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Benihana
07-13-2007, 05:16 PM
anyone care to share the Reds version (via pm)? ;)
Thanks.

edabbs44
07-13-2007, 05:20 PM
All I can say is that it isn't a surprise who the biggest disappointment is.

membengal
07-13-2007, 05:20 PM
Is it the Reds?

Oh, wait, the biggest Reds organization disappointment?

Did they go with Bailey?

edabbs44
07-13-2007, 05:25 PM
Is it the Reds?

Oh, wait, the biggest Reds organization disappointment?

Did they go with Bailey?

Not quite.

RedLegsToday
07-13-2007, 05:44 PM
Oh, wait, the biggest Reds organization disappointment?

I'll guess..... Drew Stubbs

mbgrayson
07-13-2007, 07:32 PM
Fair use posting:

From BA: Reds Organization Report, By John Fay

Best Player: Outfielder Jay Bruce......(More)

Biggest Leap Forward: Righthander Richie Gardner ...(More)

Biggest Disappointment: Drew Stubbs ....(More)

RED HOTS
Rick Burleson ...(More)

Kelly, a former big league catcher, was impressed with first-round pick Devin Mesoraco.....(More)

Aronchis
07-13-2007, 07:37 PM
Bailey should be the most dissappointing. His development has stagnated and he isn't any better than he was a year ago.

Patrick Bateman
07-13-2007, 07:42 PM
Bailey should be the most dissappointing. His development has stagnated and he isn't any better than he was a year ago.

I agree with you here. I expected Bailey to continue putting it together and further solidifying his status as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.

He still is, but this has been a failure of a season so far. I expected much more of Bailey than I did others (including Stubbs).

Chi-Town Red
07-13-2007, 07:53 PM
We all pretty much knew the answers already didn't we?

jmcclain19
07-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Excuse my snickering about this comment from Terry Reynolds about the 2006 First Round pick.

"He's got to put the ball in play and use his ability to run," Reynolds said. "He hits a two-hopper to the shortstop and he's got a chance to beat it out."

What happened to the light tower power stuff? Now we're praying for a punch & judy Ichiro wanna be?

flyer85
07-13-2007, 10:24 PM
"He's got to put the ball in play ... they must have missed that when they scouted him.

edabbs44
07-14-2007, 12:15 AM
I agree with you here. I expected Bailey to continue putting it together and further solidifying his status as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.

He still is, but this has been a failure of a season so far. I expected much more of Bailey than I did others (including Stubbs).

Just b/c you hit a bump at the upper levels means nothing. It's not like he is thwarting the Reds postseason plans.

Patrick Bateman
07-14-2007, 12:50 AM
Just b/c you hit a bump at the upper levels means nothing. It's not like he is thwarting the Reds postseason plans.

That's not the point at all.

You were saying that you were not surprised that Stubbs was the biggest dissapointment. Considering you never thought much of him in the 1st place makes it hard for me to believe that you really consider his season dissapointing as much as expected.

Most people on the board have Bailey pegged as an elite prospect, and I'm simply saying that Bailey has nopt taken one positive step forward. His problems from last season (inconsistent command and lack of secondary pitches) have not been solved at all.

I'm not saying that he should have those problem areas fixed by now, but I find it disspointing that he has not taken a positive stride in either area. He is still basically the exact same putcher he was last season.

Bailey still has all of the talent in the world, and I expect him to improve with age, but are you really saying that you have been content with the way 2007 has gone with Bailey? I was hoping for the best pitching prospect the Reds have had in ages to improve, even just a little. Is that really an unreasonable projection for a top prospect?

AmarilloRed
07-14-2007, 02:38 AM
Homer Bailey has looked lights-out at times, and absolutely terrible at others. I do expect him to be much improved in the second half.

edabbs44
07-14-2007, 07:53 AM
That's not the point at all.

You were saying that you were not surprised that Stubbs was the biggest dissapointment. Considering you never thought much of him in the 1st place makes it hard for me to believe that you really consider his season dissapointing as much as expected.

Most people on the board have Bailey pegged as an elite prospect, and I'm simply saying that Bailey has nopt taken one positive step forward. His problems from last season (inconsistent command and lack of secondary pitches) have not been solved at all.

I'm not saying that he should have those problem areas fixed by now, but I find it disspointing that he has not taken a positive stride in either area. He is still basically the exact same putcher he was last season.

Bailey still has all of the talent in the world, and I expect him to improve with age, but are you really saying that you have been content with the way 2007 has gone with Bailey? I was hoping for the best pitching prospect the Reds have had in ages to improve, even just a little. Is that really an unreasonable projection for a top prospect?

The list wasn't based on my personal feelings. It was based on the performance of each player in relation to the hopes of the team.

Anytime you have a top 10 pick fall on their face like he has, he's a shoe-in for biggest disappointment.

Bailey obviously isn't ready for a starring role on the big club. Stubbs obviously isn't ready for High A ball. Huge difference.

