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View Full Version : Walt Jocketty and Tony Larussa for 2008?



mound_patrol
07-16-2007, 03:48 PM
Buster Olney had this to say in his latest blog.

By the way: There continues to be a lot of under-the-radar chatter in baseball about La Russa and St. Louis GM Walt Jocketty moving on to Cincinnati together after this season.

I know this has been brought up before, but I find it interesting that this is still being discussed.

I don't know how I'd feel about this. I'd like to have Jocketty running the show, but I've grown to hate Larussa from his days as a Cardinals manager. Larussa has had great success in his years as a manager, but there also seems to be more disagreements lately in the Cardinals clubhouse.

JLB5
07-16-2007, 04:17 PM
I have a long standing hatred of LaRussa going back to the Oakland Bash Bros days. However, if it means bringing in Dave Duncan, I'm on board.

Degenerate39
07-16-2007, 04:52 PM
I don't like Tony La Russa I don't want him any where near a manager job in Cincinnati.

redsfanfalcon
07-16-2007, 04:55 PM
Can't stand LaRussa, (it must be the glasses and sheer arrogance?)but he has a history of winning...I'd much rather just have Dave Duncan and Jocketty, but I am sure it's a package deal.

AmarilloRed
07-16-2007, 04:55 PM
They mentioned Jocketty and La Russa; no mention was made of Duncan.

757690
07-16-2007, 05:18 PM
Most people seem to hate LaRussa because he is arrogant, and he is. But that comes from winning at every managing job you have ever had. I would love to have all the other fans hate LaRussa because he lead the Reds to the World Series.
I would much rather have to deal with his attitude, than Uncle Carl's, who once asked members of the Reds front office why everyone was so obsessed with winning.

mound_patrol
07-16-2007, 05:28 PM
They mentioned Jocketty and La Russa; no mention was made of Duncan.

Olney did answer a question in his Q and A session about Duncan following Larussa and Olney thought that Duncan would probably go wherever Tony went.

nate
07-16-2007, 07:08 PM
Most people seem to hate LaRussa because he is arrogant, and he is. But that comes from winning at every managing job you have ever had. I would love to have all the other fans hate LaRussa because he lead the Reds to the World Series.
I would much rather have to deal with his attitude, than Uncle Carl's, who once asked members of the Reds front office why everyone was so obsessed with winning.

Interesting. I had to look it up because I thought that LaRussa had a pretty bad record with the Chicago "Shorts and" White Sox but he actually had a .506 winning percentage with that team over 7.5 years.

Another interesting tidbit, he was 34 when he started managing in 1979.

Chi-Town Red
07-16-2007, 07:58 PM
whatever we do DON'T BRING ANY WINNERS...come on do you want to win or whine for the next 5 years...and he will bring Duncan!

mound_patrol
07-16-2007, 08:11 PM
whatever we do DON'T BRING ANY WINNERS...come on do you want to win or whine for the next 5 years...and he will bring Duncan!

I've talked to a couple of athletic trainers who have said that they don't like Duncan because of his missuse of the pitchers arms. But I think I would take the chance with him managing our staff. The combination of Jocketty, larussa, and Duncan would be a huge upgrade from the fodder we've had around here the past decade.

redsfanfalcon
07-16-2007, 08:14 PM
Would Duncan want to leave his son, Chris?

cacollinsmba
07-16-2007, 08:43 PM
Can't stand LaRussa, (it must be the glasses and sheer arrogance?)


I hear you. At least Bobby Valentine's glasses had a moustache attached.

CRedsLarkin11
07-16-2007, 09:27 PM
I would be surprised if this actually happened but I'm happy that the Reds job seems to be interesting to some proven winners

BearcatShane
07-16-2007, 11:55 PM
Things overheard at Wrigley tonight
This from a high ranking baseball official:
"Mark it down....Wayne Krivsky out at the end of the year and Walt Jocketty in as Reds GM"
What about LaRussa?
"Not sure about that end of things"

BearcatShane
07-16-2007, 11:57 PM
I'd love a package of Jocketty as GM, Girardi as manager, and Paul O'neil as bench coach.

jmac
07-17-2007, 12:12 AM
Things overheard at Wrigley tonight
This from a high ranking baseball official:
"Mark it down....Wayne Krivsky out at the end of the year and Walt Jocketty in as Reds GM"
What about LaRussa?
"Not sure about that end of things"

Because of Bob C's relations in past with St Louis, this wouldnt surprise me.

reds44
07-17-2007, 12:21 AM
Jockety I am fine with.

