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Cyclone792
07-06-2007, 02:12 PM
There's a couple UFC fans here on RZ, and rather than start a new thread for each event, I figured I'd toss up a UFC thread where we can discuss each event as they pop up.

Anyway, UFC 73 is tomorrow night in Sacramento in what is one of the best fight cards I've ever seen. Here's the matchups, and these are some freakin' huge names and huge fights ... who are some of your picks in these bouts?

UFC Middleweight Championship
Anderson Silva vs. Nate Marquardt

UFC Lightweight Championship
Sean Sherk vs. Hermes Franca

Tito Ortiz vs. Rashad Evans
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Heath Herring

Kenny Florian vs. Alvin Robinson
Stephan Bonnar vs. Mike Nickels
Jorge Gurgel vs. Diego Saraiva
Chris Lytle vs. Jason Gilliam
Mark Bocek Vs. Frank Edgar

In the middleweight title bout, I'm going to take a chance and go with Marquardt over Silva in the upset. I'd love to see Marquardt take Silva down, then use his wrestling skills to gain a dominant position over Silva and ground and pound the champ. I'm not sure Marquardt can stand with Silva, but if he can take him down to the ground and avoid a submission, I think he's got a good chance to pull the upset.

In the lightweight title bout, this is a bit of coin flip here but I'm going to go with Sherk (who I'd love to see smash Mayweather in an MMA bout, but that's another topic). Sherk is an absurd wrestler with absurd strength, but Franca is also a sick BJJ fighter. However, I think Sherk can avoid the submission and use his wrestling, strength advantage, and conditioning advantage to wear Franca down and pull out a victory. Nevertheless, that's a pretty tough fight to predict, IMO, and it should be exciting.

I can't wait to see Nogueira fight for the first time in the UFC tomorrow night, and he could very well be the Heavyweight belt holder in a few months. Herring's no joke himself, but they've fought once with Nogueira winning and I see the same result happening again.

Tito Ortiz and Rashad Evans should be another great fight, but just like Diego Sanchez was bound to eventually lose, so is Evans. It seems like a lot of people are picking Evans to use Ortiz as a stepping stone, but I'm going to go with Tito here.

And lastly, while we may not see the fight tomorrow night on the PPV card as it's an undercard fight, hopefully local Cincinnati fighter (by way of Brazil) and my former neighbor Jorge Gurgel pulls off a victory over Diego Saraiva.

halcyon
07-09-2007, 10:12 AM
I missed this thread pre-fight, but I figured I'd jump in anyways. I'm in a very small and informal UFC fantasy league at work. My choices were Ortiz, Nog, Silva, Sherk, Florian, Bonnar, Lytle, Edgar and Gurgel. You also have to pick the method of victory, round and minute. I think I came in second for the nite.

Nogueira was nearly a big disappointment. The UFC woulda had to be frustrated had he lost to Herring. Herring is never going to be a threat in the big picture in the heavyweight division and he had already lost to Nog twice before.

I thought Evans actually came across as a bigger jerk than Ortiz, post-fight. Surprising.

I also think Sherk's head is filled with concrete.

mole44
07-09-2007, 05:31 PM
I'm in a very small and informal UFC fantasy league at work. You also have to pick the method of victory, round and minute.

Holy crap, thats brilliant! :beerme:

Doro
07-09-2007, 05:37 PM
I too didnt come across this thread till after the card. Although there wasnt a lot of highlight reel endings I thought it was one of the best UFC PPV's to date matchups wise. Sean Sherk vs. Hermes Franca was a great fight and cant believe how Sherk was taking those knees to the hiead and also escaping a number of deep guillotine's.

Cyclone792
07-10-2007, 01:35 PM
Lots of big UFC news for Cincinnati as it looks like UFC 77 will be held down at US Bank Arena this fall. The UFC event will undoubtedly sell the place out in probably a day or two, and it may be one of the biggest events held in US Bank Arena in years. This is good news for downtown Cincinnati itself as it should benefit very nicely from the overall economic impact of the UFC rolling into town.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/2007/07/09/ddn070907mmainsider.html


Saturday's hyped UFC 73 proves to be unspectacular
By Dann Stupp
Contributing Writer
Monday, July 09, 2007

Saturday's UFC 73 event in Sacramento, Calif., proved that it's the quality of the fights — not the quality of the fighters — that creates great events.

The Ultimate Fighting Championship's pay-per-view event was aptly named "Stacked." With two title fights, the UFC debut of former PRIDE heavyweight champion Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, and a much-hyped bout between UFC legend Tito Ortiz and reality-TV star Rashad Evans, the expectations were astronomical.

Ultimately, though, the event proved to be nothing spectacular. No belts changed hands, Ortiz and Evans fought to a draw, and — in a year of major upsets — not a single underdog emerged victorious on the nine-fight card.

However, with UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva's first-round TKO of Nate Marquardt in the night's main-event, a rematch with Rich Franklin is now booked for Cincinnati's U.S. Bank Arena.

Headed to Cincy

Back in October 2006, a seemingly indestructible Franklin was forced to surrender his middleweight belt to Silva.

The former Cincinnati high school math teacher hadn't lost a fight in three years. He was considered indestructible, and his future as the UFC's poster-boy champion seemed a lock. However, Silva completely and utterly dismantled the former champ with a series of knees and scored a first-round TKO at UFC 64.

After Silva successfully defended his title Saturday night, UFC officials confirmed that Franklin vs. Silva II will take place at U.S. Bank Arena on Oct. 20.

Look for tickets to go on sale in late September or early October.

In the spotlight

UFC welterweight Jon Fitch (14-2 MMA, 6-0 UFC) is perhaps the best fighter that casual MMA fans have never heard of.

Despite a stellar record and current 13-fight win streak, the former Fort Wayne, Ind., resident and Purdue University wrestling captain has been relegated mostly to untelevised undercard fights.

As any MMA fighter will tell you, TV exposure is key to a successful career.

Over the weekend, though, I learned Fitch will next fight fellow 170-pound contender Diego Sanchez on Sept. 22. And it may even be a televised, co-main event at UFC 76.

"It's about time," says one of his training partners. "What more does a guy have to do to get some love?"

Dann Stupp is editor-in-chief of UFCjunkie.com. For your daily fix of MMA and UFC news, go to www.ufcjunkie.com.

http://ufcjunkie.com


As UFCjunkie.com (www.ufcjunkie.com) exclusively announced last month, the UFC is heading to Cincinnati, Ohio for a show on Oct. 20.

After UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva (19-4 MMA, 4-0 UFC) defended his belt against Nate Marquardt last night at UFC 73, officials confirmed that former champ Rich Franklin (22-2 MMA, 9-1 UFC) would get his shot at redemption — and it’ll come in his hometown of Cincinnati.

Silva defeated Franklin with a first-round TKO at UFC 64. The October 2006 loss snapped Franklin’s eight-fight win streak.

Franklin rebounded with a win over Jason MacDonald at UFC 68, and while at the March show, UFC president Dana White told Franklin that he would get his rematch with Silva at a Cincinnati event later in the year. The rematch ultimately was contingent on two key victories: Franklin’s over Yushin Okami at UFC 72, and Silva’s over Marquardt last night.

The stars aligned, and U.S. Bank Arena will now play host to UFC 77.

A source close to the arena told UFCjunkie.com that preparations have already begun for the show.

U.S. Bank Arena, located along the Ohio River, shares a plaza with the Cincinnati Reds’ Great American Ball Park and can accommodate approximately 17,000 spectators. A minor-league hockey game between the Cincinnati Cyclones and Dayton Bombers was reassigned to Dayton to make room for the UFC event on Oct. 20.

So, why Cincinnati? In addition to Franklin’s appeal, the success of UFC 68 likely played an important role. The first-ever UFC show in Ohio was a hugely successful event. In addition to setting a record for the largest live attendance in North American mixed-martial arts history, UFC 68 also broke the arena’s record for live gate and total merchandise sales. The night’s crowd, which produced a three-week sellout for the event, was at 95 percent capacity before the first fight even began.

For the latest news about UFC 77, stay tuned to the UFC Rumors section of UFCjunkie.com.


Forty-eight hours after Rashad Evans and Tito Ortiz’s dramatic — and somewhat disappointing — draw at Saturday’s UFC 73 event, UFCjunkie.com (www.ufcjunkie.com) has learned that their rematch will take Oct. 20 at the UFC 77 event that’s set for Cincinnati, Ohio.

Earlier today, UFCjunkie.com confirmed the date with a representative from Evans’ camp.

Despite two title fights and the Octagon debut of a former PRIDE heavyweight champion, it was Ortiz (15-5-1 MMA, 14-5-1 UFC) and Evans (10-0-1 MMA, 5-0-1 UFC) who remained the focus of this past weekend’s pay-per-view event. The former UFC light heavyweight champion and his undefeated opponent stole the headlines, secured top billing in the event’s marketing materials, and even became the focus of the night’s post-event press conference.

During that media event, UFC president Dana White stated — rather definitively — that a rematch was imminent and that neither fighter would be booked for another event before the rematch takes place.

As it turns out, the UFC wasted no time scheduling the date. UFC 77 takes place Oct. 20 at U.S. Bank Arena in downtown Cincinnati. The arena can accommodate approximately 17,000 spectators.

Just like this past weekend, Evans vs. Ortiz II may steal some of the spotlight from what is supposed to be UFC 77’s real main event: current UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva vs. Rich Franklin, who will meet in another anticipated rematch. In October 2006, Silva defeated then-champ Franklin with a first-round TKO to claim the middleweight championship.

Franklin, a former Cincinnati high school math teacher, will look to reclaim his title in front of a hometown crowd.

For the latest news about UFC 77, stay tuned to the UFC Rumors section of UFCjunkie.com.

halcyon
07-11-2007, 02:56 PM
I'll be quite surprised if Silva is given too much trouble by Franklin. He looked to be in top form on Saturday night. The Cincy card doesn't exactly wow me but it should be interesting, nonetheless.

Does anyone know when/if the UFC is going to schedule a fight for Fedor in the heavyweight division? That would be interesting, as would seeing CroCop get another fight to redeem himself.

Javy Pornstache
07-11-2007, 03:33 PM
Cro Cop is fighting Cheick Kongo at UFC 75; if he wins, it's believed he will get his long-awaited rematch with Minotauro for a Heavyweight Title shot.

