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D-Man
06-21-2007, 02:55 PM
Per Stark's latest column:


The Yankees continue to hunt for a first baseman. The latest rumored name on their shopping list: The Reds' Scott Hatteberg

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2910803

Stark also says no way a Griffey-to-ATL deal will happen.

Hatteberg paired with Weathers might bring a nice return from the Yanks. . . It appears that the Reds have been scouting Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Brett Gardner in Trenton (see note from earlier this week below). I'd appreciate any info on these prospects.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/06/healeys_latest.html

"The Reds, Rockies, and others have been scouting the Yankees' Double A Trenton affiliate. Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Brett Gardner are probably the most desirable players on that roster. Gotham Baseball has previously connected the Yankees to Brian Fuentes and David Weathers. Another reliever the Yankees like is Chad Bradford, though the O's price may be too high."

blumj
06-21-2007, 02:57 PM
I don't think there's any way they'd trade Chamberlain or Kennedy for Hatteberg.

Cedric
06-21-2007, 02:59 PM
Maybe we can get Claussen from them.

flyer85
06-21-2007, 03:01 PM
Maybe we can get Claussen from them.... a pickle? :laugh:

I can't imagine the Yanks dealing either one of those guys even for a Hatty/Stormy combo.

Jaycint
06-21-2007, 03:04 PM
I don't think there's any way they'd trade Chamberlain or Kennedy for Hatteberg.

I'm not so sure, about Kennedy at least. I think Hatteberg for Kennedy wouldn't make Cashman hang up the phone. They probably definitely want more for Joba though. I'd give em Weathers and Hatteberg for Joba.

smith288
06-21-2007, 03:05 PM
Ill be the first Reds fan to say "Joba the hut"....

Red Leader
06-21-2007, 03:06 PM
I'm not so sure, about Kennedy at least. I think Hatteberg for Kennedy wouldn't make Cashman hang up the phone. They probably definitely want more for Joba though. I'd give em Weathers and Hatteberg for Joba.

I think you could get more for Hatteberg and Weathers than just Joba by himself. I think trading those two would net you another prospect. Probably not a Top 10 prospect in their organization, but maybe a Top 20.

I like Betances more than Joba personally.

bucksfan2
06-21-2007, 03:09 PM
I think people are undervaluing the reds. The reds have the advantage here becuase the contending teams need a certain peice/pieces. Therefor they would get more in return for what they are trading. When teams trade for a position of need they need to give more to get what they want.

flyer85
06-21-2007, 03:12 PM
I think people are undervaluing the reds. The reds have the advantage here becuase the contending teams need a certain peice/pieces.

only if

a) there aren't other viable options out there
or
b) a number of teams are interested in said player

Jaycint
06-21-2007, 03:12 PM
I think you could get more for Hatteberg and Weathers than just Joba by himself. I think trading those two would net you another prospect. Probably not a Top 10 prospect in their organization, but maybe a Top 20.

I like Betances more than Joba personally.

Yeah it would be nice to snag an extra body in the deal if we could, just sayin if it came right down to it I'd pull the trigger on the 2 for 1 for Joba.

I love Betances reportoire but his mechanics scare me a bit, especially at his age. I still would be happy to have him in the system though, no argument there.

D-Man
06-21-2007, 03:19 PM
Joba has been pitcher of the week three times this year. He's totally dominated throughout his minor league career, actually. Here's a nice review of Joba:


What really sticks out is Chamberlain’s phenomenal 4/1 strikeout to walk ratio. He’s also has a large frame that – despite the concerns with arm injuries – could log 180-200 innings a season. . .

Strengths: A plus fastball with plus-plus control. An above-average slider he throws as an out pitch, and two average to above-average pitches that accompanied with the fastball look better than they are. Chamberlain has no trouble finding the zone, and rarely offers freebees to first. Has good character and has managed to excel despite the stresses of being over weight and a very young father. Has looked lean since his final season at Nebraska.

Weaknesses: Has had a weight problem in the past. Was reportedly at or above 290 pounds early in his career. Right triceps tendonitis that some fear could resurface. While Chamberlain has very good command and control on his pitches, his change up has little movement and can stay up in the zone at times. Slider has a tendency to role into a slurve.