Keep LaRussa away.

BearcatShane
07-17-2007, 12:31 AM
Jockety I am fine with.

Keep LaRussa away.


I agree with that.

Degenerate39
07-17-2007, 12:41 AM
Jockety I am fine with.

Keep LaRussa away.

:thumbup: Sounds good to me

mound_patrol
07-17-2007, 12:43 AM
I would love to bring in Jocketty. And we could do a lot worse than a package of Larussa and Duncan. I may not like the guy, but i sure as heck respect him as a coach.

captainmorgan07
07-17-2007, 12:44 AM
i'll take jocketty anyday i could stomach larussa if it gets us duncan.

ED44
07-17-2007, 12:48 AM
If this is the case, will we see the Reds sit tight on the roster (big names anyway...Dunn/Jr)? I can't imagine Bob giving WK free reign if he isn't going to be back next year. What happens to the roster come the end of the month, could give us a hint whether this will happen in the offseason or not.

kaldaniels
07-17-2007, 01:02 AM
I don't like Tony La Russa I don't want him any where near a manager job in Cincinnati.

I don't like Jeff Kent. I don't like ARod. I don't like Roger Clemens. But if they are performing well, I'll take them on the Reds anyday. I guess I'm in the "nice guys finish last" field of thought. Alot of this "we don't want LaRussa" talk seems more personal than anything...gotta look past that if it makes the team better.

AmarilloRed
07-17-2007, 01:33 AM
I would accept La Russa if he could make the Reds a winner- and I don't like La Russa.

AmarilloRed
07-17-2007, 01:39 AM
I never believed there would be major changes at the trade deadline-and I don't want them.

BearcatShane
07-17-2007, 02:52 AM
I never believed there would be major changes at the trade deadline-and I don't want them.



I have a feeling you might be a little dissapointed then. (at least I hope you are)

REDblooded
07-17-2007, 07:29 AM
I think it's hilarious that so many people stroke Jocketty, and rip Krivsky. What's Krivsky done to earn your ire? Traded Kearns and Lopez for a package of middle relievers. You do realize that Jocketty traded HAREN and Daric Barton, one of the minors top prospects for Mark freaking Mulder right? Also, he works with a payroll (without looking this up) 20-30 million more than Krivsky and his teams this year and last are only mildly more succesful than the Reds (i'm pretty sure that we all agree that the world series last year was flukish). Their minor leagues? One of the worst systems in baseball. Yeah, the cards can keep Jocketty and LaRussa.

BurgervilleBuck
07-17-2007, 08:25 AM
Jocketty is different from what the Reds have now and the fans want change on the field. Some think the only way to do that is to fire the GM. Doing so, they think, will yield instant success. But I don't think that's going to happen. There's too much instability in the front office and in the coaching office to bring us that winning team right off the bat.

I have absolutely no control over who the Reds choose as GM, manager, bench coach, peanut vendor or spittoon cleaner. Keep Krivsky, hire Jocketty, meh, I don't really care -- just right the damn ship.

Chi-Town Red
07-17-2007, 08:51 AM
If WK is allowed to make a big trade, he will stay. If nothing happens hes gone. Bring on Jocketty

mound_patrol
07-17-2007, 12:16 PM
I think it's hilarious that so many people stroke Jocketty, and rip Krivsky. What's Krivsky done to earn your ire? Traded Kearns and Lopez for a package of middle relievers. You do realize that Jocketty traded HAREN and Daric Barton, one of the minors top prospects for Mark freaking Mulder right? Also, he works with a payroll (without looking this up) 20-30 million more than Krivsky and his teams this year and last are only mildly more succesful than the Reds (i'm pretty sure that we all agree that the world series last year was flukish). Their minor leagues? One of the worst systems in baseball. Yeah, the cards can keep Jocketty and LaRussa.

Sure you can rip that trade now, but how bad was that trade really? Should A's fans be calling for Beanes head because he traded away Harang for an outfielder?
When the trade was made the Cardinals had just come off being swept in the World Series. So their thoughts were that 2005 was the team to win it all, and all they needed was a quality arm to go with Carpenter. So they traded a 24 year old top prospect for a 27 year old established starter. Sure that trade looks bad now, but Carpenter and Mulder would have been a nice 1-2 punch had both stayed healthy. Mulder also had 2 years left when they traded for him so it's not like they were giving up the house for a one year rental either.

