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View Full Version : 7-12-07 - Redlegs-Metropolitans at Queens



Heath
07-12-2007, 04:27 PM
per Trent -

Hatteberg 1b
Freel cf
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Arroyo p

Hamilton to DL

BRM
07-12-2007, 04:34 PM
What would be so wrong with batting Dunn 4th?

I know...it's the break up the lefties thing.

NJReds
07-12-2007, 04:46 PM
I'd stack the lefties vs. the Mets in the hope that it'd tempt Willie to put Schoenweis in the game.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 04:50 PM
per Trent -

Hatteberg 1b
Freel cf
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Arroyo p

Hamilton to DL

Who's up for Josh?

Nevermind...Moeller.

Joy.

BRM
07-12-2007, 04:51 PM
Who's up for Josh?

Chad Freaking Moeller

LincolnparkRed
07-12-2007, 04:52 PM
Moeller,

same old same old

membengal
07-12-2007, 04:53 PM
WK and his fetishes. Like the sun rising in the east and all that...

KronoRed
07-12-2007, 04:56 PM
Krivksy loves him some 3 catcher goodness :D

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 04:56 PM
There is no reason for Chad Moeller to get the call...none. He's barely part of the present let alone the future.

oneupper
07-12-2007, 04:57 PM
Lousy lineup. Mets will pitch around Griff and Dunn, like the Dbacks did in the last game.

Big Klu
07-12-2007, 05:35 PM
I would go with this lineup (using the same personnel):

Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Freel cf
Arroyo p

oneupper
07-12-2007, 05:44 PM
I would go with this lineup (using the same personnel):

Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Freel cf
Arroyo p

I'll take that over MacNarron's.

Tom Servo
07-12-2007, 06:35 PM
Moeller = :bang::bang::bang: :bang::bang:

PuffyPig
07-12-2007, 06:59 PM
I'd stack the lefties vs. the Mets in the hope that it'd tempt Willie to put Schoenweis in the game.

Yeah, I'm sure the Reds lefties would just love to hit against him (.598 OPS against, vs. 1.056 against RH batters).

Feliciano is .437 vs. LH hitters, .646 vs. RH hitters.

Stacking the lefties against the Mets could easily backfire. I'd rather that SS has to face Phillips in between the lefties.

KronoRed
07-12-2007, 07:02 PM
Moeller = :bang::bang::bang: :bang::bang:

Lets hope it's temporary

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:11 PM
El Duque

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:12 PM
This is the ONLY National League game of the day.

The schedule makers are not Reds fans

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:21 PM
sweet.

1-0 Mets...Reyes goes yard

Tom Servo
07-12-2007, 07:22 PM
Gary Cohen saying that it's the 9th time Reyes has lead off with a homerun. I recall one of them being against Joe Mays last year.



Oh jesus christ, Rueben Gotay!?!?

flyer85
07-12-2007, 07:22 PM
that didn't take long ... twice

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:22 PM
2-0 Mets.

Back to back....

:bang:


Thus it begins....

CTA513
07-12-2007, 07:22 PM
sweet.

1-0 Mets...Reyes goes yard

Arroyo is just helping out my fantasy baseball team.

KronoRed
07-12-2007, 07:22 PM
Reyes on his way to a cycle

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:24 PM
For a brief moment, I thought the Reds returned Jeff Austin to the squad...

cincy09
07-12-2007, 07:25 PM
Homers to the two Judy hitters then K's Beltran!

flyer85
07-12-2007, 07:26 PM
that was a dumb alignment

red-in-la
07-12-2007, 07:28 PM
Doug Pelfrey sighting?

I saw a jersey in the Mets dougout with Pelfrey written on it.

oneupper
07-12-2007, 07:28 PM
Mets killed their rally TWICE.

Got them where we want them now.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:41 PM
Hatteberg is the hottest hitter in the world

flyer85
07-12-2007, 07:44 PM
Freel keeps getting himself out swinging at balls

red-in-la
07-12-2007, 07:45 PM
I just still don't get Ryan Freel.

Bat him second?

