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Redlegs
07-18-2007, 07:17 PM
During Wednesday afternoon's Reds broadcast, Jeff Brantley said he just couldn't see Edwin Encarnacion being the Reds third baseman of the future. I am inclined to agree with the Cowboy. I'd rather see more of Keppinger and less of Eddie.

reds44
07-18-2007, 07:18 PM
Keppinger?

lol

What impresses you about Keppinger? 27 (Edwin is 24), and Keppinger has had 190 ABs in his career.

Keppinger is better then Edwin?

At what?

Cowboy has been drinking.

AmarilloRed
07-18-2007, 07:19 PM
Does Keppinger have much experience at third base?

reds44
07-18-2007, 07:20 PM
Does Keppinger have much experience at third base?
Does it matter?

He's 27 and on his 4th team.

Redlegs
07-18-2007, 07:22 PM
What impresses you about Keppinger?

I guess the fact that he makes contact at the plate on a somewhat regular basis.

reds44
07-18-2007, 07:23 PM
I guess the fact that he makes contact at the plate on a somewhat regular basis.
That's done him a whole lot of good so far.

This reminds me of Marty saying Hopper is better then Dunn.

Is something in the water in the Reds radio booth?

Jeff Brantley also said White Sox fans would be crying in their beer before the 2005 season, and that if he could choose anybody in baseball to start a franchise, he would choose Jonathan Papelbon.

Consider the source.

kyred14
07-18-2007, 08:20 PM
Geez. One good game and people are ready to crown Keppinger 3B of future? Keppinger is a good backup infielder, but there's a reason he's with his 4th orgainization. Jeff Brantley just says really dumb things. A lot.

Degenerate39
07-18-2007, 08:23 PM
I guess the fact that he makes contact at the plate on a somewhat regular basis.

0-6 Today

Redlegs
07-18-2007, 08:26 PM
Geez. One good game and people are ready to crown Keppinger 3B of future? Keppinger is a good backup infielder, but there's a reason he's with his 4th orgainization. Jeff Brantley just says really dumb things. A lot.Let me be clear here. Brantley didn't say anything about Keppinger being the 3rd baseman. I threw that in. Brantley simply stated he couldn't see Eddie being the 3rd baseman of the Reds future. I agree with that. As a Reds fan, I'd love to see Eddie prove me wrong. I just don't care for him.

reds44
07-18-2007, 08:28 PM
Let me be clear here. Brantley didn't say anything about Keppinger being the 3rd baseman. I threw that in. Brantley simply stated he couldn't see Eddie being the 3rd baseman of the Reds future. I agree with that. As a Reds fan, I'd love to see Eddie prove me wrong. I just don't care for him.
Care to explain why? And why Keppinger does "do it for you"?

DTCromer
07-18-2007, 08:41 PM
Does it matter?

He's 27 and on his 4th team.


Brendan Harris is on his 5th team and is 27 yet people criticized WK for trading him. . . .and I'm sure you're probably one of those guys.

Fil3232
07-18-2007, 08:48 PM
The Reds need to give EE constant ABs the rest of the year. No way should Freel play over him at 3B. Edwin has struggled a bit this year, but he is way too young with too much potential to give up on now. Especially in a lost year anyway.

uoduck1017
07-18-2007, 08:54 PM
The Reds need to give EE constant ABs the rest of the year. No way should Freel play over him at 3B. Edwin has struggled a bit this year, but he is way too young with too much potential to give up on now. Especially in a lost year anyway.

Bingo. There is no reason why Edwin can't be an average or above-average 3rd basemen for the next couple of years. I think he has the talent to be a very good player, but that talent is wasting away on the bench.

RedsFanWC
07-18-2007, 08:58 PM
Encarnacion just hasnt seemed to make any adjustments this year. The scouting report is out and opposing pitchers are poudning him down and away. He needs to take some balls opposite field otherwise he is just going to be a mistake pitch hitter. Which is fine, but that is only going to get EE to be an average 3B which is what he is right now, average. He is 17th in OPS for everyday 3B (.715) and has the 16th best fielding percentage (tied for the 4th most errors with 9).