Grande Donkey
07-17-2007, 01:32 PM
Buster Olney had this to say in his latest blog.

By the way: There continues to be a lot of under-the-radar chatter in baseball about La Russa and St. Louis GM Walt Jocketty moving on to Cincinnati together after this season.

I know this has been brought up before, but I find it interesting that this is still being discussed.

I don't know how I'd feel about this. I'd like to have Jocketty running the show, but I've grown to hate Larussa from his days as a Cardinals manager. Larussa has had great success in his years as a manager, but there also seems to be more disagreements lately in the Cardinals clubhouse.
Is there a link to this? Id like to show it to a friend.

mound_patrol
07-17-2007, 01:53 PM
Is there a link to this? Id like to show it to a friend.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster

it's about a 5th of the way down the page in his blog, after the Bush interview.

Not sure if you have to be an ESPN insider to read his blog though.

Slyder
07-17-2007, 02:52 PM
LaRussa is one of the most overhyped managers in baseball right now. His time with the A's they got to 3 World Series where they were heavy favorites and if not for an earthquake letting him pitch Stewart 3 times that series they might have lost that one too. St. Louis same deal, he's always had the talent to be among the top teams but he usually chokes when someone turns up the heat.

Dave Duncan and Walt??? Bring em in!!!

Paul O'Neill or Barry Larkin for hitting coach/bench coaches?

jimbo
07-17-2007, 03:10 PM
St. Louis same deal, he's always had the talent to be among the top teams but he usually chokes when someone turns up the heat.


He won a World Series last year with what many would call an average talented team. It's hard to argue his ability as a manager based on his numbers. Agreed, he has managed for some successful organizations, but St. Louis has never been considered an organization that compared to others like New York, Boston, etc. who are always loaded with talent.

The fact is that he knows how to win and that's exactly the mentality that needs to be infused into the Reds clubhouse.

George Anderson
07-17-2007, 03:11 PM
Paul O'Neill or Barry Larkin for hitting coach/bench coaches?


I always see on this board people mentioning O'Neill and Larkin as potential coaches or managers, but I have never heard from either of these two individuals that they are interested at all in getting in to coaching let alone being a coach for the Reds.

If we are only hoping and speculating a former Red wants to be a coach then lets go for broke and speculate Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan and Tony Perez are coming back to coach next year!!!

.

Slyder
07-17-2007, 04:56 PM
He won a World Series last year with what many would call an average talented team. It's hard to argue his ability as a manager based on his numbers. Agreed, he has managed for some successful organizations, but St. Louis has never been considered an organization that compared to others like New York, Boston, etc. who are always loaded with talent.

The fact is that he knows how to win and that's exactly the mentality that needs to be infused into the Reds clubhouse.

Thank Dave Duncan's projects for that. Payroll that usually bordered in the 90-100 mil range I think but that may not be in the Mets range but its up there.

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/04/04/daily60.html $92.1 mil in 05 and...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cardinals/2006-12-06-bargains_x.htm

Doesnt say exact amount but probably in the mid-$90s million ballpark.

REDblooded
07-17-2007, 05:16 PM
so i have one person's reasoning on why that trade wasn't awful at the time. Yet no comments on why the cardinals have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, or why the Cardinals are only marginaly better than the Reds with 20-30 million more in payroll, and featuring one of the best players in the game?

mound_patrol
07-17-2007, 05:29 PM
so i have one person's reasoning on why that trade wasn't awful at the time. Yet no comments on why the cardinals have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, or why the Cardinals are only marginaly better than the Reds with 20-30 million more in payroll, and featuring one of the best players in the game?

Do you disagree with the reasoning for the trade? As for the system how much does the GM do? I know he hires the assistant that does the draft but he isnt pulling the trigger. He could just as easily leave our guy in place to run the draft, I think its Buckley??? And they've had a couple guys pan out from their minors...Pujols.

If your opinion is that Krivsky deserves more time or has been great here in Cincinnati that's your opinion. My opinion of Krivsky isn't a good one.

jmac
07-17-2007, 07:34 PM
If this is the case, will we see the Reds sit tight on the roster (big names anyway...Dunn/Jr)? I can't imagine Bob giving WK free reign if he isn't going to be back next year. What happens to the roster come the end of the month, could give us a hint whether this will happen in the offseason or not.

