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BLEEDS
07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60563

YIKES!!:

Lopez:
BA .238
OBP:.292
HR: 4
RBI: 35
OPS: .629
SLG: .337

Kearns:
BA: .250
OBP: .326
HR: 5
RBI: 36
OPS: .691
SLG: .365


More YIKES!!:

Originally Posted by registerthis
Yep. Ended up being a crap-for-crap deal. The baseball equivalent of a tree falling in an empty forest.

The deal is still open, the Reds still own 3 of the players and the weight of the motion filed with MLB, the Nationals have invested in Kearns

# 07:$3.5M, 08:$5M, 09:$8M, 10:$10M club option ($1M buyout)


WOW, would our fans be PISSED OFF if we were paying Kearns that kind of Jack!! That's absolutely HORRENDOUS for that production.

Life could be worse!
WOW, are we lucky we found Josh Hamilton. That, and our Young guys - Votto, Bruce, Cueto/Dumatrait - have us poised to be CHEAP for a long time, and to "Gracefully" deal with Hatte/Conine, Lohse, as well as give us OPTIONS for dealing with Griffey.

We have a CHEAP lineup full of powerful guys. We can AFFORD to invest in SP and KEEP a guy like Dunn/Griffey if we want to.
Of our Starting Position players currently under contract, in 2009, nobody will make more than $4M - Freel will be at $4M and Gonzo at $5M and change, BOTH in the last year of their contracts.

in 2008: Hamilton, Phillips, EE, Votto - all START for <$500K
Hopper, Keppinger, Lopez all on your bench for <$500K
Bailey and Belisle both <$500K
Got about 6 Relief Pitchers making <$500K
Total, that's 15 guys @ 500k = $7.5M
Ross $2.5M, Valentin $1.3M, and Freel $3M round out your bench.
Weathers $2.5M (I say he's worth it, keep him)
Round it up, call it $17M

Expensive Starters:
2008
Harang $6.75M
Arroyo $3.95M
Dunn $13M
Griffey $6.0M ($6.5M Deferred)
Gonzalez $4.625M
TOTAL: $41M
GRAND TOTAL: $57M (+guys DFA'd) and ONE SP slot left.

2009:
Harang $11M
Arroyo $9.5M
Dunn $15M *(if signed to 5YR $75M deal)
Bruce* $500K
Gonalez $5.375
TOTAL: $41M
GRAND TOTAL: call it $60M with some raises and increases to Freel/Ross.
Subtract Weathers also gone, as well as Valentin has an option for 2008,and replace that with a $4M Closer.

You've STILL got lots of money to get you to $75/80M roster.

ME LIKES!!


PEACE

-BLEEDS

ChatterRed
07-19-2007, 01:53 PM
That was a bad trade......................





























........for the Nationals! Long live Jim Bowden!!!!!

Orenda
07-19-2007, 01:59 PM
You should put Majewski's, Bray, and Harris's stat lines up there as well. So Kearns is making one million more than Stanton this year....Yikes! It would be nice to have a bullpen wouldn't it? If only Krivsky could go back and unload Kearns and Lopez for servicable relief, it would still have been unpopular but it would have been better then no servicable relief.

ChatterRed
07-19-2007, 02:06 PM
Gee, while we're at, why not include the fact that Krivsky and the Reds were deceived by Leatherpants and the Nationals. And it could be worse......Krivsky, like Bowden, could have proclaimed Bray and Majewski the second coming of Trevor Hoffman and signed them to long term deals at $4, $5, or $6 million per year, like Leatherpants did with the All-World Austin Kearns.

durl
07-19-2007, 02:10 PM
My vote is that "The Trade" actually ended up being a good thing for the Reds. We didn't get the direct impact that we wanted but I'm quite content with how things turned out.

ChatterRed
07-19-2007, 02:12 PM
GABP is like Coors Field. It inflates a position player's numbers. More reason why free agents should take a look at Cincy when looking to revive their careers. Kearns and Lopez benefited from playing in GABP.

improbus
07-19-2007, 03:17 PM
GABP is like Coors Field. It inflates a position player's numbers. More reason why free agents should take a look at Cincy when looking to revive their careers. Kearns and Lopez benefited from playing in GABP.

I still haven't given up on Bray and Majewski. Neither has been healthy this year. But, if they can get healthy, they could be the "shot in the arm" that the bullpen needs.

durl
07-19-2007, 03:59 PM
I still haven't given up on Bray and Majewski. Neither has been healthy this year. But, if they can get healthy, they could be the "shot in the arm" that the bullpen needs.

I agree. Especially about Bray. He could be just what we need in the bullpen.

Maldez
07-19-2007, 05:19 PM
BLEEDS <<....WOW, are we lucky we found Josh Hamilton...>>

I'm giving the credit to Krivsky and his scouts. Over 30 other teams had the same chance to get lucky with Hamilton and Brandon Phillips, but the Reds ended up with both of 'em. That can't be luck.

REDblooded
07-19-2007, 07:51 PM
but...but....but.........walt jocketty..........

i think i found a few posters in here that still have their wits. thanks guys.

Chi-Town Red
07-19-2007, 07:58 PM
Bray still has alot of time to show what he can do...never was sold on Majic...but Bray is young....he was why the trade was made in the first place

donnelly_31
07-19-2007, 09:16 PM
I'm glad to see some other people out there are actually looking at kearns and lopez's stats this year before blindly saying it was a bad trade. Kearns and Lopez are healthy and not doing anything. At least we have hope concerning majewski and bray returning to form when healthy.

