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REDREAD
06-20-2007, 09:50 PM
Ok.. here's my annual attempt to make a realistic deadline trade proposal. Would you do this one:

Reds trade to Cleveland: Harang, Weathers.

Indians give back: Sowers, Brian Barton (http://indians.scout.com/2/557055.html), Andy Marte, and Chuck Lofgren.

Why it works for Cleveland Cleveland gets a front line starter and bullpen help. Harang turns that team into a monster. Sure, they are paying a steep price, but Harang is probably better than the disappointing Sowers will ever be, and the Indians time to compete is now, with Hafner and Sabathia close to Free Agency (I think this is their last year). They might balk at giving up both Sowers and Lofgren. Any other suggestions from someone who knows the Indians better than I do?

Why it works for Cincy: The Reds have plenty of time to let Sowers mature in a low pressure situation. Hopefully he becomes an ace like Harang.

Barton is an amazingly athletic CF who has shown good OBP skills at AA.

Marte is a former blue chip prospect that has fallen out of favor with Clevelend, who may do better with a change of scenery. Even though the Reds really don't need another 3b, he might be an easy player to get Cleveland to add. Cincy has time to let him develop.

Lofgren is the Indian's second best prospect. He entered the year as one of the top lefty pitching prospects in the game. He's at AAA now at 21 years old.

Summary Harang is the Reds best asset. It would be a shame to see him go, but he's probably the only player that could be traded to give this team a shot of notable talent. I question whether Dunn and Jr are going to be worth much on the market. We probably finish at or near the basement for the next 3 years with or without Harang, sadly... :(

RedEye
06-20-2007, 10:35 PM
Maybe I'm just in denial, but this trade would be underestimating how close the Reds might actually be to contending. While I like some of the return you propose, Harang is our best pitcher and I think he's someone we need to build around, not cash in for prospects. Barton is a nice player, but Sowers and Marte are pretty close to being never-were's IMO. Don't know much about Lofgren.

red-in-la
06-20-2007, 10:39 PM
I would say that I was NOT impressed by Sowers the other night.

BTW, I saw a few innings of the debute of the Brewers newest starter.....WOW. Why can't the Reds ever draft a kid like that?

Patrick Bateman
06-20-2007, 11:05 PM
A trade of Harang starts with a pitcher like Phillip Hughes. And contains a lot more. His DIPS ERA remains in the low 3's pitching in a bandbox and is signed for 3 more years, plus an option. He has extensive trade value.

Sowers looks, at best, like a back of the rotation starter.

camisadelgolf
06-20-2007, 11:07 PM
The trade is fairly plausible, and like any trade a fan thinks of, it will never happen. In this case, it can't happen because the Reds are trying so hard to do the, "We want to compete now!" attitude. That aside, I just don't like the idea of giving up Harang at all. I mean, he's proven what he can do, and he's built like he can do it for a long time. Starting pitching is so important, and although the Reds would be receiving a lot of talent, we're in a day and age when a guaranteed solid starter is nearly priceless.

schroomytunes
06-20-2007, 11:30 PM
No way can we afford to trade Harang, he is a legit #2 starter workhorse guy. If we are to trade a pitcher out of the rotation it has to be Lohse. We may move Arroyo but right now his return would be below market due to his stats. I think in any pennant race teams wait till the last minute to decide what to do and then they overbid for players. If I'm Krivsky yeah I would be dialing up Clevelands # and proposing a trade with them. They seem to have young prospects with really no place on the parent team right now, cause they are loaded at the major league level. So here is my trade proposal with the Tribe:

Reds trade:
1)David Weathers-the tribe gets a guy that can be a back of the bullpen guy that is having a good year.
2)Kyle Lohse-they get a #5 starter, or a long reliever for the stretch run that can provide more depth, and is due only 2 million after the break.

Indians trade:
1)Kelly Shoppach-the Reds get a young catcher that will split time with David Ross in 08, and allow us to rid ourselves of the 3 catchers.
2)a young bullpen arm out of their farm system, as we really need more depth

---why it works for both teams? The reds get a solid catcher that allows them to platoon more behind the plate and it lets them carry another OF/INF in 08. The Indians get the added pitching that will help them get deep into the postseason w/o giving up much in return.

RedsManRick
06-20-2007, 11:32 PM
Sowers will never be a productive major league starter. Stay far away.

LoganBuck
06-21-2007, 12:45 AM
No way can we afford to trade Harang, he is a legit #2 starter workhorse guy. If we are to trade a pitcher out of the rotation it has to be Lohse. We may move Arroyo but right now his return would be below market due to his stats. I think in any pennant race teams wait till the last minute to decide what to do and then they overbid for players. If I'm Krivsky yeah I would be dialing up Clevelands # and proposing a trade with them. They seem to have young prospects with really no place on the parent team right now, cause they are loaded at the major league level. So here is my trade proposal with the Tribe:

Reds trade:
1)David Weathers-the tribe gets a guy that can be a back of the bullpen guy that is having a good year.
2)Kyle Lohse-they get a #5 starter, or a long reliever for the stretch run that can provide more depth, and is due only 2 million after the break.

