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Mario-Rijo
07-21-2007, 10:22 PM
This from Marty's favorite Red Sox fan, but not really.


Don't expect race-altering moves
posted: Friday, July 20, 2007

The three powers of the National League East are so empowered, so tightly wound, that one Doyle Alexander deal could win the division, not to mention deals involving a Joe Blanton or Roy Oswalt or Jon Garland. But a 1998 Randy Johnson is not going to show up in any storefront, and -- barring a purse as high as the Carlos Guillen/Freddy Garcia swag the Mariners extracted from Houston for the two-month rights to Johnson -- neither is Blanton, Oswalt, Garland nor any other significant starter. The starting pitchers whom contenders are scouting are Matt Morris, Jason Jennings, Kyle Lohse, Scott Elarton, Steve Traschel and Jose Contreras, and it isn't pretty; scouts from a half-dozen teams were in to see Jennings in Washington Wednesday. He threw 83-86 mph, allowed five runs in five innings and is 1-6, 4.76 for the season ... with another year on the contract. So while the Mets, Braves, Phillies, Red Sox, Dodgers and Padres would like a starter, nothing race-changing is likely to occur. And while the Astros convene next week to decide whether or not to weigh their options on Brad Lidge, Chad Qualls and Dan Wheeler, while the Rangers continue to market Eric Gagne and Akinori Otsuka, while the Pirates shop disgruntled Salomon Torres and the Royals take bids on Octavio Dotel, what general managers like Omar Minaya, Pat Gillick, Dave Dombrowski and Mark Shapiro won't do is make a deal similar to Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen. "I don't know of anyone who will trade a potential impact everyday player for a relief pitcher, especially one who isn't a dominant closer," says Minaya. Another contending GM says, "I don't blame Dayton Moore for trying to rebuild, but he wants a major league-ready positional player for Dotel." Hey, what outsiders don't understand is ownership pressure. Drayton McLane has to sign off on rebuilding before Astros GM Tim Purpura can even begin to market Lidge, who could mean the World Series to Detroit, Cleveland, Boston or the Mets. Those kinds of pressures are on Moore, Wayne Krivsky in Cincinnati, Jon Daniels in Texas and Andrew Friedman in Tampa Bay, pressures no one else knows who hasn't sat in their chairs in buildings operated by their respective owners. As odd as it may seem, Brian Cashman in many ways is the most relaxed of the GM bunch. On Friday morning, the Yankees are six games behind the Indians in the loss column for the wild card and seven games behind the Red Sox in the AL East (in New England, that's Anxt Legion), and Cashman on Wednesday took a leisurely drive to Trenton, N.J., to watch Philip Hughes. Cashman is looking to add a first baseman if it isn't Shea Hillenbrand, find someone to take Kyle Farnsworth, maybe move a Scott Proctor for depth (the NY Post has been on Wilson Betemit), and await the reconstruction of the Yankee pitching staff. "Unfortunately for the rest of us," says one AL executive, "the most important addition before the trading deadline will be Hughes." Cashman watched Hughes dominate on Wednesday, and will give him a couple of starts at Scranton to build up his pitch count and arm strength. And as Hughes fits in with Chien-Ming Wang, Roger Clemens, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte, he is not the only key piece that may fit in place for the final six to eight weeks of the season. There is a possibility that the Yankees will bring fellow Trentonian Joba Chamberlain up to audition for the Joel Zumaya role, and as he gets healthy, Ross Ohlendorf may soon be ready to fit in the middle of the bullpen as well. Before suffering a back injury, Ohlendorf -- who pitched with Chris Young for Scott Bradley at Princeton -- looked as if he could be a first-rate middle reliever after coming over from Arizona in the Johnson deal. But Chamberlain has now become the talk of the game. The Yanks' second pick in the 2006 draft out of Nebraska has drawn comparisons to a cross between Zumaya and Bobby Jenks as a reliever, and Justin Verlander as a starter. He's 8-1 with 108 strikeouts in 74 2/3 innings between Tampa and Trenton. "He's 95-99 for seven innings as a starter," says one scout. "He has Verlander stuff, but if it fell apart, he'd still be Jonathan Broxton." Oh. It may be that the minor leagues, not the majors, are where the pitchers who impact races come from. Boston has already changed its rotation with Kason Gabbard and the bullpen with Manny Delcarmen, and may go to Clay Buchholz soon as another bullpen alternative once Curt Schilling gets back into the rotation. Buchholz's biggest question at this point is the command of his fastball, but he has big-time swing-and-miss pitches with his curveball and changeup, and that stuff may play very successfully in the bullpen as he prepares for the 2008 rotation. Just look at the National League East, where there are three very good position teams with general managers with long trade résumés who have been searching for starting pitching for six weeks. This is where those starters sat Friday morning: TEAM W-L ERA QS Mets 39-35 3.98 56 Braves 34-36 4.42 49 Phillies 35-35 5.13 48 Minaya will not even discuss trading Lastings Milledge unless he is guaranteed some proven starter. Instead, he's waiting on the return of Pedro Martinez. The Braves will deal kids, but not Jarrod Saltalamacchia or Yunel Escobar, to find someone to fill in at the end of the rotation; John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Chuck James and Buddy Carlyle are 31-19, but the other starters are an ugly 4-17, 6.41. The Phillies have tried a number of alternatives, even throwing Aaron Rowand's name around with Michael Bourn lurking, but they have yet to find any reasonable alternative, and they're hoping the bullpen returns of Tom Gordon and Brett Myers restore order. The problem is that none of those NL East teams appear to have minor league help on the horizons. And where the Yankees now can look within, the price for the Mets, Braves and Phillies might exceed reality.

