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jamess697
07-07-2007, 08:40 AM
I was wondering if the Futures Game was televised? I think that it would be awesome to see both Bruce and Votto in this situation.

Chi-Town Red
07-07-2007, 08:49 AM
The XM All-Star Futures Game will feature the top Minor League prospects competing against each other as part of Taco Bell® All-Star Sunday at AT&T Park in San Francisco on Sunday, July 8th at 1:00 p.m. (PDT). XM will provide satellite radio play-by-play coverage of the XM All-Star Futures Game starting at 12:30 p.m. (PDT) (3:30 p.m. EDT) on XM 176 in addition to its other comprehensive live coverage from San Francisco. The game will be televised live on ESPN2. Taco Bell® All-Star Sunday is the first of three days of All-Star events at AT&T Park in San Francisco, culminating with the 78th All-Star Game on Tuesday, July 10th.

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 01:28 PM
Votto and Bruce on opposing teams....I'm going to have to check this bad boy out!

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 02:33 PM
Votto and Bruce on opposing teams....I'm going to have to check this bad boy out!me too
:thumbup:

Degenerate39
07-08-2007, 03:10 PM
What about Johnny C. is he in the game?

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 03:13 PM
What about Johnny C. is he in the game?

Nope. No more than two players from each organization are allowed to play in the game. Joey Votto and Jay Bruce are the Reds two representatives.

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:08 PM
Votto hitting cleanup for the World team

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:17 PM
Votto K's

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:18 PM
Nice catch by Bruce

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:20 PM
Bruce batting 7th for the USA team

guttle11
07-08-2007, 05:21 PM
Bruce batting 7th for the USA team

Is Narron managing the US team? :evil:

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 05:23 PM
Is Narron managing the US team? :evil:

I immediately wondered who/what filled out the line up card that had Jay Bruce, you know that guy leading the minor leagues in XBH, batting 7th.

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:24 PM
lotta talent for USA

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:26 PM
Longoria nice rip

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:28 PM
Longoria nice rip

Remove the N from his first name and he's Eva Longoria, just not hot, or female

:D

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 05:30 PM
Remove the N from his first name and he's Eva Longoria, just not hot, or female

:D

Yeah, but I bet she cant hit a baseball like he can. And that is far more important to me.

guttle11
07-08-2007, 05:35 PM
Yeah, but I bet she cant hit a baseball like he can. And that is far more important to me.

Yeah, but I'm 90% sure she looks better in a bikini. And that's far more important to me.

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:38 PM
Remove the N from his first name and he's Eva Longoria, just not hot, or female

:D wonder if he is a Tony Parker fan?:thumbup:

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:39 PM
Bruce coming up

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 05:43 PM
why was the Braves Dweeb batting before Bruce?

Degenerate39
07-08-2007, 05:43 PM
Bruce triples!

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:43 PM
Bruce WHAT A SHOT!!!! TRIPLE

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 05:44 PM
Whatta shot by Roy Hobbs!

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 05:44 PM
Seriously, Jay Bruce is unreal.

Degenerate39
07-08-2007, 05:44 PM
Whatta shot by Roy Hobbs!

Hamilton isn't playing in this game

keeganbrick
07-08-2007, 05:45 PM
Sounded like an explosion coming off Bruce's bat.

TOBTTReds
07-08-2007, 05:45 PM
That was about a 445 foot triple. SMASHED.

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 05:46 PM
Bruce just hits wherever he goes. He's making it hard for the Reds not to take a long look at him in Spring Traing next year

DeadRedinCT
07-08-2007, 05:46 PM
He doesn't walk enough.

[/sarcasm]

11larkin11
07-08-2007, 05:46 PM
That was a bout a foot low or five feet left of a homerun. Damn AT&T Park

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:46 PM
I missed it :(

CTA513
07-08-2007, 05:46 PM
That triple by Bruce is probably a homerun in most major league parks.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 05:47 PM
That ball was crushed. Anywhere else in the park and that ball is out by a mile.

HBP
07-08-2007, 05:47 PM
Jay got robbed by the brick, what a shot.