I was thinking this same thing.

uoduck1017
07-17-2007, 09:08 PM
Hopefully the Reds don't completely stand pat because they definately have some good trading chips (Weathers, Hatteberg...etc.)

Chi-Town Red
07-17-2007, 09:20 PM
something will happen as far as trades...but i doubt its one of our big guys

jmac
07-17-2007, 10:09 PM
I dont get to listen to a whole lot of reds games but when I do,the 2nd inning guest usually gets asked the same type questions like tonight on EG' s return or someone else's status.
Has Marty ever addressed Hal, C, John about this ?
If so, what was the response concerning Jocketty and friends ?

tripleaaaron
07-17-2007, 11:28 PM
so i have one person's reasoning on why that trade wasn't awful at the time. Yet no comments on why the cardinals have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, or why the Cardinals are only marginaly better than the Reds with 20-30 million more in payroll, and featuring one of the best players in the game?

perhaps they are unable to sustain success without performance enhancers.

Slyder
07-17-2007, 11:33 PM
I dont get to listen to a whole lot of reds games but when I do,the 2nd inning guest usually gets asked the same type questions like tonight on EG' s return or someone else's status.
Has Marty ever addressed Hal, C, John about this ?
If so, what was the response concerning Jocketty and friends ?

They probably won't ever put their 2 cents on it in. Because that could be seen as tampering and would/could bring a fine from the league among other punishment as long as Jocketty is under contract for another team.

jmac
07-17-2007, 11:35 PM
They probably won't ever put their 2 cents on it in. Because that could be seen as tampering and would/could bring a fine from the league among other punishment as long as Jocketty is under contract for another team.

:thumbup:

Blue
07-17-2007, 11:40 PM
I don't want either one of them. The Cardinals, despite their success, haven't attracted a big name free agent since Mark McGwire. Ya think anyone is standing in line to play for LaRussa?

As for Jocketty, they have a god-awful farm system and have not produced many players for their team over the last several years. Paper tiger that fell ass backwards into a World Series. Plus he hired LaRussa, and from the sound of these reports, has such poor judgment that he wants to go where LaRussa does.

I hope they're just trying to squeeze another $mil or $2mil out of the St. Louis owner.

kaldaniels
07-18-2007, 12:24 AM
Wow. Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting. You would think the Cardinals are not a sucessful franchise by reading some of them. Reds fans (at least me) would give anything to have the sucess of the Cards over the past 10 years.

It makes me afraid to see the complaining if the Reds actually do turn the franchise around.

162-0 and there'd be complaining. :bang:

Blue
07-18-2007, 12:46 AM
Wow. Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting. You would think the Cardinals are not a sucessful franchise by reading some of them. Reds fans (at least me) would give anything to have the sucess of the Cards over the past 10 years.

It makes me afraid to see the complaining if the Reds actually do turn the franchise around.

162-0 and there'd be complaining. :bang:

What a fantastic argument. I'm convinced.

REDblooded
07-18-2007, 01:26 AM
Do you disagree with the reasoning for the trade? As for the system how much does the GM do? I know he hires the assistant that does the draft but he isnt pulling the trigger. He could just as easily leave our guy in place to run the draft, I think its Buckley??? And they've had a couple guys pan out from their minors...Pujols.

If your opinion is that Krivsky deserves more time or has been great here in Cincinnati that's your opinion. My opinion of Krivsky isn't a good one.


You're saying the GM has no hand in the draft? I disagree. Jocketty would want to bring his own people in (as Krivsky did), and by and large, they're unsuccesful. Great, you can point to Pujols......as long as Jocketty has been GM, you've named one.

And yes, my opinion is that Krivsky deserves more time. Face it, he came into a situation where he had to be as creative as possible to bring players in to a team where almost 50% of the teams budget was tied up in 3 players. Milton, Dunn, and Griffey. Those weren't his contracts, but he's been hurt by them. You can point to the bullpen as his lone shortcoming, but face it, most bullpens are built through the minors, and there hasn't been enough time to tell whether he'll be able to build that or not. The things he has done right though have been MASSIVELY underappreciated. Phillips. Hamilton. Those two low cost moves are the type that can catapult a team into elite status. Now he just has to get rid of the huge contracts, and let a few of his drafts pan out or flop, and then we'll be able to see what his mark really is.

kaldaniels
07-18-2007, 01:43 AM
What a fantastic argument. I'm convinced.

In the 2000's...

