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View Full Version : Suppose Krivsky doesn't trade anyone at the deadline?



AmarilloRed
07-20-2007, 02:46 AM
I am going to put a controversial idea out here. It is a possibility that as Mackanin wins games in July, the odds grow that very few players will be traded. When you are always losing, there is a lot of pressure to make trades and try to improve the team. The same holds in reverse: As you win games there is less pressure to make a trade because you are winning with the players you have and you don't need to make any changes. I have heard from a lot of posters lately that seem to bear this out; they seem more inclined to pick up Dunn's option because the club is winning now. We may still make a few trades before the deadline, but I now think it will only be players like Hatteberg and Lohse who might get traded. We may just have to get used to the team we have, warts and all.

steig
07-20-2007, 08:53 AM
If we don't move players this year then we will have missed out on a golden opportunity to improve the club by getting some young talent into the system. Or Wayne doesn't make a move b/c he's on the hot seat and the team is thinking about bringing somebody else in to replace him.

redrum
07-20-2007, 09:19 AM
If we don't move players this year then we will have missed out on a golden opportunity to improve the club by getting some young talent into the system. Or Wayne doesn't make a move b/c he's on the hot seat and the team is thinking about bringing somebody else in to replace him.

Hard to say. It's only a golden opportunity if someone is willing to pay your price. Getting pennies on the dollar for Dunn or any other player the Reds control at reasonable cost for next year isn't going to advance this club's fortunes. So I guess I'm on the fence. An infusion of good young talent would be great, but the money saved on Dunn and company will not go far that far on the free agent market (1 mediocre starting pitcher based on last offseason), so they have to be sure that they are getting real value in the trade.

joshnky
07-20-2007, 09:20 AM
It seems like the trade market is very depressed this year. I'm not sure why other than the fact that teams are valuing there prospects more than ever before. If this is the case and Wayne can't get a decent return for some of the big names I would rather he stand pat then make a bad trade. I do hope we trade Hatte and Lohse and that certainly seems likely to happen.

ED44
07-20-2007, 09:29 AM
If we don't make any trades by the deadline, I think it's a sign that WK is on his way out, and the Jocketty rumors have some merit.

ChatterRed
07-20-2007, 09:37 AM
I think part of it, is the wonderment of maybe this team isn't as bad as thought, and maybe, just maybe, Jerry Narron WAS THAT BAD.

Maybe the players are more loose, and maybe the Mackanin lineups are bearing more fruit.

I hate to trade Dunn for nothing. I'd just as much like to keep him if the returns aren't great. I'm fine with trading the complimentary players, but Griffey, Dunn, Phillips, Hamilton, Arroyo, and Harang are my untouchables. Dunn is only tradeable if someone overwhelms me. And I'm talking about the major league roster, not minors.

TheWalls
07-20-2007, 09:57 AM
I don't hate the idea of not moving any of the big pieces (Dunn, Griffey, Arroyo). However, several of the Reds less essential pieces (Hatte, Conine, Stanton, Freel, etc.) could be dealt for meaningful returns without materially detracting from the team. If you can deal some of these folks to vacate space for Votto, Hopper, Kepp, Macbeth, etc., I think you're better positioned for next year.

Maldez
07-20-2007, 10:37 AM
If we don't make any trades by the deadline, I think it's a sign that WK is on his way out, and the Jocketty rumors have some merit.

I don't think there's any chance at all of Krivsky losing his job in the next couple of years. Just the acquisition of Josh Hamilton and Brandon Phillips tell you how keen this guy's eye is. The Bronson Arroyo trade was another coup for the Reds.

These trades that everybody keeps harping on are just mind candy. People have this idea that we're going to trade away Juan Castro for Derrick Jeter or something.

berryluther
07-20-2007, 10:41 AM
We won't move Griffey #600 means to much to attendance figures.

I do think that if Krivs stands pat on trading Dunn it is because Bob put a leash on him so that Jocketty would have something to work with next year.

Hatte and Conine will be gone. Votto has done everything he needs to do to get a shot at an everyday position. Conine might be kept just to have a veteran RH bat off the bench.

IMO the most logical move is Arroyo and Hatte to Atlanta for Salty and a AA pitching prospect. Then move Ross for a prospet.

We can't let Dunn walk and get two picks for him. With the accumulation of talent we have right now those picks would not factor into '09. Sign him to an extension and maybe work out a deadline deal next year. Unless someone gets desperate this year I just don't see us getting any quality for him.

bleedsred
07-20-2007, 11:34 AM
I know I'm going to get slammed over and over, but I'm going to say it...I don't see David Ross as being a piece needed to be moved. The guy's BA sucks yes, but the guy has a cannon behind the plate and hits for power and does drive in runs. I def. would not trade Bronson for Salty and a pitching prospect....the last thing the Reds need to do is trade away a guy(a #2/3 starter) they have under contract the next few seasons.