OK I've watched many games of baseball in my life but I've never seen a bird just sit there between the mound and plate for every pitch.

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 05:47 PM
That triple by Bruce is probably a homerun in most major league parks.

No, it is a home run in every park but that one. It hit 13 feet up the 421 foot wall.

He got it!
07-08-2007, 05:48 PM
Wow! That ball was scalded. I love the hustle to stretch it into a triple. Announcers compared him to Larry Walker.

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:49 PM
believe the hype

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:50 PM
Wow! That ball was scalded. I love the hustle to stretch it into a triple. Announcers compared him to Larry Walker.
Im thinking more Todd Helton:)

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 05:50 PM
Wow! That ball was scalded. I love the hustle to stretch it into a triple. Announcers compared him to Larry Walker.

He has been compared to Walker since he was drafted.

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 05:51 PM
think Votto won't try to jerk one next time up to stay with Jay?

keeganbrick
07-08-2007, 05:51 PM
Jay got robbed by the brick, what a shot.

OK I've watched many games of baseball in my life but I've never seen a bird just sit there between the mound and plate for every pitch.

:laugh:

ochoa30
07-08-2007, 05:52 PM
Jay got robbed by the brick, what a shot.

OK I've watched many games of baseball in my life but I've never seen a bird just sit there between the mound and plate for every pitch.

Best seat in the house unless you get killed.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 05:53 PM
Jay Bruce is going to be a perenial 1.000 OPS guy who belts 40-50 homers a year.

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:55 PM
Nice throw...was that Bruce? Wow!

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 05:55 PM
Bruce has a cannon of an arm.

Aronchis
07-08-2007, 05:55 PM
I heard that about Adam Dunn as well. Breath OBM, breath;)

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 05:56 PM
bad call - runner was in

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 05:56 PM
can u say 5 tool?

Degenerate39
07-08-2007, 05:56 PM
My God who has the better arm Hamilton or Bruce

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Boooo Pirate guy...booo ;)

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 05:57 PM
hard shot by Joey but caught by 1B

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 05:58 PM
Votto smokes one down the line but the 1B makes the grab to rob Joey of extra-bases.

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 06:00 PM
it's all in the syringe Joba

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 06:02 PM
Justin Upton smokes a HR to left.

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 06:04 PM
Justin Upton smokes a HR to left.wow !

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 06:08 PM
why is this guy batting in front of Bruce?

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 06:09 PM
why is this guy batting in front of Bruce?

Bruce should bat in every hole

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 06:10 PM
Greatest commercial ever.

HBP
07-08-2007, 06:14 PM
I doubt Bruce or Upton would have looked out of place playing in the Reds - Dbacks game today.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 06:26 PM
Bruce grounded out in his second atbat.

Superdude
07-08-2007, 06:31 PM
My God who has the better arm Hamilton or Bruce

Didn't Hamilton touch like 98MPH in high school? He probably had more of a pitcher's body back then, but I would guess Hamilton.

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 06:50 PM
Votto homers!

:jump:

mth123
07-08-2007, 06:50 PM
I'll one up ya Jay - Joey Votto

danforsman
07-08-2007, 06:51 PM
Oppo HR for Votto

Mario-Rijo
07-08-2007, 06:51 PM
Votto off of Bucholtz!!! Nice! :beerme::notworthy

Bucholtz only 4 HR's given up this yr!

Grande Donkey
07-08-2007, 06:51 PM
Votto hit a HR to oppostite field.

mbgrayson
07-08-2007, 06:51 PM
Votto goes the other way and nails a homer off Clay Buchholz.

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 06:52 PM
Time to make that young man a Red

Joseph
07-08-2007, 06:52 PM
Anyone ready to deal Hat and let Votto platoon with Conine a while? :)

CrackerJack
07-08-2007, 06:53 PM
Nice showing today boys.

