrast of youth vs. experience. Spain's got a bunch of high-motor youngsters. They've got relative kids like Ramos, Cesc and Torres out there against Zidane, Viera and Thuram.

NJReds
06-27-2006, 04:50 PM
Wow. Looks like another disappointing World Cup result for Spain.

Nice rematch of WC 1998 coming up, though: Brazil v. France.

M2
06-27-2006, 04:51 PM
Fun game, the French played some great football. That PK goal for Spain really woke them up.

reds1869
06-27-2006, 08:30 PM
Henry vs. Ronaldo...what's not to like? Should be a fun game to watch.

MWM
06-27-2006, 09:02 PM
Man, the Brazilians can finish. Ghana's played great today, but Brazil has croaked them thanks to their ability to convert.

Yep, I've really noticed this Cup that the biggest difference between Brazil and the other teams who consistently win in this event (i.e. Germany) is the ability to finish. It's that simple. If you watch most of the game, they look evenly matched against a lot of teams, but they know how to finish their attacks with a goal while most teams just miss.

MWM
06-27-2006, 09:11 PM
France had looked very pedestrian in the cup prior to today, but they looked really good against a very good Spain team. Weird how that happens.

And I was very disappointed with Spain. They seemed to be passive and timid the entire game. It looked like they were playing scared which was the exact opposite of what got them to this point. Both teams looked the exact opposite today of how they looked in group play.

WMR
06-27-2006, 10:06 PM
France had looked very pedestrian in the cup prior to today, but they looked really good against a very good Spain team. Weird how that happens.

And I was very disappointed with Spain. They seemed to be passive and timid the entire game. It looked like they were playing scared which was the exact opposite of what got them to this point. Both teams looked the exact opposite today of how they looked in group play.


I'm telling you: Spain had better not overlook France. They looked a different squad with Trezeguet alongside Henry and they have many world-class players. Their overall WC has been poor, but they're the type of team that could put together a world-class effort in an important game like this.

:D

Loved seeing France send Spain and their racist coach home.

That's the type of final WC Zidane deserved. No matter what happens versus Brazil, a fitting send-off.

Nugget
06-27-2006, 10:16 PM
Its called Karma - take that Signor Cantelejo.

Red Heeler
06-28-2006, 08:36 AM
:D

Loved seeing France send Spain and their racist coach home.

That's the type of final WC Zidane deserved. No matter what happens versus Brazil, a fitting send-off.

Pardon my ignorance, what's with the Spanish coach?

OUReds
06-28-2006, 08:37 AM
The only thing that was missing in the France V Spain match was an Henry goal, but other then that it was the best match of the cup IMHO. Now that we are down to 8 teams, how about some predictions!

Quarters

Germany-Argentina: Argentina 2-1

Italy-Ukraine: Italy 2-0

England-Portugal: England 1-0

Brazil-France: France 2-1 (yeah I said it)

Semis

Argentina-Italy: 1-1 Argentina on PKs

England-France: England 1-0

Finals

England-Argentina: Argentina 3-1

OUReds
06-28-2006, 08:39 AM
Pardon my ignorance, what's with the Spanish coach?

He was overheard in practice before the cup using some rather vile racial slurs against Thierry Henry to "motivate" his players. He was fined by his federation, but not fired obviously.

Edit: Here is a link

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=352238&cc=5901

RawOwl UK
06-28-2006, 01:43 PM
The only thing that was missing in the France V Spain match was an Henry goal, but other then that it was the best match of the cup IMHO. Now that we are down to 8 teams, how about some predictions!

Quarters

Germany-Argentina: Argentina 2-1

Italy-Ukraine: Italy 2-0

England-Portugal: England 1-0

Brazil-France: France 2-1 (yeah I said it)

Semis

Argentina-Italy: 1-1 Argentina on PKs

England-France: England 1-0

Finals

England-Argentina: Argentina 3-1

I'll take that now !!!!!

Nugget
06-29-2006, 11:02 PM
England have a good chance against Portugal although their right back situation is of concern. JC is a good defender but will struggle against the speed of Ronaldo.

As for Germany - Argentina I'm tipping the upset with a 3-1 to the Jerrys.

Going for Ukraine for an unlikely win against Italy - is a penalty in injury time too much to ask for.

Brazil hasn't hit their straps yet but you gotta think they're going to soon. Tip the referee hobbles off with a painful achilles tendon injury in the first minute.

Reds Fanatic
06-30-2006, 01:31 PM
The Germany-Argentina quarterfinal is going to end in a penaly kick shootout.

M2
06-30-2006, 01:41 PM
Jens Lehmann just earned his keep.

oneupper
06-30-2006, 01:46 PM
Jens Lehmann just earned his keep.

Not much of a game, but entertaining end.

Anyone know what the row at the end was all about?

Cedric
06-30-2006, 01:47 PM
Blaim the injury on the Argentina goal keeper. Kills for the Pk's and tactically it screwed them up.

westofyou
06-30-2006, 02:02 PM
Germany couldn't get anything done in their box, the Argentines pretty much spent the day clearing the ball out of the box everytime (but one) that it came in.

But the German goal took the wind out of their sails.

RawOwl UK
07-01-2006, 08:16 AM
06/30/06 - USL First Division (USLFD)

TAMPA, FL - United Soccer Leagues announced the coaches and players for the USL First Division All-Star Game set for July 19 in Cary, North Carolina versus English Coca Cola Championship League side Sheffield Wednesday. The game will be carried live on Fox Soccer Channel at 8:00 pm ET.


The coaches for the team are Montreal's Nick DeSantis, who will serve as head coach, and Rochester's Laurie Calloway. The pair finished first and second for the 2005 Coach of the Year honors, respectively.


Leading the list of players is former World Cup MVP Romario, who currently ranks second in the league in goals with nine on the campaign. The Brazilian legend will be joined by fellow 1994 World Cup teammate Zinho and Guatemalan international Mario Rodriguez.


Three All-League selections from last season also highlight the roster with two-time Defender of the year Gabriel Gervais of the Montreal Impact joined on the back line by the Portland Timbers' Scot Thompson. Both were on the All-League First Team in 2005. Second Team selection Petter Villegas will represent Puerto Rico.


Gervais will be joined by Impact teammates Mauricio Vincello and Villegas will be accompanied by Mauricio Segovia from the Islanders.


League-leading goalkeepers in shutouts Scott Vallow (8) of Rochester and Matt Nelson (6) of Virginia Beach will backstop the team with current three-time Goalkeeper of the Year Greg Sutton out due to injury.


The 18-player squad for the USL First Division All-Star Game, which will featured kits provided by official USL sponsor UMBRO, was selected by United Soccer Leagues in consultation with DeSantis and Calloway.


"With the opponent in the All-Star game being an established club side, we wanted to ensure that not only were the fan favorites represented, but also players who would make the team complete from a competitive standpoint, which is often not the case with All-Star games," said USL Director of Pro League Operations Steven Thompson. "I think we struck a great balance in selecting stars from across the league and have built a team that will be very good coming together with brief preparation for the match."


Players from Seattle and Vancouver were unavailable for selection to due scheduled friendlies with their club.


USL First Division All-Star Game Roster

G Nelson, Matt Virginia Beach Mariners

G Vallow, Scott Rochester Raging Rhinos

D Branan, Dustin Minnesota Thunder

D Gervais, Gabriel Montreal Impact

D Sanfilippo, Frank Rochester Raging Rhinos

D Thompson, Scot Portland Timbers

D Vincello, Mauricio Montreal Impact

D/M Segovia, Mauricio Puerto Rico Islanders

M Ball, John Rochester Raging Rhinos

M Daley, Omar Charleston Battery

M Dodds, Jamie Toronto Lynx

M Shak, Steve Virginia Beach Mariners

M Zinho Miami FC

M/F Villegas, Petter Puerto Rico Islanders

F McLaughlin, Jason Atlanta Silverbacks

F Rodriguez, Mario Miami FC

F Romario Miami FC

F Simmonds, Greg Virginia Beach Mariners


Roster subject to change


Anyway I will be able to see this from England ??

