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View Full Version : Rheal Cormier, David Ross, Ryan Freel, Todd Coffey, and Bronson Arroyo



reds44
07-16-2007, 06:31 PM
Rheal Cormier Since Extension-
Last year: 14 IP, 21 H, 4 BB, 7 ER, 4.50 ERA
This year: 3 IP, 4 H, 1 BB, 3 ER, 9.00 ERA
Retired.

Davis Ross Since Extension-
.190/.243/.389
14 HR, 32 RBIs

Ryan Freel-
.243/.299/.350

Todd Coffey-
35.2 IP, 46 H, 12 BB, 4.79 ERA

Bronson Arroyo-
3-10, 118.2 IP, 135 H, 39 BB, 4.78 ERA

What do they have in common?

All guys who got extensions from Wayne Krivsky, and all guys who aren't deserving those extensions right now.

As everyday goes by, it becomes harder and harder for me to defend Wayne Krivsky.

jimbo
07-16-2007, 07:01 PM
Cormier obviously was a huge mistake.

Ross is here for what he does behind the plate, his bat is secondary so that extension is still okay with me. Who else would take his place? Jason LaRue?

Ryan Freel is what he is. His hitting numbers may have dropped some, but they were never that great to begin with and his worth lies with the fact that he can play so many different positions. He's still valuable as a super-sub and is why he got an extension.

Coffey has certainly struggled this season which happens a lot to young pitchers. I think the extension still made sense at the time and expect him to get back to how he pitched last season.

Arroyo is just getting blasted by fans, but has been pretty effective with the exception of 4 or so starts during that strech in May-June. He eats a lot of innings and is perfectly suited for #2 or #3 slot in a rotation, which is why he got the extension. I still like him.

So, the only one I can see being fairly criticized is Cormier. The rest of the ones you mentioned are still acceptable in my opinion, especially considering what players are getting on the open market.

mound_patrol
07-16-2007, 07:41 PM
He also gave an extension to Aaron Harang. And I still like that Arroyo got the extension he got. Coffey could still be good down the line, but I never understood why he got the extension while he was still in arbitration years.

But I'm definitly on the ship that wants Krivsky gone. He's made some moves that helped us out, but it's not like they were tough moves to make. But he's also made a lot more mistakes that have crippled the team for this year.

nate
07-16-2007, 07:50 PM
He also gave an extension to Aaron Harang. And I still like that Arroyo got the extension he got. Coffey could still be good down the line, but I never understood why he got the extension while he was still in arbitration years.

But I'm definitly on the ship that wants Krivsky gone. He's made some moves that helped us out, but it's not like they were tough moves to make. But he's also made a lot more mistakes that have crippled the team for this year.

The moves have to be good and tough to make him a good GM?

If you could take back any of the moves he's made, which one do you think would've made us "uncrippled" this year?

mound_patrol
07-16-2007, 08:08 PM
The moves have to be good and tough to make him a good GM?

If you could take back any of the moves he's made, which one do you think would've made us "uncrippled" this year?

What I meant by moves that were easy to make for him were things like picking philips and ross off of waivers last year. They were cheap and helped the team out a lot last year. The same can be said about Hamilton. He's made a lot of moves that have made the team worse. He signed old vets to multi year deals when everyone knew they were declining. He gave extensions to guys that were unnecessary. Guys like coffey and freel. Ross shouldn't have gotten an extension after only one good year.

nate
07-16-2007, 08:27 PM
What I meant by moves that were easy to make for him were things like picking philips and ross off of waivers last year. They were cheap and helped the team out a lot last year. The same can be said about Hamilton. He's made a lot of moves that have made the team worse. He signed old vets to multi year deals when everyone knew they were declining. He gave extensions to guys that were unnecessary. Guys like coffey and freel. Ross shouldn't have gotten an extension after only one good year.

But you said that he made moves that crippled the team this year. I was interested in hearing what move you thought did that most. So if you could have a "do-over" on one of those moves, which would it be and what would you do instead?

jimbo
07-16-2007, 08:31 PM
What I meant by moves that were easy to make for him were things like picking philips and ross off of waivers last year.

Ross wasn't take off waivers, he was signed as a free agent. And if they were such "easy" moves to make, how come no other team made moves for them? They may have been "easy" moves in your eyes, but Krivsky deserves the credit for recognizing their potential while nobody else did.


The same can be said about Hamilton.

I don't think getting Hamilton was easy whatsoever. The Reds were not the team that actually acquired him through the Rule 5 draft, the Cubs did, so Krivsky did have to work out a trade to get Hamilton. It's also a risk because you have to keep him on the major league roster.


He gave extensions to guys that were unnecessary. Guys like coffey and freel. Ross shouldn't have gotten an extension after only one good year.

What is so bad about the Ross extension? What would you have been your move? Keep LaRue and let Ross go? Whatever Ross does at the plate is a plus in my mind because his main job is what he does behind the plate and he has been quite good at that.

Freel is going to make $3 million next year and $4 the next, for being a super-sub who can play several positions. I think that's a good value considering what he can do. It isn't like they are paying him to be a just a pinch-hitter.

Coffey only got signed to a one-year extension for less than a million. What's the big deal here? Maybe they just wanted to avoid arbritration and the possibility he could get even more than that.

boognish
07-16-2007, 08:52 PM
I think Krivsky overreached trying to change the losing culture (to use the old cliche) by rewarding players who produced good results with deals. The primary problem with that is that you end up "paying for the past." After the season, the question is whether WK buys out Phillips's arbitration years with a new LTC. I'm betting he does, but the resulting poverty paying for these extensions might preclude the roster changing much.

mroby85
07-16-2007, 09:33 PM
coffey was sucking before he got the extension, i was shocked when he got it.

i think ross is the best 190 hitter i've ever seen, i mean he's a catcher and is still producing runs, and has 14 hr's and plays great defense.

arroyo was a good signing he's just hit a rough patch.

terminator
07-16-2007, 11:18 PM
He also signed Dunn, Harang, Hatteberg, Castro and Valentin to extensions. Might as well include those too.

Chi-Town Red
07-16-2007, 11:32 PM
I have never been sold on Coffey..the rest of the extension were warranted IMO

muethibp
07-17-2007, 10:05 AM
I thought we had determined that Coffey was going to be a Super 2 and be arbitration eligible next year and that WK really just gave him his arbitration salary early. Am I wrong on that? If that's the case, and really if it isn't, I like Coffey's extension because it's not big money and the guy has good stuff. He's still learning, to be sure, but I think he's going to be a contributor on this team.

durl
07-17-2007, 10:35 AM
I would think that if we were going to get into a discussion of MLB players that performed below expectations after signing an extension it could last a year.

big boy
07-17-2007, 12:13 PM
i think ross is the best 190 hitter i've ever seen, i mean he's a catcher and is still producing runs, and has 14 hr's and plays great defense.

Great defense? He drops too many popups to deserve being called great.

Cicero
07-17-2007, 12:16 PM
Yep, let's fire Krivsky and start all over again AGAIN. Great plan. Patience is a virtue. Krivsky has been here for how long?

AmarilloRed
07-18-2007, 12:02 AM
Arroyo pitched 7 scoreless innings tonight and won despite the bullpen, so you can take him off your list:D

Fullboat
07-18-2007, 12:56 AM
Arroyo has now 5 quality starts since his last bad one.