Overall EE can be an everyday average player but unless he makes some adjustments, improves his slugging percentage and starts hitting lefthanded pitching better he will not be end up being a star or being a middle of the lineup bat, which some people projected and expected him to be.

redsfanmia
07-18-2007, 09:04 PM
I think Brantley sees him making a position change. I would like to see EE learn to play either outfield or first base. I think he could be a pretty good left fielder. EE is an adaquate hitter but while his defense has improved it still leaves alot to be desired.

Hey Meat
07-18-2007, 09:44 PM
I don't see any future for him with the Reds either. He needs to move on.

TC81190
07-18-2007, 09:49 PM
He is definitely impressing me less and less almost daily.

Chi-Town Red
07-18-2007, 09:53 PM
something is up regarding EE...looks like they are going to try and move him before the deadline....guess he needs a change of scenery...Freel isnt the answer at 3B...but neither is Keppinger....EE and Dunn for Braun and Gwynn?

Fil3232
07-18-2007, 09:56 PM
I think EE is going some sort of sophmore slump this year. His walk rate has been decent enough, he just isn't driving the ball at all. This offseason is ideally the time he needs to adjust to what pitchers are doing to him. I can't shake the sight of Aramis Ramirez in EE. (A late bloomer of sorts who was given away for almost nothing by the Pirates).

Chi-Town Red
07-18-2007, 09:58 PM
I think EE is going some sort of sophmore slump this year. His walk rate has been decent enough, he just isn't driving the ball at all. This offseason is ideally the time he needs to adjust to what pitchers are doing to him. I can't shake the sight of Aramis Ramirez in EE. (A late bloomer of sorts who was given away for almost nothing by the Pirates).yea...good comparison:thumbup:

Redhook
07-18-2007, 10:18 PM
Giving up on a young talented player who has shown a lot of promise is exactly the kind of thing the Reds cannot afford to do.

Redlegs
07-18-2007, 10:20 PM
Care to explain why? And why Keppinger does "do it for you"?Okay, Keppinger is a stretch. I'll admit I'm wrong there. My point is I agree with Brantley on Encarnacion. I feel he's going backwards. He fails to make adjustments at the plate. He swings the same on 0-2 as he does 2-0. I also don't think he has the intensity or attitude of a winner. That's an observation, of course.

reds44
07-18-2007, 10:22 PM
Okay, Keppinger is a stretch. I'll admit I'm wrong there. My point is I agree with Brantley on Encarnacion. I feel he's going backwards. He fails to make adjustments at the plate. He swings the same on 0-2 as he does 2-0. I also don't think he has the intensity or attitude of a winner. That's an observation, of course.
Fails to make adjustments at the plate?

Look at his numbers to April compared to the rest of the year. Do you think it's blind luck that he came out of his slump?

He's in a sophmore slump, it happens. If he was hitting .265 with a .345 OBP and hitting for the power he did last year, nobody would be saying anything. He took pitches the other way all the time last year, and he will do it again.

He's in a sophmore slump. He's not the first to have one, and he won't be the last.

kyred14
07-18-2007, 10:33 PM
Fails to make adjustments at the plate?

Look at his numbers to April compared to the rest of the year. Do you think it's blind luck that he came out of his slump?

He's in a sophmore slump, it happens. If he was hitting .265 with a .345 OBP and hitting for the power he did last year, nobody would be saying anything. He took pitches the other way all the time last year, and he will do it again.

He's in a sophmore slump. He's not the first to have one, and he won't be the last.

You're crazy. Don't you know everytime a player goes into a slump, he must be replaced with some career minor league fodder?

Didn't EE play some winter ball last year? Maybe he's just simply worn out. You can't give up on a 24 year old talent like him. Besides, he's only player in the Reds org. capable of being an everyday 3B. Heck, he already is, it's just the two-headed managing monster hasn't seen it that way.

Chi-Town Red
07-18-2007, 10:54 PM
i hope we dont give up on him...but it just seems not to be working for whatever reason...maybe the demotion really messed him up mentally, although he really played well after being called back up

AmarilloRed
07-18-2007, 11:14 PM
I have publicly called into question whether Edwin is our third baseman of the future. I am very disappointed in his 6 hr and 37 rbi, and I have said so. However, we should give Edwin as many starts as possible in the second half, and let's hope he has a strong second half.