WMR
07-01-2006, 12:23 PM
Red card to Rooney for the WWE groin stomp.

RawOwl, please step away from the ledge. ;)

Should England advance... could use a little bit of Jermain Defoe right about now (nicely done, Sven, nicely done)... Will England be forced to play with 2 up top? Surely they can't expect to generate any offense with Crouch alone on an island up top.

MWM
07-01-2006, 01:56 PM
Even in slow motion I couldn't tell if Rooney's step in the groin was intentional or if he was just trying to put his foot down to get his balance. I thought straight red was a bit harsh. England had no business advancing. They were clearly the weakest team left and never looked very good the entire Cup. They had an extremely weka offensive attack and played too much "sit back and try not to lose" soccer. I'm no Portugal fan at all(I can't stand Cristiano Ronaldo...even though I realize he's a phenomenal player), but they are quite a bit better than England, IMO, based on this World Cup.

And what a weak effort on kicks by the English team. Sure, the Portugese keeper was great, but England's misses never made him move more than a couple of feet in either direction. They were very poor attempts.

WMR
07-01-2006, 02:31 PM
Even in slow motion I couldn't tell if Rooney's step in the groin was intentional or if he was just trying to put his foot down to get his balance. I thought straight red was a bit harsh. England had no business advancing. They were clearly the weakest team left and never looked very good the entire Cup. They had an extremely weka offensive attack and played too much "sit back and try not to lose" soccer. I'm no Portugal fan at all(I can't stand Cristiano Ronaldo...even though I realize he's a phenomenal player), but they are quite a bit better than England, IMO, based on this World Cup.

And what a weak effort on kicks by the English team. Sure, the Portugese keeper was great, but England's misses never made him move more than a couple of feet in either direction. They were very poor attempts.

Sven Goran Ericson and Bruce Arena must have gone to the same "How to play cowardly soccer" school. Can I say one more time how much I loathe the 4-5-1.

SGE should have taken Jermain Defoe and left Walcott at home. He had no options other than Crouch. He took Walcott yet never played him. I don't know who is guilty of being the worst manager in this World Cup, Bruce Arena or Sven Goran but they were both dreadful.

If I were an England fan, I'd be throughly pissed at SGE. They are a much better team than they showed this WC. They played a 4-4-2 (majority of the time anyway) in all of their WC warm-ups, as did the USA. Why did both of these managers suddenly lose their stones on the world's biggest stage??

IslandRed
07-01-2006, 04:19 PM
France takes a 1-0 lead on Brazil in the 56th minute or so. Henry was WIDE open on the set-piece... the French had a jailbreak to the net, which makes me wonder if Brazil was supposed to be playing an offsides trap and a couple of them didn't get the message.

Edit: France holds on 1-0.

OUReds
07-01-2006, 04:59 PM
Being angry at SGE was a national pastime even before this atrocious effort. As far as France goes, I love the way they play. It is everything England should have been, but wasn't. I've never seen Brazil so outplayed.

WMR
07-01-2006, 05:09 PM
Ronaldinho pushed up too far; Cafu belongs in a rocking chair, not as their right wing back; they became 2x as dangerous when he was finally subbed out for Cicinho.

Roberto Carlos was dreadful the entire WC.

Ronaldo's lack of fitness finally caught up with him.

No Robinho till the 79th minute?? Dumb.

Wow, what poor managing out of so many supposed experts this WC.

It must be remarked upon, however, that in addition to Parreira's dumb decisions, that was the most pedestrian effort I've ever seen out of a Brazil team in a knockout match.

MWM
07-01-2006, 05:50 PM
Brazil looked bored until about the last 10 minutes.

Oh man, Zidane is so freaking awesome. Even with his loss of a few steps he's still one of the best in the world. I'm going to miss that guy. He absolutely put on a clinic of how to control a game from the midfield today. He's something special and I hate to see him go.

WMR
07-01-2006, 06:27 PM
I wish Zidane would lower himself to spend 3-4 seasons in MLS.

They showed what I assume is his good buddy, the French dude who plays for New York Red Bull and was a former big-time French International.

Betterread
07-01-2006, 08:52 PM
Brazil looked bored until about the last 10 minutes.

Oh man, Zidane is so freaking awesome. Even with his loss of a few steps he's still one of the best in the world. I'm going to miss that guy. He absolutely put on a clinic of how to control a game from the midfield today. He's something special and I hate to see him go.

He is a player of the highest class and quality who is playing for his "soccer life" and inspiring his teammates in the process. He is a perfect example of a leader on the field. He controlled this game; this game against a very strong Brazilian squad.

MWM
07-01-2006, 10:16 PM
Judging by the way France has played in the elimination rounds, I think they have to be the favorites to win it all at this point, but the German home field advantage might be tough to overcome. My guess is we'll se a France - Germany final.

oneupper
07-01-2006, 10:48 PM
Judging by the way France has played in the elimination rounds, I think they have to be the favorites to win it all at this point, but the German home field advantage might be tough to overcome. My guess is we'll se a France - Germany final.

As much as I despise their style of play, I wouldn't count Italy out.
Germany won the cup when Italy hosted, it would be interesting if Italy won in Germany.

RawOwl UK
07-02-2006, 04:34 AM
I have no problem with SGE . It doesn't matter who's in charge of the national team they will get battered by the English press whatever. Did Portugal deserve to advance ?

I hope in future England throw themselves around after being fouled and try and get other players sent off.

I did think Rooney deserved the Red.

Will put some pics up later.

Yachtzee
07-02-2006, 11:36 AM
Judging by the way France has played in the elimination rounds, I think they have to be the favorites to win it all at this point, but the German home field advantage might be tough to overcome. My guess is we'll se a France - Germany final.

It raises an interesting question. As an American (or anyone else whose team has been eliminated), who do you root for to make the final?

Germany? - The home team. I think many Americans might have problems rooting for them, having been raised on films that portray Germans as heel-clicking fascists. However, they've played well in this World Cup and actually appear to enjoy themselves. (Full Disclosure Notice: Being of ethnic German extraction, I've been pulling for them along with England behind the USA).

Italy? - Grrrrrrr! Normally, Americans have a natural affinity towards Italians. We love Italian food. Unlike the Germans and French, the Italians have often supported the US politically. Italians culturally seem much more gregarious than the Germans or French. However, the Italians play a most cynical style of soccer that just doesn't play well in the US. They have no problems commiting hard fouls when it's to their benefit, but if the other team so much as breaths on them, they fall on the ground and roll around like they've been shot. I can't stand that style of play.

Portugal? - See Italy above. Add to that the fact that one of their star players, Christian Ronaldo, has those boyish good looks that appeal to preteen girls but just annoys everyone else.

France? - Once again, Americans just don't like the French, mainly because it seems like the French don't like us. Many Americans resent that because they feel like the US saved their behinds two World Wars. But then, yesterday's play against Brazil seemed truly inspired, especially Zidane. Also, many of their players are children of immigrants, just like Americans. And just look at Zidane and Barthez. Couldn't you just imagine them dressed up as French Resistance, harkening back to a time when the US and French got along?

IMO - the best match-up from a football perspective is Germany v. France. If both teams play at their best, we'll see a great game. Germany has played well throughout the tournament and France has really come on as of late. If not both, one of these teams will hopefully make the final to give me someone to root for.