Fedor's not in yet, but Dana White keeps saying he fully expects to have him signed and in his first fight by the end of 2007 or beginning of 2008, and his first UFC fight would immediately be a title fight, similar to Dan Henderson facing Quinton Jackson at UFC 75 right off the bat (I realize Hendo fought in UFC back in the day, but he's 'new' to so many casual UFC fans since he's been in PRIDE for a while).

halcyon
07-11-2007, 05:59 PM
I think thats fair (for Henderson) and I can't imagine a lot of people wanting Fedor to prove himself first either. He's already done that in Pride. I just read the interview with Dana on ESPN where he made some comments about it all. Interesting stuff.

I had forgotten the news about CroCop fighting Kongo. That's an intriguing bout. So much hype and pub surrounding him, he can't hardly afford to lose to Kongo. Getting obliterated by Gonzaga's right foot really de-mystified him to a lot of folks I would guess.

Javy Pornstache
07-11-2007, 11:37 PM
I agree, it's definitely fair for Henderson to get that fight right off the bat... even though there have been mixed signals in the news reports about it, it looks like that is a unification bout with Rampage, so the winner is gonna walk out with both UFC and PRIDE 205 belts. So much for keeping PRIDE as a separate entity... I figured that wasn't going to happen all along though. Takanori Gomi reportedly signing with K-1 Heroes is definitely a signal that they don't plan on running PRIDE even as a Japanese-centric promotion, heavily focused on the Japanese fighters. I thought for a while they'd do that at the very least. Fedor will immediately be fighting the UFC Heavyweight champ in similar fashion, a unification bout, I'd imagine.

Anyway, yeah, the Gonzaga fight definitely demystified Cro Cop to many, especially to the fans who were new to Mirko, the ones whom he was being built up to. But anyone that has known him knows he bounces back well from losses. I wasn't shocked that Gonzaga won that fight, but definitely was shocked with the fashion of winning, a head kick KO right out of Mirko's playbook. Which basically means, yeah, if Gonzaga could do it, then Kongo certainly can too with his kickboxing background. But I bet ya Cro Cop is way more focused.

Cyclone792
09-07-2007, 04:48 PM
Rampage vs. Henderson

Who ya got?

I'll take Rampage.

I've also got Cro Cop, Bisping, Alexander, Davis, and Silva winning their fights. Most of the rest of the undercards I'm not familiar enough to pick a winner, unfortunately.

M2
09-07-2007, 05:57 PM
I'll go with Rampage, Bisping, Congo (I doubt Cro Cop's ever going to be able to much of a shot to the dome after what Gonzaga did to him), Taylor, Alexander, Etim (he looked good on the last free card show in April), Silva, Kotani (I figure the UFC is desperate for some Japanese fighters to get some wins so they set Kotani up with a creampuff), Torres

Javy Pornstache
09-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Just now noticed this thread, I went 7-2 in my picks, took the underdog in five of the nine fights, and got four of those, and should have gotten the fifth (abomination of a decision in the Bisping-Hamill fight). The other fight I missed was an underdog I picked against that did win - Kongo. Kudos to M2 for calling that one. I had the Rampage, Davis, Alexander, Silva, Tibau, Siver and Liaudin picks all right, down to how they won in every fight except one (had Siver winning by decision over Kotani, but he won by KO).

The Bisping-Hamill decision was infuriating.

Cyclone792
09-09-2007, 05:42 PM
Of the fights I picked, I went 5-1 with Cro Cop being the only loss. Actually, I should have gone 4-2 because Matt Hamill did not lose that fight last night.

I very much enjoyed the Rampage/Henderson fight, and I thought it was a pretty good fight. I'd expect Henderson to go down to middleweight now (is he fighting the winner of Rich/Silva next?) and probably stay there permanently.

Also, what's up with Cro Cop? I know he hates to cut weight, but it looks like he could use dropping down to light-heavyweight to try to get back on the winning track.

M2
09-09-2007, 09:13 PM
Also, what's up with Cro Cop? I know he hates to cut weight, but it looks like he could use dropping down to light-heavyweight to try to get back on the winning track.

He looks like a fighter who's taken too much punishment.

Kongo never caught him with a haymaker, but a few times you could see that shots to the head were shutting down Cro Cop's circuitry. You see this happen with boxers too. Basically what happens is the primary brain cells that control parts of his motor function are gone and it's not too hard to rattle the backup system.

I didn't see Cro Cop's fights right before Gonzaga, but fighters don't come back from knockouts like the Gonzaga inflicted upon him

I doubt dropping to light heavyweight would help. Rampage, Chuck, Tito, Evans, Griffin, Alexander, Jardine - there's a lot of guys who can rattle your cage at that level.

On a separate note, why doesn't the UFC have top 10 rankings?

TeamSelig
09-10-2007, 12:56 AM
Hamill was ROBBED

Javy Pornstache
09-10-2007, 01:49 AM
Of the fights I picked, I went 5-1 with Cro Cop being the only loss. Actually, I should have gone 4-2 because Matt Hamill did not lose that fight last night.

I very much enjoyed the Rampage/Henderson fight, and I thought it was a pretty good fight. I'd expect Henderson to go down to middleweight now (is he fighting the winner of Rich/Silva next?) and probably stay there permanently.

Also, what's up with Cro Cop? I know he hates to cut weight, but it looks like he could use dropping down to light-heavyweight to try to get back on the winning track.

Regarding Henderson, it'd be nice for him to stay at middleweight, you'd think he's definitely better off in that weight class, though traditionally he's fought better at 205, despite always being the smaller guy in a fight (incidentally, the Rampage fight is the ONLY time in his light heavyweight fights that he's actually approached the weight limit at weigh-in time - he came in at 204, whereas he normally is anywhere from 195-199). It'd work out perfectly for him to fight the Silva-Franklin winner if they want to unify those titles, especially since there's absolutely no clear-cut top contender after the Silva-Franklin fight. Problem is, coming off a loss to Rampage (even though a highly competitive fight), it'd be hard marketing-wise to put him right back in another main event situation, especially to newer fans that don't know much of Hendo's credentials.

Who else can possibly be the next top contender at middleweight? Paulo Filho would've been the definitive answer, but they assigned him to WEC when Zuffa absorbed his contract from PRIDE. There's an undercard fight at the Cincinnati show in October between Yushin Okami and Jason MacDonald, who are possibly the third and fourth-ranked middleweights in the UFC right now; however, if Franklin were to win the title back, there'd be a problem having him the winner of the fight so quickly, seeing as he's already beaten both of them in 2007. Evan Tanner and Dean Lister are fighting in December, and both certainly have the credentials to be a top contender, so it may be the winner of that to get the next shot - which means a chance of Franklin-Tanner III. I really don't see any other options from within the UFC currently.

Regarding Cro Cop and a weight drop, that's been a good idea for years now, but as M2 alluded to, he's just not the same fighter he was. He's always fought at 215-220, which is the same weight most light heavyweights rehydrate to after coming in at 205. But I don't think he's losing to the likes of Gabriel Gonzaga and Cheick Kongo because of size differential (taking nothing away from either of those fighters). There's more to it than that, and Mirko has spoken of retirement in the not-too-distant past, and I wouldn't be shocked if he did retire within the next year. What else are you going to do with him? Coming off two losses, who they gonna sell his next fight against? He's signed to the richest free agent contract in MMA history, so it's not like he can be written off to preliminary bouts or anything.

Javy Pornstache
09-10-2007, 02:04 AM
He looks like a fighter who's taken too much punishment.

Kongo never caught him with a haymaker, but a few times you could see that shots to the head were shutting down Cro Cop's circuitry. You see this happen with boxers too. Basically what happens is the primary brain cells that control parts of his motor function are gone and it's not too hard to rattle the backup system.

I didn't see Cro Cop's fights right before Gonzaga, but fighters don't come back from knockouts like the Gonzaga inflicted upon him

I doubt dropping to light heavyweight would help. Rampage, Chuck, Tito, Evans, Griffin, Alexander, Jardine - there's a lot of guys who can rattle your cage at that level.

On a separate note, why doesn't the UFC have top 10 rankings?

You absolutely have missed Mirko at his very best if you haven't seen him before Gonzaga. If you meant the literal subsequent fights before Gonzaga, that was perhaps Mirko at his best... the Open Weight Grand Prix championship in PRIDE, where he decimated Ikuhisa "The Punk" Minowa, Olympic gold medalist judoka Hidehiko Yoshida, Wanderlei Silva and Josh Barnett to win the tourney in his four 2006 fights, and his first UFC fight in January of this year, he looked pretty good against Eddie Sanchez (albeit he is not nearly at the level of the guys he beat in the PRIDE Grand Prix, or Gonzaga or Kongo for that matter).

You are correct though that, most of the time, at least, fighters don't come back from knockouts like that, and that's across the board.... boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, MMA, whatever. The aforementioned Wanderlei Silva is another recent example of an MMA idol who just hasn't been the same (ironically, it was Cro Cop who delivered that devastating KO to Silva). Guys just have a hard time being the same following that, and it truly does mess up their reflexes.

I mentioned this in the last post, but I don't think weight cutting has anything to do with this for this reason. But, if Cro Cop WAS at his best, he should absolutely destroy everyone in M2's list of LHWs in the UFC with the exception of Rampage and Liddell. Not to say he wouldn't win those fights, but I don't think it'd be a one-sided brutalization as it would to Griffin, Jardine, etc.

About the non-existent top-ten rankings... I dunno? Good question. A lot of MMA journalism sites rank them, but UFC doesn't list their own contenders, at least in this day and age of its large popularity surge.

halcyon
09-10-2007, 04:47 PM
Someone mentioned to me that Kongo broke one of Cro Cop's ribs in the first round with those knees of his. This would explain some of his tentativeness, if true. That particular fight was a disappointment to me. Although, I thought McCarthy coulda docked Kongo a point for all of the knees that made contact with Mirko's groin. That woulda made it a draw, albeit a nearly-as-disappointing draw.

Cyclone792
09-10-2007, 05:07 PM
Interesting perspective from the DDN on the Hamill/Bisping decision ...

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/2007/09/09/ddn091007inside.html


Cincinnati native Hamill is snubbed in London event
By Dann Stupp
Contributing Writer

Monday, September 10, 2007

Quinton Jackson defeated Dan Henderson to become the sport's undisputed 205-pound champ, and the once-invincible Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic was upset by Frenchman Cheick Kongo.

But the biggest story line coming out of Saturday's UFC 75 event in London, England, is a controversial split-decision win for Michael Bisping over Cincinnati native Matt Hamill.

How controversial?

Consider that Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports (formerly the longtime Las Vegas Journal-Review combat writer), Mike Chiappetta of NBCSports.com, Sam Caplan of CBSSports.com, Damon Martin of MMAWeekly.com, and John Chandler of MMAonTap.com — some of the elite of the MMA media — and yours truly (after re-watching the fight no fewer than five times) all felt that Hamill won the fight and was robbed of the decision.