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 06:54 PM
I play him every day. Let Mr. Youngbody pinch hit

mth123
07-08-2007, 06:54 PM
Anyone ready to deal Hat and let Votto platoon with Conine a while? :)

I'm for it. Why not deal Conine and let Keppinger play as well?

mbgrayson
07-08-2007, 06:54 PM
Anyone ready to deal Hat and let Votto platoon with Conine a while? :)

No. When he gets called up, the job should be all his. He needs to learn to hit lefties too.

neelm
07-08-2007, 06:57 PM
Way to go Joey!!

blumj
07-08-2007, 06:57 PM
Votto off of Bucholtz!!! Nice! :beerme::notworthy

Bucholtz only 4 HR's given up this yr!
Next time the Reds play the Red Sox in interleague, Buchholz will NOT be throwing him any FBs!

mbgrayson
07-08-2007, 06:58 PM
Votto splits:

vs. lefties- .260/.381/.364 for an OPS of .745 (2 HRs)
vs. righties- .333/.423/.522 for an OPS of .945 (9 HRs)

corkedbat
07-08-2007, 07:00 PM
Who are the two Futures reps for the Reds next year? Cueto? Will Bruce still be @ AAA?

Does somebody like Francisco catch fire? Do we pick up a top prospect?

KronoRed
07-08-2007, 07:00 PM
Bring that Canadian up

CrackerJack
07-08-2007, 07:05 PM
Bruce K's vs lefty on breaking ball (swings and misses)

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 07:05 PM
Bruce K's...

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 07:06 PM
still a good showing for Jay

Matt700wlw
07-08-2007, 07:10 PM
I think they should bump Bruce up to AAA before too long....and give him a shot in Spring Training if he has success in AAA

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 07:46 PM
Who are the two Futures reps for the Reds next year? Cueto? Will Bruce still be @ AAA?

Does somebody like Francisco catch fire? Do we pick up a top prospect?

I was thinking about this a little while ago too...Jay Bruce will be there if he's still in the minors at this time next year. Johnny Cueto will also most likely be there, if he, like Bruce, is still in the minors. Juan Francisco is also a candidate along with Frazier or Mesoraco.

Benihana
07-08-2007, 07:56 PM
Cueto has gotta be a top 10 pitching prospect in the game at this point. Barring injury, I would pencil him in the game for next year if he's not yet in the majors.

Jay Bruce will be the other rep unless he too is in the big leagues. Otherwise, I would look for whoever has the best start to next year- Francisco, Frazier, Wood or Watson.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 08:01 PM
Jay Bruce and Joey Votto combined to go 2-for-7 today with a homerun and a triple. Votto hit his homerun to the opposite field (leftcenter) while Bruce hit his triple off the very top of the brick wall in rightcenter. Votto was also robbed of a double on a nice play by the USA firstbaseman.

As a Reds fan, I can't wait to see these two guys in Reds uniforms. Here's my opinion on both guys.

Jay Bruce - Five tool talent who has produced at all levels thus far. IMO Jay Bruce is the best prospect in all of baseball. Bruce hits the ball with authority to all fields and continues to improve in every facet of the game. His plate discipline is starting to improve and he's hitting lefties much better this season. Jay is on the fast track to the majors - and if he stays healthy - I expect him to be patrolling RF for the Reds sometime in 2008. Projection: 1.000 OPS+ hitter each year with 40-50 homers and 40+ doubles.

Joey Votto - Very polished hitter who is ready to play in the major leagues right now. Like Jay Bruce, Votto is willing to hit the ball to all fields, and he does it well. While Votto's power ranks a notch below that of Bruce's, he still possesses great power and should hit 25-30 homers and 40+ doubles a year while drawing 100 walks. Projection: Consistent .300 hitter who pounds 40+ doubles and 25 homers a year all across the field. A very patient hitter, Votto 's names will be among the leaders in walks each year.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 08:18 PM
Jay Bruce and Joey Votto combined to go 2-for-7 today with a homerun and a triple. Votto hit his homerun to the opposite field (leftcenter) while Bruce hit his triple off the very top of the brick wall in rightcenter. Votto was also robbed of a double on a nice play by the USA firstbaseman.

As a Reds fan, I can't wait to see these two guys in Reds uniforms. Here's my opinion on both guys.