6 Division Titles
2 World Series Appearances
1 World Series Championship

Yet you claim the GM/Manager don't know how to run a team???

mound_patrol
07-18-2007, 10:29 AM
You're saying the GM has no hand in the draft? I disagree. Jocketty would want to bring his own people in (as Krivsky did), and by and large, they're unsuccesful. Great, you can point to Pujols......as long as Jocketty has been GM, you've named one.

And yes, my opinion is that Krivsky deserves more time. Face it, he came into a situation where he had to be as creative as possible to bring players in to a team where almost 50% of the teams budget was tied up in 3 players. Milton, Dunn, and Griffey. Those weren't his contracts, but he's been hurt by them. You can point to the bullpen as his lone shortcoming, but face it, most bullpens are built through the minors, and there hasn't been enough time to tell whether he'll be able to build that or not. The things he has done right though have been MASSIVELY underappreciated. Phillips. Hamilton. Those two low cost moves are the type that can catapult a team into elite status. Now he just has to get rid of the huge contracts, and let a few of his drafts pan out or flop, and then we'll be able to see what his mark really is.

How bout the fact that he pulled off one of the worst trades in baseball history. And I think Kriv's judgement isnt worth a darn. It tells me a lot when hes constantly letting guys like Castro, Stanton, and Moeller play at the big league level. Everyone and their mother knew that castro was no longer the defensive specialist. The same thing last year could have been said for Clayton. But no, Krivsky continues to praise their defensive abilities.

Yes I know he has found a few cheap players that have panned out huge for us. And I think that Krivsky does a nice job at handling negotiations with players already under contract. But I don't want Krivsky to be the guy that has to make the hard decisions.

REDblooded
07-18-2007, 11:37 AM
one of the worst trades in baseball history? based on what? the profound leap to superstardom that both kearns and lopez have taken in Washington? If you can't see that trade for what it was, I can't help you. It was a salary dump, plain and simple. Both players were arbitration eligible, and Krivsky moved them for help in the teams most glaring shortcoming, the bullpen. Now neither of those guys have panned out, but both have/had a lot of upside. Majewski was an above average reliever before the injury, and Bray has a bunch of potential. You wanna talk trades? How about getting Phillips and Hamilton for cash? That's what I'd call pulling off a major steal. Moeller and Castro, I have no excuse for, but in all honesty, how many games have those 2 cost the reds? Not saying they should be on the major league roster, but they're one small issue against a GM that for the most part, has done a great job with what he's had to work with.

mound_patrol
07-18-2007, 11:48 AM
one of the worst trades in baseball history? based on what? the profound leap to superstardom that both kearns and lopez have taken in Washington? If you can't see that trade for what it was, I can't help you. It was a salary dump, plain and simple. Both players were arbitration eligible, and Krivsky moved them for help in the teams most glaring shortcoming, the bullpen. Now neither of those guys have panned out, but both have/had a lot of upside. Majewski was an above average reliever before the injury, and Bray has a bunch of potential. You wanna talk trades? How about getting Phillips and Hamilton for cash? That's what I'd call pulling off a major steal. Moeller and Castro, I have no excuse for, but in all honesty, how many games have those 2 cost the reds? Not saying they should be on the major league roster, but they're one small issue against a GM that for the most part, has done a great job with what he's had to work with.

If you are still defending the trade to this day then there is no point in having a discussion with you because you must be krivsky's cousin. I'd rather take our chances with someone else running the team the Krivsky after i've seen what he's done.

jimbo
07-18-2007, 12:01 PM
How bout the fact that he pulled off one of the worst trades in baseball history.

Based on what?

I keep hearing this yet I keep seeing the putrid numbers of Kearns and Lopez. In the end, the Reds may very well come out on the better end of that trade. It's not nearly as bad of a trade that many Reds fans still say it is.

Ludwig Reds Fan
07-18-2007, 12:30 PM
so i have one person's reasoning on why that trade wasn't awful at the time. Yet no comments on why the cardinals have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, or why the Cardinals are only marginaly better than the Reds with 20-30 million more in payroll, and featuring one of the best players in the game?


And yet, when October rolls around, the Cards are always where they are, and the Reds are always where they are.

Sometimes it is counterproductive to simplify things. Not in this case. LaRussa knows how to win, has won before, and continues to win. Meanwhile, the Reds are on interim manager number what? 12?