MLB Comparisons: C.C. Sabathia is the obvious choice here. Similar body type and size. Both have a quiver full of fastball/change/curve/slider with above-average to plus command on all four pitches.

http://www.projectprospect.com/profile-joba-chamberlain/

Gardner strikes me as a high-OBP and good speed OFer, with little power at this point. His OBP was .433 last year in Tampa, and has dipped to .363 this year. He hits lefthanded.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Brett%2520Gardner&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458731

Kennedy was FSL player of the month in May. Another outstanding track record.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Ian%2520Kennedy&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453178

NJReds
06-21-2007, 03:19 PM
Conine or Hatteberg would be a perfect fit for the Yankees. They have Phelps and Cairo playing 1st base now.

BRM
06-21-2007, 03:21 PM
Conine or Hatteberg would be a perfect fit for the Yankees. They have Phelps and Cairo playing 1st base now.

Andy Phillips started at 1B last night. They could use an upgrade there, that's for sure.

NJReds
06-21-2007, 03:22 PM
I didn't see that they called Phillips up. He's probably better than both Phelps and Cairo.

Heath
06-21-2007, 03:23 PM
I thought Conine was on someones' radar as well?

Yachtzee
06-21-2007, 03:24 PM
Maybe we can get Claussen from them.

Ed Yarnell and Drew Henson are available.

Cyclone792
06-21-2007, 03:26 PM
Not that I take much stock in trade rumors, but at least this one is exponentially better for the Reds than the Dunn/Padres trade rumor from a few days ago.

One side-effect with the Yankees being interested in Hatteberg and possibly acquiring Hatteberg is it means they may not be involved in the Dunn sweepstakes themselves. That can be good or bad, depending on one's viewpoint on a possible Dunn trade.

blumj
06-21-2007, 03:28 PM
I didn't see that they called Phillips up. He's probably better than both Phelps and Cairo.
They DFA'd Phelps. He's as bad at 1B as Giambi, if not actually worse. They could definitely do better, but I suppose they might still wind up playing Damon at 1B if he ever gets healthy enough.

Benihana
06-21-2007, 03:28 PM
Weathers/Hat for Joba? DONE!

The Braves may have a passing interest in Conine to platoon with Thorman at 1B. Hatteberg needed to be traded yesterday. Bring up Votto now!

Cyclone792
06-21-2007, 03:39 PM
Here's the Griffey section from that Stark article that caught my eye ...


Here's one more often-rumored deal you can forget: Junior Griffey to Atlanta. The Braves are focused on pitching, not bats. And they've been telling teams they're not interested in dealing prospects for players who have big bucks due beyond this year. Well, Griffey has $12.5 million guaranteed for next year, plus a $16.5 million club option for 2009 -- and he has made some noises he'd want that option picked up before he OK'd any trades. So never mind.

If Griffey is going to require that 2009 option to be picked up for him to OK any trade, then I have a hard time believing the Reds will be moving him this season. That'd be a $30 million price tag some other team would have to be willing to pick up, and right now I just don't see that happening.

Benihana
06-21-2007, 03:41 PM
Here's the Griffey section from that Stark article that caught my eye ...



If Griffey is going to require that 2009 option to be picked up for him to OK any trade, then I have a hard time believing the Reds will be moving him this season. That'd be a $30 million price tag some other team would have to be willing to pick up, and right now I just don't see that happening.

Sounds like the Bravos might be a great destination for Kyle Lohse. What could we possibly get back for him?

NJReds
06-21-2007, 03:46 PM
One side-effect with the Yankees being interested in Hatteberg and possibly acquiring Hatteberg is it means they may not be involved in the Dunn sweepstakes themselves. That can be good or bad, depending on one's viewpoint on a possible Dunn trade.

I don't see the Yankees getting involved in the Dunn sweepstakes. I'd be surprised if more than two or three teams show serious interest.