Screwball
07-19-2007, 04:23 AM
maybe the demotion really messed him up mentally, although he really played well after being called back up


You definitely contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

As for being worried about EE? Gimme a break already. While his numbers overall aren't great (he went .842, .821 OPS in May and June respectively), A.) he's 24, B.) sophomore slumps happen, and C.) who the heck do you plan on replacing him with long term??

To give up on a talent like Edwin Encarnacion at this point is borderline criminal. Give him a year or so, and he's a bonafide middle-of-the-lineup type hitter. Just wait and see.

JLB5
07-19-2007, 08:14 AM
It is difficult to evaluate Edwin's performance this year with the way he has been used. In and out, up and down the lineup. No matter what they have done with him, he has driven in runs when given the opportunity. I still contend if they would put him in the top half of the lineup and leave him there, he would put up the numbers some around here want (maybe not the HR, but definitely the RBI). I'm afraid he's fallen out of favor with the organization and will be gone soon. I hope they are showcasing Freel for trade bait. I guess it is wait and see at this point.

ChatterRed
07-19-2007, 09:22 AM
I don't think EE is in the Reds long term plans.

Carolina Red
07-19-2007, 11:05 AM
I agree with Brantley. I think Freel is a much better option at third right now, especially when we have Hamilton healthy. I think Hamilton is the guy who needs to be on the field as much as possible. I just don't like EE's demeanor, the way he always walks back to the dugout dragging his feet, not to mention his inconsistent play. Doesn't seem to have his head in the game all the time. He will never be a great player at this level.

improbus
07-19-2007, 11:18 AM
I just don't think EE is Brantley's kind of player. Cowboy like grinders like Freel and Conine, not guys who seem to fade in and out of the game like Edwin does.

BTW, if anyone watched Brantley on Baseball Tonight regularly, they will remember that his solution to most pitchers problems was to throw at hitters. Getting hit hard, throw at someone. Players leaning out over the plate, hit someone. Hitters watching home runs, hit 'em. Has anyone heard him say that about the Reds relievers this year? I know he's thinking it, but I haven't heard him say it. Kind of disappointing.

Orenda
07-19-2007, 11:19 AM
I agree with Brantley. I think Freel is a much better option at third right now, especially when we have Hamilton healthy. I think Hamilton is the guy who needs to be on the field as much as possible. I just don't like EE's demeanor, the way he always walks back to the dugout dragging his feet, not to mention his inconsistent play. Doesn't seem to have his head in the game all the time. He will never be a great player at this level.

Who cares about if he will be great. I'd settle for good at this point and I think he has definetely shown enough ability that I have faith he can be good. Plus he's going to be affordable for a few years. How do you like Stanton's demeanor when he punches the ground and curses in disgust with himself after a rough outing? Or Ryan Freel's looking back at the umpire after another called third strike? I happen to like players who play with emotion, but sometimes they can look just as childish as the younger players. I've never thought EE has conducted himself in an unproffessional manner, he just hasn't hit as I'd like.

bounty37h
07-19-2007, 11:29 AM
Giving up on a young talented player who has shown a lot of promise is exactly the kind of thing the Reds cannot afford to do.

This is a tough one as well, he's another of those players "on the fence" in my book. I like him a lot, see his potential, but until potential is met, thats all it is. Do you hang on and pray that potential star comes out, or do you trade while potential is still his value? I see your point above, but at the same time, can the Reds afford to waste years and millions simply on a guy with unmet potential, only to have him potentially not reach his potential? This is why we are on a message board making the decisions, but not in the FO making them for real)- I wouldnt want to have to make some of these calls (and from reading many posts on here, Thank God other cant either!!).

Orenda
07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
This is a tough one as well, he's another of those players "on the fence" in my book. I like him a lot, see his potential, but until potential is met, thats all it is. Do you hang on and pray that potential star comes out, or do you trade while potential is still his value? I see your point above, but at the same time, can the Reds afford to waste years and millions simply on a guy with unmet potential, only to have him potentially not reach his potential? This is why we are on a message board making the decisions, but not in the FO making them for real)- I wouldnt want to have to make some of these calls (and from reading many posts on here, Thank God other cant either!!).