Saturday's light-heavyweight battle went the full three rounds, and under a 10-point-must system, Bisping won it with scores of 29-28, 29-28 and 27-30.

In other words, two judges (both from the U.S.) thought Bisping won the fight two rounds to one, while the third judge (ironically, from the U.K.) thought the American won all three.

So why has the outrage turned to cries of conspiracy?

Hamill looked to have won the first two rounds decidedly, and only the third appeared as though it could go either way. Hamill controlled the pace, scored takedowns, established ring control and, surprisingly, was the better striker.

Additionally, consider that Bisping, a local product fighting in front of a hometown crowd, was the winner of "The Ultimate Fighter 3," the UFC's popular reality series. He's locked into a long-term contract, and like other winners, plenty of money and resources are invested into building up his young career.

Although Hamill is an inspirational story — he was born deaf but went on to a decorated amateur wrestling career — the UFC benefits more with a Bisping victory.

And finally, what the pundits feel is the nail in the coffin: Because England has no athletic commission, the UFC was responsible for regulating the event. UFC Vice President of Regulatory Affairs Marc Ratner was charged with the tasks of drug testing the fighters and choosing officials to judge the fights.

As the former head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, Ratner was more than capable of performing the duties, but the conflict of interest isn't going unnoticed.

So was there really a conspiracy? Was Bisping the predetermined winner?

It's doubtful.

The mockery of a decision was probably a case of poor officiating rather than behind-the-scenes shenanigans.

In a sport still judged primarily by boxing officials, perhaps this latest travesty will encourage UFC and state officials to reconsider the requirements for judging MMA contests.

It won't make things right for Hamill, but it's a start.

Dann Stupp is editor-in-chief of MMAjunkie.com, a content-partner site of Yahoo! Sports. Check out www.mmajunkie.com for a full rundown of UFC 75.

This is what Stupp wrote on his blog at mmajunkie.com on the decision ... he goes into a bit more detail here ...


Since launching this site nearly a year ago, I’ve witnessed more than a few controversial stories surrounding the UFC. But never have I seen so many people defending the same side of an argument as I did yesterday. MMAjunkie.com commenters and emailers were livid that Michael Bisping was awarded a decision victory over Matt Hamill at UFC 75 — and they want to know why we weren’t doing anything about it.

I’m no crusader, though. I just try to cover the news. But the outcry over the controversial decision was so loud that I figured I’d give the fight another look.

When I first watched the fight on Spike TV’s broadcast Saturday night, I had already been tipped off to the outcome (remember: the fight was shown via tape delay, so the results were readily available before the event’s broadcast). If you go back to our UFC 75 live commentary, you’ll see that my initial reaction was that Bisping had won the fight. However, I’ll be the first to admit that my view was probably swayed by knowing the fight’s outcome beforehand, and when “live blogging” a fight, I spend as much time looking at my keyboard as I do the fight.

So yesterday afternoon, I found UFC 75 in my DVR, muted the sound, and watched the fight at least five times. I didn’t want to be influenced by anything, so I sat there studying the fight in perfect silence. And I was finally convinced: Hamill won the fight. In fact, I scored it 30-28 for Hamill, giving him the first and second rounds, and calling the third round a draw (though I could understand someone giving Bisping the final frame).

I decided to devote my column in today’s edition of the Dayton Daily News to this topic, and while preparing, I contacted a few other writers about the fight. Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports (also a longtime combat writer for the Las Vegas Journal-Review) perhaps put it best: “I thought Hamill set the pace and was the more effective fighter.“

He’s not the only one. More than 89 percent of voters on a UFC.com poll felt that Hamill won the fight.

So, for those of you who were upset that I didn’t question the fight’s decision, I suggest that you check out today’s column. (But be prepared: I’m not buying into the notion that there’s a conspiracy at play.)

You can read the column at DaytonDailyNews.com.

M2
09-10-2007, 06:09 PM
The crowd and reputation can often swing a fight. Bisping came into the fight highly regarded and the crowd went nuts whenever he did something right. Stuff like that can convince a judge that a fighter is being more effective than he really is. It's one of the reasons why it pays to fight in your hometown, not that the judges are crooked, that the crowd can sway them.

Along those lines, Silva had better knock out Franklin when they go to Cincinnati. Of course that fight isn't likely to end with a decision in the first place.

Cyclone792
09-20-2007, 06:47 PM
Anybody catch UFC Fight Night last night? Leben and Quarry both looked like they might have been going down via possible decision in each of their fights, but they both stepped up with a late flurry to grab victories. Florian continues to impress at lightweight, though it's a shame that the fight was pretty much over when Din Thomas injured his knee.

Anyhow, UFC 76 is this Saturday night. Who ya got? My main card picks ...

Liddell over Jardine
Shogun over Griffin
Sanchez over Fitch (I really want Fitch to win, though)
Machida over Nakamura
Tavares over Griffin

I can see Liddell coming out with something to prove Saturday night, and that'll be unfortunate for Keith Jardine. Chuck matches up poorly with Rampage, as we've seen with two losses, but he's basically dominated just about everyone else he's faced other than Rampage. I'm also very excited to see Shogun Rua finally in the UFC, and I think some people unfamiliar with Rua may be shocked to see him perform. Part of me thinks that not only will Forrest lose to Rua, but he may just get totally destroyed by Rua.

M2
09-20-2007, 07:45 PM
Florian looked good last night, even with Thomas suffering the injury. He and Spencer Fisher should put on a classic one of these days. Leben's lucky he was in with Terry Martin last night. Middleweight's the best division around these days, IMO, and I expect his wins will become a rarity as he transitions over to professional opponent (kind of like Pete Sell when you get right down to it).

For UFC 76:

Chuck over Jardine, though Jardine seems to do well vs. strikers.

Griffin over Rua, I'll go with the upset here. A lot of the supposed next-big-thing recruits have fallen flat. We'll see how well Rua adapts to the cage and the atmosphere. Also, I think Griffin's got something up his sleeve for this fight.

Sanchez over Fitch, great matchup, but I figure Diego's in a scary place after his loss to Koscheck.

Machida over Nakamura, it should be a slaughter

Tavares over Griffin, why not? someone's got to win

halcyon
09-21-2007, 10:22 AM
Regarding Fight Night: I agree with most everything you guys said. I enjoyed the Leben fight cuz I was certain he was done. He got lucky dropping that haymaker on a very tired Terry Martin's chin. It was a gutsy effort. I also enjoyed Quarry's fight. He showed a lot of courage.

For 76:
Liddell over Jardine - I figure whoever wins this fight is going to do it in an explosive fashion.

Rua over Griffin - I just can't see Rua losing this fight despite the recent Pride disapointments. Though I like Griffin, I kinda hope that Rua just annihilates him and sets up a future matchup for him to take on Rampage.

Machida over Nakamura - I gotta disagree with M2 on this one. Nakamura has a number of losses but all of them have been to very quality opponents. I think Machida wins in a decision.

Fitch over Sanchez - I could go either way on this fight, so since I want Fitch to win I'm going to go with him. I'm in a UFC fantasy league with some friends so I want to root for the guy I want to win in this case.

Griffin over Tavares - Again, I could go either way here. I have Griffin in this one although it wouldn't surprise me to see Tavares submit him.

Javy Pornstache
09-21-2007, 02:32 PM
One thing about Jardine is he has, maybe next to only Wilson Gouveia, the nastiest leg kicks in the light heavyweight division. The one thing that gives Jardine a chance is if he gets a chance to work over Liddell's bad wheels with those kicks. I don't even know when the last time Chuck himself threw a kick in a fight was, because his knees are so bad now. On the other hand, throwing leg kicks also opens you up for a counterpuncher, which is how Liddell primarily destroys people when he's on so I'm sure Jardine will be weary of that.

Again, newer fans to the sport probably won't see Shogun at his best as they've missed with some of the other PRIDE fighters coming over since the consolidation, as I think Shogun with soccer kicks and stomps is the most FEROCIOUS fighter on the planet. Without them, but with elbows legal in UFC, he's still very dangerous. You never know these days with how things turn out, but talent-wise, on paper, he should easily dispatch Forrest Griffin.

Matt Hughes and Josh Koscheck may get all the notoriety, but there's another top-level wrestler in the welterweight division, and it's Jon Fitch. He certainly has the capability to neutralize Diego Sanchez and control his way to a decision win. Only thing is Fitch had some trouble getting caught in guillotine and anaconda chokes in his last fight against Roan Carneiro while performing takedowns and barely escaped the chokes, and while Carneiro is a higher-level jiujitsu artist than Sanchez, Diego has the big fight experience on Carneiro, strength and I agree that he's gonna be hungry following the loss to Koscheck. Perhaps feeding fuel to his fire is that Fitch is Koscheck's primary training partner at AKA.

Kazuhiro Nakamura is a top-level judoka under the tutelage of Hidehiko Yoshida. He's a top ten light heavyweight in the world, and still pretty underrated despite that, as he was always lost in the PRIDE 205 class amongst Wanderlei Silva, Shogun, Rampage, Ricardo Arona, Rogerio "Lil' Nog" Nogueira, Alistair Overeem, etc. This has decision written all over it, as Lyoto Machida has an uncanny ability to completely pick someone apart on the feet, but not quite finish them, while Nakamura has a great takedown and position-control game. I'll take Machida by decision.

Tyson Griffin-Thiago Tavares is a phenomenal fight on paper. This could be Tyson's third straight fight of the year candidate in 2007 (joining his split decision loss to Frankie Edgar and split decision win over Clay Guida). I really, really, really like this fight, and the pay-per-view price will be worth it to me for this one. Tavares is the real deal, pretty much "Little Vitor" down to physical resemblence in addition to the fighting style. I am having a tough time picking this, but I'll take Griffin on a hunch by superior conditioning and control due to his top-notch wrestling to give Tavares his first career loss.

On the undercard, I'll take:
Scott Junk by KO over Christian Wellisch
Jeremy Stephens by KO over Diego Saraiva
Matt Wiman by TKO over Michihiro Omigawa
Rich Clementi by sub over Anthony Johnson

M2
09-26-2007, 02:18 PM
Talk about upsets. Jardine, Griffin and Fitch all won. I'm starting to think the U in UFC stands for Underdog.

TeamSelig
09-26-2007, 04:44 PM
This is old news, but how did you guys pick Cro over Kongo? Granted I hadn't watched much of him before, but Kongo is HUGE. I called it as soon as I saw how big he was.