He seems to either be 5-5 or 0-5.....and look bad doing it. Just me I guess.

flyer85
07-12-2007, 07:46 PM
I just still don't get Ryan Freel.

Bat him second?

He seems to either be 5-5 or 0-5.....and look bad doing it. Just me I guess.chasing pitches up and out of the strike zone isnt going to get it done.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:49 PM
El Duque steals a base....

Arroyo looks clueless tonight

red-in-la
07-12-2007, 07:53 PM
El Duque steals a base....

Arroyo looks clueless tonight

Reyes is clueless'er?

Kc61
07-12-2007, 07:53 PM
Watching the Reds the last couple of weeks, you really have to marvel at the play of Scott Hatteberg. He really knows how to hit, does it in the clutch. fields his position. Nice tag on that pick off.

I know he's as good as traded, but he's been a great pickup by Krivsky.

flyer85
07-12-2007, 07:53 PM
El Duque steals a base....

Arroyo looks clueless tonightactually that would be Gonzo, who was late covering the bag ... it was the reason Ross held on to the ball

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 07:54 PM
actually that would be Gonzo, who was late covering the bag ... it was the reason Ross held on to the ball

Everybody's clueless :D

Nice job getting out of a jam, though

Kc61
07-12-2007, 08:04 PM
Very poor hitting by the Reds there. Phillips, Dunn, and EE. Duque has been on the ropes with walks, base hits, Reds get lead off man on, Phillips can't make contact, Dunn keeps the bat on his shoulder, EE pops up.

Stadiums like Shea are challenging for the Reds because it's hard to get cheap home runs. Other than Hatteberg, I don't see a lot of base hits with men on base.

letsgojunior
07-12-2007, 08:24 PM
Good evening everyone.

KronoRed
07-12-2007, 08:26 PM
Freel keeps getting himself out swinging at balls

Freel is one of those players that takes a slump and make it 10 times worse

MrCinatit
07-12-2007, 08:35 PM
Diving for that ball just gave the Mets a run. Get in front of the ball and stop it - stop trying to make the highlight reel every night.

flyer85
07-12-2007, 08:35 PM
Ross once again does not block the plate

CTA513
07-12-2007, 08:35 PM
Freel helps the Mets take the lead.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 08:38 PM
Freel having a banner night.

Looked to me like Milledge never touched the plate, but I guess he did.

Reds outfield play doesn't exactly help the team's pitchers.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 08:38 PM
Freel's IQ has to be near the retardation line of 80.

Why he thinks he has to be Superman on every play kills me.

Where runners should be on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs, he lets a runner score from 1st base.

Can't wait until Hamilton gets back and Freel gets only spot starts now and then.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 08:40 PM
Watching the Reds the last couple of weeks, you really have to marvel at the play of Scott Hatteberg. He really knows how to hit, does it in the clutch. fields his position. Nice tag on that pick off.

I know he's as good as traded, but he's been a great pickup by Krivsky.

It's kind of a bummer that he's too good this year. I was hoping he'd be one of our bench players next year as Votto starts at 1st Base.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 08:41 PM
I just still don't get Ryan Freel.

Bat him second?

He seems to either be 5-5 or 0-5.....and look bad doing it. Just me I guess.

He's like Concepcion in the 70's after Morgan arrived. A .270 hitter with some speed. Bat him 7th just like Concepcion.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 08:42 PM
Dunn keeps striking out. 107 this year. I know, it doesn't matter.

red-in-la
07-12-2007, 08:44 PM
With "GOOD MR. RED" being a team that played smart with energy.......

BAD MR. RED is baaaccckkkkkk! :help:

I would almost think that Jerry Narron is hovering somewhere around this game....... :bang:

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 08:51 PM
Bailey got beat up tonight for the Bats...details in the minor league thread

wally post
07-12-2007, 08:52 PM
I think I've never said a bad word about Adam Dunn. But I've got to say, he look sterrible at the plate. Why doesn't he swing at the close balls when he has two strikes!!!! It's as if he is sleepwalking out there. What are our coaches doing for this team?

Marc D
07-12-2007, 08:55 PM
Hernandez just said if he K'd as much as Ross in 200 some AB's he'd consider jumping off the GW bridge.