The worst match-up: Italy v. Portugal. FIFA sent out a message that it would not tolerate dirty play or diving, characteristic of both of these teams. The sad thing is, both teams have talented players who shouldn't need to resort to those tactics. We want to see games won and lost by the players on the field, with little involvement from the ref. But these two teams, from what I've seen, play as though they actually want the ref to decide it. Even if they have their man beat, they almost seem more willing to dive in an attempt to draw a PK rather than take an honest shot themselves.

On a side note. I was really hoping that England would advance, but based on what I saw yesterday, they didn't deserve to. Even though he made a huge mistake, Rooney seemed like one of the few players interested in getting the ball in the vicinity of the goal. If there is one brand of football I hate almost as much as the foul and dive approach, it's the tentative "pass it around the backfield" approach. When a team gets the ball, I want to see them pushing it immediately to the midfield in order create mismatches on offense. I want to see quick, long passes that stretch the field and create open space. I hate it when a team gets the ball and slows it down with short, back-and-forth passes. It lets the other team get back and set up its defense. It causes the traffic jams to occur at midfield and kills any kind of excitement from the game.

MWM
07-02-2006, 11:53 AM
Zidane makes it easy to root for France. I'd love to see him go out with another Cup. He's just a remarkable player and a great guy to boot.

M2
07-02-2006, 04:35 PM
France has played some gorgeous football during it's last two games. It took the game to two of the best attacking teams in the world and Zidane' s been the best player in this World Cup so far.

That said, I'd like to see Portugal win despite their Greg Louganis imitations. It would be kind of exciting to see someone new win the Cup and their attack will be a lot more robust with Deco back in the fold. Plus, I once interviewed one of famed four horsemen from Portugal, Jose Augusto, and gave me the best quote of reportorial career. In response to hearing that MLB had just cancelled its season and that there would be no championship he said, "In Portugal if there is no championship, there is only death."

Italy's only hope against Germany is a 0-0 tie and a win on penalty kicks. I doubt they can keep the Germans out of the net for 120 minutes, but they'll be obstinate and pack players into their defensive end the whole game. Germany won't likely get to win pretty.

As long as Germany's in the final, it's an interesting matchup. France-Germany needs no explanation. Portugal-Germany is a nice David vs. Goliath story, though David can really play the game and might have the best netminder on the planet.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-02-2006, 04:40 PM
As an American, I'm pulling for Germany, mainly because of heritage. I'm German-Italian, so I could really go either way, but I've been a fan of the German team since Klinsman was playing.

Nugget
07-02-2006, 07:53 PM
Having seen all the teams play I agree the best footballing match would be Germany - France and a German win as they have played the best throughout the tournament.

Also I don't think the Germany v Italy game will be that close. The Ukrainians were really out of their depth and they had a number of clear shots on goal which were missed. The Germans will be more clinical in their finishing.

reds1869
07-02-2006, 09:04 PM
Well, one side of my family rooting interest was eliminated yesterday, but I still have one left. Go Deutschland!

Betterread
07-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Great win for Italy - who were rewarded with a win for their superior play - it could have been 4-0. I hope to see Nesta get a chance to play in the final and it was nice to see Del Piero get a goal. Cannavaro, Pirlo, Materazzi all played very well. Totti, Gattuso need to be more effective.

Cedric
07-04-2006, 06:12 PM
Italy won last time they had a scandal, why not again?

They were the superior team and they deserved to win. IMO.

MWM
07-04-2006, 07:16 PM
I didn't see any superioirity until the overtime. In regular time I thought the Germans outplayed them. I'm not sure what happened to the Germans in the OT, but it seemed they were just content to let it go to PKs and looked disinterested.

Italy is the most underwhelming team in the final that I can ever remember. They haven't been impressive the entire tournament and it's disappointing to me that they're where they are. They are the one team I didn't want to see make it.

If the Germans want to blame someone, blame Podolski. He was awful today. There wasn't anything Lehmann could have done with the two goals.

oneupper
07-04-2006, 07:23 PM
[QUOTE=MWM]

Italy is the most underwhelming team in the final that I can ever remember. They haven't been impressive the entire tournament and it's disappointing to me that they're where they are. They are the one team I didn't want to see make it.
[QUOTE]

Welcome to Italian soccer. They ALWAYS do this, but have a knack for leaving the best for last.

The play for the counterattack...always. And it works, because they don't make many mistakes in the back. You can't beat them, only hope for a scoreless tie and penalty kicks.

My bet is that the World Cup will end on penalty kicks.

NJReds
07-04-2006, 07:26 PM
Italy is the most underwhelming team in the final that I can ever remember.

Germany 2002 says Hi...:wave: They were lucky to get past the US and beat a S. Korea team that had it's hand held throughout the entire tourny.

Cedric
07-04-2006, 07:33 PM
I don't see what is underwhelming about Italy. They win and they have the best keeper in the world.

It's not like they are lucky. They are tactically brilliant in the back, they beat the host nation in the semis, and they haven't allowed a true goal in the whole tournament.

They have awesome depth also. I think they deserve to play for the cup. Nothing fluke about Italy.

MWM
07-04-2006, 07:42 PM
I know you just came back from Italy and all, but I have yet to see any tactictal brilliance. Their entire game plan is what oneupper says it is. Sorry, but there's been nothing impressive on the offensive side of the ball although they do play good defense and Gianluigi is fantastic. But they play the same style England plays which is not to lose. Maybe it works for them, but I can't stand to watch it and it's certainly not impressive. I'm not sure what happened in the OT, but Germany stopped playing.

Cedric
07-04-2006, 07:44 PM
I know you just came back from Italy and all, but I have yet to see any tactictal brilliance. Their entire game plan is what oneupper says it is. Sorry, but there's been nothing impressive on the offensive side of the ball although they do play good defense and Gianluigi is fantastic. But they play the same style England plays which is not to lose. Maybe it works for them, but I can't stand to watch it and it's certainly not impressive. I'm not sure what happened in the OT, but Germany stopped playing.

It's not impressive to you while they play for the cup.

It's Italy and it's soccer. Are you new to international soccer? You act like I'm making Greece into a world beater. It's Italy dude.

NJReds
07-04-2006, 07:47 PM
They had far more and far better chances today. I'm not sure how that's "playing to lose" -- Germany managed one decent shot on net today. Italy netted 2, hit two posts and had Lehmann scrambling.

MWM
07-04-2006, 07:50 PM
That's why I said they're the most underwhelming team in the final that I can remember. It happens. Unimpressive teams make it to the Super Bowl, World Series from time to time even (you even said so about this past Super Bowl). A no, I'm not new to international soccer, which is why I can watch every game they have played and scratch my head at the fact that they're going to be playing for the championship. This ain't the Italy that was the powerhouse in the past.



They had far more and far better chances today. I'm not sure how that's "playing to lose" -- Germany managed one decent shot on net today. Italy netted 2, hit two posts and had Lehmann scrambling.

In overtime, yes. In regular time I'm not so sure. I'm not sure what Podolski's problem was today but he took a few premium opoprtunities and did absolutely nothing with them. I'm not suggesting Germany looked great today. But based on my watching of the Cup I don't see this Italian team as comparable to most of the teams I've seen in the final since I've been watching. The other team that came to mind is like oneupper said, the 2002 German team.

Red Heeler
07-04-2006, 07:59 PM
Italy is the most underwhelming team in the final that I can ever remember. They haven't been impressive the entire tournament and it's disappointing to me that they're where they are. They are the one team I didn't want to see make it.

Italy is to international soccer what the Patriots are to the NFL. Smothering defense, and a safe, counterattacking offense. It's ugly and not particularly entertaining to watch, but it wins championships.

