PDA

View Full Version : Freel said on postgame show Mackinin is the difference!



redsfan4445
07-20-2007, 05:29 AM
Thought i would post this as Freel said on the postgame show, the team is playing better as Pete has been the difference... Tells me the players were not happy about Narron... just think if the Reds FO would have done this 4 weeks earlier?? I say the next homestand determines what the Reds do at the trading deadline.. Wouldnt it be nice they took 3 of 4 from the Brewers and 2 of 3 from the Cubs?? would it be nice to see the Reds be a buyer and not a seller? I know im going to a few of the games...Winning is fun! love to see a miracle finish :):):):beerme:

pahster
07-20-2007, 08:00 AM
I'm pretty sure the same was said of Miley and Narron. Maybe even Boone, too.

Edskin
07-20-2007, 08:23 AM
I am willing to give Pete a chance. But here's the deal...the cards are stacked against him in my book. He has do AMAZING things the rest of the way to make me want to keep him.

Right now, the Reds are benefiting from two things:

1. The immediate influx of energy that almost always accompanies a managerial change.

2. It's baseball. Even the worst teams have decent streaks. We were overdue for a good run of wins.

I am waiting for the inevitable fall back to earth, where the Reds tank again, and then maybe level out.

If Mac wins more than he loses and the Reds have a "respectable" finish to the season? Not enough for me. I'd still want to look elsewhere.

If the Reds continue this current pace and approach .500 at the end of the season-- then only a fool would simply write off Mac. At that point the sample size would be large enough to draw some conclusions.

But right now, I'm still extremely skeptical.

MrCinatit
07-20-2007, 08:53 AM
Wasn't it Freel who was so gung-ho about the team keeping Narron a couple weeks ago, or was that someone else (I also want to say it was Phillips - but I could be wrong).

I have been wondering since this started: Has this happened because Pete is a good manager; or was Narron such a horrible manager, or is this the "fired manager bounce", or a little bit of all of the above?
I kind of think it is a combination of a "fired manager's bounce", and Narron being such a bad manager. Do not get me wrong - I believe Narron WAS a good baseball guy who was best suited as a bench coach. But he was in way over his head as a manager.

Meanwhile - while it is good to see the team doing good, I have this growing fear behind this winning surge: I have a strong feeling the FO will take a look at this surge as the perfect reason to sign the reasonably successful (and cheap) Pete Mackanin.
Of course, there is always the outside chance Pete is a diamond in the rough who was simply waiting to be discovered.

flyer85
07-20-2007, 09:15 AM
this major league roster suffers from a dearth of talent, no matter who is the manager.

nate
07-20-2007, 09:24 AM
this major league roster suffers from a dearth of talent, no matter who is the manager.

i don't think it suffers from a lack of talent, I think it suffers from the wrong combination of talent.

registerthis
07-20-2007, 09:33 AM
i don't think it suffers from a lack of talent, I think it suffers from the wrong combination of talent.

I tend to agree. There's a lot of talent on this roster, but there is talent lacking in a couple of key areas that makes this team non-competitive. Namely, relief pitching and 3/5 of the starting rotation.

redsrule2500
07-20-2007, 09:45 AM
Yeah, we heard narron was good for the clubhouse two years ago this time.

It must be those long term relationships that are hard for the reds...

RichRed
07-20-2007, 09:53 AM
Eventually, that new manager smell wears off.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-20-2007, 09:53 AM
I honestly feel this team is not that far off.

They are three players away from competing. Replace three minuses with 3 plusses (2 in the bullpen and 1 in the rotation) and this team is an above .500 team with some key young pieces in place and some big prospects a year or two away.

The bench could be improved just on addition by subtraction alone. (see: Moeller, Castro).

creek14
07-20-2007, 09:58 AM
Thought i would post this as Freel said on the postgame show, the team is playing better as Pete has been the difference... Tells me the players were not happy about Narron...
Stuff like this just makes me want to puke.

Big freaking baby wawaís.

So what, you donít like the manager, big deal. Youíre a paid professional, get out there and do your job.

Gesh, I hope the next time I need surgery the Dr. likes the Chief of Staff.

Johnny Footstool
07-20-2007, 10:00 AM
Eventually, that new manager smell wears off.

Yep, then things start to smell like egg salad and feet.

NJReds
07-20-2007, 10:06 AM
this major league roster suffers from a dearth of talent, no matter who is the manager.