He's killing me tonight.

flyer85
07-12-2007, 08:55 PM
letting Arroyo bat in the 7th inning while losing against a team with Wagner in the pen ... hmmm

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 08:57 PM
letting Arroyo bat in the 7th inning while losing against a team with Wagner in the pen ... hmmm

Narron-like...

By the way, Joe Smith is from Cincinnati if anybody gives a hoot.

Marc D
07-12-2007, 08:57 PM
letting Arroyo bat in the 7th inning while losing against a team with Wagner in the pen ... hmmm


I have no problem with it. Its likely not a 1 run game anymore as soon as the pen gets involved, the bench is weaker than circus lemonade and there were 2 outs.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 09:04 PM
Freel lets Reyes stretch a single to a double.

Reds don't appear ready to play tonight. The Mets are so much more athletic and aggressive it's like the Reds don't belong on the same field.

Maybe Reds will pick things up in the eighth and ninth.

Marc D
07-12-2007, 09:04 PM
Freel working hard to show everyone why he's not an everyday CFer.

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2007, 09:07 PM
Jay Bruce has homered tonight in his AAA debut FWIW.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 09:15 PM
I think Hatteberg is great, but he is platooning. Why leave him in against lefty Feliciano in the eighth inning? Against the lefty, isn't Conine the better hitter? Mets gain the advantage lefty-lefty, Reds agree to the disadvantage.

Conine is not going to hit for Griffey, nor for Dunn, so Reds basically are unable to use good righty hitter against Mets lefty relievers.

Ok if Hatte plays against all pitchers, but he is a platoon guy. If so, platoon him.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:16 PM
Quick Poll:

How many runs do the REDS give up in the 8th?

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 09:16 PM
Nice outing for Arroyo, for the most part...

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:16 PM
I have no problem with it. Its likely not a 1 run game anymore as soon as the pen gets involved, the bench is weaker than circus lemonade and there were 2 outs.


Yep.

Yep.

and

Yep.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:18 PM
Hernandez just said if he K'd as much as Ross in 200 some AB's he'd consider jumping off the GW bridge.

He's killing me tonight.

He's been great. I like the "loser" and "last place" comment when referring to Gonzo or Phillips not going out to the pitchers mound so they know what pitch is coming, too. Think like a team, act like a team.

WVRedsFan
07-12-2007, 09:19 PM
What do these managers see in Mike Stanton? I just want to know.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:21 PM
Stanton comes in and walks the first 2 batters he faces.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Stanton quickly returning to form....a dinger here would be the final step of that process...

Marc D
07-12-2007, 09:22 PM
here we go

flyer85
07-12-2007, 09:22 PM
not PHing for Arroyo and then using him for only one more inning with a low pitch count makes little sense.

wally post
07-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Yes, the reds look like a last place team tonight. WV - I don't think any of the other teams see anything in Stanton. I have no idea on this earth why our front office decided to sign him. For one thing, he looks like a walking heart attack. our current manager is in better shape than him. Stanton is about to blow the game open for the Mets now.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Double steal for the Mets.

CTA513
07-12-2007, 09:24 PM
Stanton is just doing his part to try and get that #1 pick.

:thumbup:

Cyclone792
07-12-2007, 09:24 PM
Those who can read lips probably got a nice kick out of what Ross said when he saw the safe call at third base.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:25 PM
Pitching change. Stanton tonight 17 pitches (6 strikes, 11 balls)

Burton in to pitch.

Marc D
07-12-2007, 09:26 PM
Those who can read lips probably got a nice kick out of what Ross said when he saw the safe call at third base.

A decent tag and Beltran was out. Again, this team fails at that critical moment.

vaticanplum
07-12-2007, 09:26 PM
I'm going to make the kind of statement that I usually abhor due to the sheer inability to back it up: this team has zero mental toughness. It's immature, mentally, which is not to say that the players don't try or that they don't know "how to play the game"; just that they're lacking a certain concentration and coherence and I have no idea how they can fix that.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 09:26 PM
Those who can read lips probably got a nice kick out of what Ross said when he saw the safe call at third base.

