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BCubb2003
06-25-2007, 08:11 PM
Who were the top two Reds last year in RBI percentage?

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/RBIPCT.py?StartDate=03%2F29%2F2006&EndDate=10%2F27%2F2006&SortField=1.0*%28OnRBI.RBI-OnRBI.HRs%29%2FOnRBI.RunnersOn&SortDir=desc&MinPA=150

Mario-Rijo
06-25-2007, 08:35 PM
That's a real interesting bit of information. Especially when you look at the other category; rank of how many were on base for each.

Just for the record I guessed Aurilia and Griffey

Nice find BCubb :thumbup:

gonelong
06-25-2007, 09:46 PM
RBI Percentage is 100*(RBI-HR)/Runners On

For some reason I thought those HRs might count for something. :laugh:

If I was going to create a metric to see how a guy was at driving in runs ...

I'd give him credit for driving in a guy from third ...
... even more credit for driving in a guy from 2nd ...
... even more credit for driving in a guy from 1st ....
... and the most credit for driving himself in.

GL

camisadelgolf
06-25-2007, 09:47 PM
That nails down what it is about Dunn that bothers me (other than the obvious). Dunn was 56th in Runners On When Hitting, but in that group, only Jay Payton and Mark Loretta had lower RBI Percentages. He is consistently low in this category.

LoganBuck
06-25-2007, 10:50 PM
I feel dirty after reading that.

LincolnparkRed
06-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Can you sort by team or anything? (I had Aurilia and Ross)

Far East
06-25-2007, 11:26 PM
How much credence would you give to a statistic that lists (A) Olmedo Saenz (20.90), Mark Teahen (18.75), Ryan Shealy (18.18), and Gabe Gross (18.01) ahead of (B) Pat Burrell (14.67), Prince Fielder (13.45), Adam Dunn (12.68), and Ichiro Suzuki (11.73)?

Are those guys in group A any better hitters, any more valuable offensively than those in group B?

I'll admit that I know next to nothing about personnel other than the Reds, including about those in group A above. Somebody help me.

BCubb2003
06-26-2007, 12:06 AM
The top three:

Edwin Encarnacion
Rich Aurilia
Juan Castro

camisadelgolf
06-26-2007, 12:46 AM
How much credence would you give to a statistic that lists (A) Olmedo Saenz (20.90), Mark Teahen (18.75), Ryan Shealy (18.18), and Gabe Gross (18.01) ahead of (B) Pat Burrell (14.67), Prince Fielder (13.45), Adam Dunn (12.68), and Ichiro Suzuki (11.73)?

Are those guys in group A any better hitters, any more valuable offensively than those in group B?

I'll admit that I know next to nothing about personnel other than the Reds, including about those in group A above. Somebody help me.

Those are numbers from only one year. In Dunn's case, his percentage has been pretty consistent over the past few years. In Ichiro's case, who is a better hitter than Dunn, he may get more hits while runners are on base, but they're not the type of hits that score baserunners (i.e. extra-base hits). I think this stat helps show that it's valuable to have different types of hitters (those who get on base and those who bring them home).

Mario-Rijo
06-26-2007, 01:30 AM
Those are numbers from only one year. In Dunn's case, his percentage has been pretty consistent over the past few years. In Ichiro's case, who is a better hitter than Dunn, he may get more hits while runners are on base, but they're not the type of hits that score baserunners (i.e. extra-base hits). I think this stat helps show that it's valuable to have different types of hitters (those who get on base and those who bring them home).

In the case of all these guys a lot of them are small sample sizes and thus are somewhat meaningless. I.E. Juan Castro

In Ichiro's case he does typically put the ball in play, I am bit surprised to see his name down there can't explain that one. But In RA and EE's case that really isn't much of a surprise they were driving in runs with a high frequency last year.

RedsBaron
06-26-2007, 06:30 AM
The top three:

Edwin Encarnacion
Rich Aurilia
Juan Castro

I guess by that stat Juan Castro should be batting cleanup--please do not let Narron see this thread! :eek:

edabbs44
06-26-2007, 07:48 AM
How much credence would you give to a statistic that lists (A) Olmedo Saenz (20.90), Mark Teahen (18.75), Ryan Shealy (18.18), and Gabe Gross (18.01) ahead of (B) Pat Burrell (14.67), Prince Fielder (13.45), Adam Dunn (12.68), and Ichiro Suzuki (11.73)?

Are those guys in group A any better hitters, any more valuable offensively than those in group B?

I'll admit that I know next to nothing about personnel other than the Reds, including about those in group A above. Somebody help me.

Not more valuable, but more succesful when they had a scoring opportunity in front of them in 2006.

Prince Fielder, last year, had 49 RBI in 156 PAs with RISP. Saenz had 31 in 70 PAs. Gross had 29 in 62 PAs. Dunn had 59 in 176 PAs.