Fair enough, but yes I can make this decision. EE is not to blame for this teams record. Bullpen is the number 1 issue. So save on Edwin and spend on bullpen help. I just don't understand the impatience with Edwin after years of Austin Kearns. If it was next season and he hadn't started showing his potential, then I would accept a trade.

BuckU
07-19-2007, 12:00 PM
Giving up on a young talented player who has shown a lot of promise is exactly the kind of thing the Reds cannot afford to do.


So how long do you wait then? EE's only showed glimmers of being an everyday guy, nothing that ever lasts long.

As bad as it sounds (and I don't think it sounds bad, but most people around here do), I'd plug Kepp in there for the time being.

Orenda
07-19-2007, 12:12 PM
So how long do you wait then? EE's only showed glimmers of being an everyday guy, nothing that ever lasts long.

As bad as it sounds (and I don't think it sounds bad, but most people around here do), I'd plug Kepp in there for the time being.

I like Kepp as well. He is a much better option than Castro off the bench. Late inning defensive replacements are a joke with this bullpen. I'd give Edwin the rest of the year and the first half of next year at least. If the team is in it and he's at his .270 15-20 hr 70+ rbi pace I would keep him, if he hasnt shown improvement, then I would deal him. How high is Edwin's trade value right now?

AmarilloRed
07-19-2007, 02:07 PM
I like Keppinger and the fact that he led the IL in batting but remember this; Chris Denorfia hit .350 in Louisvile and what did he accompolish in the majors. Granted, the Reds organization never gave Denorfia a real chance. Freel is not durable enought o play everyday, and I hear Freel is a terrible third baseman. We need to see if Keppinger can play third base before he hand him the starting job. Edwin gets the third base job by default because there is no better option. At least for right now. Edwin better watch the minors to make sure their are no quality third baseman coming up. Do we have any third base prospects in our minor league system?

reds44
07-19-2007, 02:10 PM
I agree with Brantley. I think Freel is a much better option at third right now, especially when we have Hamilton healthy. I think Hamilton is the guy who needs to be on the field as much as possible. I just don't like EE's demeanor, the way he always walks back to the dugout dragging his feet, not to mention his inconsistent play. Doesn't seem to have his head in the game all the time. He will never be a great player at this level.
Freel's current line is .238/,294/.344.

What about that is good?

bounty37h
07-19-2007, 04:28 PM
Fails to make adjustments at the plate?

Look at his numbers to April compared to the rest of the year. Do you think it's blind luck that he came out of his slump?

He's in a sophmore slump, it happens. If he was hitting .265 with a .345 OBP and hitting for the power he did last year, nobody would be saying anything. He took pitches the other way all the time last year, and he will do it again.

He's in a sophmore slump. He's not the first to have one, and he won't be the last.

I know what your saying, but its funny to read you example his getting out of a slump, then the first words in the very next sentence is he is in a slump. :)

bounty37h
07-19-2007, 04:38 PM
Fair enough, but yes I can make this decision. EE is not to blame for this teams record. Bullpen is the number 1 issue. So save on Edwin and spend on bullpen help. I just don't understand the impatience with Edwin after years of Austin Kearns. If it was next season and he hadn't started showing his potential, then I would accept a trade.

Nope, I know EE isnt the blame, never stated or even hinted at that. You kind of are on target with what I am getting at with your Kearns statement, I was saying how long do you hold on before you lose trade value when/if he turns out not to be the player you hoped for/need. We held on to KIearns too long, adn didnt get the value in return we could have got a few years early when potential was his true value. Not saying this is the case with Edwin, simply stating it has to be taken into consideration, even if not acted on.

G-nati
07-19-2007, 06:57 PM
I believe you are right, Encarnacion is not going to be the answer at 3rd. I stated the same thing in another thread a couple of weeks ago. To me when he comes up to bat he looks like he can't wait to get back to the dugout.

I would love for him to start tearing up the league and change a lot of people's impression on him, but I just don't see it happening. Nothing would make me happier. I hope he does.

If a team came looking and offered decent return I wouldn't hesitate for a second on pulling the trigger (I'll let you guys determine what decent return would be for Encarnacion).

I hear what your saying about him being 24 years old and don't give up on him yet and he did show some spark when he got called back up, but there just doesn't seem to be any emotion there. He seems happy with where he is at.....Scratch that. He doesn't seem happy at all. He seems really bothered to me, but at the same time he doesn't show any determination to change anything.