Cedric
07-04-2006, 08:00 PM
That's why I said they're the most underwhelming team in the final that I can remember. It happens. Unimpressive teams make it to the Super Bowl, World Series from time to time even. A no, I'm not new to international soccer, which is why I can watch every game they have played and scratch my head at the fact that they're going to be playing for the championship. This ain't the Italy that was the powerhouse in the past.

That's cool, I can disagree cordially.

I just got back from Italy yeah, but it's not like I fly an Italian flag or even root for their team. I just have a different opinion on their style than you. They win and always have. I thought today's game was very open and played well.

Betterread
07-04-2006, 08:29 PM
[QUOTE=MWM]I didn't see any superioirity until the overtime. In regular time I thought the Germans outplayed them. I'm not sure what happened to the Germans in the OT, but it seemed they were just content to let it go to PKs and looked disinterested. [QUOTE]

Here are some stats from the game:

Germany Italy
Shots on Goal 6 11
Fouls 19 19
Corner Kicks 4 12
Offsides 1 11
Time of Possession 42% 58%

Perhaps you have some other statistics to show how Germany outplayed Italy today.

MWM
07-04-2006, 08:43 PM
I'm not sure statistics tell us much of anything in soccer. I mean, the US had the same number of shots on goal and won the time of possession battle against the Czechs and what I saw that game was the Czech team dominating. the only stat in that game that showed the Czech team out ahead was offside with the Czechs at 10 and the the US at 0. The Ghana game is similar and I don't think the US outplayed them. Heck, go look at the stats for Spain's 4-0 waxing of the Ukraine and you sure couldn't tell who was better. And I know I saw France handle Spain pretty well in the quarters and most of these same stats you use point to Spain outplaying France.

It's not like I think Germany dominated. Neither team looked all that great, it was just my opinion that based on the first 90 minutes of the game, I thought Germany was slightly better. The OT is a completely different story.

Nugget
07-04-2006, 09:43 PM
Italy definitely had the better of the first half, the second was more even. I think the telling part of the play which would put domination on the side of the Italians is just like Argentina they pressed the Germans who had very little time on the ball. However, unlike the Argentinians the Italians have come away with something to show for their efforts. As much as the Italians deserved their win today I still cannot support them to win the Cup. Go Portugal or France.

Yachtzee
07-04-2006, 10:47 PM
Vive le France! I cannot support such a contemptuous group of divers as the Italians. Germany's big mistake is that they let the Italians get to them and it took them out of their game. The Italians (and their little sisters, the Portuguese) give hard fouls at one end and make overdramatic dives at the other. The Germans got tired of it, started retaliating and lost focus. They tried to play the Italians' game and lost. I think if they had worried more about scoring goals instead of what the Italians were doing, they might have put a few in the net.

WMR
07-04-2006, 10:53 PM
And just look at Zidane and Barthez. Couldn't you just imagine them dressed up as French Resistance, harkening back to a time when the US and French got along?

Okay, Yachtzee, seriously, the mental image of Zidane and Barthez dressed up in vintage French Resistance clothing might be the funniest thing ever.

WMR
07-04-2006, 11:00 PM
Vive le France! I cannot support such a contemptuous group of divers as the Italians. Germany's big mistake is that they let the Italians get to them and it took them out of their game. The Italians (and their little sisters, the Portuguese) give hard fouls at one end and make overdramatic dives at the other. The Germans got tired of it, started retaliating and lost focus. They tried to play the Italians' game and lost. I think if they had worried more about scoring goals instead of what the Italians were doing, they might have put a few in the net.

Agree with everything you just said. Germany allowed themselves to be taken in by the Italians negative tactics and quit doing the things that had them playing such wonderful, attacking soccer throughout this World Cup.

Before, I was a bit torn between seeing either Germany or France win the World Cup. Now, I am solidly rooting for the French to dispatch the 'little sisters' (HAHA) of Italy tomorrow and then the Italians on Sunday.

Zidane winning a WC as his final hurrah would be the stuff of storybooks, and doesn't every good storybook require a contemptible villain?

Cedric
07-04-2006, 11:12 PM
I must have been watching a different game. I thought this game was very open and played well. I saw nothing overly physical or wrong with the game.

I thought both teams could have claimed a deserving win and without having one side to root for, I was impressed.

I think acting like the Italian side is just a bunch of whiny, non talented players just pushing by is wrong. And saying that Italy won just because they trapped Germany into a dirty game is weird. I saw very few hard fouls, flops, or yellow cards.

My two cents.

Betterread
07-04-2006, 11:16 PM
[QUOTE=WilyMoROCKS]Agree with everything you just said. Germany allowed themselves to be taken in by the Italians negative tactics and quit doing the things that had them playing such wonderful, attacking soccer throughout this World Cup. [QUOTE]

I thought Italy committed to attack much more than usual, and it made for periods of wide-open attacking soccer. I thought their passing was creative and intricate and Pirlo especially was very enjoyable to watch. Germany played hard and showed endeavor and pace that threatened Italy's defense at times, but they only created a few half-chances. Buffon only had to make a few saves, and none of the saves were of the "tough" variety. I think Germany's squad is young and has to be very satisfied with a semifinal loss.

Betterread
07-04-2006, 11:19 PM
I must have been watching a different game. I thought this game was very open and played well. I saw nothing overly physical or wrong with the game.

I thought both teams could have claimed a deserving win and without having one side to root for, I was impressed.

I think acting like the Italian side is just a bunch of whiny, non talented players just pushing by is wrong. And saying that Italy won just because they trapped Germany into a dirty game is weird. I saw very few hard fouls, flops, or yellow cards.

My two cents.

I also thought it was a good game, with a minimal amount of hard fouls and a lot of skill and hard work displayed by both squads.

Cedric
07-04-2006, 11:22 PM
[QUOTE=WilyMoROCKS]Agree with everything you just said. Germany allowed themselves to be taken in by the Italians negative tactics and quit doing the things that had them playing such wonderful, attacking soccer throughout this World Cup. [QUOTE]

I thought Italy committed to attack much more than usual, and it made for periods of wide-open attacking soccer. I thought their passing was creative and intricate and Pirlo especially was very enjoyable to watch. Germany played hard and showed endeavor and pace that threatened Italy's defense at times, but they only created a few half-chances. Buffon only had to make a few saves, and none of the saves were of the "tough" variety. I think Germany's squad is young and has to be very satisfied with a semifinal loss.

They should be very satisfied. Ballack was obviously not totally fit and played a pretty poor game. Other than that they seem loaded for 06 in South Africa. If the tournament even stays in South Africa :)

RFS62
07-05-2006, 12:11 AM
OK, first off, I don't know diddly squat about soccer. But I've watched a couple of games, and I've never seen so much crying and flopping and whining in my life.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and admittedly I know little if anything about the sport. But give me a break.

ochre
07-05-2006, 12:49 AM
OK, first off, I don't know diddly squat about soccer. But I've watched a couple of games, and I've never seen so much crying and flopping and whining in my life.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and admittedly I know little if anything about the sport. But give me a break.
And that's probably why it'll be quite some time before world soccer is accepted by the general population of the US. It's unamerican to flop.

I remember watching the last world cup that was held in Germany. It was the first real soccer I had ever seen. I can remember thinking "that guy might need an amputation, but they're still playing". I soon realized it was mostly a farse (the injury machinations). As a "rub some dirt on it" American, I thought this was ridiculous.

Yachtzee
07-05-2006, 12:50 AM
I must have been watching a different game. I thought this game was very open and played well. I saw nothing overly physical or wrong with the game.