Take away 1 for every HR in those situations and it gets even more skewed. Dunn would then have knocked in 46, or one for every 3.82 PA. Saenz = 29, or one for every 2.41 PA. Gross = 26, or one for every 2.38 PA. 46 for Fielder, or one for every 3.39 PA.

Small sample size? Sure...but it's only a stat. One of many which can be used to judge someone's performance.

RedsManRick
06-26-2007, 07:59 AM
Update those numbers using making an out that does not drive in a run as your measurement of failure and I bet it looks quite a bit different. Any stat that says an out is better than a walk is a pretty useless stat in my book.

edabbs44
06-26-2007, 08:03 AM
Update those numbers using making an out that does not drive in a run as your measurement of failure and I bet it looks quite a bit different. Any stat that says an out is better than a walk is a pretty useless stat in my book.

This stat does not talk about any of that...it just measures your success at driving in runs. Since RBI are believed to be dependent on opportunities, this levels the playing field a bit.

RedsManRick
06-26-2007, 09:56 AM
This stat does not talk about any of that...it just measures your success at driving in runs. Since RBI are believed to be dependent on opportunities, this levels the playing field a bit.

Fair enough. But even then, what does that tell? How do you behave differently know that you know this? Do you bat these guys in a different spot in the order? Do you sign them in FA? I'm just not clear on the "so what".

Chip R
06-26-2007, 10:04 AM
Let me get this straight, this doesn't count home runs as a run batted in?

flyer85
06-26-2007, 10:05 AM
Let me get this straight, this doesn't count home runs as a run batted in?just because something is a statistic, doesn't imply that it tells something meaningful.

Chip R
06-26-2007, 10:07 AM
just because something is a statistic, doesn't imply that it tells something meaningful.


True, and it's not a bad stat except for the fatal flaw of not counting home runs.

dabvu2498
06-26-2007, 10:11 AM
True, and it's not a bad stat except for the fatal flaw of not counting home runs.

Sure it counts home runs. You get an RBI for driving yourself in, right?

Subtracting the home runs means that home runs don't count twice.

It's kind of an interesting stat. How useful? :dunno: And I'm sure others could speak to how "reproducable" it is.

Chip R
06-26-2007, 10:14 AM
Sure it counts home runs. You get an RBI for driving yourself in, right?

Subtracting the home runs means that home runs don't count twice.



I see. So every plate appearance should count in that stat, right?

BRM
06-26-2007, 10:20 AM
Sure it counts home runs. You get an RBI for driving yourself in, right?

Subtracting the home runs means that home runs don't count twice.

It's kind of an interesting stat. How useful? :dunno: And I'm sure others could speak to how "reproducable" it is.

Actually, the formula is 100*(RBI-HR)/Runners On. That eliminates the RBIs from "driving yourself in". It only counts RBIs from driving in runners on base.

dabvu2498
06-26-2007, 10:24 AM
Actually, the formula is 100*(RBI-HR)/Runners On. That eliminates the RBIs from "driving yourself in". It only counts RBIs from driving in runners on base.

The RBI listed on the site appear to be total RBI... not just RBI with runners on. So... if you hit a solo HR, you still get credit for 1 RBI.

BRM
06-26-2007, 10:25 AM
The RBI listed on the site appear to be total RBI... not just RBI with runners on. So... if you hit a solo HR, you still get credit for 1 RBI.

When you run the calculations though, the RBI from "driving yourself in" are subtracted.

dabvu2498
06-26-2007, 10:27 AM
When you run the calculations though, the RBI from "driving yourself in" are subtracted.

Ay, ay, ay... it took my pea brain a minute to digest this. I see now. Sorry.

flyer85
06-26-2007, 10:30 AM
Actually, the formula is 100*(RBI-HR)/Runners On. That eliminates the RBIs from "driving yourself in". It only counts RBIs from driving in runners on base.which really makes little sense because a player does "drive himself in" when he hits a HR.

Chip R
06-26-2007, 10:32 AM
which really makes little sense because a player does "drive himself in" when he hits a HR.


Exactly.

westofyou
06-26-2007, 10:35 AM
So the the stat should be called ERBI?

The Egoless Run Batted In.

How many ERBI's did your favorite player have this year?

BRM
06-26-2007, 10:47 AM
Well, it looks like it is just a way to evaluate a player's ability to drive in teammates. I don't see much utility in it personally.

BCubb2003
06-26-2007, 01:06 PM
I guess it's an entry in the ever-present debate on "Sure, he hits a home run once in a while, but how does he come through with runners on base?"

It's also an attempt to come up with an rbi that's not team dependent.

But there's a lot to be said for a slugger who always has a runner in scoring position, so to speak. If he drives himself in often enough.

But if you've got runners in scoring position, would you rather have a batter who has a one in eight chance of hitting a homer, or someone who has a one in three chance of getting a hit?

The debate continues.

bucksfan2
06-26-2007, 03:37 PM
This almost sounds like a stat made up becuse someone was bored and wanted another number.

Raisor
06-26-2007, 03:43 PM
This stat seems awful "krispy" to me.