Joseph
07-21-2007, 10:28 PM
I don't think anyone on the planet will be shocked to see Lohse moved, for next to nothing.

Mario-Rijo
07-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Another snippet regarding Jr.

http://http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=1012187


The Reds. Sure, Ken Griffey Jr. would look nice in that No. 5 hole, but he is also signed for next year ($12.5 million) and has had lots of injury problems. Still, Cincinnati is always looking to move money and might have some interest in the cost-controlled Coco Crisp [stats], as well as prospects.

The Reds also have bullpen help to move in David Weathers, but can’t the Sox do better?

jojo
07-21-2007, 10:37 PM
My favorite rumor is Harang for Wlad Balentien, Jeff Clement and Carlos Triunfel.

alloverjr
07-21-2007, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't expect much from the Reds. With a few exceptions like Harang and Phillips, there isn't much on the Reds that other teams would want or at least give up much for. Sure, Weathers may be dealt as could Dunn, Griffey, Lohse or Hatteburg, but I don't see a lot of quality coming back in return. Krivisky, if he gets the chance, is going to make his career during the coming off season.

dougdirt
07-21-2007, 11:46 PM
My favorite rumor is Harang for Wlad Balentien, Jeff Clement and Carlos Triunfel.

That better be a rumor you started or someone not in the media started or I might go hang myself.

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2007, 01:49 AM
How about Ryan Freel to Boston for Justin Masterson 22 yr old AA RH GB machine. The guy averages 75% GB's, his Major League Comp is likely Derek Lowe.

Just something I just came up with, he would make for an excellent addition to that team IMO.

Team Clark
07-22-2007, 04:41 AM
How about Ryan Freel to Boston for Justin Masterson 22 yr old AA RH GB machine. The guy averages 75% GB's, his Major League Comp is likely Derek Lowe.

Just something I just came up with, he would make for an excellent addition to that team IMO.

I could live with that. If Krivsky could pull that off I would give all of his naked pictures back.

MartyFan
07-22-2007, 05:37 AM
Actually with the market being what it is for RP, the deals done this year may make "THE TRADE" look not so far fetched...it already doesn't too me...but that is :deadhorse

GAC
07-22-2007, 09:52 AM
Those kinds of pressures are on...Wayne Krivsky in Cincinnati

Maybe so; but I think the pressure may be more on those teams (GMs) that are looking for that player(s) to acquire in the second half to "put them over the top."

They have a trading deadline to meet too.

Here's where the "rubber meets the road" Wayne, and tests your salt as a GM - capitalize on that if you can. But sometimes no trade is better then simply making a trade.

edabbs44
07-22-2007, 10:54 AM
Actually with the market being what it is for RP, the deals done this year may make "THE TRADE" look not so far fetched...it already doesn't too me...but that is :deadhorse

The "market" for RP has never been what Wayne believes it was. That's the part that has always killed me.

KronoRed
07-22-2007, 11:40 AM
Here's where the "rubber meets the road" Wayne, and tests your salt as a GM - capitalize on that if you can. But sometimes no trade is better then simply making a trade.

I won't really blame Wayne if he doesn't end up moving anyone, I think Bob has given orders to win or else.

Now if Wayne deals tradable parts off for bunk, then he's to blame ;)

Blitz Dorsey
07-22-2007, 01:32 PM
As soon as Lohse begins to have some trade value, he immediately pitches his way out of it. Actually, I am still hopeful the Reds will get something decent in return for him at the last minute (all it takes is one!) but I am becoming less optimistic by the minute.

What a difference a year makes. Last year at this time the Reds were dealing starting pitching prospects like Germano for over-the-hill relivers like Cormier (who did have a sub-2.00 ERA at the time, but his career stats indicated that was an abberation). This year, we can't get any takers for a decent arm like Lohse who could be a No. 5 starter for a team in the race.

Patrick Bateman
07-22-2007, 01:42 PM
This year, we can't get any takers for a decent arm like Lohse who could be a No. 5 starter for a team in the race.


The trade deadline is about 10 days away. I wouldn't have expected any movement untill then anyway. The fact he hasn't be traded yet is pretty meaningless.

redsrule2500
07-22-2007, 02:16 PM
A lot of quality won't come back because they think Kriv will bite early.

He needs to HOLD OUT as long as possible! :)

blumj
07-22-2007, 02:19 PM
I could live with that. If Krivsky could pull that off I would give all of his naked pictures back.
Yeah, as a Sox fan, I would like to beat that trade idea to death with my shoe. It's nice to see Masterson make the "big time" of a Redszone trade proposal, though.