I thought both teams could have claimed a deserving win and without having one side to root for, I was impressed.

I think acting like the Italian side is just a bunch of whiny, non talented players just pushing by is wrong. And saying that Italy won just because they trapped Germany into a dirty game is weird. I saw very few hard fouls, flops, or yellow cards.

My two cents.

I never said they didn't have talent. I think Italy has a very talented side. I don't even mind that they get physical with the other team. It just bugs me to no end when they play rough on defense, get the ball, dive, act like they've been shot, and plead for the foul, or worse, for the card. I saw it all game. Italy on offense, Germany player challenges Italian player, Italian flops and acts like he's been mortally wounded. Whistle or no whistle, German extends hand to help up Italian. Half the time, Italian ignores it and continues to roll around like an idiot. 30 seconds later, Italian is making the same kind of hard challenge on a German. The Italians have been playing the same game all through the tournament. The Italians have one of the most talented teams in the tournament. They can win without the dramatics.

I was just disappointed to see the Germans get sucked in by that. The ref called a good half for most of the first half and for the most part let the players play, then a few calls went the Italians way, the ref missed a few against the Germans, then the Germans are running around with their arms in the air trying to draw the ref's attention to a foul rather than trying to get the ball back. A good team doesn't let the other guys' tactics or the ref's perceived slights get in the way of winning.

MWM
07-05-2006, 02:07 AM
OK, first off, I don't know diddly squat about soccer. But I've watched a couple of games, and I've never seen so much crying and flopping and whining in my life.

I'm sure I'm missing something, and admittedly I know little if anything about the sport. But give me a break.

Yeah, I never thought it was possible for athletes to whine more than NBA players, but "footballers" are much further advanced in this art form than even the NBA...... even Karl Malone.

I played soccer my entire life and I love watching good soccer just ever so slightly less than baseball (the world cup even more). But diving and the dramatics is so infuriating to me that it tempts me to just stop watching altogether. FIFA has never addressed it and I'm not sure why. Even European fans admit that it's a huge problem.

MWM
07-05-2006, 02:10 AM
I just watched the highlight of Italy's first goal and there are three German defenders standing around who didn't even attempt to defend the ball, before it was passed or after it was passed. They were already thinking about their penalty kicks. They deserved what they got. BTW, I've never been a fan of Germany at all. On the contrary, they've been one of my least favorite national teams over the past decade, so it's not like I have any love for them.

reds1869
07-05-2006, 08:31 AM
I was sad to see my Germans go out, but they were soundly beaten by a better team. The fact that the game went into to ET belies the fact that Italy kicked the German's collective rear up and down the field. Germany stayed in it with grit and determination, but the deserving team won. I'm still immensely proud of the national side. Now if my homeland could just do as well as my mother's...

As for my interests the rest of the cup, I'll go with the Bleus. I have an inate genetic aversion to all things French, but I can put it aside since the other two choices are Italy and Portugal.

NJReds
07-05-2006, 08:53 AM
I must have been watching a different game. I thought this game was very open and played well. I saw nothing overly physical or wrong with the game.

I thought both teams could have claimed a deserving win and without having one side to root for, I was impressed.

I think acting like the Italian side is just a bunch of whiny, non talented players just pushing by is wrong. And saying that Italy won just because they trapped Germany into a dirty game is weird. I saw very few hard fouls, flops, or yellow cards.

My two cents.

I agree with you 100% I guess we were watching a different game. ;)

M2
07-05-2006, 11:04 AM
I thought the game was entertaining though Italy went into a shell in the second half. They didn't make a seroius attack for that entire 45 minutes.

To their credit, they flipped the switch in overtime. Pirlo made an incredible play setting up that first goal.

On the subject of "worst team to make a World Cup final," IMO there's been a lot of deadly dull clubs that have done it of late. Germany in 2002 might be fresh in people's minds, but Italy in 1994 and Argentina in 1990 were awful to watch. Both those clubs specialized in pointless backwards passing. In fact, Argentina scored a grand total of five goals in seven games.

vaticanplum
07-05-2006, 11:41 AM
On the subject of "worst team to make a World Cup final," IMO there's been a lot of deadly dull clubs that have done it of late. Germany in 2002 might be fresh in people's minds, but Italy in 1994 and Argentina in 1990 were awful to watch. Both those clubs specialized in pointless backwards passing. In fact, Argentina scored a grand total of five goals in seven games.

I can't remember a more exciting national team to watch than Italy in 1994, for precisely that reverse reasoning. They never should have gotten to the final, but they pulled it out at the last minute every time. The first game against Ireland and the final against Brazil were boring as heck, but all the games in between were nail-biters. They had excellent defense and couldn't score for crap. This drew the games out and in a weird way I found that very exciting.

But I am an Italian fan til death (one reason I haven't been able to really participate in many WC discussions this year), and Maldini was still playing then, so there you go.

M2
07-05-2006, 11:57 AM
I can't remember a more exciting national team to watch than Italy in 1994, for precisely that reverse reasoning. They never should have gotten to the final, but they pulled it out at the last minute every time. The first game against Ireland and the final against Brazil were boring as heck, but all the games in between were nail-biters. They had excellent defense and couldn't score for crap. This drew the games out and in a weird way I found that very exciting.

But I am an Italian fan til death (one reason I haven't been able to really participate in many WC discussions this year), and Maldini was still playing then, so there you go.

They were dramatic, but they bored me to tears. That team rarely even attempted to attack in the offensive zone. Though Baggio was freakish with the late goals. IIRC, he scored most of them on one-man rushes.

M2
07-05-2006, 03:10 PM
Portugal and France are playing at a furious pace to start. Portugal's had three great chances inside the first ten mintues. Looks like Barthez is going to be tested today.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:22 PM
I think that whenever play is stopped for an "injured" player, that player should be required to remain out of play for 3-4 minutes. That would cut out a lot of this flopping crap that kills the flow of the game.

I am SO sick of seeing players carted off on a stretcher b/c they wanted to prevent a counter and then hopping up 1 second after leaving the field of play to be reinstated into play by the ref.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:31 PM
Penalty kick awarded to France!

M2
07-05-2006, 03:32 PM
Thierry Henry and Miguel are having a great battle today

And now Henry goes to the middle and gets a penalty kick.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:33 PM
GOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Zidane

M2
07-05-2006, 03:33 PM
How great is Zidane? Ricardo guessed right and still couldn't put a hand on that ball.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:33 PM
Replay showed it was clearly a penalty. Henry would have been alone and in on goal without the defender's trip

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:34 PM
How great is Zidane? Ricardo guessed right and still couldn't put a hand on that ball.

No kidding. Ricardo isn't really a world-class GK, but his work on penalties this WC has been nothing short of amazing.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:36 PM
I love hearing all the whistles and boos whenever Christiano Ronaldo touches the ball.

Pansy little diver boy.

M2
07-05-2006, 03:38 PM
No kidding. Ricardo isn't really a world-class GK, but his work on penalties this WC has been nothing short of amazing.

Ricardo's doing an awfully good imitation of a world-class goalie this month.

Meanwhile, Christiano Ronaldo really deserves an Oscar. I'm starting to enjoy his theatrics. The World Cup needs a good heel.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:40 PM
The thing is, he hasn't really been tested much outside of penalties.

No real challenges for Portugal in the group stage.

Netherlands was more of a wrestling match; probably his only game where he had to make some nice saves.

England - No offense from England; wonderful performance in penalties

gonelong
07-05-2006, 03:41 PM
I think that whenever play is stopped for an "injured" player, that player should be required to remain out of play for 3-4 minutes. That would cut out a lot of this flopping crap that kills the flow of the game.

