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View Full Version : Woah, Hamilton hitting leadoff, Freel 6th



reds44
07-05-2007, 05:06 PM
Hamilton cf
Phillips 2b
Griffey rf
Conine 1b
Dunn lf
Freel 3b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Arroyo p

Pete said he did it because Josh's OBP is better and Freel's numbers with RISP are better.

Interesting.

Homer Bailey
07-05-2007, 05:09 PM
I'm ready for change... I like it.

JLB5
07-05-2007, 05:09 PM
Pete said he did it because Josh's OBP is better and Freel's numbers with RISP are better.

Interesting.

About time OBP became a priority in lineup construction, although Phillips' doesn't exactly have the best OBP for the 2 hole. At least he is acknowleging the concept.

reds44
07-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Wait a minute, isn't a right pitching today (Morris)?

Why is Conine hitting 4th, and why is EE sititng when he has a .294/.354/.417 line against righties?

Degenerate39
07-05-2007, 05:12 PM
That's interesting

jimbo
07-05-2007, 05:19 PM
Wait a minute, isn't a right pitching today (Morris)?

Why is Conine hitting 4th, and why is EE sititng when he has a .294/.354/.417 line against righties?

EE is 1 for 12 lifetime against Morris and Conine is playing because Mackanin likes his numbers against Morris more than Hatteberg's.

He's already stated that he wants to get plenty of playing time for Freel and some others so those who didn't like how Narron used so many different lineups, it's probably going to get worse with this guy.

CySeymour
07-05-2007, 05:20 PM
Although I hate having EE sit, by playing Freel a lot and at different position, you could possibly increase his trade value. Flipping Freel before the deadline wouldn't be the worst thing to do.

reds44
07-05-2007, 05:21 PM
Although I hate having EE sit, by playing Freel a lot and at different position, you could possibly increase his trade value. Flipping Freel before the deadline wouldn't be the worst thing to do.
I honestly don't think Krivsky has the mental capacity to think that far in advance.

JLB5
07-05-2007, 05:22 PM
Wait a minute, isn't a right pitching today (Morris)?

Why is Conine hitting 4th, and why is EE sititng when he has a .294/.354/.417 line against righties?

Well, if he plans to start Freel most days, somebody or another will be sitting. I guess he'd rather keep the lefties in against Morris. Not sure what Conine playing is about unless he has a better history against Morris than Hatte or maybe a trade is TBA?

CySeymour
07-05-2007, 05:22 PM
I honestly don't think Krivsky has the mental capacity to think that far in advance.

Hey, sometimes it better to be lucky than good.

JLB5
07-05-2007, 05:36 PM
He's already stated that he wants to get plenty of playing time for Freel and some others so those who didn't like how Narron used so many different lineups, it's probably going to get worse with this guy.

I won't be surprised to see him experiment with some things. Griffey is the anchor at #3, so he needs to decide who else he is going to anchor and where (besides Gozo/Ross at 7/8). It looks like he may be leaving Phillips in the #2 hole. I'd prefer someone with a higher OBP and better bat skills in that spot, but this team is severely handicapped in those type of hitters.

James B.
07-05-2007, 05:37 PM
The problem with making out a lineup for the reds is that they don't seem to have a # 1 or # 2 hitter on their roster. I hope they address that after the season.

JLB5
07-05-2007, 05:44 PM
The problem with making out a lineup for the reds is that they don't seem to have a # 1 or # 2 hitter on their roster. I hope they address that after the season.

Actually, depending upon who else is in the lineup, Hamilton could be a very good lead off hitter for this squad. Stolen bases are overrated and Hamilton has plenty of speed on the basepaths. If he is able to get on base at a .360+ clip, I have no problem with giving him that job on a permanent basis when you have other sluggers like Griff and Dunn in the middle of the lineup.

Screwball
07-05-2007, 05:51 PM
I don't like to critique the batting order too often, but I just can't figure out the obsession with batting him clean-up. His line when batting 4th is .273/.273/.364/.637 with just 3 HRs and 15 RBIs in 91 ABs. His numbers with nobody on base or with a runner on 1st are just as dreadful.

If the Reds really need Conine in the line-up to take advantage of his nice avg. with RISP (.333) or numbers against Morris (.308 avg, .385 OBP, weak .305 SLG tho), then why not bat him 6th? It's not a great sample size, but with 28 ABs in the 6 hole he's hitting .333/.391/.667/1.058.