Jay Bruce - Five tool talent who has produced at all levels thus far. IMO Jay Bruce is the best prospect in all of baseball. Bruce hits the ball with authority to all fields and continues to improve in every facet of the game. His plate discipline is starting to improve and he's hitting lefties much better this season. Jay is on the fast track to the majors - and if he stays healthy - I expect him to be patrolling RF for the Reds sometime in 2008. Projection: 1.000 OPS+ hitter each year with 40-50 homers and 40+ doubles.

Joey Votto - Very polished hitter who is ready to play in the major leagues right now. Like Jay Bruce, Votto is willing to hit the ball to all fields, and he does it well. While Votto's power ranks a notch below that of Bruce's, he still possesses great power and should hit 25-30 homers and 40+ doubles a year while drawing 100 walks. Projection: Consistent .300 hitter who pounds 40+ doubles and 25 homers a year all across the field. A very patient hitter, Votto 's names will be among the leaders in walks each year.

I'm thinking your prediction on Bruce might be a little aggressive. That projection would put him in the company of Pujols and Vlad pretty fast. And some people wonder why expectations for players like Dunn are so high.

Chi-Town Red
07-08-2007, 08:35 PM
the ceiling is unlimited for both

Eric_Davis
07-08-2007, 08:39 PM
Jay Bruce is going to be a perenial 1.000 OPS guy who belts 40-50 homers a year.

Probably not.

Eric_Davis
07-08-2007, 08:41 PM
Anyone ready to deal Hat and let Votto platoon with Conine a while? :)

As soon as they can get it done. Nice that Hatteberg is really hot right now.

Screwball
07-08-2007, 08:42 PM
I'm thinking your prediction on Bruce might be a little aggressive. That projection would put him in the company of Pujols and Vlad pretty fast. And some people wonder why expectations for players like Dunn are so high.

Well Bruce is projected to be the next Larry Walker and he had several years putting up those types of numbers. 5 times in a 6 year span he OPSed over 1.000 and had 35+ doubles 4 times in that same span.

Of course, I just hope people don't expect these numbers in Jay Bruce's rookie season.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 08:52 PM
Well Bruce is projected to be the next Larry Walker and he had several years putting up those types of numbers. 5 times in a 6 year span he OPSed over 1.000 and had 35+ doubles 4 times in that same span.

Of course, I just hope people don't expect these numbers in Jay Bruce's rookie season.

Bruce won't be playing in Coors during its heyday. Would you be excited if someone compared him to Dante Bichette, who had a few memorable years in Coors?

Eric_Davis
07-08-2007, 08:52 PM
I think they should bump Bruce up to AAA before too long....and give him a shot in Spring Training if he has success in AAA

I'd let him stay at AA through the end of the year. He just got promoted a couple of weeks ago. He has a lot he can learn at AA still.

Let him start AAA next year, and he'll earn himself a call-up during mid-season. If it's in June next year, he'll be all of 21 years, 2 months old when it happens.


.........unless he spends the next 30 days with an OPS of 1.200 or higher, then bring him up to AAA.

Screwball
07-08-2007, 09:04 PM
Bruce won't be playing in Coors during its heyday. Would you be excited if someone compared him to Dante Bichette, who had a few memorable years in Coors?

Did you forget where the Reds play their home games? Last I checked GABP is pretty comparable to Coors as far as being a hitters' park. And if someone told me Bruce projects to OPS .850+ year in and year out (he actually projects to do better) with 120+ RBIs, why wouldn't I be excited? And for the record, LW had some outstanding years in Montreal and St. Louis as well (OPS+ of 127, 142, 151, 120, 146, 129). It wasn't just in Coors.

I understand you want to temper your enthusiasm for a prospect, but Jay Bruce has the potential to be an elite player for years to come. OBM's projection isn't unrealistic at all.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 09:04 PM
Probably not.

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 09:08 PM
Did you forget where the Reds play their games? Last I checked GABP is pretty comparable to Coors as far as being a hitters' park. And if someone told me Bruce projects to OPS .850+ year in and year out (he actually projects to do better) with 120+ RBIs, why wouldn't I be excited?

I understand you want to temper your enthusiasm for a prospect, but Jay Bruce has the potential to be an elite player for years to come. OBM's projection isn't unrealistic at all.