Cedric
09-27-2007, 03:36 AM
My friend that I went to the Seahawks game with is a HUGE UFC fan. I can't believe that Lidell guy was/is ever considered good. He had terrible defense skills and a wild attack. He looked like a tough man contest fighter.

M2
09-28-2007, 02:53 AM
My friend that I went to the Seahawks game with is a HUGE UFC fan. I can't believe that Lidell guy was/is ever considered good. He had terrible defense skills and a wild attack. He looked like a tough man contest fighter.

It was an effective wild attack. It would never work in a zillion years in boxing, but this isn't boxing. In MMA, a puncher has to lunge a bit because otherwise he'll find himself in a wrestling match. What Liddell does is throw a quick haymaker and keeps his balance well enough while doing it to maintain his takedown defense. He put a lot of guys to sleep. It looks like his mobility is fading and it doesn't help that Jardine can kicks your legs crooked.

Though what we might be seeing is the rapid progression of the sport. Arlov, Liddell, Franklin and Hughes were held up as supermen not long ago, four unbeatables holding belts in their respective divisions. Now all four have looked a lot more mortal as new fighters seemingly up the stakes with every event. The Pride guys enjoyed a lot of pub, but most haven't been able to match the level of competition in the UFC.

TeamSelig
09-28-2007, 01:11 PM
You really have to consider age too. MMA fighters really can't continue to fight as well into their mid-late 30s.

M2
09-28-2007, 10:37 PM
You really have to consider age too. MMA fighters really can't continue to fight as well into their mid-late 30s.

With one notable exception.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/sports/070523/s052333A.jpg

Mr. Couture seems to be getting better as he ages.

M2
11-01-2007, 01:05 AM
Anyone watching the current Ultimate Fighter?

It's amazing how much better of a coach Matt Serra is than Matt Hughes. Hughes thinks every fight is about him and he's got his entire stable twisted between the ears. Meanwhile Serra's guys are walking in loose and ready to throw.

I don't think I realized how bad of a coach Hughes was in UF2 because he was up against Rich Franklin, who was every bit as bad as Hughes was. Basically everyone inside that house languished with Hughes and Franklin running things. We now know Rashad Evans and Keith Jardine had plenty of talent and heart, they just needed the proper training. Joe Stevenson, Luke Cummo, Marcus Davis and Josh Burkman have all thrived since UF2, but the first three guys took about a year before they really progressed like we've seen others do from other seasons (Kendall Grove, Josh Koscheck).

I'm gaining a real appreciation for Serra's ability to give something to a group of kids who someday may be kicking his tail. It seems like Hughes needs to assert his alpha male status every 10 seconds.

Javy Pornstache
11-01-2007, 02:41 PM
And the scary thing is Hughes has splintered off from Miletich and started his own full-time training team away from the show, alongside Robbie Lawler and Marc Fiore. I think one of their first fighters in the stable is Corey Hill, the 6'4 giant (by lightweight standards) from The Ultimate Fighter 5 season.

M2
11-01-2007, 03:17 PM
And the scary thing is Hughes has splintered off from Miletich and started his own full-time training team away from the show, alongside Robbie Lawler and Marc Fiore. I think one of their first fighters in the stable is Corey Hill, the 6'4 giant (by lightweight standards) from The Ultimate Fighter 5 season.

Hard to think of a worse advertisement for their gym. They look like a bunch of knuckleheads who'd wreck your career in no time.

IIRC, didn't Tito Ortiz gain a ton of respect and business off of the positive work he did in TUF3? I'd think Jens Pulver (another Miletich guy) carved out a training future for himself in TUF5.

And here's the big question, are Hughes, Fiore and Lawler handling Hughes' training for the Serra matchup? If so, Serra might be looking at another upset victory.

Javy Pornstache
11-01-2007, 04:24 PM
Hard to think of a worse advertisement for their gym. They look like a bunch of knuckleheads who'd wreck your career in no time.

IIRC, didn't Tito Ortiz gain a ton of respect and business off of the positive work he did in TUF3? I'd think Jens Pulver (another Miletich guy) carved out a training future for himself in TUF5.

And here's the big question, are Hughes, Fiore and Lawler handling Hughes' training for the Serra matchup? If so, Serra might be looking at another upset victory.

Yeah, I think the timing of it all is very bad, this season of the show is not doing Hughes any favors at all in spreading goodwill about his new team. I'm sure he won't be hurting for students just because of his fame, but as far as actual name, competitive, full-time fighters looking for a gym, this might be where he's hurt.

You're correct, Ortiz did definitely get an increase in respect off his stint on the show... you could hardly find anyone with a good word to say about him before it.... but especially now with the explosion of popularity in the sport, people who didn't know Tito before that show probably have no idea of his previous reputation.

I would imagine Hughes is still training for the Serra fight at the MFS gym. With his own fight team being so new, I think he'd still be training with the Miletich crew for this fight, especially since his gym still is affiliated with Miletich's. As bad as Serra has made Hughes look from a coaching standpoint, I just can't see him pulling off another victory. Hughes is plainly and simply the better fighter, though we know he's not a better coach. Similar to how we saw the blow-off on Penn vs. Pulver from last season.

Then again, with all the upsets in 2007........

M2
11-01-2007, 05:47 PM
As bad as Serra has made Hughes look from a coaching standpoint, I just can't see him pulling off another victory. Hughes is plainly and simply the better fighter, though we know he's not a better coach. Similar to how we saw the blow-off on Penn vs. Pulver from last season.

Then again, with all the upsets in 2007........

Yeah, hard to ignore the upsets. The sport has progressed an incredible distance in three years time and I wonder if a top dog like Hughes has been motivated enough to keep up with the pace of change (figuring everyone else has to catch him).

I doubt Serra's being complacent about this one. A win against Hughes and he's got a legacy. A loss and he's a one-hit wonder. Plus, you know he wants revenge for Gracie. Serra put on great bouts with Penn and Parysian. He's no slouch. Hughes' main advantage is that Serra really should be fighting at 155 instead of 170.

Cyclone792
12-23-2007, 07:55 PM
UFC 79 is in six days ...

Two years ago Liddell vs. Silva would have been the biggest MMA match in history. It's still pretty big, but with both fighters coming off some recent losses it's lost a bit of its hype. The fight is a bit of a tossup for me, but I'm leaning toward Liddell.

Here's my fight predictions ...

Liddell over Silva
St. Pierre over Hughes
Machida over Sokoudjou
Guillard over Clementi
Sanchez over Palelei
Irvin over Cane
Gamburyan over Mohr
Lister over Radev
DeSouza over Carneiro
Evans over Bocek

gilpdawg
12-23-2007, 11:26 PM
I think Chuck is washed up, and I think Hughes will beat GSP, because GSP took the fight on somewhat short notice.

danken12
12-26-2007, 10:53 AM
UFC 79 is in six days ...

Two years ago Liddell vs. Silva would have been the biggest MMA match in history. It's still pretty big, but with both fighters coming off some recent losses it's lost a bit of its hype. The fight is a bit of a tossup for me, but I'm leaning toward Liddell.

Here's my fight predictions ...

Liddell over Silva......I think this one's too close to call. First one to land flush wins.
St. Pierre over Hughes...... GSP, when mentally ready he's a monster.
Machida over Sokoudjou...... I like sokoudjou via KO.
Guillard over Clementi........Guillard via KO.
Sanchez over Palelei..........don't know.
Irvin over Cane..........I like Irvin as well.
Gamburyan over Mohr.....Gamburyan, I think he's going to do well, despite his size.
Lister over Radev.......Lister
DeSouza over Carneiro........not sure
Evans over Bocek
Put my predictions next to yours.

Should be one of the best UFC's in sometime. There are three great matchups, possibly more. I'm very excited to see what Sokodjou does in the UFC. I think he could be a force, but his inexperience kind of worries me.

Javy Pornstache
12-26-2007, 07:09 PM
I'll add my predictions for UFC 79:

-Hughes over St. Pierre (I'd like to see GSP win and you can't deny his dominating win last year, but I just have a hunch that Hughes is gonna be a different fighter for this one. Plus even though GSP swears it means nothing, I think the much more time Hughes has been in training camp matters.)

-Liddell over Silva (the luster is certainly not what we once thought for this fight, but it's still intriguing. I think Wanderlei is further from his prime fighting shape than Chuck is. I could be wrong, but I think Liddell just got beat by a guy that has his number in Rampage, and had a bad gameplan versus Jardine whereas Wanderlei hasn't looked like the same fighter in several fights, particularly his last two KO losses. Plus you can't argue the PRIDE-to-UFC transition hasn't been kind, and a lot of the former PRIDE fighters have looked "soft" in the body.... maybe the Mitchell Report overlooked them.)

-Machida over Sokoudjou (Interesting matchup on paper, but I see Machida gutting out another of his standard decisions by frustrating Sokoudjou.)

-Clementi over Guillard (Melvin could catch him and KO him, but until he rises above white belt jiujitsu level, he has a real chance of being subbed by Rich.)

-Palelei over Sanchez (Soa is a super tough Samoan-Hawaiian, with a Mark Hunt-style granite chin. Sanchez has more big-time experience, but I like Soa to win this.)

-Lister over Radev (should be an easy sub win for Dean.)

-Gamburyan over Mohr (Mohr's pretty tough, but Manny is a little pit bull in there and I see him controlling a decision win. I'd like to see Gamburyan drop to 145 and fight in the WEC's featherweight division, he's a very small 155.)

-Carneiro over DeSouza (the grappler in me REALLY likes this matchup, and while it's nowhere close to being a marquee fight on a card such as this, I think stylistically, on paper, it has a chance to be fight of the night. Two awesome grapplers, and it's a Nogueira protege against a Penn protege, so that's very cool. I think Roan wins a close fight.)

-Irvin over Cane (tough call here, I'll go with Irvin with much more big fight experience, but this should be a real slugfest.)

-Bocek over Evans (Mark Bocek is possibly the best pure grappler in North America. Of course, that doesn't always translate to MMA, but with Evans being a wrestler first and foremost, I can see Bocek trapping him off his back and catching him with a sub.)

