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View Full Version : Reds Demanding Saltalamacchia for Arroyo; Braves Won't Budge



reds44
07-21-2007, 01:30 AM
The Braves have been trying to swing a deal for Reds right-hander Bronson Arroyo. But the Reds' asking price so far has been too steep -- they've asked that top hitting prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia be included in the deal, and the Braves don't want to deal Saltalamacchia, who may be their regular first baseman for the rest of the season. ... If the Reds are going to deal a pitcher, they'd rather it be Kyle Lohse, since they have Arroyo signed through 2010 and they believe that, in the NL Central, nobody's more than a year away from contending.


http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/118491497789260.xml&coll=1

Degenerate39
07-21-2007, 01:39 AM
You stand your ground Wayne!

WMR
07-21-2007, 01:40 AM
Screw 'em.

Replacing Arroyo won't be cheap either (if possible at all).

Braves are great at trading non-prospects (in actuality) for quality players.

reds44
07-21-2007, 01:43 AM
You stand your ground Wayne!
Agrred. Arroyo isn't a guy we really need to deal. If you don't get exactly what you want, then don't do it.

Would you do Arroyo and Hatteberg for Salty?

Degenerate39
07-21-2007, 01:46 AM
Agrred. Arroyo isn't a guy we really need to deal. If you don't get exactly what you want, then don't do it.

Would you do Arroyo and Hatteberg for Salty?

I like Salty but I think Arroyo is needed more than a 4th catcher.

reds44
07-21-2007, 01:49 AM
I like Salty but I think Arroyo is needed more than a 4th catcher.
No, no, no.

Salty is actually a good catcher. Unlike Ross, Javy, and Moeller.

AmarilloRed
07-21-2007, 01:50 AM
I wouldn't trade Arroyo by himself for Saltemacchia.

BucSappy
07-21-2007, 08:23 AM
Am I wrong in thinking that we would still be getting the bad end of this deal.

Arroyo is a good #2/excellent #3 pitcher to have...doesn't that trump having a very good catcher?

If I was WK I would demand a very young minor league prospect in the deal along with Salty.

However, I think if we were able to deal Dunn and Lohse for Salty and Villarreal that would be a pretty fair deal imo.

Chi-Town Red
07-21-2007, 08:57 AM
stud catchers are even more hard to come by then pitchers

Triples
07-21-2007, 10:58 AM
This is true, but you can win with marginal catching but you can't win with marginal pitching. I would agree with those that are saying they wouldn't do a 1-1 trade.


stud catchers are even more hard to come by then pitchers

Slyder
07-21-2007, 11:10 AM
You trade Bats for pitching and pitching for even more pitching. We've been there and tried to outslug everyone... it didn't work then, and it won't work now.

We spent how many years trying to find competant pitching now weve got 2 in the rotation and yorue going to trade one off for a catcher. I don't care if Salty turns out to be IRod, Piazza, and Bench slammed into 1 guy this trade wouldn't improve this team where we need it. Pitching.

kaldaniels
07-21-2007, 11:34 AM
You trade Bats for pitching and pitching for even more pitching. We've been there and tried to outslug everyone... it didn't work then, and it won't work now.

We spent how many years trying to find competant pitching now weve got 2 in the rotation and yorue going to trade one off for a catcher. I don't care if Salty turns out to be IRod, Piazza, and Bench slammed into 1 guy this trade wouldn't improve this team where we need it. Pitching.

Well, I for one would trade Arroyo for a Hall of Fame catcher. Thats just me though.

ChatterRed
07-21-2007, 11:45 AM
There's no proven commodity here in Salty. Arroyo has shown that he is a competent #2 or #3 pitcher in a rotation.

I say no.

durl
07-21-2007, 11:56 AM
Stud pitching wins championships, not stud catching. (Nothing against stud catchers.)

I'd much rather have a pitcher like Arroyo than a great catcher.