Are you serious? Look at Larry Walker's 1999 splits:

Home: 1.410 OPS - Away: .894 OPS

Has anyone ever had splits like that in GABP? Or even splits which slightly resembled that?

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 09:13 PM
Are you serious? Look at Larry Walker's 1999 splits:

Home: 1.410 OPS - Away: .894 OPS

Has anyone ever had splits like that in GABP? Or even splits which slightly resembled that?

What were his splits every other year in Colorado?

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 09:17 PM
What were his splits every other year in Colorado?

Year - Home/Away

1995: 1.131/.845
1996: 1.248/.523
1997: 1.169/1.176
1998: 1.240/.891
1999: 1.410/.894
2000: 1.061/.770

I'll stop here, since I think the point has been made. 1996 was extra special.

Eric_Davis
07-08-2007, 09:17 PM
Thanks for the well thought out reply.

OK, maybe because his first two years in the minors he didn't even have an OPS over .900.

.815, .831, .871 his first 3 stops...for a total of .857. That's a very, very, very long way from 1.000+ every year in the Majors.

His first stop this year was tremendouse at .965, but again, that's a long way from 1.000+ every year in the Majors.

A perennial .900+ every year would be fantastic and more reasonable with one or two years topping 1.000.

Screwball
07-08-2007, 09:24 PM
Are you serious? Look at Larry Walker's 1999 splits:

Home: 1.410 OPS - Away: .894 OPS

Has anyone ever had splits like that in GABP? Or even splits which slightly resembled that?

Nice sample size. And I like how you carefully selected a year that would help your argument (which I'm not even sure why you're making, seeing as how Jay Bruce will be playing half his games in a hitters park as well). In 1997, Larry Walker's MVP year, his OPS at home: 1.169; on the road: 1.176. It was actually higher on the road. For his career, LW has done better at home than on the road (OPS 1.068 vs. .865), but an .850+ OPS on the road is still nothing to sneeze at.

Also, for his career Adam Dunn's OPS at home is .946. On the road it's nearly 100 points lower: .844. Scott Hatteberg's OPS at home last year: .935; on the road: .714.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 09:28 PM
OK, maybe because his first two years in the minors he didn't even have an OPS over .900.

Miguel Cabrera never OPS'd above .760 until his 4th year in the minors. Pujols OPS'd .921 in his only minor league season, and since then has five seasons in the majors with a 1.000+ OPS. Brian Giles posted an OPS above .900 only once in the minors (when he was 25) but has three 1.000+ OPS season plus many other .900+ OPS seasons in the majors. Chipper Jones has three 1.000+ OPS seasons in the majors compared to zero in the minors. This happens all the time. Players get better once they reach the majors and fully develop their body, in addition to the better coaching in the majors.

dougdirt
07-08-2007, 09:30 PM
OK, maybe because his first two years in the minors he didn't even have an OPS over .900.

.815, .831, .871 his first 3 stops...for a total of .857. That's a very, very, very long way from 1.000+ every year in the Majors.

His first stop this year was tremendouse at .965, but again, that's a long way from 1.000+ every year in the Majors.

A perennial .900+ every year would be fantastic and more reasonable with one or two years topping 1.000.

Well his first two OPS's that you listed came under the 'take the first pitch rule'. So toss those out the window. The next one he was well over .900 before he was injured for hte last month of the season and hit under .200 in August.

Lets also note that Jay had the highest OPS of any player 20 or younger in the FSL since 2001 (and thats only back as far as I went, but it might go back further than that). Only one player had even had an OPS of .900 in the league such a young age and Jay posted one over .950. Now lets also add that he was one of the 10 youngest players in High A and we start to see just how ridiculous that is. Now that he is in AA, he has jsut continued to hit, hit and hit some more. Will Jay OPS over 1.000 in the majors? I have no idea, but I would lay down a lot of money if I could that he will OPS .900 consistantly.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 09:39 PM
Miguel Cabrera never OPS'd above .760 until his 4th year in the minors. Pujols OPS'd .921 in his only minor league season, and since then has five seasons in the majors with a 1.000+ OPS. Brian Giles posted an OPS above .900 only once in the minors (when he was 25) but has three 1.000+ OPS season plus many other .900+ OPS seasons in the majors. Chipper Jones has three 1.000+ OPS seasons in the majors compared to zero in the minors. This happens all the time. Players get better once they reach the majors and fully develop their body, in addition to the better coaching in the majors.