Terrible call at third. EE had the glove on him. With Freel's play in center, Dunn's strikeouts, and the umps' calls, this is one frustrating baseball game.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:27 PM
not PHing for Arroyo and then using him for only one more inning with a low pitch count makes little sense.
Absolutely. No reason not to let Arroyo pitch the 8th. He's been pitching great all night showing no signs at all of being tired.

Marc D
07-12-2007, 09:28 PM
I'm going to make the kind of statement that I usually abhor due to the sheer inability to back it up: this team has zero mental toughness. It's immature, mentally, which is not to say that the players don't try or that they don't know "how to play the game"; just that they're lacking a certain concentration and coherence and I have no idea how they can fix that.


wow, was I channeling you or you channeling me?

Agree 100% on the mental weakness of this team, its been that way far too long and its the one area I feel a good manager can have a huge impact on.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Yes, the reds look like a last place team tonight. WV - I don't think any of the other teams see anything in Stanton. I have no idea on this earth why our front office decided to sign him. For one thing, he looks like a walking heart attack. our current manager is in better shape than him. Stanton is about to blow the game open for the Mets now.

There are a lot of things that don't make sense. Why you'd keep Juan Castro and sell for cash a player like Brendan Harris sounds like a John Allen move to me.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:29 PM
Intentional walk to Green. Bases loaded with 2 outs.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:29 PM
Those who can read lips probably got a nice kick out of what Ross said when he saw the safe call at third base.

I agreed until I saw the Edwin tag his own foot instead of the Met's players foot.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:31 PM
Good job by Burton to get out of that mess.

flyer85
07-12-2007, 09:32 PM
nice job by Burton

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:32 PM
Phillips, Dunn, Encarnacion due up in the 9th.

VR
07-12-2007, 09:33 PM
I'm going to make the kind of statement that I usually abhor due to the sheer inability to back it up: this team has zero mental toughness. It's immature, mentally, which is not to say that the players don't try or that they don't know "how to play the game"; just that they're lacking a certain concentration and coherence and I have no idea how they can fix that.


It's only been an issue for about 6 years

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 09:33 PM
Time for Wagner.....not exactly an easy feat

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:34 PM
Phillips singles to left to lead off.

Cyclone792
07-12-2007, 09:34 PM
Wagner's not all that quick to the plate so Phillips just needs to flat out swipe second base if he can get a good jump ... unless Dunn walks since he's already at a 2-0 count.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:36 PM
I'm going to make the kind of statement that I usually abhor due to the sheer inability to back it up: this team has zero mental toughness. It's immature, mentally, which is not to say that the players don't try or that they don't know "how to play the game"; just that they're lacking a certain concentration and coherence and I have no idea how they can fix that.

Ross is the closest thing they have to a leader.

Griffey's not a leader. Never has been.

Dunn's not a leader. Never has been.

Gonzo's not a leader.

Freel's a disaster waiting to happen.

Hamilton's not a leader or he wouldn't do what he did.

Phillips isn't a leader.

Hopefully Votto is.

One of the problems of the Mariners when Junior was there, was that he made it tough for a leader to appear on that team. Reds' fans won't know what I'm talking about, but Mariner's fans can back this up. There's an aura he puts on the team that isn't conducive to winning....there's not a team mentality where one each player is willing to sacrifice for the other.

If you see this Jojo, or WOY. comment please.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:37 PM
Dunn grounds out to 2nd. Phillips moves to 2nd.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 09:37 PM
Dunn grounds out to 2nd. Phillips moves to 2nd.

Good AB for Dunn against very tough lefty.

VR
07-12-2007, 09:37 PM
Interesting note on the Mets stealing 4 times tonight against one of the NL's top guns. Almost seems like their advanced scouts saw something.

Phillips, meanwhile, stands still against a 20% catcher.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 09:40 PM
That was lovely...

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:40 PM
Bad baserunning. Phillips gets caught in a rundown. 2 outs.

red-in-la
07-12-2007, 09:41 PM
Good AB for Dunn against very tough lefty.

THAT at bat is why I am a Dunn not a supporter.....