REDblooded
07-21-2007, 01:07 PM
I'm speaking out of my rump here, because I really don't have a clue of how Salty calls a game, but catching can have a big impact in the success of your pitching. I'd take Salty over Arroyo though. Yeah, we've tried to outslug everybody, but it was with power bats. Salty has pop, but he's also a competent hitter, and can do it from both sides of the plate. That's something that is missing from this line-up, and I think it would provide the Reds with more flexibility.

Blue
07-21-2007, 01:21 PM
Improvement is improvement, though this would be more of a lateral move IF Saltalamacchia was a productive hitter. The Reds would have to find a pitcher to replace Arroyo in order to improve. I wouldn't deal Arroyo for just one prospect unless that prospect was Justin Upton.

I'd prefer a trade to the Mariners for Jeff Clement and Brandon Morrow.

roby
07-21-2007, 01:35 PM
Just keep Arroyo!!! Pitching is too hard to come by. The Reds need to FILL 2 more pitching spots with quality...not unload a good, young, relatively cheap pitcher! :bang:

BLEEDS
07-21-2007, 01:58 PM
I would do this trade - if we planned on picking up Carlos Zambrano in the off-season.

Then, we would have improved our Pitching too.

I'm not sure where Salty fits in here - unless we plan on playing Votto in Left Field - where allegedly he is WORSE than Dunn. SO, we have LESS Power and WORSE defense, and we just traded away a #2 SP who makes 3.95/9.5/11 M the next three years.

Is Jim Bowden still running the Reds?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Degenerate39
07-21-2007, 02:02 PM
I would do this trade - if we planned on picking up Carlos Zambrano in the off-season.

Then, we would have improved our Pitching too.

I'm not sure where Salty fits in here - unless we plan on playing Votto in Left Field - where allegedly he is WORSE than Dunn. SO, we have LESS Power and WORSE defense, and we just traded away a #2 SP who makes 3.95/9.5/11 M the next three years.

Is Jim Bowden still running the Reds?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Why would Salty make Votto move to left field?

REDblooded
07-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Why would Salty make Votto move to left field?

PEACE

ftfy

spartcock77
07-21-2007, 03:04 PM
I cant fault the braves for not doing that deal

tbball10
07-21-2007, 03:06 PM
i would do the deal straight up. salty is a 22-year old, switch-hitting, stud catcher. those dont come along too often. i love bronson, but i think salty would be a good return for him, although it would be nice to get another player.

2008
c- salty
1b- votto
2b- phillips
ss- gonzo
3b- ede
lf- dunn/ hopper
cf- hamilton
rf- griffey/ bruce

starting 5: harang, bailey, free agent, belisle, livingston

AmarilloRed
07-21-2007, 03:22 PM
I would not make the deal-not with our history of not developing starting pitching.We have our own stud catcher in Mesoraco. I am willing to wait for him, and hold on to Arroyo.We have some starting pitching prospects in the minors, but until they prove themselves I would not make this deal.

AtomicDumpling
07-21-2007, 03:34 PM
I think it all depends on how the Reds feel about Arroyo's long-term health. If we are concerned that Narron's chronic overwork of Arroyo has damaged his arm then we should trade him for Salty. Do you want to pay Arroyo $11 million per year while he recovers from arm surgery? Arroyo threw more pitches than any player in baseball last year. Wow. That is not a good sign -- for a skinny pitcher especially.

If the Reds are confident Arroyo is fully healthy then we shouldn't trade him for an unproven commodity like Salty. Salty is a top prospect, but he is still a prospect. He hasn't accomplished anything yet. However, I think Salty probably has more trade value than Arroyo. He is a young, cheap, catcher (tough position to find a quality player) who has lots of potential. Arroyo has a huge contract, which is a liability as far as trade value is concerned. The Braves might be willing to overpay a bit and make the deal if they believe it will put them into the playoffs this season. So if the Reds make the deal they can always turn around and deal Salty to someone else in exchange for a player that might be better than Arroyo.

