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Red in Atl
07-24-2007, 12:46 PM
I know conventional wisdom on the site usually is positive for Matt. But IMHO if this guy loses tonight, I don't ever want to see him start a game for Cincy again. Look at these number:

Last 10 Games (Season Game Log) Season to Date
Date Opponent Score Dec IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA
Jul 19 @ FLA W 7-5 - 4.2 9 5 4 2 2 5 5 6 0 114.0 5.13
Jul 14 @ NYM L 1-2 - 7.0 9 1 1 0 2 6 5 6 0 109.1 5.02
Jul 4 SFO L 5-9 L 4.0 6 5 5 1 0 0 5 6 0 102.1 5.28
Jun 28 @ PHI L 7-8 - 5.0 8 6 6 2 1 6 5 5 0 98.1 5.03
Jun 20 @ OAK L 3-5 - 6.0 4 2 1 1 4 1 5 5 0 93.1 4.72
Jun 15 TEX L 6-7 L 5.0 9 7 7 2 1 5 5 5 0 87.1 4.95
Jun 9 CLE L 6-8 - 6.0 5 3 3 2 3 5 5 4 0 82.1 4.48
Jun 3 @ COL L 9-10 - 6.2 10 5 5 1 1 2 5 4 0 76.1 4.48
May 29 @ HOU W 2-1 W 7.2 4 1 1 0 0 8 5 4 0 69.2 4.26
May 24 WAS L 3-4 L 7.0 10 4 4 1 1 3 4 4 0 62.0 4.65
Total 114.0 137 70 65 16 26 78

He's had two good starts since May. Why in the world would he still get the call. There has got to be a kid in AAA that could accomplish stats as good as these.

And when has he ever had much success? He's been hyped since the day the Braves traded him. I think there should be a simple rule regarding trades with the Braves. If they don't want a pitcher, neither do we.

Say what you want about Livingston, but he's got his head in the game. He doesn't look like much, but I watched him keep the Braves off balance and wondering the entire game. It was actually the worst game I've seen the Braves play in 14 years of living in Atlanta. You have to give the kid some credit for that.

AmarilloRed
07-24-2007, 12:59 PM
I believe Matt will be competing for the fifth spot the rest of the year. He could have competition from both Livingston and Dumatrait.

JLB5
07-24-2007, 01:21 PM
Belisle needs to learn how to stay away from the big inning. He's got good enough stuff to make it. Remember, he has never had this kind of workload in a single season and there's bound to be growing pains. I think the biggest upside to him right now is that he could be a very good reliever if the starting gig doesn't work out.

Red in Atl
07-24-2007, 02:43 PM
And just to be clear, I'm not an Anti-Belisle guy. I just want him to step it up. Could any young pitcher have a better opportunity than pitching with the Reds? I mean we're desperate for someone to stand-up and claim starter 3-5 and any spot in the bullpen.

I think it's that horrible mug shot he had where he's grinning like Steve Martin in Parenthood when Martin was Cowboy Gil making fun of Cowboy Dan.

Muggerd
07-24-2007, 04:54 PM
Id rather him in the bullpen myself. How this teams bullpen has been he would be a huge improvement.

Brian
07-24-2007, 05:15 PM
I think when Bailey comes back, Belilse is done as a starter. I really want to see Homer get in another handful of starts this year.

757690
07-24-2007, 05:27 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing him in the 8th inning as the set up guy with the possibility of him working his way into the closer role. he has the stuff, let's see if he has the mind set.

mroby85
07-24-2007, 05:30 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing him in the 8th inning as the set up guy with the possibility of him working his way into the closer role. he has the stuff, let's see if he has the mind set.

i think he would be better suited for long relief mop up duties.

JLB5
07-24-2007, 05:34 PM
I think when Bailey comes back, Belilse is done as a starter. I really want to see Homer get in another handful of starts this year.

Depends if they deal Lohse. I don't think they are going to be in a hurry to rush Bailey back either.

scounts22
07-24-2007, 08:45 PM
I'd rather have Belisle in the starting rotation than Loshe. Just my opinion.