The Snow Chief
07-19-2007, 10:41 PM
I would make the deal again in a heartbeat. I think Bray will be a solid guy out of the bullpen, you may get something out of Daryl Thompson, and Brendon Harris should have been kept.

Lopez is bad. Kearns is average to below average. Just like everyone thinks their crap should sell on ebay for much more than it brings, many Reds fans thought Kearns and Lopez should have brought more. I am convinced Wk was shopping them and the return from the Nats was the best he was offered.

It was a take what you can get deal. Vis-a-vis re-signing those two, the Reds would have come out ahead even by simply non-tendering them.

AmarilloRed
07-20-2007, 01:30 AM
Kearns and Lopez are doing bad this year, but part of it is the stadium they play in. I am sure fly balls that would have been doubles or home runs in GABP are outs in Washington's cavernous stadium.You know, BLEEDS, you are changing from a nuisance poster and have been making outstanding posts on the Sun Deck lately. Before you know it you will be on ORG.:D

BLEEDS
07-20-2007, 10:26 AM
You know, BLEEDS, you are changing from a nuisance poster and have been making outstanding posts on the Sun Deck lately. Before you know it you will be on ORG.:D

I can only dream... ;)

PEACE

-BLEEDS

kaldaniels
07-20-2007, 11:20 AM
Kearns and Lopez are doing bad this year, but part of it is the stadium they play in. I am sure fly balls that would have been doubles or home runs in GABP are outs in Washington's cavernous stadium.You know, BLEEDS, you are changing from a nuisance poster and have been making outstanding posts on the Sun Deck lately. Before you know it you will be on ORG.:D

Last I checked...the NL batting leader resides in RFK. This really isn't a response to you Amarillo, but I think that everyone needs to realize you can be a good hitter at RFK. At least you concede they are having bad years.

markymark69
07-20-2007, 01:05 PM
I would make the deal again in a heartbeat. I think Bray will be a solid guy out of the bullpen, you may get something out of Daryl Thompson, and Brendon Harris should have been kept.


My only thought on Harris is where would he play? He is starting in TB because they do not have anybody else. One could argue that he could take Keppinger's place and I guess I could buy that. However, without regular playing time (which he would not have received here) his numbers would be nowhere near where they are currently.

And in a bench role who is to say he would end up being better than Keppinger? That is speculation at best.

JLB5
07-20-2007, 01:25 PM
My only thought on Harris is where would he play? He is starting in TB because they do not have anybody else. One could argue that he could take Keppinger's place and I guess I could buy that. However, without regular playing time (which he would not have received here) his numbers would be nowhere near where they are currently.

And in a bench role who is to say he would end up being better than Keppinger? That is speculation at best.

Not to mention that Harris' numbers have really dropped off the last month. He had a very big June, but nothing in his past indicates he is likely to repeat that performance on a regular basis.

AmarilloRed
07-20-2007, 01:28 PM
Kearns and Lopez hit a lot of fly balls that used to be extra base hits. I would be interested to know if the NL batting leader is a contact type who gets more line drives and groundball hits than he does fly balls.

kaldaniels
07-20-2007, 02:27 PM
Kearns and Lopez hit a lot of fly balls that used to be extra base hits. I would be interested to know if the NL batting leader is a contact type who gets more line drives and groundball hits than he does fly balls.

Austin Kearns 33&#37; Flyball
Dmitri 35%

Austin 44% Groundball
Dmitri 44% Groundball

This doesn't factor in line drives of course, but the fact is if you are hitting pop-ups rather than liners, you aren't going to be as sucessful. RFK is not a death sentence for a hitter. It takes away some HR's, but in Kearns case...5 HR is pathetic based on past stats.

The Snow Chief
07-20-2007, 05:08 PM
The OPS + stat on baseballreference controls for home park factors. With a 100 OPS + being MLB average, Kearns is in the 80s and Lopez is in the 60s.

AmarilloRed
07-21-2007, 01:00 AM
I simply tried to come up with a reasonable explanation of why Kearns and Lopez are doing so badly. I wonder is Kearns is homesick for Cincinnati? He spent a lot of years in our organization and on the Reds team. His performance may be a combination of his past injuries and being away from Cincinnati. There is such a disparity of his Cincinnati numbers and his numbers in Washington.

DTCromer
07-21-2007, 09:00 AM
At worst, WK was half-right on this trade which I know most people won't give him credit for.

ChatterRed
07-21-2007, 10:48 AM
It was all over the place that Kearns would not make adjustments and that he didn't work hard on his overall game. He had a hitch in his swing that was causing him to K alot.

AmarilloRed
07-22-2007, 01:56 AM
Dunn and Kearns were really considered really promising prospects when they first came up with the Reds. I shows us there is no such thing as a can't miss prospect. All prospects are capable of missing.:(

improbus
07-22-2007, 08:02 AM
BTW: Bray was optioned to AAA, so here's hoping he makes a full recovery.

tsj017
07-22-2007, 01:02 PM
Despite the fact that the guys we got from Washington haven't done much, I never got too worked up about that trade, simply because we didn't really give up a whole lot.

HokieRed
07-23-2007, 09:45 AM
What p--- me off is that if Krivsky had just held onto Harris, we'd have taken old Leatherpants good. Bray and Thompson may still rescue the trade.

Orenda
07-24-2007, 09:41 AM
What p--- me off is that if Krivsky had just held onto Harris, we'd have taken old Leatherpants good. Bray and Thompson may still rescue the trade.

i cant guess what you were trying to say when you said p---, maybe pleases? Sorry, I'm a smart a--.