Dunn rolled over on a pitch that he should be driving somewhere.....

Just bad.

CTA513
07-12-2007, 09:41 PM
Phillips takes a page out of Freels book and is easily out.

flyer85
07-12-2007, 09:41 PM
defies description ... suppose Gonzo will get a hit

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:41 PM
Edwin steals 2nd.

Conine is pinch hitting for Gonzalez.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 09:41 PM
Phillips takes a page out of Freels book and is easily out.

Do they teach these guys anything?

Marc D
07-12-2007, 09:42 PM
Dumb, dumb, dumb baseball team

Cyclone792
07-12-2007, 09:42 PM
That's just sad ... Encarnacion isn't even much of a basestealer, and he steals second base without much of a problem. You've got a pitcher who's slow to the plate and a catcher with a weak arm, and Encarnacion did what Phillips couldn't do.

Phillips never tried to take second when Dunn was up, he never tried to take third when Encarnacion was up, and then he gets caught in a rundown. Phillips should have been standing on third base when Encarnacion was up, but instead ... he wasn't.

vaticanplum
07-12-2007, 09:42 PM
Ross is the closest thing they have to a leader.

Griffey's not a leader. Never has been.

Dunn's not a leader. Never has been.

Gonzo's not a leader.

Freel's a disaster waiting to happen.

Hamilton's not a leader or he wouldn't do what he did.

Phillips isn't a leader.

Hopefully Votto is.

One of the problems of the Mariners when Junior was there, was that he made it tough for a leader to appear on that team. Reds' fans won't know what I'm talking about, but Mariner's fans can back this up. There's an aura he puts on the team that isn't conducive to winning....there's not a team mentality where one each player is willing to sacrifice for the other.

If you see this Jojo, or WOY. comment please.

Is it an issue of a leader? I don't put that kind of problem all on the shoulders of one player...on a manager maybe...some players lead by example. Griffey at his peak with the Mariners was as good an example as there is.

I don't know what it is. Just that I feel that this team has consigned itself to losing. It's been a losing team for going on eight years now, but one of the reasons last year's (losing) team was so fun was because it didn't seem to have that air about it. Lacking talent, yes, but lacking a desire to win...not quite. I can't explain it, I probably shouldn't try.

Matt700wlw
07-12-2007, 09:42 PM
Hopper on deck to PH for Ross, if they get that far...

VR
07-12-2007, 09:42 PM
see VP's comments

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Conine grounds out to 3rd. Reds lose 3-2.

The Baumer
07-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Have the Mets announcer been this snarky all day?

Marc D
07-12-2007, 09:44 PM
Back to the normal routine

VR
07-12-2007, 09:44 PM
Do they teach these guys anything?

Absolutely.

Chicks did the longball.

KronoRed
07-12-2007, 09:44 PM
Ugh.

oneupper
07-12-2007, 09:45 PM
Have the Mets announcer been this snarky all day?

Yep.

"REDS have to play .700 to finish at .500".

"That's why they're a last place team"...

etc..etc.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:45 PM
They weren't out-talented by the Mets today. A loser mentality lost that game.

Go on vacation for 3 days and the loser mentality comes back. So much for the change of manager. I hope Mackanin has a closed door meeting with all of them and berates them to no end.

The REDS should be embarrassed by each other.

Eric_Davis
07-12-2007, 09:47 PM
THAT at bat is why I am a Dunn not a supporter.....

Dunn rolled over on a pitch that he should be driving somewhere.....

Just bad.


Dunn has horrible discipline. He could care less what the condition of the game is with his at-bat. He's always going to do it his way. Can't wait until he's no longer a RED.

The Baumer
07-12-2007, 09:47 PM
Yep.

"REDS have to play .700 to finish at .500".

"That's why they're a last place team"...

etc..etc.

My favorite was after Encarnacion stole second.

"You can do that when you're a last place team. You have nothing to lose...These guys have no pressure on them at all."

Ltlabner
07-12-2007, 09:47 PM
Have the Mets announcer been this snarky all day?

Snarky...check.

Condesending...check.

