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View Full Version : This Team Has a Plane To Catch....On Sept. 30th...



Edskin
06-19-2007, 08:52 AM
The Reds stink. We know that. No amount of yelling, clubhouse tirades, water jug tossing, or players' only meetings would make much of a difference. They stink because they stink, period.

However, I believe that one of the reasons this Reds team is so very difficult to watch (in addition to the stinkiness) is because this team appears to have mailed it in.

Again, I'm not talking about fist-pumping or rally speeches here. I'm talking about hard slides into second, quality at-bats, brush back pitches, etc...

There was a sequence last night that was about as pathetic as it gets, IMO.

Tied 1-1, Lohse begins his nightly implosion. Bases loaded, no outs. At first, it appears he may escape with minimal damage. Then, it gets worse. Then, he totally loses his concentration. Before you know it, the score is 6-1 and the A's have men on first and second. During this whole fiasco, there are no visists to the mound-- not from the dugout or the field. Narron finally makes a move when it's far too late. It's as if it was scripted.

Then, in the next inning, Brandon Phillips come to the plate with 2 on and 2 out. He proceeds to have one of the ugliest, most pathetic at bats I've ever seen. Three pitches out of the zone (two in the dirt) and he takes three miserable hacks. Even had the ball been down broadway, Phillips would have been lucky to hit it back to the mound with those efforts.

Seems to me, there is a total lack of concentration on this team. I really can't say I see anyone going the extra mile and really digging in right now. We're the worst team in baseball, and everyone seems pretty blase' about it.

Firing Narron won't turn this season around. Too late for that. But I wouldn't mind seeing someone come in and lay down the law on HOW the Reds are going to play the game. Because right now, I don't think they are playing the right way.

MrCinatit
06-19-2007, 09:03 AM
I agree - there is absolutely, totally no hope for the team in the future.
That said, there are some parts of the club which could be good for the future. And the problem with some of the symptoms that you have described is that they can be contagious - especially on impressionable young ballplayers.
This team needs someone to teach the youngsters that, not only is losing not acceptable, but it should be painful. Yes, I know all of the "its a long season" jazz - but the difference between the great and the mediocre is that the great treat every play as if it is the most important play of the game - whether the score is 1-0 or 6-0. In all honesty, how many players do you think we have like that on this version of the Reds?
Unfortunately, IMHO, Jerry Narron is not the man to teach them to hate losing.

westofyou
06-19-2007, 09:35 AM
Then, in the next inning, Brandon Phillips come to the plate with 2 on and 2 out. He proceeds to have one of the ugliest, most pathetic at bats I've ever seen. Three pitches out of the zone (two in the dirt) and he takes three miserable hacks. Even had the ball been down broadway, Phillips would have been lucky to hit it back to the mound with those efforts.

Agreed, that was an ugly at bat, but that's his style.... now why was he batting cleanup?

Anyone, anyone... Bulller...

Edskin
06-19-2007, 09:37 AM
WOY-- No doubt, it's just Narron further proving his ignorance. The entire "breaking up lefties" thing is laughable at this point.

macro
06-19-2007, 10:44 AM
Two or three years ago, somone (I forget who) had this for a signature: "Smells like 1982". I can't say how many times I've thought of that line since then, and it applies very well this year. In fact, at its current pace, the team is projected to go 61-101. Look familiar?

CrackerJack
06-19-2007, 10:51 AM
They have to get rid of Narron - but of course doing it now is just repeating the cycle they've been in the last several years.

They'll put Bucky in the interim job, he'll win some games in August, and they'll give him a one year extension as a result...then he stinks next season and we got through it yet again (Boone, Miley, Narron, Dent...next).

I assume the painfully patient Krivsky understands this hopefully, and will just wait til the offseason, to find the right guy and give him time to assemble a staff...hell maybe spend a little $ to get the right guy this time, for once.

And of course as far as player trades, after last year's debacle, I assume Krivsky is in once bitten, twice shy mode, and is in no hurry to improve a team that is going nowhere this season.