I dunno....Hell it's even starting to frustrate me.

Carolina Red
07-19-2007, 07:51 PM
Who cares about if he will be great. I'd settle for good at this point and I think he has definetely shown enough ability that I have faith he can be good. Plus he's going to be affordable for a few years. How do you like Stanton's demeanor when he punches the ground and curses in disgust with himself after a rough outing? Or Ryan Freel's looking back at the umpire after another called third strike? I happen to like players who play with emotion, but sometimes they can look just as childish as the younger players. I've never thought EE has conducted himself in an unproffessional manner, he just hasn't hit as I'd like.

I don't think he's unprofessional, I just don't see the fire in him that I see in some of the others (including the ones you mentioned). I hope he does pan out, good third basemen are hard to come by. I just think we are a better team this year with Freel at third, making room for a Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey outfield.

TC81190
07-21-2007, 04:11 PM
Last 30 Days Edwin Encarnacion - .219 avg
Last 10 - .171 avg
July - .204
VS. LHP - .215

reds44
07-21-2007, 04:42 PM
Last 30 Days Edwin Encarnacion - .219 avg
Last 10 - .171 avg
July - .204
VS. LHP - .215
We get it. You don't like Edwin.

eichstadtreds
07-21-2007, 06:54 PM
We get it. You don't like Edwin.

We get it you do.

AtomicDumpling
07-21-2007, 07:35 PM
Even with EE's slump, demotion, and lack of playing time his numbers (.261/.340/.709)are still far superior to Ryan Freel's (.245/.307/.668). EE is 24 with lots of time to improve and mature. Freel is 31 and is on the downside of his career.

... so the Reds will probably dump EE and keep Freel.

gedred69
07-21-2007, 07:53 PM
I've said it before, I'll re-state, EE reminds me of Danny Driessen. (For you young guys, the player for whom the Reds decided they didn't need Tony Perez anymore). Like Driessen, EE has all the talent in the world. Just too dumb to play on any team wanting to be a really good team. No, Keppinger isn't the 3rd baseman for the future. There are more than a couple guys in the system who could well be though. If somebody wants EE, they'd have my attention.

TC81190
07-21-2007, 08:55 PM
We get it. You don't like Edwin.

I do. But he's making it very hard.

Screwball
07-21-2007, 09:47 PM
Like Driessen, EE has all the talent in the world. Just too dumb to play on any team wanting to be a really good team.


Ah, I get it now. EE's just too dumb. Makes sense.




:help:

AmarilloRed
07-22-2007, 04:25 PM
Part of the problem can be his playing time. Both Narron and Mackanin have given Encarcion limited playing time, and moved him all around the lineup. Reds management should just stick him in 1 spot in the lineup, and play him everyday for the rest of the year. If he still doesn't improve after that, then we should consider trading him. I am not ready to give up on Edwin yet

Screwball
07-23-2007, 12:21 AM
Part of the problem can be his playing time. Both Narron and Mackanin have given Encarcion limited playing time, and moved him all around the lineup. Reds management should just stick him in 1 spot in the lineup, and play him everyday for the rest of the year. If he still doesn't improve after that, then we should consider trading him. I am not ready to give up on Edwin yet

Well said, AR. I agree 100%.

AmarilloRed
07-23-2007, 01:43 AM
I am not ready to give up on Edwin yet, but I could see Keppinger putting a little pressure on Edwin. Edwin better hope Keppinger comes back to Earth, or he better start playing better if he wants to keep the starting third base job.

BucSappy
07-23-2007, 12:15 PM
EE is still young, but I wouldn't be opposed if the Reds traded for a guy like Brandon Wood or Atlanta's young 3B (forgot his name).

eastkyred
07-23-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm not necessarily voting for Keppinger over EE, but I don't think they are that far apart. Calling Keppinger minor league fodder is a little harsh. The guy is 27, but he hasn't really been given an opportunity to prove anything at the mojor league level yet. EE has been given the chance, and hasn't really taken advantage. (although I wouldn't necessarily say he's been a complete failure.) Kep has proved through all levels of minor league ball that he can really hit. I would like to see a little more of him. Looking at his #'s, he has pretty much torn up minor league pitching for 5 years. I think he's earned a shot. EE hasn't played well enough to keep keppinger from getting a shot. We'll see.