Tossing out useless bits of gibberish...check

Stating the obvious....check. (i.e. "lefties are in demand)

Listend to the last 3 innings of the Mets broadcast. People don't like Marty...fine. That's there perogative. But lets drop the charade that every other broadcast on radio by someone with a last name other than Brenneman is baseball nirvana.

VR
07-12-2007, 09:49 PM
Snarky...check.

Condesending...check.

Tossing out useless bits of gibberish...check

Stating the obvious....check. (i.e. "lefties are in demand)

Listend to the last 3 innings of the Mets broadcast. People don't like Marty...fine. That's there perogative. But lets drop the charade that every other broadcast on radio by someone with a last name other than Brenneman is baseball nirvana.

Looks like Mets announcers were berating the opponent?

oneupper
07-12-2007, 09:51 PM
They weren't out-talented by the Mets today. A loser mentality lost that game.

Go on vacation for 3 days and the loser mentality comes back. So much for the change of manager. I hope Mackanin has a closed door meeting with all of them and berates them to no end.

The REDS should be embarrassed by each other.

Start with Mackanin. He now has transformed back into Narron.

His lineup took Griff and Dunn out of the game (1 for 6, two walks) and the management of the pitchers was textbook Narron.

Two runs against a pretty hittable SP. Pathetic.

Kc61
07-12-2007, 09:54 PM
Start with Mackanin. He now has transformed back into Narron.

His lineup took Griff and Dunn out of the game (1 for 6, two walks) and the management of the pitchers was textbook Narron.

Two runs against a pretty hittable SP. Pathetic.


Two runs -- AND FOUR HITS. The Reds score on home runs only. They do not get hits. They always fail in bigger ballparks because they do not get base hits.

Everybody knocks batting average. You need some guys that get a lot of hits. The Reds don't have that.

SteelSD
07-13-2007, 12:02 AM
Interesting. Apparently, we value "productive outs" except when Adam Dunn produces one that moves a runner into scoring position when down by one Run in the ninth inning with two strikes on him while facing a lefty hammer throwing 97 MPH.

WVRedsFan
07-13-2007, 12:11 AM
Snarky...check.

Condesending...check.

Tossing out useless bits of gibberish...check

Stating the obvious....check. (i.e. "lefties are in demand)

Listend to the last 3 innings of the Mets broadcast. People don't like Marty...fine. That's there perogative. But lets drop the charade that every other broadcast on radio by someone with a last name other than Brenneman is baseball nirvana.

Exactly times two.

Big Klu
07-13-2007, 12:18 AM
I think Hatteberg is great, but he is platooning. Why leave him in against lefty Feliciano in the eighth inning? Against the lefty, isn't Conine the better hitter? Mets gain the advantage lefty-lefty, Reds agree to the disadvantage.

Conine is not going to hit for Griffey, nor for Dunn, so Reds basically are unable to use good righty hitter against Mets lefty relievers.

Ok if Hatte plays against all pitchers, but he is a platoon guy. If so, platoon him.

I support the decision to leave Hatteberg in to hit for himself. It's true that Hatteberg and Conine are a platoon, but it is also a fact that whoever is not starting at 1B is undeniably the strongest bat on the bench that night (unless Griffey, Dunn, or maybe Phillips is getting a night off). I think that it is not very prudent to use your best bat off the bench (in tonight's case, Conine) for one of the better hitters in the lineup. Basically, the platoon determines who starts at 1B, but after the game begins that player remains at 1B for the duration of the game. (The same thing happens when Conine starts at 1B--you rarely, if ever, see Hatteberg PH for him.) Hatteberg and Conine might replace each other as part of a double-switch, but that's about it.




Ross is the closest thing they have to a leader.

Griffey's not a leader. Never has been.

Dunn's not a leader. Never has been.

Gonzo's not a leader.

Freel's a disaster waiting to happen.

Hamilton's not a leader or he wouldn't do what he did.

Phillips isn't a leader.

Hopefully Votto is.

What about Hatteberg?

WVRedsFan
07-13-2007, 12:30 AM
What about Hatteberg?

According to ESPN Radio today...

He gone. Where? Probably to Minnesota (:)) for another promising arm the Twins have given up on.