I am SO sick of seeing players carted off on a stretcher b/c they wanted to prevent a counter and then hopping up 1 second after leaving the field of play to be reinstated into play by the ref.

My co-workers and I have entertained the notion that they should have 30 seconds to stand up or they will be shot and buried on the field where they have fallen.

GL

/not soccer fans - though we watch the world cup during lunch at the Mexican restuarant we go to and have proclaimed ourselves as World Cup level strategists.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:43 PM
My co-workers and I have entertained the notion that they should have 30 seconds to stand up or they will be shot and buried on the field where they have fallen.

GL

/not soccer fans - though we watch the world cup during lunch at the Mexican restuarant we go to and have proclaimed ourselves as World Cup level strategists.

That would work! :laugh:

M2
07-05-2006, 03:44 PM
The thing is, he hasn't really been tested much outside of penalties.

No real challenges for Portugal in the group stage.

Netherlands was more of a wrestling match; probably his only game where he had to make some nice saves.

England - No offense from England; wonderful performance in penalties

Ricardo's also been smothering corners.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:45 PM
Good point. He has been very solid on corners and crosses.

M2
07-05-2006, 03:48 PM
Portugal's getting the best of the midfield play so far, which is impressive because, unlike the wildly overrrated Brit team, the French team has a midfield that can control a game.

WMR
07-05-2006, 03:50 PM
As with their entire progression throughout this World Cup, should France emerge victorious today, they'll have one man to thank as being primarily responsible. Zidane has looked like the Zidane of WC 98.

reds1869
07-05-2006, 03:56 PM
unlike the wildly overrrated Brit team

cough cough...English...cough cough....

;)

RANDY IN INDY
07-05-2006, 03:59 PM
Not really in to soccer but I hate to see France win anything.

M2
07-05-2006, 04:21 PM
Not really in to soccer but I hate to see France win anything.

They've already got the best bread, wine and cheese, what else do they want?

WMR
07-05-2006, 04:54 PM
Were those subs playing for France or Portugal? It was a bit hard to tell!

Go France! One group of divers down, one more to go.

M2
07-05-2006, 05:12 PM
Great game. Figo's going to re-live that header every ten mintues for the rest of his life.

Zidane's elevated his game to sublime.

France is by far the most entertaining of the two finalists. Kind of hard to root against them.

WMR
07-05-2006, 05:15 PM
The most egregious serial-diving performance by Portugal their entire WC, which is really saying something IMO.

Every offensive flurry out of Portugal usually left at least one man flying to the ground and the replays were so funny... all of a sudden, BLAMMO, not touched or anything, the player's body contorts, he grimaces his best grimace, and falls like a sack of potatoes. BOO Portugal.

M2
07-05-2006, 05:30 PM
The most egregious serial-diving performance by Portugal their entire WC, which is really saying something IMO.

Every offensive flurry out of Portugal usually left at least one man flying to the ground and the replays were so funny... all of a sudden, BLAMMO, not touched or anything, the player's body contorts, he grimaces his best grimace, and falls like a sack of potatoes. BOO Portugal.

It didn't bug me too much because the ref paid it little to no attention. Though I imagine there's plenty of folks in Portugal who'd have preferred more finishing and less flopping.

Nugget
07-05-2006, 07:32 PM
As Leo McGarry states the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys but anything is better than Italy.

MWM
07-05-2006, 08:56 PM
Damn, I missed the game after spending the day at the lake and came home and completely forgot that I had recorded it. I opened up the internet and saw the headline that France had won. Sounds like I missed a good game. Maybe I'll watch it anyway just to see Zidane does his thang.

reds1869
07-05-2006, 09:15 PM
It didn't bug me too much because the ref paid it little to no attention. Though I imagine there's plenty of folks in Portugal who'd have preferred more finishing and less flopping.

That's part of the problem. The ref should have handed out diving yellows like they were candy. If we saw a side finish with three men due to diving in a World Cup knockout match, players would get the point. Diving would end swiftly if the rules were enforced.

NJReds
07-06-2006, 08:38 AM
I wasn't overly impressed with either side yesterday. It was a blah game. If I was a France fan, I'd be more scared of Barthez then the Italians.

Watching Christian Ronaldo play reminds me of those old SNL skits with Chevy Chase as Gerald Ford.

M2
07-06-2006, 09:58 AM
That's part of the problem. The ref should have handed out diving yellows like they were candy. If we saw a side finish with three men due to diving in a World Cup knockout match, players would get the point. Diving would end swiftly if the rules were enforced.

Except then the game would have ground to a halt. By ignoring it, the ref marginalized the behavior. I hate flopping, but when it amounts to nothing it goes from horribly annoying to kind of funny.

NJ, you've nailed Italy's big advantage in the final. Barthez is a danger to score on himself. He practically handed Figo a goal yesterday and it's lucky for him that Figo missed or he'd really have some oeuf on his visage today.

If the game comes down to goalkeeping, Italy wins. The back lines are a wash. France should win in the midfield more often than not and they've got the best striker in Henry. I'd expect Italy to play back and counterattack per usual. France might look to do a bit of the same, though Zidane's going to create some quality chances. Hopefully the French can score early and then Italy will have to come out of its shell.

reds1869
07-06-2006, 04:06 PM
Except then the game would have ground to a halt. By ignoring it, the ref marginalized the behavior. I hate flopping, but when it amounts to nothing it goes from horribly annoying to kind of funny.

Initially, perhaps. But eventually players would get the message and the need for stoppages would diminish. This game would have ground to a halt, but under the laws of the game France has a legitimate right to complain (which they won't because they are classy). As I see it, Portugal should have had very few players left on the field at the end of the game. For that matter half their squad should have been suspended for diving.

WMR
07-08-2006, 04:12 PM
Christiano Ronaldo has not only not won any fans with his antics this World Cup, he has turned just about every fan in the world not from Portugal against him.

His diving is disgusting to watch.

Rest assured his performance this WC will stick with him for EPL seasons to come as well as Champions Leagues and other International (club and country) competitions.

His reputation is now secured.

WMR
07-08-2006, 04:14 PM
He will also miss out on some calls when he actually *is* fouled b/c his reputation as a diver is now so obviously identified. The refs clearly look at any contact involving Christiano Ronaldo in a different light than contact with other players, as they rightly should.

ochre
07-08-2006, 04:22 PM
Which is kind of funny, because he had to miss a significant amount of time in one game due to a legitimately hard foul. I don't remember him diving all that much before that ( I don't see a ton of soccer though, so maybe he did ). Maybe he's gunshy now?

WMR
07-08-2006, 04:27 PM
While that may play a part, he's always had a reputation in the EPL as a diver, but nothing secures reputation--whether deserved or not--like the World Cup.

Also, I think many teams and players known for diving saw the high amount of cards dished out early on by the refs and decided to 'go for the gusto,' so to speak. ;)

ochre
07-08-2006, 04:47 PM
Also, I think many teams and players known for diving saw the high amount of cards dished out early on by the refs and decided to 'go for the gusto,' so to speak. ;)
That's kind of where I was coming from on that post. It's like he figured he paid his dues by actually getting hurt, etc.

WMR
07-08-2006, 05:41 PM
That's kind of where I was coming from on that post. It's like he figured he paid his dues by actually getting hurt, etc.

Mmmm, yeah, good reasoning; that makes sense.

Regardless, he's really done his career a disservice.

MWM
07-08-2006, 07:43 PM
Cristiano Ronaldo was one of my least favorite players long before this World Cup. It might have somehting to do with the fact that he plays for ManUre, but he's always seemed like a primadonna who's a lot more flash than thunder. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but he's all about the glitz and glamour. I hate that in athletes.