Caveman Techie
07-18-2007, 12:35 PM
Stop letting the performance of the players the Reds traded get in the way of their sainthood in Redsland. /sarcasm

Personally I'm still neutral to the trade. Maj and Bray haven't exactly torn it up here either, but there is still time for them, just like there is still time for Kearns and Lopez to turn it up in Washington. We'll see how this really turns out down the road.

mound_patrol
07-18-2007, 01:37 PM
Based on what?

I keep hearing this yet I keep seeing the putrid numbers of Kearns and Lopez. In the end, the Reds may very well come out on the better end of that trade. It's not nearly as bad of a trade that many Reds fans still say it is.

The trade is bad because he got way under market value for them. He rushed the trade because the bullpen was collapsing and wasted the top two trading chips for the Reds.

REDblooded
07-18-2007, 01:40 PM
If you are still defending the trade to this day then there is no point in having a discussion with you because you must be krivsky's cousin. I'd rather take our chances with someone else running the team the Krivsky after i've seen what he's done.

Dear Austin Kearns mom,

I think you have it backwards.......when the trade was first pulled, i nearly dropped deuce in my Reds cap. But I'm not so stubborn to see when I was wrong. On first impression, the trade looked pretty terrible, but if you allow yourself to look at it a bit more objectively, I think you'll see my point.

sincerely,
krivsky's cousin

REDblooded
07-18-2007, 01:45 PM
And yet, when October rolls around, the Cards are always where they are, and the Reds are always where they are.

Sometimes it is counterproductive to simplify things. Not in this case. LaRussa knows how to win, has won before, and continues to win. Meanwhile, the Reds are on interim manager number what? 12?

I'll agree. The Cardinals are where they are, and the Reds are where they are. The Cardinals also have done it with 20+ million more in budget, and organizational continuity. Krivsky hasn't had the benefit of either. I'd rather reserve judgement until he has had a few years to completely get his own system together, and see what he does with more than 1 FA period under his belt, as well as having some financial flexibility.

jimbo
07-18-2007, 02:24 PM
The trade is bad because he got way under market value for them. He rushed the trade because the bullpen was collapsing and wasted the top two trading chips for the Reds.

I respectfully disagree that Kearns and Lopez were top trading chips as they both were due for big raises and neither had a proven track record. And what I mean by proven is that they neither had proven productivity over an extended period of major league time. Lopez had the one all-star season, but has been average at best the rest of his major league time. Kearns had never been able to stay healthy long enough to really determine what kind of player he was.

In my opinion, Reds fans in general way overvalued both Kearns and Lopez.

REDblooded
07-18-2007, 03:00 PM
Also Mound, please tell me exactly what you would've perceived to be fair value for 2 arbitration eligible players with known attitude and injury problems. The Brewers gave up Carlos Lee to get Francisco Cordero. Use that as your gauge for what bullpen help costs. And please, spare me the ignorant response of how much better Cordero is than what the Reds got in return. Lopez and Kearns are nowhere near the players that Lee is, Cordero makes WAY more than Bray/Majewski, and had 1.5 years under contract when the deal was made.

mound_patrol
07-18-2007, 04:53 PM
Also Mound, please tell me exactly what you would've perceived to be fair value for 2 arbitration eligible players with known attitude and injury problems. The Brewers gave up Carlos Lee to get Francisco Cordero. Use that as your gauge for what bullpen help costs. And please, spare me the ignorant response of how much better Cordero is than what the Reds got in return. Lopez and Kearns are nowhere near the players that Lee is, Cordero makes WAY more than Bray/Majewski, and had 1.5 years under contract when the deal was made.

We traded two starters for two middle relievers that didn't have a very long track record. We got a short stop that couldn't hit and no longer could play defense. We also got a middle infielder that we didn't have any intentions on keeping. If we're lucky we may get a productive career out of Bray and Thompson and thats it. If we had waited until the deadline or even the offseason we could have gotten better prospects.

The Brewers also got Kevin Mench and Lance Nix in that deal.

redsfanmia
07-19-2007, 08:55 PM
:deadhorse:deadhorse
We traded two starters for two middle relievers that didn't have a very long track record. We got a short stop that couldn't hit and no longer could play defense. We also got a middle infielder that we didn't have any intentions on keeping. If we're lucky we may get a productive career out of Bray and Thompson and thats it. If we had waited until the deadline or even the offseason we could have gotten better prospects.

The Brewers also got Kevin Mench and Lance Nix in that deal.

:deadhorse