Screwball
07-14-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm not saying that he should have those problem areas fixed by now, but I find it disspointing that he has not taken a positive stride in either area. He is still basically the exact same putcher he was last season.


I agree with you to an extent, but I saw Bailey really improving in his last few start at AAA before his promotion. His BBs started dropping and he was striking 'em out at a very nice rate, while keeping his anemic ERA low. The problem is, he now has to make his improvements against the toughest level of competition. Just like any golfer will tell you it's a heckuva lot easier going from a 30 handicap to a 25 than from 5 handicap to scratch, it's tougher for Bailey to make that final leap now that he's facing MLB hitters. It may be disappointing for some, but I see it as normal progression for a still very young pitcher.

tbball10
07-14-2007, 12:39 PM
uncalled for comments removed

kfm
07-14-2007, 12:52 PM
The biggest disappointment has to be Drew Stubbs. Here is a guy who is older than both Bailey and Bruce (O'briens two first round picks) and is struggling at low a ball. This was a lousy pick. (Could have been Lincecrum) If Krivsky would read moneyball he would realize, that guys who can't make contact in college don't magically start making contact in the pros. Look on the dayton team and look at all the guys who are younger and less touted than stubbs who are out producing him. Bailey put up outstanding numbers in AAA and has had several good and a couple of bad starts in the majors. Some people just expect too much too soon from Bailey. It will take Bailey time in the Majors just like it took almost every pitcher who has ever put on a uniform. For a college guy to struggle this poorly in low A as a first round pick is without a doubt the biggest disappointment to this organization.

dougdirt
07-14-2007, 01:28 PM
In defense of Stubbs, the guy has been hurt almost since day 1 in the Reds organization. The Reds and some of their fans have been spoiled by the likes of Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey. Not all first round picks, heck hardly any first round picks turn out to be what they are/were in the minors. Sure, Stubbs hasnt performed as I would say anyone has liked, but the guy has been hurt, especially this year enough that since day 1 of the season its been a 'he needs surgery after the season' thing.

chicoruiz
07-14-2007, 03:13 PM
Kevin Goldstein of BP picked Josh Roenicke as the biggest positive surprise over Gardner; they're both pretty good choices.

edabbs44
07-14-2007, 04:57 PM
In defense of Stubbs, the guy has been hurt almost since day 1 in the Reds organization. The Reds and some of their fans have been spoiled by the likes of Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey. Not all first round picks, heck hardly any first round picks turn out to be what they are/were in the minors. Sure, Stubbs hasnt performed as I would say anyone has liked, but the guy has been hurt, especially this year enough that since day 1 of the season its been a 'he needs surgery after the season' thing.

Doug, I realize you are trying to look at things on the bright side but are you aware of any college top 10 picks who struggled this badly in Low A and still had a productive major league career? I understand that he is a little banged up, but it doesn't seem to be enough to make him into this.

I know that the question is a tough one, but just curious more than anything.

Superdude
07-14-2007, 05:38 PM
Are you talking about the turf toe thing Doug? How exactly would that effect him at the plate?

dougdirt
07-14-2007, 07:10 PM
Are you talking about the turf toe thing Doug? How exactly would that effect him at the plate?

Im going to go with balance, transfer of weight, turning your hips.... it all starts in your feet and legs.


Doug, I realize you are trying to look at things on the bright side but are you aware of any college top 10 picks who struggled this badly in Low A and still had a productive major league career? I understand that he is a little banged up, but it doesn't seem to be enough to make him into this.

I know that the question is a tough one, but just curious more than anything.
I had a conversation with M2 about it the other day and he couldnt find anyone, but I also posed the question of 'does anyone else fit into the cotegory of being hurt like Stubbs has been' and neither of us could tink of anyone either.

kfm
07-14-2007, 07:54 PM
Regardless of the reason, he is the biggest disappointment. No one else comes close to him. I'm not saying that they should get rid of the guy, but he is clearly the biggest dissapintment in the organization for whatever reason.

mbgrayson
07-15-2007, 09:58 AM
Are you talking about the turf toe thing Doug? How exactly would that effect him at the plate?

A quick google search on 'turf toe' found this:
"Turf Toe is a sprain of the metatarsophalangeal (MTP) joint (http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injuries/LE/Foot&Ankle/turf-toe_images.htm)of the first toe. That is, the joint of the toe to the foot is sprained. The injury usually results from a hyperflexion mechanism (http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injuries/LE/Foot&Ankle/turf-toe_images.htm); the toe is bent to far upward. This can result from a hard push off on a rigid surface, having the toe forcibly flexed while being tackled, or by stopping short allowing the toe to jam in the toe box of the shoe. These mechanisms cause damage to the ligaments of the joint and the joint capsule."

"The immediate treatment for all grades of sprains is the same, Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevation. This is the standard for acute care of any athletic injury."

This info is from THIS WEB SITE (http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injuries/LE/Foot&Ankle/turf_-_toe.htm).