I would like to see the muscle mass for Giles and Pujols relative to their OPS.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 09:40 PM
Nice sample size. And I like how you carefully selected a year that would help your argument (which I'm not even sure why you're making, seeing as how Jay Bruce will be playing half his games in a hitters park as well). In 1997, Larry Walker's MVP year, his OPS at home: 1.169; on the road: 1.176. It was actually higher on the road. For his career, LW has done better at home than on the road (OPS 1.068 vs. .865), but an .850+ OPS on the road is still nothing to sneeze at.

Also, for his career Adam Dunn's OPS at home is .946. On the road it's nearly 100 points lower: .844. Scott Hatteberg's OPS at home last year: .935; on the road: .714.

OK...here's a better sample size


Year - Home/Away

1995: 1.131/.845
1996: 1.248/.523
1997: 1.169/1.176
1998: 1.240/.891
1999: 1.410/.894
2000: 1.061/.770

I'll stop here, since I think the point has been made. 1996 was extra special.

Looks like 1997 was the outlier.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 09:44 PM
By the way, Larry Walker had a career BABIP of .385 at Coors Field. Just thought that was an interesting stat.

Screwball
07-08-2007, 09:57 PM
OK...here's a better sample size



Looks like 1997 was the outlier.

OK? I'm still not seeing your point here. Yes LW (like most players) did better at home than he did on the road. But, like I said 3 times now, Jay Bruce will be playing his home games at GABP, a very hitter friendly ballpark like Coors. If Bruce is projected to be the next Larry Walker, then why shouldn't we expect him to OPS (and hit HRs, doubles, etc.) at the same clip at home - and therefore overall - as LW did?

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 10:25 PM
OK? I'm still not seeing your point here. Yes LW (like most players) did better at home than he did on the road. But, like I said 3 times now, Jay Bruce will be playing his home games at GABP, a very hitter friendly ballpark like Coors. If Bruce is projected to be the next Larry Walker, then why shouldn't we expect him to OPS (and hit HRs, doubles, etc.) at the same clip at home - and therefore overall - as LW did?

Because saying Coors and GABP are both hitters parks is like saying Johan Santana and Aaron Harang are both good pitchers.

It is a true statement, but there are different levels of hitters parks and Coors is one of the biggest hitters park of all time. And pre-humidor Coors was ridiculous.

Screwball
07-08-2007, 11:21 PM
Because saying Coors and GABP are both hitters parks is like saying Johan Santana and Aaron Harang are both good pitchers.

It is a true statement, but there are different levels of hitters parks and Coors is one of the biggest hitters park of all time. And pre-humidor Coors was ridiculous.

To suggest Coors is a much better hitters' park than GABP is just flat out wrong. GABP has a higher Park Factor (1.197, 2nd in MLB) than Coors Field (1.136, 4th in MLB) does. GABP actually gives up more home runs than Coors (1.559 to 1.160). If anything, it's actually more advantageous for a hitter to play in GABP than anywhere else (save Fenway Park).

GABP currently is very much like pre-humidor Coors. The HR rate is astounding.

flyer85
07-08-2007, 11:26 PM
Jay Bruce is going to be a perenial 1.000 OPS guy who belts 40-50 homers a year.

:rolleyes:

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 11:29 PM
To suggest Coors is a better hitters' park than GABP is just flat out wrong. GABP has a higher Park Factor (1.197, 2nd in MLB) than Coors Field (1.136, 4th in MLB) does. GABP actually gives up more home runs than Coors (1.559 to 1.160). If anything, it's actually more advantageous for a hitter to play in GABP than anywhere else (save Fenway Park).

PRE-HUMIDOR!!!!