I just can't figure it out (especially with a righty on the mound!).

TheOnlyRedsFan
07-05-2007, 05:52 PM
i like have Phillips in the 2 spot

DannyB
07-05-2007, 06:01 PM
How hard is it to put the best 8 guys on the field?

REDblooded
07-05-2007, 06:25 PM
I've been screaming forever that I want to see Hamilton batting lead-off. He has decent speed, but most importantly, he seems to make pitchers work with a 3.8 pitches per plate appearance (www.thehardballtimes.com has GREAT stats). Phillips has a 3.5, Freel 4, Hatteberg 3.9, Dunn 4.2, Jr 4.1, Edwin 3.9, WHOA Ross 4.2?, Conine 3.6, Gonzalez 3.7, Castro 3.2 (yup, you stink), and Valentin 3.4. Kinda went on a tangent there..... LOL. He has a clutch rating of 1.1. Dunn's? -2.2.

AtomicDumpling
07-05-2007, 07:43 PM
It seems to me that since David Ross is such a fastball hitter it would be wiser to have him hit 7th and Gonzo 8th. That way Ross would see a lot more fastballs. He sees nothing but breaking balls because of the pitcher being next in line.

In addition, since Gonzo is hitting about .225 since May 1st he is an out machine. Better to have him hit 8th where he will get fewer plate appearances.

BLEEDS
07-05-2007, 08:51 PM
Wow, other than Conine batting Cleanup, this almost looks like a REAL MLB lineup!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

George Foster
07-05-2007, 11:15 PM
I've been screaming forever that I want to see Hamilton batting lead-off. He has decent speed, but most importantly, he seems to make pitchers work with a 3.8 pitches per plate appearance (www.thehardballtimes.com has GREAT stats). Phillips has a 3.5, Freel 4, Hatteberg 3.9, Dunn 4.2, Jr 4.1, Edwin 3.9, WHOA Ross 4.2?, Conine 3.6, Gonzalez 3.7, Castro 3.2 (yup, you stink), and Valentin 3.4. Kinda went on a tangent there..... LOL. He has a clutch rating of 1.1. Dunn's? -2.2.

Josh on base 4 times tonight with a HR......:beerme:

jimbo
07-05-2007, 11:40 PM
114 pitches for Arroyo? Mackanin is abusing his arm. ;)

Good to finally win a series. Clutch hitting, good starting pitching, and a great 8th inning pitched by Coutlangus.

Screwball
07-05-2007, 11:55 PM
114 pitches for Arroyo? Mackanin is abusing his arm. ;)


Fire him.:evil:



Good to finally win a series. Clutch hitting, good starting pitching, and a great 8th inning pitched by Coutlangus.


You said it! :beerme: BTW, how sweet was JC getting Bonds looking? Excellent pitch by Cooter right there, and that should give him some confidence going forward...

reds44
07-05-2007, 11:59 PM
I like Hamilton hitting leadoff.
I hate Freel batting 6th and playing over Edwin (or Phillips or Dunn or Griifey or Hamilton).

jimbo
07-06-2007, 12:07 AM
I like Hamilton hitting leadoff.


Just a few days ago I wasn't too crazy about Hamilton hitting leadoff, but am warming up to the idea, at least on a short-term basis. I still think he is more of a prototypical middle of the order (3-4-5) hitter, but considering what the Reds have he'll fill in nicely for the rest of the season.

You still won't convince me to bat EE second though. ;)

Vada Pinson Fan
07-06-2007, 12:11 AM
With the players on the Reds, I would have thought coming out of spring training, this kind of game would be the norm for the Redlegs. But not as it really is. Would love to have seen Bronson also have the same record as Aaron Harang (9-2) at this point.

As evidenced by the game tonight, Arroyo pitched with confidence versus the Giants perhaps b/c of the early lead. Harang has enjoyed way better run support per game than Arroyo has this year.

I like Hamilton leading off and moving Freel lower in the batting order. Good idea about moving Ross up to 7th and Gonzo to 8th. A very nice lineup by Mackanin tonight, although I would have played the hot-hitting Hatteberg rather than Conine against Morris.

durl
07-06-2007, 11:06 AM
The lineup on the 5th looks alot like a Narron lineup when Hatteburg doesn't play, including letting Hamilton lead off, which Narron did from time to time. But then I never really had a problem with Narron's lineups. They typically scored plenty of runs to win games. Freel has typically been leadoff but in this game he hit where Narron had Edwin batting.