Indians trade:
1)Kelly Shoppach-the Reds get a young catcher that will split time with David Ross in 08, and allow us to rid ourselves of the 3 catchers.
2)a young bullpen arm out of their farm system, as we really need more depth

---why it works for both teams? The reds get a solid catcher that allows them to platoon more behind the plate and it lets them carry another OF/INF in 08. The Indians get the added pitching that will help them get deep into the postseason w/o giving up much in return.

David Weathers is worth alot more than that imo. Reliable setup men, are going for a premium these days.

schroomytunes
06-21-2007, 01:41 AM
Ok what about this deal with the Tribe?

Reds Trade:
Adam Dunn and David Weathers

Indians Trade:
1)Jason Michaels(OF)-he plays the LF spot until Votto takes over, and offsets some of the $$$ exchange.

2)Kelly Shoppach(C)-we need a catcher in the worst way, and he gives us a better platoon option with Ross.

3)Jeremy Sowers(SP,AAA)-he is having a down year, but he is young and maybe we can land him at the right time while his value is low. He can be a #4 or 5 back end of the rotation starter for years to come as he is only 24. I would prefer Adam Miller, but the tribe aint crazy! Thoughts.

KronoRed
06-21-2007, 01:44 AM
This team has the worst record in the NL, nobody should be untouchable, but a Harang deal better be bringing back a lot of "can't miss" guys

bucksfan2
06-21-2007, 09:11 AM
Harang for V. Martinez + Sowers probably would be the only trade I would do. Harang is a legit #2 starter in this league and has a good contract that locks him up for his productive years. If I even think about a trade I hold his value to what Florida got for Beckett.

Jaycint
06-21-2007, 09:17 AM
Harang is one of my few untouchables along with Bailey and Bruce, maybe Votto. If you are willing to trade Harang then ask yourself this: Do we want a shot in '08? '09? '10? Because if we have to replace a starter of Harang's caliber then we can pencil in 4th-6th place for that time frame.

For years we have needed solid pitching around here, we finally have a few pieces, we can't deal them. I would put forth that Harang (along with the assumed development of Bailey) may be our most important cog in competing in that '08-'10 time span.

Benihana
06-21-2007, 09:25 AM
I would not trade Harang. There is just no reason for it.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing the Reds go after Andy Marte and Kelly Shoppach. I wouldn't be surprised if they could be had on the cheap (not as cheap as BP, but close). Send Weathers and somebody else to them (Stubbs?) to see if they bite. Who knows- they did give us Phillips for nothing.

Lofgren would be nice, but I would also stay away from Sowers at this point.

jojo
06-21-2007, 12:10 PM
Harang for V. Martinez + Sowers probably would be the only trade I would do. Harang is a legit #2 starter in this league and has a good contract that locks him up for his productive years. If I even think about a trade I hold his value to what Florida got for Beckett.

I don't think the Indians would go for that though.

Jaycint
06-21-2007, 12:23 PM
I don't think the Indians would go for that though.

Me neither. That's a strange case of the value probably being close to equal but both teams feeling like they got the short end of the deal.

bucksfan2
06-21-2007, 02:34 PM
I don't think the Indians would go for that though.

Neither do I but I would venture that Harang has the most value out of any reds player. He has a proven track record (leading the NL in wins and k's last year) and is locked up in a very friendly contract for the next 4-5 years. If they trade Harang (which I think may be one of the dumbest moves the franchise could make) they need to take the cake on any return. The reds havn't had a pitcher as good as Harang since probably Soto and I cant remember the last time they had a combo with as much potential as Harang and Bailey.

red-in-la
06-21-2007, 02:50 PM
I agree. Harang is supposed to have flawless mechanics. He is signed long term and should be very durable. You trade that away and you are nuts.

jojo
06-21-2007, 03:28 PM
I would venture that Harang has the most value out of any reds player.

I agree about Harang. But catchers who can do this: .317/.373/.526, while being locked up for several years (currently making $3M) are rarer than Harang. His defense, which has always been a knock against him, is improving too as he's dedicated himself to getting better.

REDREAD
06-23-2007, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback.. The problem I see with the Reds is that Harang is the only player we have that will bring back a boatload of nice young players.
Dunn should bring back nice a return, but not enough to revitalize the team.

I also think the Reds might have to target players like Sowers, Marte, etc who have had great minor league success, yet have stumbled in the big leagues. One of the young pitchers in the Indians rotation, Carmona, struggled a lot at first, but now has put it together. Last year, it didn't look like he'd amount to much. Heck, Harang didn't burst on to the ML scene with a bang either. The problem is that no team will trade away a "Can't miss" guy like Homer, Hughes, unless his luster fades a little bit. Heck, last year, Sowers was pitching great, and there was no way he'd be available.

In any event, we've got a big mess. I'd be open to trading Harang in the right deal, because I doubt we are going to be a decent team any time soon.