AmarilloRed
07-21-2007, 03:44 PM
I suppose if the Braves are not willing to trade Saltemacchia , we are all just blowing smoke. The Reds won't make the deal without Salty.:)

Chi-Town Red
07-21-2007, 03:50 PM
would you trade Arroyo for Johnny Bench? just asking

Degenerate39
07-21-2007, 03:54 PM
would you trade Arroyo for Johnny Bench? just asking

Of course but Salty is no Johnny Bench.

Fil3232
07-21-2007, 03:56 PM
The Reds can't afford to trade Arroyo, certainly not for a position player.

gedred69
07-21-2007, 04:00 PM
Dealing with the Braves is a tough proposition. They come out way on top 95% of the time. They got Reitsma for a couple good years, for two Bozos that never amounted to anything, most recently. I really think what the Reds need is some of Atlanta's scouts! Seldom do they miss evaluating players. If this trade is to happen, Atlanta must throw in a solid prospect as well. Ross can't hit, but he is a helluva catcher. Hold the hard line WK!

gedred69
07-21-2007, 04:17 PM
Viewing another thread prompted this additional comment. In my attendance this year, the Reds are 7-2. I think they should make sure I'm there every game! (Diamond seats preferred, Bob).

Chi-Town Red
07-21-2007, 06:59 PM
Of course but Salty is no Johnny Bench. not yet

BearcatShane
07-21-2007, 07:20 PM
How about Arroyo, Hatteberg, and Weathers for Salty, Jo-Jo Reyes, and Joey Devine?

Degenerate39
07-21-2007, 10:48 PM
not yet

There will never be another Johnny Bench or anything close to one. Take that to the bank.

REDblooded
07-21-2007, 10:57 PM
There will never be another Johnny Bench or anything close to one. Take that to the bank.


Yeah........I can see somebody being the catcher he was, but to blend that skill with being a world class jerk.....I just don't see it happening. A true one of a kind.

kaldaniels
07-21-2007, 11:08 PM
Yeah........I can see somebody being the catcher he was, but to blend that skill with being a world class jerk.....I just don't see it happening. A true one of a kind.

Not trying to hijack, but you bring up something that I've heard off-hand, but have no details on...is Johnny Bench a jerk in person???

Chi-Town Red
07-21-2007, 11:10 PM
yea i heard Bench was a jerk in person...never met him myself..anyone else?

REDblooded
07-21-2007, 11:18 PM
I've never met him in person........but my best friends dad was a police officer who worked at the ballpark when Bench was around. He dealt with Bench face to face, and had a few confrontations with him over Bench not feeling that his vehicle was being given enough attention (he was in charge of the players parking area). I've heard other second hand stories, but this is the one, knowing my friend, that I would actually put faith in.

Degenerate39
07-21-2007, 11:42 PM
From all the interviews and what not I've seen him in he is a jerk.

Chi-Town Red
07-21-2007, 11:49 PM
heck of an athlete..too bad about his character...he was my favorite player as a kid

REDblooded
07-22-2007, 01:18 AM
ah...remembered another one. Greensburg Indiana had a really nice little league complex open up a few years back (around 2000). Bench was supposed to throw out the first pitch, and stood them up at the last minute.

Mutaman
07-22-2007, 01:29 AM
I've never met him in person........but my best friends dad was a police officer who worked at the ballpark when Bench was around. He dealt with Bench face to face, and had a few confrontations with him over Bench not feeling that his vehicle was being given enough attention (he was in charge of the players parking area). I've heard other second hand stories, but this is the one, knowing my friend, that I would actually put faith in.


My friend's sister-in-law's- brother's wife met him once and said he's a good guy.

BLEEDS
07-22-2007, 01:48 AM
Why would Salty make Votto move to left field?

According to reports, the Braves were ready to make him their everyday first baseman.