Reds Nd2
07-22-2007, 05:47 PM
From The Mill at BP.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6485

The Reds have a couple pitchers they would deal, and would listen to offers for Bronson Arroyo, but Wayne Krivsky's prices have been more Neiman Marcus than Wal-Mart.

Several teams mention that the Cubs seem to be hanging around the periphery of most talks, trying to figure out ways to make the deals they want without taking on any money. One possibility that I heard was moving Jacque Jones and a prospect for Jeff Conine.

BRM
07-23-2007, 11:17 AM
Angels are once again pursuing the type of heavy hitter that has eluded them on the trade market.

"This is different than a few years ago when we got (Alex) Ochoa from Milwaukee (in 2002)," Stoneman said. "In that case we were looking for a bench guy, an outfielder. We're not looking for that right now. What we're looking for is somebody to be an everyday guy and a guy to help us."

Reggie Willits' recent struggles likely means the Angels are in the market for a designated hitter/outfield type who could swing for the fences. So who fits that profile?

The Cincinnati Reds' Adam Dunn is the standout player in that category. The Reds were rumored recently to be ready to ship Dunn to Milwaukee for outfielder Tony Gwynn Jr., reliever Matt Wise and an infield prospect, but that talk was shot down.

One problem with acquiring Dunn, who has 26 home runs and 64 RBIs, is that a trade would make him eligible for free agency after this season. The Angels have continually said they have little interest in renting acquisitions.

Chip R
07-23-2007, 11:45 AM
As soon as Lohse begins to have some trade value, he immediately pitches his way out of it. Actually, I am still hopeful the Reds will get something decent in return for him at the last minute (all it takes is one!) but I am becoming less optimistic by the minute.


But that's been Kyle Lohse's MO for years. I don't think any GM is going to fall in love with him and offer the Reds a really good player or two because he had a nice outing his last time out.

bucksfan2
07-23-2007, 11:49 AM
But that's been Kyle Lohse's MO for years. I don't think any GM is going to fall in love with him and offer the Reds a really good player or two because he had a nice outing his last time out.

Jeff Weaver I would say is similar to Lohse. He is having an awful year this year and had an awful first half of the year last year. He got hot during a stretch and was one of the main reasons that St. Louis won the world series. If you catch the few weeks that Lohse is on he has the stuff to almost carry the team for a few weeks.

jojo
07-23-2007, 11:55 AM
Jeff Weaver I would say is similar to Lohse. He is having an awful year this year and had an awful first half of the year last year. He got hot during a stretch and was one of the main reasons that St. Louis won the world series. If you catch the few weeks that Lohse is on he has the stuff to almost carry the team for a few weeks.

Actually Jeff Weaver has been lights out in the two months since coming off of the DL.

That point aside, Lohse has went 200 inning once in his career while Weaver has done so 5 times which really is a big part of the reason that Weaver keeps getting flyers.

Johnny Footstool
07-23-2007, 12:09 PM
One possibility that I heard was moving Jacque Jones and a prospect for Jeff Conine.

I'm cool with that, as long as Krivsky quickly passes Jones to Florida for a minor league pitcher with a decent ceiling.

BRM
07-23-2007, 12:10 PM
I'm cool with that, as long as Krivsky quickly passes Jones to Florida for a minor league pitcher with a decent ceiling.

You don't want Jacque Jones as Dunn's replacement in LF?

Johnny Footstool
07-23-2007, 12:13 PM
You don't want Jacque Jones as Dunn's replacement in LF?

:laugh:

I don't even want Jacque Jones as Conine's replacement on the bench.

Reds Nd2
07-23-2007, 04:23 PM
I'm cool with that, as long as Krivsky quickly passes Jones to Florida for a minor league pitcher with a decent ceiling.
I wonder if the Reds could pry Sammy Baez away from the Cubs in that deal? Then as you said, flip Jones for a pitcher. Somebody pinch me.

The question is, why would the Cubs want or need Conine?

Johnny Footstool
07-23-2007, 04:24 PM
The question is, why would the Cubs want or need Conine?

They're the Cubs. Who cares? If they're really offering Jones and a prospect, take the deal.

Reds Nd2
07-23-2007, 04:49 PM
They're the Cubs. Who cares? If they're really offering Jones and a prospect, take the deal.
I just don't think there's much to the rumor, but yea' I'd do it in a heartbeat. Before they had the chance to change their minds.

PuffyPig
07-23-2007, 09:08 PM
I wonder if the Reds could pry Sammy Baez away from the Cubs in that deal? Then as you said, flip Jones for a pitcher. Somebody pinch me.




OIf the Cubs could flip Jones for a pitcher, they would do so.

He has negative trade value. If we get him, we won't be able to move him without paying a large part of his contract next season.

Rojo
07-23-2007, 09:20 PM
I wonder how easily you could grab Otsuka.

Blitz Dorsey
07-23-2007, 10:43 PM
The trade deadline is about 10 days away. I wouldn't have expected any movement untill then anyway. The fact he hasn't be traded yet is pretty meaningless.

In the last few years, more and more deals have been struck earlier in July.