KittyDuran
07-13-2007, 05:40 AM
Is it an issue of a leader? I don't put that kind of problem all on the shoulders of one player...on a manager maybe...some players lead by example. Griffey at his peak with the Mariners was as good an example as there is.

I don't know what it is. Just that I feel that this team has consigned itself to losing. It's been a losing team for going on eight years now, but one of the reasons last year's (losing) team was so fun was because it didn't seem to have that air about it. Lacking talent, yes, but lacking a desire to win...not quite. I can't explain it, I probably shouldn't try.Winning just enough to lose... or no "killer" instinct. And it has been going on for 6 seasons... well ever since 2000. :(

BRM
07-13-2007, 09:59 AM
Listend to the last 3 innings of the Mets broadcast. People don't like Marty...fine. That's there perogative. But lets drop the charade that every other broadcast on radio by someone with a last name other than Brenneman is baseball nirvana.

Well, for starters, I don't think anyone ever positioned the idea that every other broadcaster was baseball nirvana. Also, the big difference here was the Mets crew was belittling their team's opponent, not their own squad. Brenneman berates his own team on a regular basis.

BRM
07-13-2007, 09:59 AM
Interesting. Apparently, we value "productive outs" except when Adam Dunn produces one that moves a runner into scoring position when down by one Run in the ninth inning with two strikes on him while facing a lefty hammer throwing 97 MPH.

That is interesting, isn't it?

Ltlabner
07-13-2007, 10:11 AM
Well, for starters, I don't think anyone ever positioned the idea that every other broadcaster was baseball nirvana. Also, the big difference here was the Mets crew was belittling their team's opponent, not their own squad. Brenneman berates his own team on a regular basis.

Plenty of people have bragged about how Marty is "unlistenable" and other broadcasts are on such a higher plane. Sure, no one has typed the exact words, "Marty suxx, every other broadcast team rulz!" but over and over it's been positioned that the other teams feed is 100% better than Marty. Well, I just don't hear it. And I've been listening to plenty of other teams feeds lately just to check them out. (well, that and I got MLB.tv premium without reading the blackout rules. Since I can not get any Reds games I figured I better watch a lot of other teams ballgames to make up for it). I've listened to both TV and radio feeds to check out a range of different folks.

Guess what? Everytime I listen to another teams feed I hear the same things. It wasn't just that the Mets team last night was ripping on the Reds. They were just as condesencding and snotty as Marty can be. They made factual errors. They made goofy comments that had nothing to do with the game. Guess what, they even dared to focus on batting average (gasp!). You are telling me that Keith Hernandez isn't every bit as egotistical and opinionated as Marty? Please. Keith even commented that finding statistics on baseball is "difficult". Huh?

Look, there's already a couple of threads banging on Marty and we've been around and around about it. There's never going to be changing anyones mind because it all boils down to subjective tastes in what people expect from a broadcast.

oneupper
07-13-2007, 10:18 AM
You are telling me that Keith Hernandez isn't every bit as egotistical and opinionated as Marty? Please.

That VOICE! (KH) Aarrgghhhh...:runaway:

BRM
07-13-2007, 10:19 AM
I have to admit, I wasn't a fan of listening to Hernandez last night.

MississippiRed
07-13-2007, 11:13 AM
Ross once again does not block the plate

Flyer, obviously my reply is late in coming, but I think Ross did about as well as could be expected on that play. His left foot is on the correct side of the plate, pointing toward the runner--just like it should be (IMO). It was a great slide by Milledge; I had to look at it several times to see that he actually touched the plate on the back side. Just an excellent slide.

Oh yeah, Hamilton throws him out by about 10 feet.

KronoRed
07-13-2007, 01:33 PM
Winning just enough to lose... or no "killer" instinct. And it has been going on for 6 seasons... well ever since 2000. :(

Heck it's probably been going on longer then that, the 99 team crumbling in Milwaukee comes to mind

KittyDuran
07-13-2007, 01:50 PM
Heck it's probably been going on longer then that, the 99 team crumbling in Milwaukee comes to mindNah... that was Jason Bere putting a hex on them...;)