We're in agreement. Half of the roster is minor league fill or backup level players (Freel, Keppinger, Hopper, Conine, Cruz, all of our catchers, Belisle, Livingston, our bullpen). Except for Dunn, Phillips, Harang, Arroyo and Hamilton; most of the above average talent is on the downslope of their careers (Griffey, Hatteburg, Weathers, Gonzalez). I'm still not sure what to make of guys like EE or Lohse.

This is not a great 25 man roster by any means. And the 40-man isn't much better.

KittyDuran
07-20-2007, 10:14 AM
I'm pretty sure the same was said of Miley and Narron. Maybe even Boone, too.Still trying to find some press on Freel/Miley... Miley BTW was the person who suggested giving Freel a chance.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20050929-1118-bbn-reds-narron.html


Reds extend manager's contract through 2006

By Arnie Stapleton
ASSOCIATED PRESS

11:18 a.m. September 29, 2005

MILWAUKEE Ė Keeping the Reds from giving up after a horrible start has earned manager Jerry Narron another year in Cincinnati. The Reds extended his contract on Thursday through the 2006 season with a mutual option for 2007. Narron began the season as the Reds bench coach and was appointed interim manager when Dave Miley was fired June 21 after the team's 27-43 start.

Cincinnati was 46-42 under Narron entering Thursday's game against Milwaukee. "Really, the only reason I'm coming back is because the players played well," Narron said. "With where we were in the standings, what our record was, it would have been very easy to just pretty much give up on the team part of it and just play individually.

"One thing they have done is continue to play as a team. This is more of a credit to how they've played than anything I've done."

The Reds are finishing their fifth consecutive losing season, their longest such streak since 1945-55.

General manager Dan O'Brien credited Narron with the team's second-half improvement.

"He earned the respect of the players, and I think Jerry's been very consistent in his expectations of our club trying to play the game the right way," O'Brien said.

Narron said he was happy with a one-year deal, considering that some shares in the team are for sale. Three of the team's limited owners are trying to sell their shares, representing 51.5 percent of the Reds. Owner Carl Lindner can buy the shares and has said he plans to retain his control over the team.

"With the circumstances, I have no problem with it," Narron said. "I have confidence in myself and in the people that are here to do everything we can, if it's kicking, scratching, clawing, to win as many games as possible."

News of his extension was met by smiles in the Reds clubhouse.

"I think it's a great signing," outfielder Ryan Freel said. "He has all the respect of the players and I think he's done a heck of a job since he's been here and I think he deserves this position."

Freel said Narron's ability to communicate with the players "has been phenomenal."

"I know all of the players respect him. He's been around for a while. He knows what he's doing," Freel said. "Nothing against Miley, he did everything he could, but the communication level wasn't there and nobody know what was going on, nobody could get an answer. On the flip side, Jerry will tell you straight-up whether you like it or not and that's all a player can ask for."

Narron had a 134-162 record as Texas' manager in 2001-02. He was Boston's bench coach in 2003 and managed four years in Baltimore's minor league system.

Cincinnati said earlier this month that it would wait until after the season to decide Narron's fate. The Reds completed their final homestand last week, then headed for Milwaukee and St. Louis to conclude the season.

O'Brien said the deal was announced now so that Narron could talk to his players about next season and so that he could the club's organizational meetings in Sarasota, Fla., next week. O'Brien and other front-office officials have accompanied the team on its final trip.

Narron said he would make decisions on his coaching staff within the next week to 10 days.

flyer85
07-20-2007, 10:22 AM
I guess Freel needs to wipe that stuff off his nose.

KittyDuran
07-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Wasn't it Freel who was so gung-ho about the team keeping Narron a couple weeks ago, or was that someone else (I also want to say it was Phillips - but I could be wrong).

I have been wondering since this started: Has this happened because Pete is a good manager; or was Narron such a horrible manager, or is this the "fired manager bounce", or a little bit of all of the above?
I kind of think it is a combination of a "fired manager's bounce", and Narron being such a bad manager. Do not get me wrong - I believe Narron WAS a good baseball guy who was best suited as a bench coach. But he was in way over his head as a manager.