My point is we've got about $3M+ invested in two catchers already - Ross and Valentin. I don't think we're looking for another catcher, outside of the one we just DRAFTED IN THE FIRST ROUND THIS YEAR to play any time soon.

SO, if we wanted Salty, I assumed they play him every day - at 1B. But that's "allegedly" Votto's spot next year. SO, since Votto's been playing a little LF right now - which many view as an option to let Dunn walk this year - I put this string together.

BUT, bottom line, for a team whose BIGGEST achilles is their pitching it makes NO SENSE to trade their #2 starter, for a Luxury position.

I don't see it happening, unless there is some other pre-meditated Master Plan(s) nobody's heard of, including some moves in store for the off-season.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

reds44
07-22-2007, 01:51 AM
According to reports, the Braves were ready to make him their everyday first baseman.

My point is we've got about $3M+ invested in two catchers already - Ross and Valentin. I don't think we're looking for another catcher, outside of the one we just DRAFTED IN THE FIRST ROUND THIS YEAR to play any time soon.

SO, if we wanted Salty, I assumed they play him every day - at 1B. But that's "allegedly" Votto's spot next year. SO, since Votto's been playing a little LF right now - which many view as an option to let Dunn walk this year - I put this string together.

BUT, bottom line, for a team whose BIGGEST achilles is their pitching it makes NO SENSE to trade their #2 starter, for a Luxury position.

I don't see it happening, unless there is some other pre-meditated Master Plan(s) nobody's heard of, including some moves in store for the off-season.

PEACE

-BLEEDS
Mesoraco is an 18 year old straight out of high school. He's at least 4 years away. I don't see how catcher is a luxury position. Not many teams have a younng catcher that can hit.

AmarilloRed
07-22-2007, 01:59 AM
The Braves have repeatedly said they won't trade Saltemacchia , and the Reds won't make a trade without Salty. Seems like this is a non-trade at this point. On the other hand, it is still possible the Braves might take Lohse for a prospect not named Saltemacchia. They still need a starting pitcher.

jnwohio
07-22-2007, 02:54 AM
I would do this trade - if we planned on picking up Carlos Zambrano in the off-season.

Then, we would have improved our Pitching too.

I'm not sure where Salty fits in here - unless we plan on playing Votto in Left Field - where allegedly he is WORSE than Dunn. SO, we have LESS Power and WORSE defense, and we just traded away a #2 SP who makes 3.95/9.5/11 M the next three years.

Is Jim Bowden still running the Reds?

PEACE

-BLEEDS


"Salty" came thru the Braves farm system as a catcher. I'd think that is where the Reds would be looking to use him.

I agree that they should not trade Arroyo unless they can get a king's ransom for him. He is signed thru '10 with a club option for an additonal year. The extention was signed under the new CBA; so he does not have the right to force a renegociation or free agency if the Reds trade him. Therefore they should refuse to let him go for anything less than an offer too good to refuse.

Several things can be be going on when a person shows up in trade talks. The club having the player could be shopping him or the other club(s) could have called up and asked what it would take to get him. My guess is Arroyo is in this 2nd category, although I hear a number of the talking and writing heads saying they think the Reds should be shopping him.

From the Reds' point of view Arroyo's satus may have changed significantly in the last 3 weeks. For his part, he seems to be pitching very good again. Then there is the situation with Bailey. His less than stellar debut and this following injury should be raising question marks about about where he fits in for next year; and making the Reds be more cautious moving Arroyo.

TC81190
07-22-2007, 03:30 AM
How about Arroyo, Hatteberg, and Weathers for Salty, Jo-Jo Reyes, and Joey Devine?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

jhiller21
07-22-2007, 04:03 AM
You don't make this trade unless you get a good young arm included. Arroyo (in this league) is more valuable than any catcher south of Johnny Bench.

REDblooded
07-22-2007, 01:58 PM
for what it's worth.....we're comparing Salty to the greatest catcher to ever play the game.......