Career BABIPs in Coors

Walker: .385
Bichette: .352
Galarraga: .362
Helton: .363

If you can, measure what the park factor was before the humidor. It's a joke.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2007, 11:34 PM
:rolleyes:

Again, another well thought out response. Very nice.

I forgot that it was against the rules to say anything positive about the Reds' prospects. My fault.

edabbs44
07-08-2007, 11:35 PM
Again, another well thought our response. Very nice.

I forgot that it was against the rules to say anything positive about the Reds' prospects. My fault.

It's just the hyperbole was off the charts.

reds44
07-08-2007, 11:53 PM
Sorry OBM, I can't see either Votto or Bruce living up to your predictions. I just can't see Votto hitting .300 or Bruce ever OPSing over 1.000, especially Votto. There is also a difference between saying something positive, and predicting a guy will hit between 40-50 who you've seen play probably less then 10 times. Jay is one of the best hitting prospect in the game, but who knows how his numbers will translate in the bigs.

Also, I don't see where you get that edabbs was trying to imply you can't so something positive about Reds prospects. His original post said he thinks you were being "alittle agressive" with your predictions and that you were putting him in Pujols/Vlad territory. He disagreed with it, as do I.

Aronchis
07-09-2007, 12:14 AM
Sorry OBM, I can't see either Votto or Bruce living up to your predictions. I just can't see Votto hitting .300 or Bruce ever OPSing over 1.000, especially Votto. There is also a difference between saying something positive, and predicting a guy will hit between 40-50 who you've seen play probably less then 10 times. Jay is one of the best hitting prospect in the game, but who knows how his numbers will translate in the bigs.

Also, I don't see where you get that edabbs was trying to imply you can't so something positive about Reds prospects. His original post said he thinks you were being "alittle agressive" with your predictions and that you were putting him in Pujols/Vlad territory. He disagreed with it, as do I.

Maybe, maybe not. We don't know, nor ever know. Nobody would have thought Pujols would go ape on MLB after his very good year in low A ball.

Dunn at this point hasn't been the 1.000OPS monster that most hoped. But that doesn't mean he hasn't been a good home grown product. I think we let history tell that story, not meaningless comparisons.

reds44
07-09-2007, 12:19 AM
Maybe, maybe not. We don't know, nor ever know. Nobody would have thought Pujols would go ape on MLB after his very good year in low A ball.

Dunn at this point hasn't been the 1.000OPS monster that most hoped. But that doesn't mean he hasn't been a good home grown product. I think we let history tell that story, not meaningless comparisons.
I didn't say Dunn hasn't been a good home grown product, nor did I say if Votto doesn't hit .300 and Bruce doesn't OPS 1.000 they won't be good home grown products. If Votto hits .275 in the majors he'll put up around a .375 0BP and hit for good power numbers. I'd take that in a second, and be willing to pencil him at 1st base for however long he wants to be there. Id be thrilled with that. From what I have seen from him, I can't see him hitting .300 though.

If Bruce can be Adam Dunn with less strikeouts and better numbers with RISP, he'd be a monster. He doesn't have the walk numbers of Dunn, but he is a better fielder and strikes out less.

If Bruce were to post 1.000 OPS with 40-50 he'd be HOF good. It's not fair to put those kind of predictions on him.

OnBaseMachine
07-09-2007, 06:14 PM
Also, I don't see where you get that edabbs was trying to imply you can't so something positive about Reds prospects. His original post said he thinks you were being "alittle agressive" with your predictions and that you were putting him in Pujols/Vlad territory. He disagreed with it, as do I.

I'm not referring to that. Everytime Doug or I say something positive about the Reds, someone butts in and tells us to not get too excited because so and so is too old, or doesn't walk enough, or someone from another organization is much better. It gets a little old.

edabbs44
07-09-2007, 06:25 PM
I'm not referring to that. Everytime Doug or I say something positive about the Reds, someone butts in and tells us to not get too excited because so and so is too old, or doesn't walk enough, or someone from another organization is much better. It gets a little old.

Sean Watson was being hailed as the second coming.

I (among others) tempered my enthusiasm due to the fact that he was a college guy in low A.

He got the well deserved promotion and has been getting a little roughed up in High A.