Meanwhile - while it is good to see the team doing good, I have this growing fear behind this winning surge: I have a strong feeling the FO will take a look at this surge as the perfect reason to sign the reasonably successful (and cheap) Pete Mackanin.
Of course, there is always the outside chance Pete is a diamond in the rough who was simply waiting to be discovered.IIRC it was Phillips who was most verbal about the firing of Narron...

BRM
07-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Wouldnt it be nice they took 3 of 4 from the Brewers and 2 of 3 from the Cubs?? would it be nice to see the Reds be a buyer and not a seller?

If that happens, no way does Wayne sell. I'm not sure he'll buy either though. I can really see the Reds basically standing pat, no matter what happens over the next 10 days.

KronoRed
07-20-2007, 10:26 AM
I'm pretty sure the same was said of Miley and Narron. Maybe even Boone, too.

When teams win everyone is communicating fine ;)

BRM
07-20-2007, 10:27 AM
When teams win everyone is communicating fine ;)

Team chemistry always seems to be very good during winning streaks as well.

MartyFan
07-20-2007, 10:29 AM
I honestly feel this team is not that far off.

They are three players away from competing. Replace three minuses with 3 plusses (2 in the bullpen and 1 in the rotation) and this team is an above .500 team with some key young pieces in place and some big prospects a year or two away.

The bench could be improved just on addition by subtraction alone. (see: Moeller, Castro).

I agree with you...this team is not as bad as it has played.

As for the "NEW MANAGER"? If he finishes with anything over a .500 record in his time as manager, then I say he deserves a shot at being THE GUY next year...this team was REALLY DOWN, no hope in sight when Narron got the ax...Mack has seemingly made them believe in themselves...that includes the utility guys, the pitchers and the BP...or maybe he is just letting the coaches of those areas coach?

You know when Jack McKeon came in as the coach people were not all that keen on him because he was old...when Sparky came in people were livid because the guy had never done anything...those two managers were our most successful managers and NEITHER can be written off simply because of the talent they had to work with...remember with talent often comes egos and also don't forget that there were other teams out there with a lot of talent too.

All I'm saying, is give Pete a chance.

KronoRed
07-20-2007, 10:30 AM
If that happens, no way does Wayne sell. I'm not sure he'll buy either though. I can really see the Reds basically standing pat, no matter what happens over the next 10 days.

Same here, but I think it'll be Bob saying so, he doesn't sound like he wants anything to do with rebuilding, sad because this team is a long way away from a world series contender

flyer85
07-20-2007, 10:31 AM
All I'm saying, is give Pete a chance.
My contention is that the problems are much bigger than who the manager is. Is Pete an improvement? likely.
Are they a playoff contender? Not with the makeup of the roster no matter the manager.

BRM
07-20-2007, 10:40 AM
Same here, but I think it'll be Bob saying so, he doesn't sound like he wants anything to do with rebuilding, sad because this team is a long way away from a world series contender

I have a hunch that the FO thinks this team is a bullpen arm or two away from contedning in '08. I could be wrong obviously but it's a just a feeling I have. I don't see any major roster changes on the horizon.

MrCinatit
07-20-2007, 10:42 AM
IIRC it was Phillips who was most verbal about the firing of Narron...

I am very sure you are right, after some thinking.

MartyFan
07-20-2007, 10:43 AM
My contention is that the problems are much bigger than who the manager is. Is Pete an improvement? likely.
Are they a playoff contender? Not with the makeup of the roster no matter the manager.

We'll see if Pete is a better manager than Narron over the next several games.

Remember that 1999 team wasn't a playoff team either...but they came really close.

Chip R
07-20-2007, 10:45 AM
I think the Reds may have unwittingly stumbled on to something. Hire a manager, wait a few weeks, fire the manager, hire an interim manager and watch the team improve. When the team starts playing bad again, repeat the above steps. ;)

Falls City Beer
07-20-2007, 10:47 AM
I think the Reds may have unwittingly stumbled on to something. Hire a manager, wait a few weeks, fire the manager, hire an interim manager and watch the team improve. When the team starts playing bad again, repeat the above steps. ;)

Chip,

Wayne looks like Johnny Sack in your avatar. :)

BRM
07-20-2007, 10:47 AM
We'll see if Pete is a better manager than Narron over the next several games.

Remember that 1999 team wasn't a playoff team either...but they came really close.

I don't remember the 1999 team ever being this far back in the standings. Were they ever more than 10 games out at any point that season?