Chi-Town Red
07-23-2007, 08:31 PM
EE will come around he needs more playing time

AmarilloRed
07-24-2007, 01:15 PM
Several people have compared Denorfia and Keppinger. One thing to remember is that Denorfia never achieved anything in his limited playing time. Up to now Keppinger has shown a little power in the majors and hit for a high average. I really am not that interested what he did in the minors.Encarcion will get more playing time if he shows the Reds more offensively than he has up to now.

HokieRed
07-24-2007, 01:32 PM
IMHO, EE has been handled terribly by this organization. He put up an .832 line last year as a 23 year old. This year he has been jerked around, benched, sat down, passed over for guys who have nowhere near the upside etc. He should have had every at bat at third all season, and he still should have all the remaining ones. That's what an organization with a clear sense of identifying its talent and developing it would do. But then an organization like that wouldn't have about 5 or 6 of the players we have on our roster.

JLB5
07-24-2007, 01:42 PM
It goes to make you wonder what the FO/coaching staff see with Edwin that we don't. Maybe he's a bonehead, maybe he is not a hard worker, and maybe he is just misunderstood because he doesn't know the language well. Something is up with this kid, because he has shown plenty of ability in his given opportunities. Yet, he has been dropped in the batting order and now shares playing time with Freel/Kepp. Personally, I would really like to see what he would do playing everyday and hitting in the clean up spot. Doesn't look like that is going to happen. If they are not going to use him, maybe it is better if they trade him. Keppinger looks like he could fill the position and be a good #2 hitter if they can get a good return.

ThatPitchIsDunn
07-24-2007, 02:00 PM
I love Keppinger....as Juan Castro's replacement.

He's not a major league starting 3B, but that doesn't mean he can't be very valuable to this team.

BLEEDS
07-24-2007, 03:25 PM
IMHO, EE has been handled terribly by this organization. He put up an .832 line last year as a 23 year old. This year he has been jerked around, benched, sat down, passed over for guys who have nowhere near the upside etc. He should have had every at bat at third all season, and he still should have all the remaining ones. That's what an organization with a clear sense of identifying its talent and developing it would do. But then an organization like that wouldn't have about 5 or 6 of the players we have on our roster.


Agree 100%. You don't "develop" a guy by not giving him at-bats and moving him all over the lineup.

ALLEGEDLY you wanted to see if EE's 2006 was a one-year wonder? You play him 150 games the next year and find out.

Ryan Freel is batting .240. We're 15 games out of first place. Play EE every game down the stretch and see what he can do.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Orenda
07-24-2007, 03:50 PM
I've said it before, I'll re-state, EE reminds me of Danny Driessen. (For you young guys, the player for whom the Reds decided they didn't need Tony Perez anymore). Like Driessen, EE has all the talent in the world. Just too dumb to play on any team wanting to be a really good team. No, Keppinger isn't the 3rd baseman for the future. There are more than a couple guys in the system who could well be though. If somebody wants EE, they'd have my attention.

Guess what. At some point Tony Perez was the youngster with all the talent and potential. Im too young to remeber Driessen, but I do remember Willie Green, who was highly thought of. Not saying you don't have a valid point, but its my opinion that you have to play EE simply on his potential. That is the way it goes in sports, young talented players are the key to maintaining a consistent winner. Not all of them pan out, but some do. When Edwin is on he is a tough out. He can be really good at letting the ball get deep in the zone and taking it the other way, at times. He does need to start showing better discipline and consistency at the plate. And he should do so everyday for the rest of the season.