He is no longer the second coming.

This is just an example, but it seems as if logic sometimes leaves the building when it comes to Cincy prospects. I'm sure that Bruce's K/BB rate would be brought up if he was a Cards prospect, for example.

Aronchis
07-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Sean Watson was being hailed as the second coming.

I (among others) tempered my enthusiasm due to the fact that he was a college guy in low A.

He got the well deserved promotion and has been getting a little roughed up in High A.

He is no longer the second coming.

This is just an example, but it seems as if logic sometimes leaves the building when it comes to Cincy prospects. I'm sure that Bruce's K/BB rate would be brought up if he was a Cards prospect, for example.

Then Watson throws a gem and is the second coming again. Pujols only walked 38 times in low A at 20(granted, "supposedly" lol). If you can't see Bruce's improvements lately, shame on you. The point is, he is doing stuff at a age that "suggests" superstar. Similiar with Upton. While Maybin after a good 2 month start, has falling by the wayside the last 5 weeks. Maybe Maybin has a better career than Bruce and Upton, his current numbers don't suggest it.

OnBaseMachine
07-09-2007, 06:33 PM
BTW, I just watched a Joey Votto interview with MLB.com. When they asked Joey about his workouts routines, he mentioned that he shows up early at the park each day and fishes out one of the groundscrew members (who just happens to be a lefty) to work on his hitting against lefties. That's awesome. I can't wait to see this kid destroying pitching in Cincy. Also, for those folks who thought Casey was the nicest guy in the world, he may have some competition in Joey Votto. He seems like a top notch person.

Aronchis
07-09-2007, 06:34 PM
BTW, I just watched a Joey Votto interview with MLB.com. When they asked Joey about his workouts routines, he mentioned that he shows up early at the park each day and fishes out one of the groundscrew members (who just happens to be a lefty) to work on his hitting against lefties. That's awesome. I can't wait to see this kid destroying pitching in Cincy. Also, for those folks who thought Casey was the nicest guy in the world, he may have some competition in Joey Votto. He seems like a top notch person.

Hey, nobody will ever be able to outhug Sean Casey, no matter how hard Joey tries;)

dougdirt
07-09-2007, 06:36 PM
Hey, nobody will ever be able to outhug Sean Casey, no matter how hard Joey tries;)

Not if we start a 'hug Joey Votto day' and have it once a week. :thumbup:

edabbs44
07-09-2007, 06:36 PM
Then Watson throws a gem and is the second coming again. Pujols only walked 38 times in low A at 20(granted, "supposedly" lol). If you can't see Bruce's improvements lately, shame on you. The point is, he is doing stuff at a age that "suggests" superstar. Similiar with Upton. While Maybin after a good 2 month start, has falling by the wayside the last 5 weeks. Maybe Maybin has a better career than Bruce and Upton, his current numbers don't suggest it.

I can see Bruce's progression and am very excited by it, but to say that he will be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy is suggesting that he is a sure shot HOF.

It's just a little early for that.

dougdirt
07-09-2007, 06:40 PM
I can see Bruce's progression and am very excited by it, but to say that he will be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy is suggesting that he is a sure shot HOF.

It's just a little early for that.

Well to you is it a little early to ever say that until a guy has done it 3 years running?

edabbs44
07-09-2007, 08:36 PM
Well to you is it a little early to ever say that until a guy has done it 3 years running?

No...but if Vlad has only done it 3 times in his career, it's a bit aggressive to say he'll be a perennial OPSer of 1.000.

Especially since everyone says that the reason people are so "down" on Dunn is because of unrealistic expectations being placed on him while he was still in the minors. You are witnessing another situation similar to that.

dougdirt
07-09-2007, 09:24 PM
No...but if Vlad has only done it 3 times in his career, it's a bit aggressive to say he'll be a perennial OPSer of 1.000.

Especially since everyone says that the reason people are so "down" on Dunn is because of unrealistic expectations being placed on him while he was still in the minors. You are witnessing another situation similar to that.

That is not why people are down on Dunn. People are down on Dunn becuase he is the most frustrating baseball player they have ever seen.