Team Clark
06-21-2007, 03:48 PM
If any trade were going to happen it would be this one. I'm not sure if the Yanks are going to give up a lot but with Giambi and Mientkiwicz out for a long time Hatteberg would be the cheapest, best solution. If I had money, I'd bet it here.

Red Leader
06-21-2007, 03:51 PM
If any trade were going to happen it would be this one. I'm not sure if the Yanks are going to give up a lot but with Giambi and Mientkiwicz out for a long time Hatteberg would be the cheapest, best solution. If I had money, I'd bet it here.

I agree. This deal makes the most sense (Hatte to Yanks). I also think that David Weathers will be pretty easy to move as the deadline approaches. I think they want to get Hatteberg packed and shipped as soon as possible to get Votto up here. I think they'll want to wait awhile before shipping Weathers out as they need him more and he has no replacement. I have little doubt that if the Reds wanted to trade Weathers tonight, they could, and get a good return for him.

Cyclone792
06-21-2007, 03:53 PM
I don't see the Yankees getting involved in the Dunn sweepstakes. I'd be surprised if more than two or three teams show serious interest.

I suspect you're right, and I also suspect this will apply to Dunn if he's potentially on the free agent market in the next few years. I believe there's too many teams who fear his batting average and strikeouts to make a serious run at him, be it in a trade or as a free agent. This is why I think the Reds should seriously consider keeping him and trying to lock him up for a few more years through his peak at a below market value deal, because I think wherever Dunn signs his next deal it will be at a below market value price due to lower demand (hello Moneyball).

Rojo
06-21-2007, 03:55 PM
I thought Conine was on someones' radar as well?

The Mets, supposedly.

NJReds
06-21-2007, 03:57 PM
I suspect you're right, and I also suspect this will apply to Dunn if he's potentially on the free agent market in the next few years. I believe there's too many teams who fear his batting average and strikeouts to make a serious run at him, be it in a trade or as a free agent. This is why I think the Reds should seriously consider keeping him and trying to lock him up for a few more years through his peak at a below market value deal, because I think wherever Dunn signs his next deal it will be at a below market value price due to lower demand (hello Moneyball).

Yeah. That's my thought. Unless some team that feels it can win the World Series suffers a big time injury that's a hit to their offense (like if the Sox lost Manny or Ortiz), I don't see Dunn getting dealt by the trading deadline.

Chip R
06-21-2007, 03:58 PM
If Griffey is going to require that 2009 option to be picked up for him to OK any trade, then I have a hard time believing the Reds will be moving him this season. That'd be a $30 million price tag some other team would have to be willing to pick up, and right now I just don't see that happening.


Yeah, I was thinking that may be the case. Seems like the Reds might have to kick in at least half if something gets worked out.

HumnHilghtFreel
06-21-2007, 04:06 PM
The Mets, supposedly.

Franco and Conine on the same bench? It would look more like a nursing home than a clubhouse:)

Puffy
06-21-2007, 04:09 PM
I agree. This deal makes the most sense (Hatte to Yanks). I also think that David Weathers will be pretty easy to move as the deadline approaches. I think they want to get Hatteberg packed and shipped as soon as possible to get Votto up here. I think they'll want to wait awhile before shipping Weathers out as they need him more and he has no replacement. I have little doubt that if the Reds wanted to trade Weathers tonight, they could, and get a good return for him.

How much you wanna bet that if Hatteberg is traded and Votto is brought up that Conine becomes the starting first basemen and Votto becomes a twice a week player.

In other words, I pretty much will guarantee the almost straight platoon Narron has now (Hat gets righties, Cones gets lefties) will no longer be straight platoon.

BRM
06-21-2007, 04:11 PM
How much you wanna bet that if Hatteberg is traded and Votto is brought up that Conine becomes the starting first basemen and Votto becomes a twice a week player.

In other words, I pretty much will guarantee the almost straight platoon Narron has now (Hat gets righties, Cones gets lefties) will no longer be straight platoon.

Trade them both then.

pedro
06-21-2007, 04:12 PM
How much you wanna bet that if Hatteberg is traded and Votto is brought up that Conine becomes the starting first basemen and Votto becomes a twice a week player.