All that said, not sure why this team is "this" bad, and also have to put a lot of blame on the GM, who over-looked some major holes and decided to trade some good young players for washed-up guys that have made absolutely no difference whatsoever, as expected by most fans.

Meanwhile you can tell the grandkids that you watched one of the worst MLB managers of all-time, manage the Reds for a couple of years.

westofyou
06-19-2007, 10:53 AM
and they'll give him a one year extension as a result...

No way, Narron chose Bucky.

Krivsky has been in the game long enough to probably have his own stable of managerial types he wants to turn loose on the game. or Cast will want something with more cache.

But Bucky Dent?

I can't see it.

Strikes Out Looking
06-19-2007, 10:55 AM
Meanwhile you can tell the grandkids that you watched one of the worst MLB managers of all-time, manage the Reds for a couple of years.

Actually, we can tell the grandkids we saw a few of the worst all time managers at the helm of the Reds. Narron, Boone and Knight come instantly to mind. (I think Miley was overwhelmed at the big league level).

Of course we've seen some of the best, Sparky, Lou and Davey come to mind.

dabvu2498
06-19-2007, 10:56 AM
No way, Narron chose Bucky.

Krivsky has been in the game long enough to probably have his own stable of managerial types he wants to turn loose on the game. or Cast will want something with more cache.

But Bucky Dent?

I can't see it.

The path of least resistance...

Bucky's "firey" isn't he?

deltachi8
06-19-2007, 10:56 AM
Agreed, that was an ugly at bat, but that's his style.... now why was he batting cleanup?

Anyone, anyone... Bulller...

Something d-o-o line up construction.... voo-doo lineup construction...

Big Klu
06-19-2007, 11:03 AM
The path of least resistance...

Bucky's "firey" isn't he?

Bucky Dent has never struck me as the fiery type. I've always seen him as the professorial type--a "teacher/mentor", which is why he has had some success as a minor-league manager.

Just because you played for Billy Martin and with Lou Piniella doesn't automatically make you "fiery". :)

bucksfan2
06-19-2007, 11:15 AM
This team has mailed it in already. It almost looks as if each player is playing for personal stats instead of for the team. The problem is that this has been consistant the entire time Narron has been here. Last year down the stretch the reds had a chance to go to the playoffs yet they mailed it in. The reds hit a bump in the road earlier this year and have let it spiral down towards being the worst team in all of baseball. Not to mention the fact that .500 baseball may win this division this year. Its a shame because this team has the talent to contend with the other division foes and they also have Jr's chase for 600, this could have been a fun baseball season in Cincinnati.

Chip R
06-19-2007, 11:23 AM
Bucky's "firey" isn't he?


Is that what the "F" stands for? ;)

BuckeyeRedleg
06-19-2007, 11:25 AM
Something d-o-o line up construction.... voo-doo lineup construction...

Well played.

Ltlabner
06-19-2007, 11:39 AM
People generally rise to the level of the expectations communicted to them, whether direct or implied (to the limits of their tallent). the Reds are mired in medocraty and low expectations and the players are responding in kind.


I just hope real and significant changes are made before the younger, tallented players pick up bad habits from the 'culture of crappyness'.

gonelong
06-19-2007, 12:00 PM
People generally rise to the level of the expectations communicted to them, whether direct or implied (to the limits of their tallent). the Reds are mired in medocraty and low expectations and the players are responding in kind.

I just hope real and significant changes are made before the younger, tallented players pick up bad habits from the 'culture of crappyness'.

Agreed. I think the Reds need darn near a complete roster turn-over. I'd probably keep Encarnacion, Phillips, Hamilton, Arroyo, and Harang unless I got an amazing offer for them, and be willing to move pretty much everyone else.

GL

M2
06-19-2007, 12:05 PM
Two or three years ago, somone (I forget who) had this for a signature: "Smells like 1982". I can't say how many times I've thought of that line since then, and it applies very well this year. In fact, at its current pace, the team is projected to go 61-101. Look familiar?