It's not like Arroyo is Cy Young, Satchel Paige, or Johan Santana himself.

BLEEDS
07-22-2007, 02:35 PM
"Salty" came thru the Braves farm system as a catcher. I'd think that is where the Reds would be looking to use him.



Is that your logic? Who cares what he played in the minors, the Bigs are a totally different deal. The Braves had been using him at C - only vs. Left handed pitchers. He's recently been playing 1B, a lot.

We have Votto slotted for 1B, and as I noted, we've got over $3M invested in TWO catchers right now, and just drafted one in the first round. We're not going to keep 3 catchers on our roster, so it makes more sense to play him at 1B and put Votto in LF.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Degenerate39
07-22-2007, 03:14 PM
We're not going to keep 3 catchers on our roster, so it makes more sense to play him at 1B and put Votto in LF.

You must not know the Reds orginization then. They seem to love having 3 catchers.

And if Dunn isn't traded and they do some how get Salty where do you propose Votto plays then?

LetsGoReds
07-22-2007, 03:36 PM
Arroyo should not be traded for anything but more pitching....The Reds have hitting and they have proven it doesn't equal to winning....this club needs pitching so why trade it for catching that doesn't make any sense

Chi-Town Red
07-22-2007, 03:42 PM
who knows what the Reds are thinking...maybe we acquire Salty and package him for some other players...you never know...or maybe it would be part of a 3 way trade

AmarilloRed
07-22-2007, 03:57 PM
We badly need a catcher. I can see us getting rid of Ross or Valentin if we received Saltemacchia in a trade. Votto has not been doing well in LF at Louisville, so I don't see him playing in left field unless Dunn is traded. However, all of this is immaterial if the Braves don't trade Salty.

BLEEDS
07-22-2007, 04:18 PM
And if Dunn isn't traded and they do some how get Salty where do you propose Votto plays then?

I don't. That's why I'm against this trade. Among other reasons, it really doesn't fit into our plans for fielding 8 players at their "normal" positions.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-22-2007, 04:23 PM
We badly need a catcher. I can see us getting rid of Ross or Valentin if we received Saltemacchia in a trade. Votto has not been doing well in LF at Louisville, so I don't see him playing in left field unless Dunn is traded. However, all of this is immaterial if the Braves don't trade Salty.

"Rid of" ? How? Who's going to trade for Valentin or Ross?

Ross is making like $2.5M in 2008. His 2009 option is $3.5M with a 375K buy-out. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Valentin can be bought out for $75K, otherwise he's scheduled to make $1.3M.

Would seem VERY IGNORANT to trade your #2 SP for a #2 Catcher - unless you plan to play him at 1B and move your All-World 1B prospect to LF and let your LF option walk.

Makes NO SENSE to me to make this trade - unless, like I said, this is part of a Master Plan, with multiple moves and trades beyond this, that only the FO has any concept of.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

kaldaniels
07-22-2007, 04:30 PM
"Rid of" ? How? Who's going to trade for Valentin or Ross?

Ross is making like $2.5M in 2008. His 2009 option is $3.5M with a 375K buy-out. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Valentin can be bought out for $75K, otherwise he's scheduled to make $1.3M.

Would seem VERY IGNORANT to trade your #2 SP for a #2 Catcher - unless you plan to play him at 1B and move your All-World 1B prospect to LF and let your LF option walk.

Makes NO SENSE to me to make this trade - unless, like I said, this is part of a Master Plan, with multiple moves and trades beyond this, that only the FO has any concept of.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS, sorry to say, but you are mistaken with Ross. If a sufficeient improvement can be made...he is expendable, a la Jason LaRue. It would cost a bit (even some $$ to the other team), but considering the rhealse :) of rheal eariler this year , getting rid of Ross would be an option if the Reds were able to pick up a better catcher. They are willing to eat some $$ if necessary.

My point: Ross does not have the catcher's job locked for for 2008.