Orenda
07-24-2007, 04:07 PM
Dont mean to pick on you gedred69, but your post made me look back to Tony Perez's numbers:
.avg/g/ab/r/h/2b/3b/hr/rbi/bb/k/obp/slg/ops
1964 Cin .080 12 25 1 2 1 0 0 1 3 9 .179 .120 .299
1965 Cin .260 104 281 40 73 14 4 12 47 21 67 .315 .466 .781
1966 Cin .265 99 257 25 68 10 4 4 39 14 44 .304 .381 .685
1967 Cin .290 156 600 78 174 28 7 26 102 33 102 .328 .490 .818
1968 Cin .282 160 625 93 176 25 7 18 92 51 92 .338 .430 .768

Luckily for the reds nobody knocked them over with offers from 64-66.

durl
07-24-2007, 04:45 PM
I can't blame management for sending EE down when they did. Sure, he's in his 2nd year and we have to let the kid develop. The problem was that he was in a huge slump at the plate (batting .217/1 HR/14 RBI when he was sent down after 31 games) as well as the all-too-common throwing errors.

What is the proper way to develop a young player? I'm no manager, but I don't see how moving him around in the lineup hurts him all that much. His spot in the order has changed although he's mostly been the 5, 6, or 7 hitter. I'm sure his spot would be nailed down if they could find one in which he could hit consistently.

At some point potential has got to turn into quality play. I'd like to see him turn it around somehow.

BLEEDS
07-24-2007, 05:04 PM
from the ORG:
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1420118&postcount=29

The presence of a Jeff Keppinger doesn't make Encarnacion expendable in any way, shape, or form. We see plenty of guys like Keppinger cycle in and out of the Show every year. The guy toils in the minors until he's age-prime, shows his face, hits a little bit, demonstrates that he can at least stand at more than one position, and the announcing crew and Joe Average fan goes ga-ga over him even though all but a small handful of Jeff Keppingers ever turn out to be more than fringe utility types.

If you're really lucky, you get a Ryan Freel to hold an open slot for a higher ceiling player for a couple seasons and who can fill in when needed. That being said, the speed game of a Ryan Freel plays much much better than Keppinger's does and the presence of a Freel doesn't make a higher-ceiling player "expendable" either, especially considering that even the "good" Ryan Freels of the world have offensive games that generally ride a fine line between decent and terrible. Triple ditto for Norris-freakin'-Hopper.

Having a Jeff Keppinger isn't a problem (especially if he's replacing a Juan Castro) until either the Manager or GM gets the bright idea that he needs to consistently make room for him in the starting lineup at the expense of a young player who really needs the At-Bats- particularly during a lost season. Jeff Keppingers are part of the game, for sure. But you don't plan around them if you think you got a keeper. You rightly stash them on the bench and thank your stars that you got a bench slot cost savings for most likely a couple seasons. Then you go about the business of actually making the team better.



What he said...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

AmarilloRed
07-25-2007, 02:03 AM
from the ORG:
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1420118&postcount=29

The presence of a Jeff Keppinger doesn't make Encarnacion expendable in any way, shape, or form. We see plenty of guys like Keppinger cycle in and out of the Show every year. The guy toils in the minors until he's age-prime, shows his face, hits a little bit, demonstrates that he can at least stand at more than one position, and the announcing crew and Joe Average fan goes ga-ga over him even though all but a small handful of Jeff Keppingers ever turn out to be more than fringe utility types.

If you're really lucky, you get a Ryan Freel to hold an open slot for a higher ceiling player for a couple seasons and who can fill in when needed. That being said, the speed game of a Ryan Freel plays much much better than Keppinger's does and the presence of a Freel doesn't make a higher-ceiling player "expendable" either, especially considering that even the "good" Ryan Freels of the world have offensive games that generally ride a fine line between decent and terrible. Triple ditto for Norris-freakin'-Hopper.

Having a Jeff Keppinger isn't a problem (especially if he's replacing a Juan Castro) until either the Manager or GM gets the bright idea that he needs to consistently make room for him in the starting lineup at the expense of a young player who really needs the At-Bats- particularly during a lost season. Jeff Keppingers are part of the game, for sure. But you don't plan around them if you think you got a keeper. You rightly stash them on the bench and thank your stars that you got a bench slot cost savings for most likely a couple seasons. Then you go about the business of actually making the team better.



What he said...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

A good post. I am sure Encarcion has the potential to be a quality starting third baseman, and Keppinger may never be anything but a utility guy. However POTENTIAL never hit a baseball, and never won a starting job. If Edwin never achieves his potential, he may find himself a utility player. If Keppinger makes the most of his opportunities, he can be a starting third baseman. It all depends on how both players make the most of the playing time they both receive.