KronoRed
07-20-2007, 10:50 AM
I don't remember the 1999 team ever being this far back in the standings. Were they ever more than 10 games out at any point that season?

Nope, the farthest back was 7 games and that was on May 14th, also they were never more then 5 games under .500 after May 2nd

WVRedsFan
07-20-2007, 10:54 AM
Stuff like this just makes me want to puke.

Big freaking baby wawaís.

So what, you donít like the manager, big deal. Youíre a paid professional, get out there and do your job.

Gesh, I hope the next time I need surgery the Dr. likes the Chief of Staff.

Word.

Taking any quote from Ryan Freel and taking it was the final analysis of anything is a stretch. Same for most players. They are playing well and making less mistakes. The result is wins. It's not rocket science and certainly the poor on-field play had little to do with who the manager was. The change in management had a lot more to do with lineups and player mix--finding the right combination. Here, I see a difference, but so did most of this board.

And like Edskin says, and I believe, we're not going to win at a .714 clip for long. The team is too flawed for that. Wonder what Freel will say then? I bet Jerry was gritting his teeth when or if he heard that. Freel was his boy.

Chip R
07-20-2007, 10:55 AM
Chip,

Wayne looks like Johnny Sack in your avatar. :)


So I guess we better not make any cracks about his wife then? ;)

mth123
07-20-2007, 10:55 AM
I think the Reds may have unwittingly stumbled on to something. Hire a manager, wait a few weeks, fire the manager, hire an interim manager and watch the team improve. When the team starts playing bad again, repeat the above steps. ;)

This was pretty much how the Yankees were run in the old days.

Hire Martin. Fire Martin. Hire Lemon. Fire Lemon. Rehire Martin. Fire Martin. Hire Michael. Fire Michael. Rehire Lemon. Fire Lemon. Rehire Martin. Fire Martin .....

BRM
07-20-2007, 10:58 AM
Nope, the farthest back was 7 games and that was on May 14th, also they were never more then 5 games under .500 after May 2nd

Thanks Krono. I was thinking that team was pretty much "in the race" most of the year.

MississippiRed
07-20-2007, 11:00 AM
This was pretty much how the Yankees were run in the old days.

Hire Martin. Fire Martin. Hire Lemon. Fire Lemon. Rehire Martin. Fire Martin. Hire Michael. Fire Michael. Rehire Lemon. Fire Lemon. Rehire Martin. Fire Martin .....

The key to that, though, was hire Martin. He could get teams to play above their heads, probably because they were all mad at the same guy, him. I wish we could find a Martin-type guy when we have good enough pitching to have a chance.

37red
07-20-2007, 11:01 AM
I hope the team is truly energized and not just in a surge. Getting rid of Narron was a good thing if for no other reason it took the cloud out of the dug out. He is an intelligent ball player but just couldn't make the right decisions when they were needed. Lots of the games were one smart move by the manager to have been won. Whether the team can hold their new found inspiration to put out and win what they can is yet to be seen, but another string of wins would sure turn on the lights.

Freel is a hard charging ball player and there isn't any sense to rip your manager during a team slump. If he had done that everyone would be ripping him a new one for stepping up. If only the manager was screwing up then the whole team would have approval from the upper ups, but it was a general collapse.

SunDeck
07-20-2007, 11:26 AM
I think Mack's disadvantage is that he's going to fight uphill against the perceptions that the Reds must bring in LaRussa, Johnson, or some other big name manager. Even if he has a great year the Reds will do a search.

The guy seems to be pushing all the right buttons and I'd be elated if the club finishes out of the cellar and halfway up in the standings. .500 would be enormous, if you ask me. If he does that- he's a hero and he deserves to stay with the franchise in some important capacity; I just think it would be difficult for him to win the manager's job. Maybe that's not right, but he just doesn't have the benefit of being a household name.

Of course, there is the possibility that he will create some special chemistry in the clubhouse and if so it is likely that the players will make it known. But as has been said here- that's happened before with previous, and subsequently unsuccessful managers.

BRM
07-20-2007, 11:37 AM
From John Fay:



Let's see: The Reds are 10-4 under Pete Mackanin. That's .714 winning clip. They've got 66 games. They play .714 ball the rest of way, they'll go 47-19 over the last 66 games and finish 88-74.