AmarilloRed
07-22-2007, 04:40 PM
Let me get this straight. I do not want to trade Arroyo for Saltemacchia. However, if we do make that trade I want him to be the starting catcher on the Cincinnati Reds. From all reports he is a very talented player. The Braves need a first baseman, so they would play Salty at first base. The Reds could release either Ross or Valentin and not miss either of them. At this point, Ross would be lucky to stay in the majors next year. He should consider himself fortunate if he got a job as a back up catcher.

kaldaniels
07-22-2007, 04:42 PM
Let me get this straight. I do not want to trade Arroyo for Saltemacchia. However, if we do make that trade I want him to be the starting catcher on the Cincinnati Reds. From all reports he is a very talented player. The Braves need a first baseman, so they would play Salty at first base. The Reds could release either Ross or Valentin and not miss either of them. At this point, Ross would be lucky to stay in the majors next year. He should consider himself fortunate if he got a job as a back up catcher.

Perfectly said...if anyone out there thinks the Reds are not going to try to improve the catcher position for 2008 (i.e. stand pat with a sub-Mendoza hitter), they are mistaken.

Carolina Red
07-22-2007, 05:23 PM
Arroyo is a good pitcher who we have the rights to for a few years. I think he is more valuable to the Reds right now than a great catcher/ first baseman. The Reds also have the leverage of being the team that has the player the other team wants which in my book means we should be able to get a little more than market value in a deal.

Mutaman
07-22-2007, 05:37 PM
We badly need a catcher. .

We badly need a lot of things.

Chi-Town Red
07-22-2007, 06:33 PM
you don't need a # 2 pitcher when you give up 10 runs a game..

AmarilloRed
07-23-2007, 01:56 AM
you don't need a # 2 pitcher when you give up 10 runs a game..

You always need a good starting pitcher. It is not Arroyo's fault the bullpen loses games for him. I would build around both Harang and Arroyo. We have the rights to them both for about 2-3 years.

Degenerate39
07-23-2007, 02:05 AM
You always need a good starting pitcher. It is not Arroyo's fault the bullpen loses games for him. I would build around both Harang and Arroyo. We have the rights to them both for about 2-3 years.

I agree with that I can't wait till when Homer works out all his problems and Cueto is up in the bigs.

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Cueto
Livingsten?

Not a bad rotation at all. If they do trade Arroyo though it could end up like this:

Harang
Bailey
Cueto
Livingsten?
Dumatrait?

Personally I like Arroyo more than I do Dumatrait. If everything works out alright with Homer and Cueto then either way you're going to have a stud rotation. The better your rotation the better your bullpen will be (because they won't pitch as much ;)).

BLEEDS
07-23-2007, 02:44 AM
We aren't releasing Ross when he is due $6M over the next two years.

MAYBE if we can get someone to take him in a trade, but that is about as likely to happen as us trading Lohse for Johan Santana straight up.

Ross will be the starting catcher next year, MAYBE we buy him out for $375K in 2009, but not until then.

Anybody else who wants to argue differently is smoking some cheap immitation...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-23-2007, 02:46 AM
BLEEDS, sorry to say, but you are mistaken with Ross. If a sufficeient improvement can be made...he is expendable, a la Jason LaRue. It would cost a bit (even some $$ to the other team), but considering the rhealse :) of rheal eariler this year , getting rid of Ross would be an option if the Reds were able to pick up a better catcher. They are willing to eat some $$ if necessary.

My point: Ross does not have the catcher's job locked for for 2008.

They won't eat $6M - and IFF they did, it would KILL our Cap for helping ANYWHERE ELSE on our roster, outside of catcher.

I said it once, I'll say it a MILLION times, catcher is a LUXURY position. One we just signed our #1 pick for this year. The likelihood of us trading our NUBER TWO STARTING PITCHER for a catcher is about the same as us signing Zambrano in the off-season.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Degenerate39
07-23-2007, 02:54 AM
We aren't releasing Ross when he is due $6M over the next two years.