In other words, I pretty much will guarantee the almost straight platoon Narron has now (Hat gets righties, Cones gets lefties) will no longer be straight platoon.

I don't think so. The twins style is bury guys in the minors until they're brought up to start. I have a hard time believing they'll bring up Votto to have him sit on the bench.

Far East
06-21-2007, 04:15 PM
If the Yanks want him, Dunn might consent to playing 1B for the Pin-stripers, even though he evidently did not want to do that in Cincy.

I could stomach Dunn as the Reds' first baseman, but I do not enjoy watching him in the OF.

redsmetz
06-21-2007, 04:18 PM
I think people are undervaluing the reds. The reds have the advantage here becuase the contending teams need a certain peice/pieces. Therefor they would get more in return for what they are trading. When teams trade for a position of need they need to give more to get what they want.

I think this has been part of the plan all along (not the part about us stinking up the universe, mind you). I've long felt that either Hatteberg or Conine would be expandable at the trade deadline, with the other staying to mentor Votto (or hold the seat while he finishes seasoning, if necessary).

I think, though, some of these guys were signed knowing they'd have subsequent value via a trade.

PuffyPig
06-21-2007, 04:34 PM
There's one advantage to having Hatteberg and Weathers both signed to 2 year deals (Hatteberg via an option). Since each is producing quite nicely now, we aren't forced to dump them because they are going to be FA's and we might not get anything for them.

If someone offers us crap, they know we aren't forced to accept the best offer.

And in a pitching short market, Weathers has actually been very good this season.

dougdirt
06-21-2007, 05:34 PM
Weathers and Hatteberg for Joba Chamberlain? Hell, I will drive and pick him up tonight! I will even pay for a massage for the entire ride home for the guy.

cincy09
06-21-2007, 05:36 PM
Ill be the first Reds fan to say "Joba the hut"....

I'll be the first to say "Pizza the Hut."

jojo
06-21-2007, 05:42 PM
Weathers and Hatteberg for Joba Chamberlain? Hell, I will drive and pick him up tonight! I will even pay for a massage for the entire ride home for the guy.

Which is why it has no chance of happening. :D

Puffy
06-21-2007, 05:53 PM
I will even pay for a massage for the entire ride home for the guy.

Chip works cheaply. At least thats what Red Leader told me.

jojo
06-21-2007, 07:41 PM
Hatteberg is best used via the platoon. I think the Yanks probably do view him as an option thats potentially useful but they aren't likely to trade for him like he's an everyday player IMHO.

Basically they're looking for pieces. I'm not sure they'll pay new car prices for a fender and bumper.

wally post
06-21-2007, 08:03 PM
i think this is great! the Red Sox should hopefully be joining in on Dunn's sweepstakes as well. Considering how many teams have similar needs, I think "the hut" is not a reach for two very much needed and effective players.
I'd bet, though, that WK is hesitant to pull the trigger - I hope not - I hope he's not gun shy.

Team Clark
06-21-2007, 10:25 PM
How much you wanna bet that if Hatteberg is traded and Votto is brought up that Conine becomes the starting first basemen and Votto becomes a twice a week player.

In other words, I pretty much will guarantee the almost straight platoon Narron has now (Hat gets righties, Cones gets lefties) will no longer be straight platoon.

I wouldn't bet against you on that. I hate when rookies sit when they need to get valuable AB's.

TOBTTReds
06-21-2007, 10:55 PM
I'll be the first to say "Pizza the Hut."

As long as he doesn't eat himself to death. :starwars:

RedEye
06-21-2007, 11:17 PM
I've long felt that either Hatteberg or Conine would be expandable at the trade deadline, with the other staying to mentor Votto (or hold the seat while he finishes seasoning, if necessary).


Now there's any option I hadn't thought of... making one of them bigger in order to enhance trade value. I like it! :D

Yachtzee
06-21-2007, 11:23 PM
Ill be the first Reds fan to say "Joba the hut"....