M2
12-27-2007, 09:27 PM
St. Pierre over Hughes, Georges owns that egomaniac
Chuck over Wanderlei, Silva was overrated and the sport has progressed beyond him
Machida over Sokoudjou, experience defeats physique
Guillard over Clementi, Melvin will connect hard with Clementi's head
Sanchez over Palelei, in boxing Palelei would be the classic big guy expected to fall hard
Cane over Irvin, it goes to the ground where Irvin's useless
Gamburyan over Mohr, Manny's got something to prove in the wake of the TUF 5 finale (which he'd have won but for the injury)
Lister over Radev, Lister took this one as a resume padder
DeSouza over Carneiro, based solely on facial hair preference
Bocek over Evans, Evans has no chin (literally, not figuratively)

Mario-Rijo
12-28-2007, 04:40 AM
St. Pierre over Hughes, Georges owns that egomaniac
Chuck over Wanderlei, Silva was overrated and the sport has progressed beyond him
Machida over Sokoudjou, experience defeats physique
Guillard over Clementi, Melvin will connect hard with Clementi's head
Sanchez over Palelei, in boxing Palelei would be the classic big guy expected to fall hard
Cane over Irvin, it goes to the ground where Irvin's useless
Gamburyan over Mohr, Manny's got something to prove in the wake of the TUF 5 finale (which he'd have won but for the injury)
Lister over Radev, Lister took this one as a resume padder
DeSouza over Carneiro, based solely on facial hair preference
Bocek over Evans, Evans has no chin (literally, not figuratively)

Silva was a beast over in Pride, I am not ready to admit that just yet. Liddell however better figure out what the problem is and fast if he loses this one it'll be back to square 1 for him.

"My gut says"
Hughes over GSP - Submission
Liddell over Silva - KO
Sokoudjou over Machida - KO
Guillard over Clementi - KO
Sanchez over Palelei - Ground and Pound TKO
Irvin over Cane - KO
Gamburyan over Mohr - Submission
Lister over Radev - Unanimous Decision
Carniero over DeSouza - Split Decision
Evans over Bocek- KO

BTW in case some haven't heard it will be Forrest Griffin and Rampage Jackson as the coaches for the next TUF season. Which frankly cracks me up as I am not sure I see either as a viable "coach".

But for the fight afterwards between the 2 I gotta go with Rampage unless he get's too comfortable/lazy and isn't ready for a war.

Javy Pornstache
12-29-2007, 01:16 AM
-Hughes over St. Pierre (I'd like to see GSP win and you can't deny his dominating win last year, but I just have a hunch that Hughes is gonna be a different fighter for this one. Plus even though GSP swears it means nothing, I think the much more time Hughes has been in training camp matters.)

Ok, so I may have to amend my own statement after seeing clips of St. Pierre's INSANE training camp. While I still think that the pure time of the training camp matters, there is a HUGE difference in the Olympic-style training camp with all the specialists that St. Pierre is taking part in, versus Matt Hughes throwing down some mats on a basketball court while waiting for his gym to be completed (as earlier discussed in this thread). He's not even training with the Militech crew for this without his gym being open. It could work against Georges, too - Hughes could just be winding down his training (the most intense training is generally over a couple weeks before the fight) while St. Pierre has taken a crash course Olympic style camp to get ready for this.

In other news, I didn't see it, but heard there were some real fireworks in the Liddell-Silva weigh-in earlier tonight. This is going to be a really interesting show, hard to argue a better double main event than this (losing streak or not for Liddell and Silva) in a while, and some good, under-the-radar prelims that are gravy on top of this.

gilpdawg
12-30-2007, 01:06 AM
Liddell/Silva was a pretty good one.

Spoiler warning.......






















































Chuck won by unanimous decision.

Hughes/GSP coming up next.

Cyclone792
12-30-2007, 11:12 AM
Liddell/Silva was a pretty good one.

Yep, Liddell/Silva was a good fight that thankfully lived up to much of the hype. It also went pretty close to how I thought it would go in being a slugfest that tipped in Chuck's favor, though Silva also landed some nice shots.

St. Pierre absolutely dominated Hughes, and that submission was simply beautiful. I think Georges is taking the welterweights to a new level, and it may be awhile before somebody knocks him off; I think Serra's win over him was a fluke. I fully expect St. Pierre to knock Serra off in the rematch.

Machida got a nice submission win and should be moving up the ladder to contend for the belt.

Overall good card, IMO.

Javy Pornstache
12-31-2007, 12:46 AM
Machida has been deserving of a title shot for sometime, but it'll especially be hard to deny him now. I know Sokoudjou had quite a bandwagon going and "Houston Alexander" treatment, but not at all surprised that Machida put an end to his hot streak.

Problem for Lyoto is that they are locked into Rampage-Forrest, which won't be happening till late spring/early summer probably, and even after that, you can make a strong case for Jardine getting the next title shot, what with wins over Forrest and Chuck among his last three fights. I do think Liddell-Machida as a top contender fight does make an awful lot of sense. And Wanderlei against either of the aforementioned Sokoudjou or Alexander would be nice too, and a good rebound win for whoever takes it. I can't believe how loaded the 205 division is compared even to this time last year.

M2
12-31-2007, 01:39 AM
While I still think that the pure time of the training camp matters, there is a HUGE difference in the Olympic-style training camp with all the specialists that St. Pierre is taking part in, versus Matt Hughes throwing down some mats on a basketball court while waiting for his gym to be completed (as earlier discussed in this thread). He's not even training with the Militech crew for this without his gym being open. It could work against Georges, too - Hughes could just be winding down his training (the most intense training is generally over a couple weeks before the fight) while St. Pierre has taken a crash course Olympic style camp to get ready for this.

The progression of the sport has been amazing. St. Pierre, essentially, has mobilized Canada for his training. The rapid advancement has caught some gyms by surprise. Miletich and Team Quest were state of the art not too long ago and now they're really struggling. Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture, to their credit, have stayed ahead of the curve.

Expect top level boxing instruction to become the next big thing in training. If you're going to collect black belts and get Olympic-level wrestling training, then you'd probably be wise to spend some time learning from Buddy McGirt too, just to keep your bases covered.

It's creating a real interesting landscape. The post-TUF 1 explosion has left the Pride stable in the dirt. Maybe those guys were better five years ago, but they've been lapped since then. Everyone's more mobile, striking has become faster and more direct, transitions come from nowhere (just ask Jared Rollins), the quality of defense has taken quantum leaps (Chuck Liddell made it to the top thanks to his sprawl as much as his striking).

The progression has blown apart the UFC's attempts at establishing the Hughes/Franklin/Liddell/Arlovski pantheon. The sport's accelerated past those guys for the most part. Silva, GSP and possibly B.J. Penn look like the new pantheon and don't be surprised if by 2009 or 2010 that they've been eclipsed by a new wave. I think Forrest vs. Rampage is going to be an eye-opener for a lot of folks. Everyone's thinking Rampage is going over in that one, but who has he beaten? He took out Liddell, who's on the downside, and then he beat Pride's Dan Henderson. Meanwhile Griffin's about as well-rounded a fighter as you can find and he beat the absolute best Pride had to offer in Shogun Rua (who, not coincidentally, once stomped Rampage). Just a guess, but Griffin, Evans, Machida and Jardine might the real class of the light heavyweight division. IMO, the jury's still out on whether Jackson can hang with post-revolution fighters. We may learn a lot from Silva vs. Henderson. If Silva puts Henderson to sleep, something Rampage couldn't do, then look for Forrest to pick apart the champ.

MMA's had a Jack Johnson moment, where the overall skill level has vaulted forward. The entire way people fight has changed. I suggest Fedor Emelianenko keep his reputation sterling by steering far clear of the UFC. The heavyweight division has been the slowest to react to the changes in the sport, but it might only take a year to catch up.

Javy Pornstache
12-31-2007, 02:16 AM
Very nice post, M2, and I agree with the most of it. There are definitely more and more fighters taking up residence in boxing gyms just recently, in the last six months or so, training with top-level boxers. I've long thought that it would be a smart thing to do, but a lot are hesitant to, for whatever reason. More seem to be bucking that thought lately, though.

As far as the new era in fighting... there has certainly been a change in MMA fights over the last year or so compared to how it's been. Longtime fans of the sport will note that it's very cyclical in what the dominating facet of the game is, it's like a different era takes over every several years or so. The one thing that's stuck in my head about why the highly-decorated international fighters, and certainly PRIDE fighters in particular, are struggling so much when fighting in the States, especially against younger guys they're perceived to easily defeat, is the fact that WRESTLING is the particular part of the game that seems underdeveloped to a lot of these guys.

I'm not painting a wide brush and saying every fighter in PRIDE has deficient wrestling skills, but the most occuring theme in some of these upsets to me has been how the favorite has been controlled and position-dominated in these fights. Gabriel Gonzaga is known as a jiujitsu guy primarily (and will forever be known as a striker for good or bad due to the head kick KO of Cro Cop) but his wrestling is also top-notch and that's what he used to dominate Mirko to set up the finish. Forrest Griffin played the control game with Shogun Rua perfectly. It's happened in many other instances as well. I think more than any other aspect of mixed martial arts, wrestling for MMA is levels above here in the States (not to discount the success of pure amateur wrestling in other parts of the world, particularly the Middle East and Eastern Europe, neither of which have a particularly strong presence in the sport of MMA).

Regarding the Rampage-Forrest thing... knowing how things have been upside-down lately as a result of all this, I wouldn't be shocked to see Griffin pull the upset. But at the same time, I still wouldn't expect it. As M2 was saying, some guys have fallen behind the curve in training in today's MMA it seems - however, Quinton Jackson is not one of them. His camp is eons better today than it was even a year ago. Juanito Barrera is putting an awesome camp together out west and Rampage is the focal point of it. Rampage, incidentally, is one of the guys who DOES train with pure boxers, most notably, Shane Moseley. And 'MMAth', as we like to call it, often doesn't mean anything - Fighter A beat Fighter B and Fighter B beat Fighter C, so Fighter A naturally could beat Fighter C. It works that way a lot, but not always. Shogun did handle Rampage, due to Rampage's inability to defend the Thai clinch. Then again, I'm sure Randy Couture is well aware of this, and the Thai clinch will be fully worked on in the Xtreme Couture sessions with Forrest leading up to the fight.

M2
12-31-2007, 02:31 AM
And, just for fun, here's some random fantasy bookings:

Heavyweight - Brock Lesnar (if he beats Frank Mir convincingly) vs. Andre Arlovski

Supposedly Arlovski has one fight left on his deal with the UFC and then he's off to fight Emilianenko. If Lesnar looks like the real thing, then feed him the former champ.

Light Heavyweight - Rashad Evans vs. Chuck Liddell

Winner gets a title crack at the Rampage-Forrest victor.

Middleweight - Mike Bisping vs. Martin Kampmann

This division needs a great fight and these two could provide it.

Welterweight - Josh Koscheck vs. Matt Hughes

As close as you can get to a true professional wrestling match.