MWM
07-08-2006, 07:44 PM
Wily MO, who is the Big Blue in your signature? It's not Hamilton High School is it?

WMR
07-08-2006, 10:17 PM
Wily MO, who is the Big Blue in your signature? It's not Hamilton High School is it?


http://www.enquirer.com/columns/daugherty/1998/03/judd_300x500.jpg


http://www.ukhockey.com/images/posters/ashley_judd.jpg


http://www.oldsocks.co.uk/pictures/Ashley%20Judd/Ashley%20Judd_17.jpg


LMAO, any questions? BTW, is Hamilton High School in Cincy?





p.s. you're welcome :evil: :laugh: :beerme:

MWM
07-08-2006, 10:25 PM
It's an old primarily factory town about 30 miles northwest of Cincy and they've never really had a mascot, it was always just Hamilton Big Blue (although I think they might have changed that recently). Over the past decade they've had what I believe to be the best overall baseball program in the city and maybe even the state. I was from the town next door and we've always been big rivals (although when I was in school we dominated them :) ). I was born there and I think Cedric is from there as well as Kitty.

And I'm still a little confused. Does Big Blue stand for Ashley Judd of for UK? If it's Judd, then that's fine. If it's UK, I'd like any positive rep I've ever given you back and any compliment I might have ever paid you and we can no longer be friends. :evil:

reds1869
07-08-2006, 10:33 PM
My father-in-law desperately wants that hockey poster. And the girl on it, of course. :)

M2
07-08-2006, 11:37 PM
The University of Kentucky has a hockey team?

Apparently so do Louisville, Vanderbilt and UT.

Are they club teams or affiliated with something outside the NCAA?

WMR
07-09-2006, 09:34 AM
It's an old primarily factory town about 30 miles northwest of Cincy and they've never really had a mascot, it was always just Hamilton Big Blue (although I think they might have changed that recently). Over the past decade they've had what I believe to be the best overall baseball program in the city and maybe even the state. I was from the town next door and we've always been big rivals (although when I was in school we dominated them :) ). I was born there and I think Cedric is from there as well as Kitty.

And I'm still a little confused. Does Big Blue stand for Ashley Judd of for UK? If it's Judd, then that's fine. If it's UK, I'd like any positive rep I've ever given you back and any compliment I might have ever paid you and we can no longer be friends. :evil:

Sic 'em, Blimpie!!!!!!!! ;)






Although I must admit that no one calls a time-out quite like your boy...
http://static.flickr.com/27/93628583_d301537c0f_m.jpg

MWM
07-09-2006, 11:29 AM
My Michigan logo is for academics, not sports (I'm an alum). I don't think you want to go there with UK. :evil:

RFS62
07-09-2006, 11:42 AM
My Michigan logo is for academics, not sports (I'm an alum). I don't think you want to go there with UK. :evil:



It appears that he ain't a member of your constituency

westofyou
07-09-2006, 11:43 AM
Although I must admit that no one calls a time-out quite like your boy...

Yawnn..... at least our coach didn't punch a player eh?

WMR
07-09-2006, 11:45 AM
My Michigan logo is for academics, not sports (I'm an alum). I don't think you want to go there with UK. :evil:


LMAO, academics??? That's a four letter word. ;) :laugh: :evil:

what's your educational 'story'? Did you go to Meeechigan for undergrad or grad? Their graduate schools are great, for sure.

I didn't realize the level of hatred for Michigan fans by a lot of Ohioans b/f I moved to Cleveland.

WMR
07-09-2006, 11:49 AM
Yawnn..... at least our coach didn't punch a player eh?

Is that a Woody Hayes reference?

(racking my brain trying to remember if Tubby's ever slugged anybody... quite a few of them could have used a smack the past few years LOL)

I'm not an Ohio State fan.

WMR
07-09-2006, 11:53 AM
It appears that he ain't a member of your constituency

If MWM is going to slam Kentucky's academics, the least he could do is not debo our grammatical style!

westofyou
07-09-2006, 11:55 AM
I'm not an Ohio State fan.

Oh... sorry.

Does Kentucky still play football?

WMR
07-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Oh... sorry.

Does Kentucky still play football?


What's your definition of 'play'?

I can confirm that we still field a team!! :laugh:

westofyou
07-09-2006, 12:02 PM
What's your definition of 'play'?

I can confirm that we still field a team!! :laugh:
Now that's funny... Bear Bryant coached at Kentucky and stole their football mojo IIRC.

MWM
07-09-2006, 12:12 PM
LMAO, academics??? That's a four letter word. ;) :laugh: :evil:

what's your educational 'story'? Did you go to Meeechigan for undergrad or grad? Their graduate schools are great, for sure.

I didn't realize the level of hatred for Michigan fans by a lot of Ohioans b/f I moved to Cleveland.

Just finished grad school there a couple of months ago.

BTW, the quote in my sig is from one of RFS's favorite movies, I think.

WMR
07-09-2006, 12:15 PM
Now that's funny... Bear Bryant coached at Kentucky and stole their football mojo IIRC.

Yeah, it's weird, he knew he'd always be second fiddle to Adolph Rupp...

Basketball at UK is legendary but the flip side of that coin is that I think it's the primary reason that UK football has been so bad for so long (Bear Bryant is a perfect example). It's interesting, tolerance for the UK football program's ineptitude is waning as the UK basketball team's struggles grow. I think there is a definite causal relationship there.

RFS62
07-09-2006, 12:18 PM
Just finished grad school there a couple of months ago.

BTW, the quote in my sig is from one of RFS's favorite movies, I think.



Yeah, here's me on the right, with GAC in the middle and RedsBaron on the left


http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/o_brother/PeteDelmarEverett.jpg

WMR
07-09-2006, 12:25 PM
Now hold up a sec RFS. In one thread you're Brad Pitt, in another you're George Clooney. Which is it?

NJReds
07-09-2006, 02:07 PM
Wow. Talk about dives. That was an Olympic level dive by France to "earn" a penalty shot.

captainmorgan07
07-09-2006, 02:15 PM
hey it got them a goal

NJReds
07-09-2006, 02:21 PM
hey it got them a goal

True.

Nice goal to tie by the Italians to tie this up. Quite a start to this final.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 03:12 PM
Well, they're even now, as France deserved a penalty there but didn't get one.

WMR
07-09-2006, 03:16 PM
Well, they're even now, as France deserved a penalty there but didn't get one.

Yep.

Ouch, losing Viera really hurts.

WMR
07-09-2006, 03:17 PM
Too bad France had to get scored on b/f they started playing again.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 03:21 PM
That offside was really, really close. I have to see the replay again.

guttle11
07-09-2006, 03:27 PM
Anyone who thinks soccer is boring needs to watch this game.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 03:33 PM
Another dive by the French side to draw a free kick. Big moment here.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 03:36 PM
Anyone who thinks soccer is boring needs to watch this game.

I agree with that. Very exciting.

I think a couple things about soccer that drive away the American audience is all of the diving, and how much control of the outcome the referee has.

Two things we're taught as young athletes is that when you're fouled/hit hard, walk it off; and that referees/umps should never decide the outcome.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 03:43 PM
I really hope this doesn't end in penalties.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 04:09 PM
Amazing save by Buffon. But France has been the better team today.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 04:18 PM
Zidane red carded. He's out and rightly so. What a cheap shot. Wow. I hardly expected that from him. Classless.

Good riddance, Zizoo.

WMR
07-09-2006, 04:19 PM
DAMN! That might be the most hardcore head-butt I've EVER seen, WWF included!

Zidane shown the Red. Unfortunate end for Zidane.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 04:20 PM
DAMN! That might be the most hardcore head-butt I've EVER seen, WWF included!