Redsnake
07-20-2007, 11:46 AM
If no one gets moved the Reds will still have a chance to bring in young talent this year.
When the roster expands in Septmeber guys like Votto, Bailey, Cuerto and/or Bruce could still have a chance to prove something.

foltza
07-20-2007, 12:25 PM
I don't hate the idea of not moving any of the big pieces (Dunn, Griffey, Arroyo). However, several of the Reds less essential pieces (Hatte, Conine, Stanton, Freel, etc.) could be dealt for meaningful returns without materially detracting from the team. If you can deal some of these folks to vacate space for Votto, Hopper, Kepp, Macbeth, etc., I think you're better positioned for next year.

i agree with this, except i don't see hopper or keppinger being long-term pieces for the future, but i guess at least give them their chance

also, i don't believe for a second that krivsky is or isn't making moves because of jocketty or anyone else taking over his job. that isn't the way big league GMs work. you do your thing until you are told it's not your job anymore. obvisouly the reds front office isn't the smoothest, but no way do i believe he was told "hey wayne, don't make any trades, we're going to try and get walt jocketty in here to replace you next year. but keep on working loyally for us until then. and if we can't get him, maybe we'll let you stay"

bounty37h
07-20-2007, 01:05 PM
I wont take it either way if we do or dont make a move. If we dont, I will only hope it is because we see a bright future, but sooner then later, and the offers we got werent better then keeping them for now. If we do, I hope it is a positive move, even if losing a fav or is deemed a controversial trade, as long as it makes the team as a whoel better, I dont care.

AmarilloRed
07-20-2007, 02:24 PM
I did say I thought there would be a few trades; just not the big ones everyone was expecting. I also think the trade market is depressed and teams don't seem to want to trade their top prospects for veteran players. Unfortunately, if you don't trade prospects, trades don't happen.

fadetoblack2880
07-21-2007, 12:03 AM
No complaints from me. I would only complain if Dunn were traded. No complaints in sending Conine, Lohse, Hatteberg, and even Griffey somewhere else as long as the Reds get at least one Major League ready player.

AmarilloRed
07-21-2007, 02:02 AM
With every performance, I believe the odds are rising that the Reds trade Lohse for whatever they can get. I believe he and Conine or Hatteberg are sure locks to be traded.

redsfan1966
07-21-2007, 03:10 AM
This is a classic catch 22....play well and the urge to unload goes away...WK needs to realize this recent hot streak is most likely an aberration and continue to pursue options to unload hi-price low return "talent" (i.e. Dunner) and definitely continue to pursue a high level manager to run our ship.

AmarilloRed
07-21-2007, 03:29 PM
What makes you think Dunn is high-price low return? Do you think any other outfielder with his numbers would be as cheap as 13 million this offseason? I think 13 million is a bargain for Adam Dunn.

Chi-Town Red
07-21-2007, 11:54 PM
What makes you think Dunn is high-price low return? Do you think any other outfielder with his numbers would be as cheap as 13 million this offseason? I think 13 million is a bargain for Adam Dunn.you said it :thumbup:

tsj017
07-22-2007, 02:10 PM
I think this (no trades) is at least somewhat likely.

Remember, last offseason was the first with a new owner and new GM. And what were the big moves? Signing Thom Brennaman and opening a Pete Rose exhibit. Both generated some fan interest, but neither addressed the team on the field.

It wouldn't really surprise me if Krivsky stands pat or makes only marginal moves. At first, I was a big Krivsky supporter, but his performance (or lack thereof) is making me think he needs to go. If you can't fire a manager without weeping, maybe you need to rethink your ability to be a big-league GM.

Or is the problem really Castellini? Is it possible that his talk of not just competitive but championship baseball is nothing more than talk?

As for Griffey: I don't buy the idea that his quest for 600 will boost attendance all that much. When he's within one or two, maybe. But are people really going to think, "Hey, let's go to the game tonight and see Griffey hit #592!"????

DTCromer
07-22-2007, 03:20 PM
I don't like Adam Dunn, but if the value in return isn't there. . .. then don't trade him. It's as simple as that. I'm not expecting any big trades with this team. Unfortunately, WK is going to get criticized no matter what he does after 7/31.

HokieRed
07-23-2007, 12:48 AM
David Ross is a classic case of what you don't want to get into in evaluating players when you've got a bandbox ballpark like GABP. His OPS is .539 on the road. He's pretty good defensively, but not nearly good enough to make up for that. It's no accident Krivsky's willing to dangle Arroyo to get Saltalamacchia. He knows Ross is not a major league starting catcher on a good team.

ChatterRed
07-23-2007, 01:11 AM
Let's see.............Griffey came here under Bowden in a no-brainer trade. Dunn came up under Bowden. Kearns is gone because Krivsky had the balls to trade him. Hamilton, when healthy, is a quality young CF with one of the best arms and bats and will only get better. Chalk that one up to WK. Phillips and Gonzalez are WK products. We wouldn't have a quality #2 starter if not for WK. Hatteberg is one of the best hitters on the team, although not a longterm solution at 1B. Ross is adequate and good defensively, but we could do better........but the previous GM had the nerve to sign Larue to a high priced contract which WK had to unload. EE came through the farm system. The future 1B is being developed in our minors (like he should be) - Joey Votto.

Honestly, a healthy outfield of Dunn, Griffey and Hamilton is going to produce. Phillips and Gonzalez are good to good enough at 2B and SS. Until Votto gets his major league chance, we have to hope the farm system can atleast provide us with something. So we'll say 1B is in development. EE is still a question mark. C is a question mark. Beyond the first two starters, the starting rotation is a question mark. WK's biggest failure has been to develop a bullpen or sign one.

AmarilloRed
07-31-2007, 05:41 PM
It seems I had a Crystal Ball. Our big trade was trading Kyle Lohse for Matt Maloney. I would have thought we would have traded Conine or Hatteberg, and there might have been some other marginal trades. However, it seems Wayne is satisfied with the team and believes we will be contenders like we were in 2006, so he decided only to make trades that he thought would improve the team or our farm system. I am sure this lack of action will now bring a lot of calls for Krivsky's head, but I think Wayne should be given a couple of years to see if he can make the Reds a contender again.