Lightweight - B.J. Penn vs. Floyd Mayweather

Mark Cuban says Mayweather would try MMA for a mega payday, well Penn's just the guy to give it to him. Boxer vs. jiu jitsu freakazoid with the unofficial title of "best fighter in the world" up for grabs. Cuban would surely want to own the action on the fight, but he's got no opponents for Mayweather in that weight class. The UFC owns the lightweight division. If Mayweather isn't just goofing around, and he probably is, then this is the fight and the UFC is the only body that can stage it properly (venue, promotion, legitimacy of sanctioning body). In fact, this could be the bout that puts MMA inside Madison Square Garden, cracking it open to an even wider audience. Cuban's promotion can try to make money on the ensuing windfall in the sport.

M2
12-31-2007, 02:47 AM
The one thing that's stuck in my head about why the highly-decorated international fighters, and certainly PRIDE fighters in particular, are struggling so much when fighting in the States, especially against younger guys they're perceived to easily defeat, is the fact that WRESTLING is the particular part of the game that seems underdeveloped to a lot of these guys.

Excellent observation. Jake O'Brien basically laid out the blueprint for how to make a Pride fighter look silly when he took apart Heath Herring. Not coincidentally, Rampage probably had the best wrestling skills in the Pride stable.

I also think the cage in combination with the wrestling is a problem for a lot of the Pride guys. They get lost once they're pinned against the fence and they don't understand how to position themselves in relation to the cage when they're on the ground.

Then eliminate a few shortcuts on which they've come to rely (no stomps, no knees to the head of a downed opponent) and you've got some throughly confused fighters. They're going for one-shot knockouts because they've got nothing else.

Fair point about MMAth, though I think Silva may demystify Dan Henderson's chin, opening some minds to the possibility that Griffin might be able to take similar punishment from Jackson while being able to fire back with a much better arsenal.

Javy Pornstache
12-31-2007, 03:16 AM
And, just for fun, here's some random fantasy bookings:

Heavyweight - Brock Lesnar (if he beats Frank Mir convincingly) vs. Andre Arlovski

Supposedly Arlovski has one fight left on his deal with the UFC and then he's off to fight Emilianenko. If Lesnar looks like the real thing, then feed him the former champ.

Light Heavyweight - Rashad Evans vs. Chuck Liddell

Winner gets a title crack at the Rampage-Forrest victor.

Middleweight - Mike Bisping vs. Martin Kampmann

This division needs a great fight and these two could provide it.

Welterweight - Josh Koscheck vs. Matt Hughes

As close as you can get to a true professional wrestling match.

Lightweight - B.J. Penn vs. Floyd Mayweather

Mark Cuban says Mayweather would try MMA for a mega payday, well Penn's just the guy to give it to him. Boxer vs. jiu jitsu freakazoid with the unofficial title of "best fighter in the world" up for grabs. Cuban would surely want to own the action on the fight, but he's got no opponents for Mayweather in that weight class. The UFC owns the lightweight division. If Mayweather isn't just goofing around, and he probably is, then this is the fight and the UFC is the only body that can stage it properly (venue, promotion, legitimacy of sanctioning body). In fact, this could be the bout that puts MMA inside Madison Square Garden, cracking it open to an even wider audience. Cuban's promotion can try to make money on the ensuing windfall in the sport.

Some nice ideas. My take:

Heavyweight: Ordinarily, you have the green guy to MMA facing the former champion, the once-thought indestructible monster, so naturally Arlovski by destruction, right? But you know what? According to our discussion about the wrestlers dominating right now, although Arlovski is an experienced UFC fighter with a good sambo background, I could totally see Lesnar taking him down and holding him to a three-round decision win. Provided he doesn't get tagged in the chin with a knee or punch and KO'ed before scoring a takedown.

Light Heavyweight: Liddell takes this. Evans is a good, young wrestler, but I don't see him being able to take Liddell down, and Evans has been stung by punches by far lesser strikers, although to his credit, hasn't been stopped by one yet. For my money, Evans is still a ways from facing the upper-tier fighters of the division, though he certainly has fantastic upside, possibly more than any other up-and-coming 205er in the UFC. I would prefer to see Evans take on another guy taking off in Thiago Silva, whereas Liddell should face Machida in a top contender's (or at least #2 contender's) bout. Perhaps Evans facing a rising striker such as Sokoudjou or Houston Alexander would be the way to go if you wanted to test him for a future fight with Liddell. There's so much going on in this division. If, in my booking, Liddell-Machida and Evans-Thiago, I'd also like Wanderlei to fight Houston Alexander. Shogun Rua and Tito Ortiz seem to be having a war of words, and a nice chance for one of the big names to get a major win and back on track. That would leave Keith Jardine and Thierry Sokoudjou to be perhaps an interesting matchup to occupy all the top 10 light heavyweights in the UFC.

Middleweight: I like this fight a lot and think Kampmann's kickboxing skills would be too much for Bisping, who should fit in much better in this weight class; unfortunately, Kampmann will be sidelined for a while yet with a pretty severe knee injury, so it may be a while yet. I know he was right in the thick of the middleweight title picture (originally slated to face Rich Franklin in a top contender's bout earlier in the year before getting injured; that was the fight Yushin Okami instead took with Franklin). Speaking of Okami, rumors suggest he will be facing the returning Evan Tanner at UFC 82 in Columbus on March 1st. That should be a heck of a bout, and the winner of that will be the only viable top contender to the Silva-Henderson winner, at this time.

(For the record, I agree that Silva will put away Hendo. Henderson is a phenomenal wrestler, which could work strongly to his advantage against Anderson, yet he tends to ALWAYS stand and trade these days, as he's fallen in love with his overhand right.)

Welterweight: Very interesting fight. To me, Koscheck is the best pure wrestler on the UFC roster and I think he can control Hughes unlike anyone else in the division - with the obvious exception of Georges St. Pierre. Wouldn't be shocked to see Koscheck get the hallmark win of his career here should this fight happen. I think they will still get a payday out of Hughes-Serra before all is said and done, so there may be time for Hughes to have one more fight before that one, since Serra will likely be out till April before unifying the 170 belts with GSP.

Lightweight: I don't buy that this is anything more than a publicity stunt by Floyd Mayweather, seeing that he is a shameless self-promoter, and is very good friends with Mark Cuban and told him he'd help him get the word out about HDNet Fights - well, I'd say this is a good way. In the unlikely event that something does come out of it, maybe he wants a more competitive challenge, I think BJ handles him with ease. Agreed though that HDNet Fights should NOT be the avenue to showcase Mayweather should this actually happen.

Cyclone792
12-31-2007, 08:51 AM
(For the record, I agree that Silva will put away Hendo. Henderson is a phenomenal wrestler, which could work strongly to his advantage against Anderson, yet he tends to ALWAYS stand and trade these days, as he's fallen in love with his overhand right.)

If Dan Henderson is as stubborn as Rich Franklin against Silva, I'll be a wee bit unhappy.

I've always thought Franklin had a good chance to beat Silva if he utilized his wrestling advantage (basically everyone has a wrestling advantage over Silva), took Silva down, gained points on position and applied some ground'n pound. But Franklin was stubborn in thinking he could strike with Silva both times, and each time he got his face restructured. If Dan Henderson fights the logically smart fight by using his massive wrestling advantage, then I can easily see him beating Silva. But if Dan Henderson gets stubborn and thinks he can strike with Silva, I don't think he has much of a chance ... same as Franklin.

Silva's weakness by far is his wrestling; why his opponents - other than Lutter - aren't trying to exploit that, I have no idea. Lutter didn't make weight in his Silva fight and looked like he was about ready to pass out before the fight even started, but even in that condition he nearly stopped Silva. Then he gassed way too easily from dehydration in trying to make weight and got caught in a sub to end the fight.

halcyon
12-31-2007, 04:00 PM
I tend to think that Rampage is a guy who has just improved a lot since his younger days. His all around game is better and I still can't see Forrest beating him.

You guys have mentioned Shogun Rua a few times. He's someone who still interests me a great deal. I was altogether surprised to see Forrest beat him like he did. Perhaps I'm making excuses for him, but Rua's conditioning just looked completely pathetic. I thought he won the first round of that fight. He lost the second round as he got more tired and then just looked exhausted in the third and got dismantled. I hold out hope that he will rebound and display some of his Pride dominance. I would be fascinated by a rematch of him and Rampage at this point.

Javy Pornstache
01-02-2008, 02:09 AM
^^^ You're correct on Rampage, I agree with that. As far as veterans that've been around a while, he's improved his game as much as anyone in some time.

While some of the so-called huge upsets to some folks in 2007 were only mildly surprising to me (Gonzaga over Cro Cop, O'Brien over Herring) or not the least bit surprising at all to me (Couture over Sylvia, Rampage over Liddell), some others were shocking and Forrest beating Shogun was almost as a big an upset to me as Serra over St. Pierre. Shogun was in HORRENDOUS shape for that fight. Alongside his non-conditioning, he also looked ridiculously soft for 205, to the point of where fighting at 185 would look like a real possibility, though it's nothing that I would expect. There was some talk that he had some kind of bad illness that had to do with his horrible shape and lack of cardio, so maybe that explains it. Or maybe he just took Forrest (and more importantly, his coaching at Xtreme Couture) lightly, and got owned. Either way, here's hoping he bounces back strong in 2008. He should be fighting here within the next 2-3 months... I think Tito Ortiz or Keith Jardine are the most likely opponents.

halcyon
01-02-2008, 10:12 AM
M2 also mentioned Fedor. I thought it was a crying shame they couldn't work something out with the UFC. He'd be fun to watch and add needed fame to the heavyweight division. Have you guys seen his latest fight?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sfCuHsxLuLM

Cyclone792
01-02-2008, 08:15 PM
M2 also mentioned Fedor. I thought it was a crying shame they couldn't work something out with the UFC. He'd be fun to watch and add needed fame to the heavyweight division. Have you guys seen his latest fight?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sfCuHsxLuLM

The Japanese like crazy matchups, and they got one there. Choi is a kickboxer with pretty much zero BJJ defense, and it showed there with two arm bars in around a minute.

Mario-Rijo
01-02-2008, 08:40 PM
I would definitely liked to have seen a Fedor vs. Couture matchup it's a real shame that they couldn't get Fedor signed. As much as I like Randy's skill, intelligence and experience I think Emilianenko would be a bit much physically for even him. But stranger things have happened (Serra over GSP would be one of those).

Mario-Rijo
01-02-2008, 08:46 PM
The Japanese like crazy matchups, and they got one there. Choi is a kickboxer with pretty much zero BJJ defense, and it showed there with two arm bars in around a minute.