MAYBE if we can get someone to take him in a trade, but that is about as likely to happen as us trading Lohse for Johan Santana straight up.

Ross will be the starting catcher next year, MAYBE we buy him out for $375K in 2009, but not until then.

Anybody else who wants to argue differently is smoking some cheap immitation...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I'm sure there are some teams who would trade for Ross. Teams like the Cubs who need a good catcher like Ross who can get some balls over the fence. They wouldn't have to release him.

kaldaniels
07-23-2007, 10:43 AM
They won't eat $6M - and IFF they did, it would KILL our Cap for helping ANYWHERE ELSE on our roster, outside of catcher.

I said it once, I'll say it a MILLION times, catcher is a LUXURY position. One we just signed our #1 pick for this year. The likelihood of us trading our NUBER TWO STARTING PITCHER for a catcher is about the same as us signing Zambrano in the off-season.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

All I'm saying BLEEDS is that if you think Ross is a lead pipe lock for starting catcher next year, thats incorrect. I didn't see one person on here suggest they release Ross (yet thats what you use to argue your point). The Reds would dump some $$$ if it proves to give them an upgrade. He does not have the starting job sewn up for next year. If you had been posting last year before Ross starting hitting, you'd have said LaRue has the 2007 job locked up due to his 2007 salary but as you have seen, deals can be made to get rid of underperforming players. Many teams out there would take a flyer on Ross, given they get some cash for the privilege. No one said we'd dump 6 Million, so please don't insinuate that I or others are saying that will happen. And anyway, I'm not suggesting the Reds do this trade, but I'm just responding to your case that Ross is the 2008 catcher.

bounty37h
07-23-2007, 11:37 AM
Agrred. Arroyo isn't a guy we really need to deal. If you don't get exactly what you want, then don't do it.

Would you do Arroyo and Hatteberg for Salty?

Nope, wouldnt even entertain that offer wihta response other then come back to me when you have a serious offer for us. Salty may be good, but good starting pitching is much harder to find.

bounty37h
07-23-2007, 11:40 AM
would you trade Arroyo for Johnny Bench? just asking

Nope, he retired in 83, and prob doesnt move around that well these days. He may be ok out of our pen though.

bounty37h
07-23-2007, 11:42 AM
Not trying to hijack, but you bring up something that I've heard off-hand, but have no details on...is Johnny Bench a jerk in person???

I hate to say anything bad about him, as he is my lifelong sports hero, but for my vote, he has been a jerk everytime I have met him.

REDblooded
07-23-2007, 01:55 PM
Bleeds, did it ever occur to you that the Braves don't use Saltalamacchia at catcher often because they have a young all-star caliber catcher already in McCann who they also gave an extension to in the offseason? I just can't believe somebody would spend that much time debating something with such obvious minimal knowledge on the subject.

AmarilloRed
07-23-2007, 02:47 PM
All I'm saying BLEEDS is that if you think Ross is a lead pipe lock for starting catcher next year, thats incorrect. I didn't see one person on here suggest they release Ross (yet thats what you use to argue your point). The Reds would dump some $$$ if it proves to give them an upgrade. He does not have the starting job sewn up for next year. If you had been posting last year before Ross starting hitting, you'd have said LaRue has the 2007 job locked up due to his 2007 salary but as you have seen, deals can be made to get rid of underperforming players. Many teams out there would take a flyer on Ross, given they get some cash for the privilege. No one said we'd dump 6 Million, so please don't insinuate that I or others are saying that will happen. And anyway, I'm not suggesting the Reds do this trade, but I'm just responding to your case that Ross is the 2008 catcher.

Actually you're wrong about that. I did suggest the Reds get rid of Ross, and then I said they should release him if they get Salty. I would prefer to trade him, but I had forgotten about his salary. I suppose it would be more economic to get rid of Valentin, even though I prefer him as a catching option.