That's looks pretty much impossible. But the Reds going 40-26 the rest of way is suddenly imaginable. That gets the Reds in at .500, and Mackanin keeps the job.

flyer85
07-20-2007, 11:42 AM
But the Reds going 40-26 the rest of way is suddenly imaginable. That gets the Reds in at .500, and Mackanin keeps the job.... and all will be well with the team, no fixing needed.

BRM
07-20-2007, 11:43 AM
... and all will be well with the team, no fixing needed.

That's the worrisome part. I want to see the team play well but I'd rather see Wayne make some moves to position this team as a real contender in 2008 and/or 2009.

flyer85
07-20-2007, 11:44 AM
That's the worrisome part. I want to see the team play well but I'd rather see Wayne make some moves to position this team as a real contender in 2008 and/or 2009.they make think that right now, you may the trading deadline pass and guys like Hatty, Conine, Lohse, Stanton, etc still on the team.

red-in-la
07-20-2007, 11:52 AM
I am willing to give Pete a chance. But here's the deal...the cards are stacked against him in my book. He has do AMAZING things the rest of the way to make me want to keep him.

Right now, the Reds are benefiting from two things:

1. The immediate influx of energy that almost always accompanies a managerial change.

2. It's baseball. Even the worst teams have decent streaks. We were overdue for a good run of wins.

I am waiting for the inevitable fall back to earth, where the Reds tank again, and then maybe level out.

If Mac wins more than he loses and the Reds have a "respectable" finish to the season? Not enough for me. I'd still want to look elsewhere.

If the Reds continue this current pace and approach .500 at the end of the season-- then only a fool would simply write off Mac. At that point the sample size would be large enough to draw some conclusions.

But right now, I'm still extremely skeptical.

I do not recall any immediately influx of energy when Narron or Miley took over....in fact, as I recall, it took a week for one of them to get his first Reds win (think it was Miley).

I like the look of Mackanin. I see a small bit of Sparky in his intensity around the players. I agree that no decision should be made until October.

I was impressed with Atlanta. The Reds fell back to earth as far as I was concerned in NY. And after losing 3 of 4 and coming into Hotlanta to play a Braves team that was playing better recently (according to their announcers) it might have been pretty easy to just mail in 3 losses.....but they played hard and the last game of the series was a HUGE difference in this team IMHO.

Then to come back last night was great. When Phillips struck out with the bases loaded I had to go to dinner. I didn't bother to rush back to the TV because I was SURE Dunn wouldn't pick him up (and apparently he did not)......but later on, to see that Freel of all people hit a clutch 3 run bomb....well, there is something there. :thumbup:

princeton
07-20-2007, 12:05 PM
I have always thought that a good manager is very important

and with each bad manager that I deal with, the more that I think that

I can't say if Mackanin is good or if Narron was bad. But these posters that state that a good manager is worth only a win or two? I don't buy it. That's based on moves, and Whitey Herzog said that game management is only one-third of what makes a great manager. I always defer to the Rat.

BRM
07-20-2007, 12:05 PM
Did anyone see or hear Freel's comments last night? C. Trent has them on his blog.



Freel: "I feel like I can compete and be an unbelievalbe player at one time and then I feel like Iíve never played baseball in my entire life. I have to be more consistent. When you have a leadoff hitter with a .294 on-base percentage, thereís no excuse for that. Thatís horrible. Itís a big key, getting on base for these guys, the superstars on this team, Griffey and Dunn, thereís a lot you can do. But Iíve been doing a lot of right turns on first base and heading to the dugout. Iím professional, Iíll be accountable."

Freel: "I just absolutely suck this year. Iím (censored) horrible. Iím a professional, the numbers donít lie. Iím flat-out horrible. I flat-out suck. Itís frustrating. Go ahead, print it, itís not anything somebody else isnít saying."

Johnny Footstool
07-20-2007, 12:09 PM
Did anyone see or hear Freel's comments last night? C. Trent has them on his blog.

I like that attitude.

flyer85
07-20-2007, 12:10 PM
I like that attitude.attitude is nice, performance is better.

registerthis
07-20-2007, 12:15 PM
attitude is nice, performance is better.

Well, they're performing well too.

We'll see how long it lasts.

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2007, 12:59 PM
Buster Olney wrote an Insider article about Pete.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2941874&name=olney_buster&CMP=ILC-INHEAD&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d2941874%26name%3dolne y_buster%26CMP%3dILC-INHEAD

Can someone with an Insider login post it? I'd be curious to read it.