Choi reminds me of the Chinese version of Sylvia. My god he might make Sylvia look small. But alas as with most guys of that size he isn't quite agile, quick enough for the smaller foe.

M2
01-02-2008, 10:31 PM
I would definitely liked to have seen a Fedor vs. Couture matchup it's a real shame that they couldn't get Fedor signed. As much as I like Randy's skill, intelligence and experience I think Emilianenko would be a bit much physically for even him. But stranger things have happened (Serra over GSP would be one of those).

That post is exactly why Fedor should stay far away from the UFC. He can be an "insider" legend beating up on sub-UFC talents. Couture's been in the epicenter of the sport's progression. He's seeing stuff in the gym, from moves to raw speed and power, that Fedor's never experienced. My guess is Couture would push the pace, get Emilianenko to gas and then rip through him.

Javy Pornstache
01-03-2008, 01:28 AM
^^^ Correct. Couture by fence-pinning relentless wrestler's aggression.

Mario-Rijo
01-03-2008, 01:53 AM
That post is exactly why Fedor should stay far away from the UFC. He can be an "insider" legend beating up on sub-UFC talents. Couture's been in the epicenter of the sport's progression. He's seeing stuff in the gym, from moves to raw speed and power, that Fedor's never experienced. My guess is Couture would push the pace, get Emilianenko to gas and then rip through him.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that. 1st off you assume that father time will continue to be nice to "the natural", at some point that will no longer be the case, and it could happen at any time. 2nd Fedor hasn't just competed and won in Pride and other stops, but he has pretty much dominated. He has beat a lot of world class wrestler's granted none as talented as Randy but dispatched of them fairly easily.

He can stand and fight with the best of them, both with hands and feet. He is an excellent submissionist and has very good submission defense. And all of that is not taking into account his freak strength, agility and conditioning for a guy who doesn't appear to be all that conditioned. Having said all that Couture would be the best he's ever fought by a landslide and it would certainly be a match for the ages. But I wouldn't be so quick to assume Randy could wear him down and/or rip through him.

M2
01-03-2008, 03:22 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to assume that. 1st off you assume that father time will continue to be nice to "the natural", at some point that will no longer be the case, and it could happen at any time. 2nd Fedor hasn't just competed and won in Pride and other stops, but he has pretty much dominated. He has beat a lot of world class wrestler's granted none as talented as Randy but dispatched of them fairly easily.

He can stand and fight with the best of them, both with hands and feet. He is an excellent submissionist and has very good submission defense. And all of that is not taking into account his freak strength, agility and conditioning for a guy who doesn't appear to be all that conditioned. Having said all that Couture would be the best he's ever fought by a landslide and it would certainly be a match for the ages. But I wouldn't be so quick to assume Randy could wear him down and/or rip through him.

Anything can happen in a fight, but between Emelianenko and Couture, it looks like time's catching up with Emelianenko faster.

Lack of competition has got to be affecting Fedor too. In the past year he's beaten a novelty (Choi) and a middleweight (Lindland). Neither of his 2006 opponents (Mark Hunt and Mark Coleman) have been back in the ring since those fights.

So the two might be well advised to get in the ring before they become yesterday's news.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-28-2008, 06:37 PM
Pretty huge news. CBS has announced they're bringing in EXC's brand of MMA.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AugJ3b0F8Du5zEJvS_KDvkE9Eo14?slug=dm-elitecbs022808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

kbrake
02-28-2008, 10:41 PM
Love to see MMA going more mainstream but I dont know how well it will fare on CBS.

M2
02-29-2008, 11:57 AM
Love to see MMA going more mainstream but I dont know how well it will fare on CBS.

My take is Elite XC is the XFL of MMA. Maybe they'll get a one-time pop, but I suspect it won't win over many converts and that people who actually like the sport will recognize it as a deficient product.

westofyou
02-29-2008, 12:09 PM
If I want to watch a couple of guys with no shirts on fight I hang out at the convenience store on Saturday night.

Mario-Rijo
12-28-2008, 10:57 AM
Geez what a card last night and some interesting developments. I was pretty floored to see Evans take out Griffin. I knew it was possible what with Evans power and explosiveness but figured Griffin had the chin to handle it. Was glad to see Rampage get a much needed win and in grand fashion. Mir taking out Big Nog was a bit surprising as well.


But aside from the actual outcomes I saw a lot of questionable (and some not so questionable) acts of classlessness from the winners. Evans tap of his crotch at Griffin, Rampage striking Silva not once but 3 times after he was obviously out (1 I could have understood) and Mir's cockiness on display with his disrespect of Lesnar.

What say you?

Cyclone792
12-28-2008, 01:31 PM
Rashad Evans is the definition of classless, and I can't wait to see him get knocked off. Of course, it all depends who the UFC wants to give a title shot to.

I do think the winner of Machida and Silva could knock off Evans without much problem. Unfortunately, if it's Machida then we'd be stuck with the prospect of a a relatively boring fight that would end in a decision, because Machida's style is just tactical advantages. He'd just score points and stay away from danger. It would work in getting rid of Evans, but the fans would be frustrated.

Ltlabner
12-28-2008, 03:12 PM
Was all geared up last night to watch my first MMA/UFC ass-kicking event with a group of buddies (who are all fans).

Time Warner Cable did everything they could to prevent us from seeing it.

Ended up watching The Dark Knight instead.

Orodle
12-28-2008, 03:32 PM
Wow, how much of this hatred for Evans is because of the love for Forrest? I'm a huge Forrest fan. I am disappointed in Forrest a bit, not for the performance but for the ending, he was attempting to tap from strikes???????? THATS NOT FORREST'S STYLE! haha dont get me wrong I'm not saying that I wouldnt be tapping :)

I did not find Evans classless at all. Forrest has also dared people to hit him and he doesnt get ripped for that. Almost all fighters are cocky...especially the unbeaten ones. Its one of the reasons they are good.

Mario-Rijo
12-29-2008, 12:25 PM
Wow, how much of this hatred for Evans is because of the love for Forrest? I'm a huge Forrest fan. I am disappointed in Forrest a bit, not for the performance but for the ending, he was attempting to tap from strikes???????? THATS NOT FORREST'S STYLE! haha dont get me wrong I'm not saying that I wouldnt be tapping :)

I did not find Evans classless at all. Forrest has also dared people to hit him and he doesnt get ripped for that. Almost all fighters are cocky...especially the unbeaten ones. Its one of the reasons they are good.

Evans disrespectful act of tapping his crotch was just the straw that broke the camels back for me. I like Griffin alot but I was not amused with Evans act at the end of the Liddell fight either I took that to mean disrespect to his opponent but I wasn't sure. He had always shown a bit of a chip on his shoulder which is fine but he had never shown a lack of class that I can recall. 2 fights in a row now he has shown behavior unbecoming of a champion IMO.

Mario-Rijo
12-29-2008, 12:42 PM
Rashad Evans is the definition of classless, and I can't wait to see him get knocked off. Of course, it all depends who the UFC wants to give a title shot to.

I do think the winner of Machida and Silva could knock off Evans without much problem. Unfortunately, if it's Machida then we'd be stuck with the prospect of a a relatively boring fight that would end in a decision, because Machida's style is just tactical advantages. He'd just score points and stay away from danger. It would work in getting rid of Evans, but the fans would be frustrated.

I haven't seen much of Machida actually for whatever reason it seems he and I are playing t.v. tag, neither of us is there when the other is. Silva seems too diverse not to beat him and just as explosive as Evans. My guess is Evans couldn't consistently get close enough to bring his odds up of landing a K.O. punch. Silva probably cuts him down with kicks and lots of movement.

*Oops wrong Silva, I was thinking Anderson for some reason. I forgot that Anderson's forray was 1 fight into the 205 lb division.

TeamSelig
12-29-2008, 01:45 PM
If I want to watch a couple of guys with no shirts on fight I hang out at the convenience store on Saturday night.

Much more to the sport than that. That's like saying with baseball... If I want to watch some guy scratch and adjust himself, I'll look in the mirror. JMO

M2
12-29-2008, 10:57 PM
Rashad's become the villain by wiping out the UFC's darlings Chuck and Forrest. It makes for a compelling story line. In some ways he's the new Jack Johnson. I expect him to mow through the rest of the division over the next year and set up a mega-fight with the Spider.

Javy Pornstache
12-29-2008, 11:34 PM
^ Agreed, as far as his becoming a villain by wiping those two out. I find Evans' act hilarious; he's just channeling some "character" to become a star. It's worked, hasn't it? He was just a "reality show guy" nobody cared about a few months ago, but with his destructions of Liddell and Griffin, he's public enemy #1 in MMA. Well, he and Brock "the WWF guy" Lesnar, who also understands how to make people care about your fight and how to make people want to pay to see you lose.

Re: Lyoto Machida, I, for one, love watching him fight, but then again, I'm a nerd for expertly technical striking. I can see where he's boring to some observers, but his defense and foot movement is art to me.

Cyclone792
12-30-2008, 08:40 AM
I've actually never cared for Evans since he was on TUF. I'm also indifferent on Liddell and Griffin too. It's actually kind of strange because while I don't care for Evans' act, I always though Tito Ortiz was a hoot. :lol:

I would like to see Machida get a title shot if he beats Silva (and for Silva to get a title shot if he beats Machida). Like Javy, I don't mind watching Machida fight, but I do know a great deal of more casual MMA fans can't stand the guy. Nevertheless, he's extremely effective with his style and he's winning fights. If he beats Silva, he deserves the title shot, IMO.

Mario-Rijo
12-30-2008, 08:44 AM
Rashad's become the villain by wiping out the UFC's darlings Chuck and Forrest. It makes for a compelling story line. In some ways he's the new Jack Johnson. I expect him to mow through the rest of the division over the next year and set up a mega-fight with the Spider.

He is becoming a villian to me because of his actions. In baseball I am emotionally invested in the team and it's players, in MMA I have yet to tie myself to any wagons except a good fight (Sans Rich Franklin a bit and Royce Gracie once upon a time). Besides Chuck lost his darling status long ago.

Javy Pornstache
12-30-2008, 02:47 PM
I've actually never cared for Evans since he was on TUF. I'm also indifferent on Liddell and Griffin too. It's actually kind of strange because while I don't care for Evans' act, I always though Tito Ortiz was a hoot. :lol:

I would like to see Machida get a title shot if he beats Silva (and for Silva to get a title shot if he beats Machida). Like Javy, I don't mind watching Machida fight, but I do know a great deal of more casual MMA fans can't stand the guy. Nevertheless, he's extremely effective with his style and he's winning fights. If he beats Silva, he deserves the title shot, IMO.