BLEEDS
07-23-2007, 03:16 PM
All I'm saying BLEEDS is that if you think Ross is a lead pipe lock for starting catcher next year, thats incorrect. I didn't see one person on here suggest they release Ross (yet thats what you use to argue your point). The Reds would dump some $$$ if it proves to give them an upgrade. He does not have the starting job sewn up for next year. If you had been posting last year before Ross starting hitting, you'd have said LaRue has the 2007 job locked up due to his 2007 salary but as you have seen, deals can be made to get rid of underperforming players. Many teams out there would take a flyer on Ross, given they get some cash for the privilege. No one said we'd dump 6 Million, so please don't insinuate that I or others are saying that will happen. And anyway, I'm not suggesting the Reds do this trade, but I'm just responding to your case that Ross is the 2008 catcher.

Well, we're already paying big $$ to KC to NOT have Jason LaRue. We aren't going to keep getting rid of catchers until we are paying $10M for 6 guys - 5 of them NOT to be on our team.

Ross is having a down year after his contract year. They aren't going to cut him OR trade him and take on the majority of his salary after one year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

kaldaniels
07-23-2007, 03:25 PM
Well, we're already paying big $$ to KC to NOT have Jason LaRue. We aren't going to keep getting rid of catchers until we are paying $10M for 6 guys - 5 of them NOT to be on our team.

Ross is having a down year after his contract year. They aren't going to cut him OR trade him and take on the majority of his salary after one year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

So it is your contention that there is no way any catcher other than Ross is the Reds catcher in 2008...if it is I just can't debate that as you refuse to concede anything. If otherwise let me know.

BLEEDS
07-23-2007, 04:08 PM
So it is your contention that there is no way any catcher other than Ross is the Reds catcher in 2008...if it is I just can't debate that as you refuse to concede anything. If otherwise let me know.

Anything COULD happen. I put it in the Very Highly Unlikely category. I'd say there's more chance that C. Zambrano pitches for us than anyone not named ROSS is our everyday catcher in 2008.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Vada Pinson Fan
07-24-2007, 02:12 AM
Keep Arroyo. You don't trade pitching on the Reds if those pitchers are named Harang, Arroyo, Livingston, Burton, Weathers. Furthermore you don't trade Bailey, Cueto, Dumatrait or any other live-armed pitcher in the Reds farm system. Why? Because you cannot replace those pitchers with anything better. A smart GM trades his team's hitting for better hitting; his team's hitting for proven/successful pitching (w/o injury problems-see Majewski, Bray) in the Majors and Minors, his team's mediocre pitchers and hitters for the best he can get at the time those mediocre players are playing their best.

On another note- Thank You Former Reds Interim GM Brad Kuhlman for bringing Aaron Harang to Cincinnati for Jose Guillen. I would love to see what Brad Kuhlman could do with the current Reds team if he were given the chance.

Just my 2 cents worth.

AmarilloRed
07-24-2007, 12:54 PM
Let's try and remember one important fact of this proposed trade. Bronson Arroyo is 29 and there is a considerable chance he might begin to get less effective as he gets older. Saltemacchia is much younger and at the start of his career. Salty could possibly be our everyday catcher for a long time, but we only have Arroyo signed for three years. It's just something to think about.

klw
07-24-2007, 02:04 PM
Why is it that Saltemacchia is always the target and not McCann? He is signed at reasonable money, talented. Is he just seen as completely untouchable or is it that Salty is seen as higher upside?

JLB5
07-24-2007, 02:34 PM
Why is it that Saltemacchia is always the target and not McCann? He is signed at reasonable money, talented. Is he just seen as completely untouchable or is it that Salty is seen as higher upside?

The Braves are very pleased with McCann and I would guess he is untouchable.

AmarilloRed
07-25-2007, 02:16 AM
The Braves are very pleased with McCann and I would guess he is untouchable.

From what the Braves are saying, they consider both of them untouchable. Let's see what happens as the deadline approaches, however.