No dive there. That was one of the strangest things I've ever seen (or that I can recall). So late in the game...his last game at that???

WMR
07-09-2006, 04:32 PM
No dive there. That was one of the strangest things I've ever seen (or that I can recall). So late in the game...his last game at that???

Yeah seriously. It looked like they had some words... Zidane starts to walk away... the Italian player continues to jaw at him... Zidane circles around him and plants his fore-head into the guy's chest

I really wonder what they were saying to one another.

WMR
07-09-2006, 04:49 PM
Italy wins on penalties 5-3.

Very sad and disappointing end for France and Zinedine Zidane.

RFS62
07-09-2006, 04:54 PM
Yeah seriously. It looked like they had some words... Zidane starts to walk away... the Italian player continues to jaw at him... Zidane circles around him and plants his fore-head into the guy's chest

I really wonder what they were saying to one another.


This just in....... Zidane, in an amazing interview with ESPN's crack investigative reporter Pedro Gomez, admits that he was taunted into his sissy head butt which brought the red card and national disgrace to his team.

"He called me a Jim Edmonds flopper!!!!!!" exclaimed Zidane. "What else could I do?"

captainmorgan07
07-09-2006, 04:54 PM
zidane might just be remembered for those 2 hearers in the 98 world cup he won and the header he throw at the italian player to get him thrown out

Caveat Emperor
07-09-2006, 05:22 PM
Italy wins on penalties 5-3.

Very sad and disappointing end for France and Zinedine Zidane.

Especially considering that it meant Zidane wasn't available to take one of France's PKs.

He really hurt his side with a stupid and selfish play.

M2
07-09-2006, 05:23 PM
Sad to see Zidane go out like that, but it's easily the best in-game headbutt I've ever seen delivered, regardless of the sport. Materazzi's lucky he didn't get his ribs cracked.

As for the game, I'm guessing the Italians could have shot all day and Barthez couldn't have stopped them. The game was won when the French fell asleep for 12 minutes after that first goal. Outside of that brief spell, France completely dominated them.

reds1869
07-09-2006, 05:27 PM
What a sad end for Zizou. I've always admired him, but that admiration vanished in one moment. Not only was the head butt classless, but it may have cost his country the biggest prize in sports. A shameful end to a brilliant international career.

RANDY IN INDY
07-09-2006, 05:44 PM
France loses!:jump: :rockband: :usa:

M2
07-09-2006, 06:14 PM
France loses!:jump: :rockband: :usa:

And a team that got outplayed for almost 120 solid minutes won.

I guess if your rooting interest is tied up with the whole great French/freedom fries debate rather than on the game they're playing then that's a good thing, but I'd have rather seen the team that dominated play take the Cup. Italy's probably going down in history as one of the worst teams ever to win the Cup. In fact, I can't think of a less inspiring team that's won the whole thing off the top of my head.

WMR
07-09-2006, 06:32 PM
And a team that got outplayed for almost 120 solid minutes won.

I guess if your rooting interest is tied up with the whole great French/freedom fries debate rather than on the game they're playing then that's a good thing, but I'd have rather seen the team that dominated play take the Cup. Italy's probably going down in history as one of the worst teams ever to win the Cup. In fact, I can't think of a less inspiring team that's won the whole thing off the top of my head.

Well said.

Caveat Emperor
07-09-2006, 06:50 PM
I guess if your rooting interest is tied up with the whole great French/freedom fries debate rather than on the game they're playing then that's a good thing.

Wait a minute...

If all things "French" are now "Freedom" -- as in Freedom Fries, Freedom Toast, and Stouffers Freedom Bread Pizza -- then that means Team Freedom lost today.

And, if Freedom lost, that means the Terrorists must have won...Therefore if Italy was the winning team, and since we know the defeat of Freedom means a Terrorists victory, that means Italy is a terrorist nation.

It all seems so clear now.

westofyou
07-09-2006, 06:56 PM
And a team that got outplayed for almost 120 solid minutes won.

I guess if your rooting interest is tied up with the whole great French/freedom fries debate rather than on the game they're playing then that's a good thing, but I'd have rather seen the team that dominated play take the Cup. Italy's probably going down in history as one of the worst teams ever to win the Cup. In fact, I can't think of a less inspiring team that's won the whole thing off the top of my head.
Yep, games like the WC provide should be about the game first and jingoism second.... and we all know that they both are running neck and neck at the WC.

As a player and a fan of the game I leave the jingoism for others, give me a 40 yard run or a set play outside the box, it's really something far more beautiful then the TV could ever portray.

captainmorgan07
07-09-2006, 06:57 PM
this is not zidane's first head butting incident he was sent off a number of years ago when he played for a club team in italy for headbutting another player

reds1869
07-09-2006, 08:07 PM
this is not zidane's first head butting incident he was sent off a number of years ago when he played for a club team in italy for headbutting another player


True enough. But doing it on this stage is very, very stupid.

Betterread
07-09-2006, 08:23 PM
this is not zidane's first head butting incident he was sent off a number of years ago when he played for a club team in italy for headbutting another player

Great win for Italy and great honor to the Italian squad. In particular, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso and Grosso had fantastic performances. You have to say Materazzi was the deus ex-machina of the match. He committed the foul leading to France's penaly, he scored the tying goal, and he was involved in the situation that got Zidane sent off. Who needs Nesta's skills and ability when you can replace him with Materazzi - Mr. Drama. France was a dangerous opponent, with Henry and Malouda the most menacing. I was unfamiliar with Malouda before the tournament - he not only was fast and confident, but he showed determination and heart as well. The glorious win was marred by Zidane's senseless and despicable head-butt. I still think he is the player of the decade (1996-2006) but this violent act was bad.
Here is some of Zidane's history with violent behavior:
Eight years ago, Zidane was red-carded for stomping on an opponent while playing Saudi Arabia. Five years ago, Zidane was also red-carded for head-butting Jochen Kientz in a Champions League match for Juventus against Hamburger SV.

RANDY IN INDY
07-09-2006, 08:30 PM
I'm glad Italy won. Zidane seemed like a thug to me. Sorry, not a fan of France.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 08:37 PM
I thought Italy had the better of the play in the first half, and just missed the second goal when Toni hit the post. France carried the play in the second half and overtime, but even though Henri had many magnificent runs, he didn't get much support from his teammates.

I hate penalties as a way to decide a championship, but Italy made 5-of-5 to capture the trophy. Zidane was a classless bufoon, as was his coach for defending his actions and blaming Materazzi.

It was far from a perfect World Cup, but Germany wasn't inspiring in 1990; Brazil was underwhelming in 1994. It happens.

Rojo
07-09-2006, 08:53 PM
What if they mandated that both teams worst players have to play the second half? Dumb idea. I agree, so why don't they allow more substitutions so that we aren't watching thoroughly exhausted superstars pantomining a soccer game.

NJReds
07-09-2006, 09:17 PM
What if they mandated that both teams worst players have to play the second half? Dumb idea. I agree, so why don't they allow more substitutions so that we aren't watching thoroughly exhausted superstars pantomining a soccer game.

I agree. They should allow a couple more subs.

Cedric
07-09-2006, 09:27 PM
I thought it was an interesting game and a deserving champion. Worn down a bit from the Germany game but still controlled a lot of the first half play.

PK's aren't fun, but gotta end it somehow.

Neither team really had great looks at the goal, just formidable defenses.

Yachtzee
07-09-2006, 10:00 PM
What I'd like to know is, what was going on earlier in the game that made Zidane flip his lid? I don't know Zidane's history that well, but I have to wonder if the head-butt had to do with more than what was said at that moment. Has Zidane had issues with Materazzi in the past?