Yeah, Evans got off to a bad start with the fans by virtue of ridiculously boring fights on TUF and his first few actual UFC fights after TUF. However, once he hooked on with Greg Jackson's camp, he's been a completely different fighter. He had a great wrestling base, but his boxing is now really, really, crisp... I mean like worlds ahead of where it was even a year and a half ago or so. That's a testament to how good the Greg Jackson camp is. Without Jackson's training, neither Evans nor Jardine beat Liddell, imo, but that's another discussion.

Agreed one million percent that the winner of Machida-Silva deserves the next title shot. Machida has deserved one for a while, and if Thiago wins this one, he certainly should be in line, as an undefeated fighter who was already considered the top prospect at 205 in the world prior to coming to UFC and beating a top three fighter in the class should solidify his shot. I'm afraid that Lyoto will keep missing out on his shot for his perceived lack of action, but I think he has to get the shot if he wins this one if for lack of other options - the only other choice was the winner of Rampage-Wanderlei, and from what I've heard, Rampage requested a rematch with Griffin when broached about getting the first title shot at Rashad.

Mario-Rijo
12-31-2008, 03:14 PM
Yeah, Evans got off to a bad start with the fans by virtue of ridiculously boring fights on TUF and his first few actual UFC fights after TUF. However, once he hooked on with Greg Jackson's camp, he's been a completely different fighter. He had a great wrestling base, but his boxing is now really, really, crisp... I mean like worlds ahead of where it was even a year and a half ago or so. That's a testament to how good the Greg Jackson camp is. Without Jackson's training, neither Evans nor Jardine beat Liddell, imo, but that's another discussion.

Agreed one million percent that the winner of Machida-Silva deserves the next title shot. Machida has deserved one for a while, and if Thiago wins this one, he certainly should be in line, as an undefeated fighter who was already considered the top prospect at 205 in the world prior to coming to UFC and beating a top three fighter in the class should solidify his shot. I'm afraid that Lyoto will keep missing out on his shot for his perceived lack of action, but I think he has to get the shot if he wins this one if for lack of other options - the only other choice was the winner of Rampage-Wanderlei, and from what I've heard, Rampage requested a rematch with Griffin when broached about getting the first title shot at Rashad.

While maybe not the most intelligent business decision that's the type of move that can be respected.

Javy Pornstache
01-25-2009, 03:32 PM
Well: So much for Freddie Roach all but guaranteeing that Andrei Arlovski would knock Fedor Emelianenko from his pedestal - Arlovski did have a boxer's good footwork before being faceplanted with a ferocious right from "The Last Emperor" last night. Freddie doesn't understand that MMA striking and boxing striking aren't the same from all the interviews that I've seen him give in recent weeks. Even though this is titled "UFC Discussion", a fantastic event by Affliction last night that deserves some props.

For boxing fans out there, a hell of a showing by Shane Mosley last night too - drinking from the same fountain of youth as his boy B-Hop, apparently, with his absolute demolition of Antonio Margarito.

WEC show tonight (Sunday) featuring Jamie Varner and Donald Cerrone in what should be a great striking bout... and a weird, pointless rematch between Urijah Faber and Jens Pulver, but hey, they're names, so that's probably what Sean Shelby was going for in booking that bout.

Oh, plus it's now officially St. Pierre-Penn week :)

kbrake
01-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Looking very much forward to St. Pierre Penn going to be a great fight though I think UFC 94 as a card will have a hard time being better than Affliction was last Saturday night. That was a great night of fighting and yes Fedor really is just a machine.

Javy Pornstache
01-29-2009, 04:05 PM
^ I don't know, I think UFC's cards from top-to-bottom have been terrible lately, and loved the Affliction show, but this is one UFC event they could have sold with just the one good fight, and they managed to put some more really interesting fights on it. Lyoto Machida-Thiago Silva is a battle of unbeatens, with the winner HOPEFULLY being the next top contender to the 205 title. Nate Diaz-Clay Guida should be nonstop excitement. Karo Parisyan and Dong-Hyun Kim are the two best judokas in the UFC, so it'll be interesting to see how they fight each other (probably all standup). Jon Fitch-Akihiro Gono is a fight between two names though I expect Fitch to easily control his way to a decision, and Stephan Bonnar-Jon Jones, while not a contender's bout, could wind up being fight of the night even with all these others mentioned, due to their styles meshing pretty well. It'll be fun.

kbrake
01-29-2009, 07:40 PM
I'm not overly thrilled with UFC after dropping money for UFC 96 tickets awhile back to end up with Rampage vs. Jardine. There are some other fights on the card I like but I have zero interest in watching Jardine.

As for 94 I agree the card has some good fights but Affliction was great Saturday night, GSP Penn is going to be insane though I really wish tomorrow was Saturday.

Javy Pornstache
01-30-2009, 01:37 AM
Oh yeah, I feel your pain, that card is atrocious. I think they'll be in for a rude awakening with the less than stellar gate they'll get in Columbus for that show, and probably low buys compared to what they've been pulling. Some Zuffa people were alarmed by the drop in attendance from the first Columbus show to the second; I'd say they haven't seen anything yet.

kbrake
01-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Still have 2 two tickets if you are interested haha.

Cyclone792
01-30-2009, 12:08 PM
I certainly hope that the winner of the Machida/Silva fight gets a title shot at LHW.

If Silva wins it, I've got a feeling the UFC will give him a title shot. If Machida wins it, I'm not so sure though. I've long thought that Machida is deserving of a title shot, and I could care less if he bores 90 percent of the fan base. The dude just goes out and meticulously picks guys apart, he fights within the rules, and he's extremely effective and dominant at what he does.

Javy Pornstache
01-30-2009, 04:56 PM
Still have 2 two tickets if you are interested haha.

I'm good, thanks. :D Haha. Really, if you have a couple to unload, I may know someone who's interested, I'd have to check with them.

Agreed with Cyclone on Lyoto, he's one of my favorite fighters. I have a fear that he is being "Lindland'ed", in that while at this time he may be one of the top two or three fighters, if not the best, in the world in his division, he's not aesthetically pleasing to watch to casual fans, and a threat to the champion, so he needs to stay far, far away, in their eyes. To me, I love watching Lyoto's footwork and watching him pick apart fighters standing. If he wins, especially since Rampage is taking another fight before getting a title shot, to me, he HAS to be the next contender. If Thiago wins, I'd imagine he'd get a shot, no questions asked.

Mario-Rijo
01-30-2009, 07:56 PM
I am just starting to lose touch with some of these fighters (don't know much about Machida), too many PPV events. It will end up just like boxing if they don't do more on TV. Nobody I know has the many to spend on a PPV event every other month. Heck I can't even get most people I know to play fantasy football for a one time 20 dollar (winner take all) entry fee.

Javy Pornstache
02-02-2009, 04:35 PM
Lyoto won by complete first round destruction over Thiago and STILL likely won't get the next title shot, per "The Baldfather" Dana White.

Caveat Emperor
02-02-2009, 04:42 PM
I am just starting to lose touch with some of these fighters (don't know much about Machida), too many PPV events. It will end up just like boxing if they don't do more on TV. Nobody I know has the many to spend on a PPV event every other month. Heck I can't even get most people I know to play fantasy football for a one time 20 dollar (winner take all) entry fee.

I agree about the number of PPV events -- I'd rather they did fewer PPVs and focused on putting cards together with multiple good fights and then did free TV specials with more undercard stuff.

As for the cost, I go to Buffalo Wild Wings to watch the events. A beer and some wings is $10-15 -- much better deal than ordering the fight myself.

Cyclone792
02-02-2009, 04:49 PM
Lyoto won by complete first round destruction over Thiago and STILL likely won't get the next title shot, per "The Baldfather" Dana White.

That's just absurd.

I'll just go ahead and put it out there that I think Machida is probably the best 205lb fighter in the world right now. The fact that he can't get a title shot is an absolute travesty.

Maybe Machida's next opponent will be the Liddell/Rua winner, and maybe, just maybe, when Machida runs over either Chuck or Shogun they'll give him a shot.

Then again probably not.

Cyclone792
02-02-2009, 04:51 PM
I am just starting to lose touch with some of these fighters (don't know much about Machida), too many PPV events. It will end up just like boxing if they don't do more on TV. Nobody I know has the many to spend on a PPV event every other month. Heck I can't even get most people I know to play fantasy football for a one time 20 dollar (winner take all) entry fee.

We get a group of people of about 4-8 or so and head to a local restaurant carrying the game. That way we just consider it all a night out, and if I spend $15-25 for food/beer at the restaurant while watching the fight, it's just an overall night of entertainment.

Every once and a while we also order it at home, but we do the same thing with getting a group together and splitting the cost. I think the most I've ever had to pay to order a UFC event has been about $12 since we usually have at least four or five people watching the PPV.

Javy Pornstache
02-02-2009, 05:05 PM
Re: the amount of PPVs, definitely have agreed for a long time. To be honest, I didn't think they'd last this long with the multitude of PPVs they run because they frankly don't have enough stars that draw on PPV alone. They really only have a few true, true, top draws. Someone like Anderson Silva, who is one of the best fighters in the world, and certainly one of the most exciting, for all his credentials, he's not really been a big draw at the box office. Hence why his fight with Thales Leites at UFC 97 isn't the headliner, but rather a much less important fight (as far as contenders go, but with bigger names) in Chuck Liddell-Shogun Rua. Where UFC shines is hyping up bouts and making people care - the hype for St. Pierre-Penn was nuts.

Boxing has taken the hint of the struggling economy and way too many PPVs in the market as evidenced by last week - a fight that almost assuredly was thought to be a PPV when it was conceptualized - Margarito-Mosley, was shown instead on HBO. As are many more on their schedule, there are a ton of great fights, and almost all will be on TV. Pacquiao-Hatton is the only upcoming fight that will be PPV-worthy. And the Margarito-Cotto rematch - if Margarito isn't suspended in the meantime.

Javy Pornstache
02-02-2009, 05:06 PM
That's just absurd.

I'll just go ahead and put it out there that I think Machida is probably the best 205lb fighter in the world right now. The fact that he can't get a title shot is an absolute travesty.

Maybe Machida's next opponent will be the Liddell/Rua winner, and maybe, just maybe, when Machida runs over either Chuck or Shogun they'll give him a shot.

Then again probably not.

You are correct, and, in my opinion, it's not recent. Lyoto has been the best light heavyweight in the world for the better part of the past year. He'll have to actually murder Dana's boy Chuck to maybe garner respect to get a title shot.