Or how about "Jobu"

http://detectovision.com/pics/jobu2.jpg

toledodan
06-21-2007, 11:45 PM
Basically they're looking for pieces. I'm not sure they'll pay new car prices for a fender and bumper.


why not? they already overpay for everything else!:D:beerme:

Superdude
06-22-2007, 12:07 AM
Wayne will probably be offered Chamberlain and counter attack by asking for Gardner. He's just sneaky like that.

Please pull this off Wayne. Land Chamberlain or Kennedy and give me some glimmer of hope to take from this pathetic season.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-22-2007, 12:11 AM
If they would have just taken Chamberlain (or Lincecum-don't get me started) instead of Stubbs, they could be pulling the clean sweep by dealing Hatteberg for Kennedy.

Aronchis
06-22-2007, 12:24 AM
If they would have just taken Chamberlain (or Lincecum-don't get me started) instead of Stubbs, they could be pulling the clean sweep by dealing Hatteberg for Kennedy.

You could do that with about every draft, from every year. Considering Chamerlain fell to the supps.

BoydsOfSummer
06-22-2007, 12:32 AM
I'd take a guy like Dellin Betances (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dellin%2520Betances&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=476454) for Hatty. Just made his first start of the year in Short-A Staten Island.

TOBTTReds
06-22-2007, 12:36 AM
You could do that with about every draft, from every year. Considering Chamerlain fell to the supps.

Well, except for the fact people were clammering not to take Stubbs, and to take a good pitcher. Saying we should have picked tiny tim is not hind sight, it was foresight. Sorry that was off topic.

Aronchis
06-22-2007, 01:02 AM
Well, except for the fact people were clammering not to take Stubbs, and to take a good pitcher. Saying we should have picked tiny tim is not hind sight, it was foresight. Sorry that was off topic.

People clammer every draft. They clammered this draft and will the next. That means nothing.

It is like blaming the Tigers for taking Kyle Sleeth in 2003 and still whining about it 5 years later. It is the hits you do make you celebrate. If you aren't making any hits at all, than that is the problem.

If in 5 drafts, the Reds hit on 3 first rounders, it would be major party time.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-22-2007, 09:55 AM
Well, except for the fact people were clammering not to take Stubbs, and to take a good pitcher. Saying we should have picked tiny tim is not hind sight, it was foresight. Sorry that was off topic.

Exactly.

jojo
06-22-2007, 09:58 AM
The Reds are morons for not taking Linceum-especially in hindsight...

westofyou
06-22-2007, 10:00 AM
People clammer every draft. They clammered this draft and will the next. That means nothing.

Unless you keep score on only the visible things a FO does, then it's toted out during every argument , But we also know that everything else involved in running a baseball organization is as "easy as pie" and "any moron could do it"

Bob Howsam was a pretty good GM, he drafted crap year after year after year in the 70's.

Benihana
06-22-2007, 10:09 AM
People clammer every draft. They clammered this draft and will the next. That means nothing.

It is like blaming the Tigers for taking Kyle Sleeth in 2003 and still whining about it 5 years later. It is the hits you do make you celebrate. If you aren't making any hits at all, than that is the problem.

If in 5 drafts, the Reds hit on 3 first rounders, it would be major party time.

Surprisingly I have to agree with Aronchis here. While I do agree most on this board were against Stubbs even before the pick was made, most of them are the same people that were against Homer when he was drafted because he was a HS pitcher. I fought that battle many times on this board.

Anyways, if Watson pans out, and Bailey and Bruce are anything close to what we expect them to be, the Reds have done very well drafting in the last three years. To have a success rate of 67% in the first round and 100% in producing at least one premium player per draft is unheard of in MLB. Everyone swings and misses once in a while.

And note, for obvious reasons I'm not even bringing this year up (way too early). Although it is interesting, I think the general sentiment so far is pretty mild/neutral in general, especially for this board. Not much complaining, not much celebrating.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-22-2007, 11:23 AM
Surprisingly I have to agree with Aronchis here. While I do agree most on this board were against Stubbs even before the pick was made, most of them are the same people that were against Homer when he was drafted because he was a HS pitcher. I fought that battle many times on this board.

Not me. I was against the Stubbs pick and for the Homer pick. As for this year, I'm luke warm on the Mesoraco. I'm actually more excited with Frazier.