That was my baby. It's a shame that four years later this club is still awful. Four years after 1982, the Reds were a contender.

KronoRed
06-19-2007, 12:24 PM
Agreed, that was an ugly at bat, but that's his style.... now why was he batting cleanup?

Anyone, anyone... Bulller...

Can't have those left handers batting in a row, it would cause the sun to explode.

What's funny is Narron had them back to back all weekend and they did well, then he goes back to same ole same ole.

KronoRed
06-19-2007, 12:24 PM
Something d-o-o line up construction.... voo-doo lineup construction...

:clap:

creek14
06-19-2007, 12:59 PM
Maybe Dick Pole should be the manager. In addition to the plethora of great jokes we would hear on talk radio, Sportscenter and here, I have seen him get real fired up - I've even seen him throw stuff in the dugout.

An angry Dick Pole could put the fear of God into some of these guys.

Redsland
06-19-2007, 01:19 PM
Does Dick Pole get spitting mad?

Does he shoot from the hip?

Does he get all up in your face?

:)

westofyou
06-19-2007, 01:22 PM
Does Dick Pole get spitting mad?

Does he shoot from the hip?

Does he get all up in your face?

:)

Are you trying to get a rise out of us with that stuff?

You're being kind of pointed about your intention, unless I'm just expanding too much on some innocent remarks.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-19-2007, 01:28 PM
:clap:

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Jerry Narron filling out a lineup card and then pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

BCubb2003
06-19-2007, 02:19 PM
Mailing it in is probably harder to define than the elusive "clutch." Swinging wildly might be the opposite of mailing it in.

Bear with me, this is a less-random thought than usual.

It's easy for us fans to question a player's wanting to win, even though we have no real evidence to go on. There are exceptional cases where the problem was obvious: "Operation Shutdown" threats by Derek Bell, Gary Sheffield and even Randy Johnson. Even fans have been known to root for a bad outing to force a move for the long term.

But given the choice, nearly every player wants to win. Some want to win and don't know how. Some want to win in the worst way -- or at least the least effective way. Their wanting to win is full of sound and mustard -- but not much else.

We're actually talking about wanting to do what it takes to win. And we haven't defined that. Is it extra batting practice? Running into walls? Leaving the nightclub early? Failing less often in close-and-late situations? It's probably different for every player and fan.

What if one of baseball's most cherished cliches actually saps the will to win? For many teams, the pennant race goes from "If everything goes right" to "It's early" to "Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint." Yeah but dude, you're face down in the road with cleat marks on your back.

The failure rate in baseball also saps the will to win. The best hitters in the history of the game trudged back to the bench more than half the time, telling themselves it was OK. The best winning percentage of any season in modern baseball means more than a solid month of losing. The best players and teams just fail less often.

But you want a player whose head is always in the game, who's trying right this minute to win this at-bat, this inning, this game, this series. But if you've said, "It's a marathon, not a sprint," too many times, it has an effect on you.

TheBurn
06-19-2007, 02:23 PM
There's a lot of web-talk of Davey Johnson possibly going back to the O's.
Any chances of getting him to come back to the Reds next year instead?

Edskin
06-19-2007, 02:28 PM
BCubb--

Good post. It is certainly nearly impossible to actually define "mailing it in." However, the Reds are on pace to lose 20 more games than they did last year. I'm not sure we've had a roster depletion that should equal 20 games. Therefore, I think there is at least a little something "extra" happening here.

Like I said, I don't need to see beanballs, tirades, or base-tossing (although that would be nice on occasion). I'd like to see more of the "grit" that comes with hard slides, sprinting out grounders, etc...

This may sound archaic, but when a team is underachieving as I believe the Reds are doing this year, I think the team should be playing with some "fear."

red-in-la
06-19-2007, 02:28 PM
No way, Narron chose Bucky.

Krivsky has been in the game long enough to probably have his own stable of managerial types he wants to turn loose on the game. or Cast will want something with more cache.

But Bucky Dent?

I can't see it.

I agree.....Krivsky clearly goes his own way. Perlazzo is free....:laugh: