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bucksfan2
06-28-2007, 09:12 AM
Last night proved it to me that Javy isn't a major leauge catcher. He may have cost Harang his 9th win. They guy has an ok bat but I would never put him behind the plate unless it were in an emergency situation.

cumberlandreds
06-28-2007, 09:14 AM
I have posted this before and I will say again. Javy is a good pinch hitter and nothing more. An occaisonal start at 1B would be OK to keep his bat active.

GAC
06-28-2007, 09:46 AM
He doesn't belong behind the plate.... but then, neither does Moeller.

I don't think Javy handles pitchers well, calls a good game, and well....has a hard tme catching da ball. ;)

And his "plus" may be his PHing; but that is no reason to keep the guy around and taking up valuable roster space. We can still do better.

VR
06-28-2007, 09:56 AM
With his complete inability to throw out runners this year....It has to be a certainty that he has an injured arm or shoulder. You don't go from throwing out guys at a 40+% clip to a 0000 rate without some kind of injury. I think that's why Moeller has a spot on the roster.

Chip R
06-28-2007, 10:03 AM
I don't think Javy handles pitchers well, calls a good game, and well....has a hard tme catching da ball. ;)



Other than that, he's a fine catcher. :lol:

Team Clark
06-28-2007, 10:03 AM
He doesn't belong behind the plate.... but then, neither does Moeller.

I don't think Javy handles pitchers well, calls a good game, and well....has a hard tme catching da ball. ;)

And his "plus" may be his PHing; but that is no reason to keep the guy around and taking up valuable roster space. We can still do better.

Javy sure has gone from Bad to worse as a catcher but I am curious as to why you think Moeller has no business behind the plate?

RichRed
06-28-2007, 10:24 AM
Javy is a good pinch hitter and nothing more.

Last night notwithstanding, he's not even that.

Always Red
06-28-2007, 10:28 AM
Last night notwithstanding, he's not even that.

I agree. I'm not sure what he brings to the team. He has a penchant for delivering clutch (ie-memorable) PH's, on occasion, but when you look at the numbers, he's a poor PH, overall.

Chip R
06-28-2007, 10:39 AM
I agree. I'm not sure what he brings to the team. He has a penchant for delivering clutch (ie-memorable) PH's, on occasion, but when you look at the numbers, he's a poor PH, overall.


How does one define success as a pinch hitter?

Kc61
06-28-2007, 10:44 AM
Completely disagree with the premise of this thread.

Guy is a very good left handed hitter. If given 250 at bats, I'm sure he would contribute a lot.

Not a good defensive catcher any more, but on balance, because he is so much better offensively than the alternatives, I would use him more, not less.

When he caught Homer Bailey, the kid had his best outing if I recall.
He handles pitchers just fine, if they can pitch. Nobody can "handle" some of these Reds relievers.

Javy has 14 RBIs is 74 at bats with only 1 home run. He hits with men on base. A lot of other Reds don't do that. A lot of posters here are constantly frustrated, correctly, because of this Reds' failure. I wouldn't be so fast to dump one of the few guys who comes through.

I think Javy is very valuable.

chicoruiz
06-28-2007, 12:33 PM
Well, it would have been difficult to get away with JV in the '70s when the running game was huge. Nowadays, however, there just aren't that many teams that can run you to death. As far as catching the ball, yes, he's mediocre, but I don't think he's a lost cause; in all fairness MacBeth totally crossed him up last night. I can't defend his game-calling skills, but I think he has some positives to offer. We'd all like to have a guy who's good at everything, but until we get one I'd rather have a mixture of glove guys and bat guys than all glovemen.

Sea Ray
06-28-2007, 12:38 PM
He is horrible defensively. But his bat is needed on an otherwise weak bench offensively. The guy has only struck out 3 times all year. No other Red has similar skills.

cincrazy
06-28-2007, 12:53 PM
I like Javy as a pinch-hitter, but not as a catcher. And does anyone else feel that Javy seems to be up in EVERY clutch situation that this team faces this season? I mean we could do much worse than having him at the plate with the game on the line, but it seems every time I turn around, that's the case.

Johnny Footstool
06-28-2007, 01:04 PM
Javy with RISP:

2007: 20 ABs, .350/.423/.700

Looks fantastic! But then you see this:

2006: 60 ABs, .167/.257/.233

What happened to "Mr. Clutch"?

Oh, here he is:

2005: 58 ABs, .310/.411/.638

No, he's gone again:

2004: 45 ABs, .200/.296/.311

Big Klu
06-28-2007, 01:15 PM
With his complete inability to throw out runners this year....It has to be a certainty that he has an injured arm or shoulder. You don't go from throwing out guys at a 40+% clip to a 0000 rate without some kind of injury. I think that's why Moeller has a spot on the roster.

I've been wondering the same thing. Valentin has not been that bad at throwing runners out in the past. Since he has joined the Reds, here are his numbers:

2004: 30.8% CS rate (12 CS in 39 attempts)
2005: 28.6% CS rate (10 CS in 35 attempts)
2006: 44.4% CS rate (8 CS in 18 attempts)
2007: 0.0% CS rate (0 CS in 13 attempts)

For his career: 31.7% CS rate (70 CS in 221 attempts)

It certainly appears that something is wrong with him physically, as far as his throwing. And that is the only reason why Moeller, who only has a 10.0% CS rate, is on the team.


As for the passed balls last night, the first one was his fault. But I think he was crossed up by McBeth on the second one.

Big Klu
06-28-2007, 01:18 PM
Javy with RISP:

2007: 20 ABs, .350/.423/.700

Looks fantastic! But then you see this:

2006: 60 ABs, .167/.257/.233

What happened to "Mr. Clutch"?

Oh, here he is:

2005: 58 ABs, .310/.411/.638

No, he's gone again:

2004: 45 ABs, .200/.296/.311


Javy likes odd-numbered years.

Blimpie
06-28-2007, 01:20 PM
He doesn't belong.... but then, neither does Moeller.Moeller? Just because his OBP is only .047 better than Aaron Harang's???? ;)

Kc61
06-28-2007, 01:27 PM
Javy's OPS in 2005 and 2006 were .883 and .754, respectively. And that includes his righty at bats. Much lower in previous two years.

These 2005 and 2006 numbers, combined with 2007, are pretty darn good for a catcher in today's baseball.

As for his throwing, a good point is made that it used to be quite good. I don't know why but he certainly isn't throwing well anymore.

gonelong
06-28-2007, 01:42 PM
I have to admin that one of my guilty pleasures is watching a Javy AB.

I don't know how the heck he ever hits a ball with that approach, but when he does square one he sure laces it.

GL

Team Clark
06-28-2007, 02:19 PM
I have to admin that one of my guilty pleasures is watching a Javy AB.

I don't know how the heck he ever hits a ball with that approach, but when he does square one he sure laces it.

GL

I have to agree. Come Hell or High Water he is hacking... I would never teach that but it sure is fun to watch. Especially someone with his frame.

vic715
06-28-2007, 02:48 PM
Completely disagree with the premise of this thread.

Guy is a very good left handed hitter. If given 250 at bats, I'm sure he would contribute a lot.

Not a good defensive catcher any more, but on balance, because he is so much better offensively than the alternatives, I would use him more, not less.

When he caught Homer Bailey, the kid had his best outing if I recall.
He handles pitchers just fine, if they can pitch. Nobody can "handle" some of these Reds relievers.

Javy has 14 RBIs is 74 at bats with only 1 home run. He hits with men on base. A lot of other Reds don't do that. A lot of posters here are constantly frustrated, correctly, because of this Reds' failure. I wouldn't be so fast to dump one of the few guys who comes through.

I think Javy is very valuable.

Good reply. Javy is a very good man to have on this team. He's a role player and he does a very good job being a role player.He's proven time and time again that he a damn good lefthanded pinchitter and thats not easy.Yes he is a third string catcher but how many teams have 3 quality catchers.Javy is not the problem on this 30-48 team.

bucksfan2
06-28-2007, 03:28 PM
My problem with Javy is that I dont see a whole lot of usefullness for him. He is an all or nothing swinger. Never really does one fundamental thing when hitting. When he connects he is dangerous but so far this year he has put one ball out of the park. His only true position on this club is a pinch hitter in a one run game. Last nights mixup was horiable and any catcher should never let that happen that late in a close game. To be honest I would much rather see the likes of Hopper or Conine/Hatty up to the plate in a close game over Javy.

Johnny Footstool
06-28-2007, 03:39 PM
Good reply. Javy is a very good man to have on this team. He's a role player and he does a very good job being a role player.He's proven time and time again that he a damn good lefthanded pinchitter and thats not easy.Yes he is a third string catcher but how many teams have 3 quality catchers.Javy is not the problem on this 30-48 team.

In 24 PH ABs this season, his line is .208/.269/.375. Last year, in 52 PH ABs, he put up only slightly better numbers: .231/.273/.462.

He's gotten some memorable hits, but the numbers prove he isn't a very good LH pinch hitter (especially this season).

As for the "3 quality catchers", well, the Reds don't have 3 quality catchers.

KronoRed
06-28-2007, 05:11 PM
As for the "3 quality catchers", well, the Reds don't have 3 quality catchers.

Put all 3 together and you might have 1.

Javy is just a PH who has catching gear

Johnny Footstool
06-28-2007, 05:14 PM
Put all 3 together and you might have 1.

Ross's power and arm, Moeller's "savvy", and Javy's...umm...mustache?


Javy is just a PH who has catching gear

He's not even a decent PH.