HokieRed
07-24-2007, 09:20 PM
Next year I hope neither Lohse nor Belisle is in the rotation. I hope Lohse is somewhere else and Belisle is where he can really help the team, as a bullpen guy along the lines of Scott Sullivan soaking up a lot of innings one or two at a time. He can be far more valuable there than as a marginal fifth starter. I hope we can get EZ up for a couple of starts and Dumatrait too so as to move toward sorting out this picture, but Belisle's role seems to me in the bullpen.

Chi-Town Red
07-24-2007, 09:30 PM
I think we all have seen enough of him as a starter

captainmorgan07
07-24-2007, 09:34 PM
send him to the pen i've seen enough he's had his chance and hasn't madethe most of it. he was semi sucessful in the pen and i'd like to see him in it again.

Chi-Town Red
07-24-2007, 09:39 PM
Lets see what he can do in a set up role and take it from there

robmadden1
07-24-2007, 09:43 PM
Belisle is no starter he belongs in the pen. I loved it when he was in the pen.

jimbo
07-24-2007, 10:09 PM
Belisle is no starter he belongs in the pen. I loved it when he was in the pen.

His numbers in the pen haven't been much better. His career WHIP of 1.47 and BAA of .295 says it all. I'd be more for not having him on my roster altogether.

REDblooded
07-24-2007, 10:40 PM
yeah, i'm pretty much tired of watching Belisle and Lohse pitch.....at this point, i'd rather see dumatrait and/or cueto.

Red in Atl
07-25-2007, 12:47 AM
I think Marty said it best tonight..."He's had 20 starts this year, and he just doesn't get any better."

To the pen at best...sorry Matt, but you had your chance.

AmarilloRed
07-25-2007, 01:52 AM
Let's see what Dumatrait can do. I believe he has been pitching well in AAA lately.

eastkyred
07-25-2007, 09:17 AM
I think Belisle was improving in the pen over the last few years. He can help out there, and that is where we need it the most. I would also like to see EZ take his spot in the rotation. He has been really good for stretches with CIN, and he is still only 24 years old. He's been pitching really well in LOU.

Muggerd
07-25-2007, 03:51 PM
Matt in the bullpen is a much better option than every other arm back there. Same with Lohse.

AmarilloRed
07-27-2007, 03:10 AM
I think Belisle was improving in the pen over the last few years. He can help out there, and that is where we need it the most. I would also like to see EZ take his spot in the rotation. He has been really good for stretches with CIN, and he is still only 24 years old. He's been pitching really well in LOU.

EZ was really good for the team last year, but he needs to build up his arm strength in Louisville this year. It was really damaged at the end of last year.Hopefully, he will make the team in spring training.

Vada Pinson Fan
07-28-2007, 03:59 PM
How could no less an expert opinion than that of Greg Maddux be so wrong on Belisle? Maddux was quoted as saying about Matt Belisle- "He gets it." When the two were together in Atlanta. Is Belisle the kind of pitcher that stumbles for a few years then the proverbial light goes off in his brain? At this point Belisle is taking up space in the Reds rotation but something tells me to wait on this guy. I don't have that feeling about Saarloos, Lohse (at times a very good pitcher but just too inconsistent) and relievers Coffey, Santos and former outfielder Jon Coutlangus are taking up valuable roster space as well. Don't even get me started on Mike Stanton. I wish he would've retired at the end of last year.

AmarilloRed
08-25-2007, 09:26 PM
Belisle has been impressive tonight so far . 6IP,5 hits,1 run, 2 walks, and 9 strikeouts. His pitch count is up to 97 though.

He was a bit wild in the fourth with a walk, and a hit batsman, and his pitch count is up to 76. I would not expect him to go more than 5 innings tonight.
He is up to 9o pitches, and I doubt we will see him in the sixth. The Florida hitters helped him tonight by swinging at balls out of the strike zone a lot.

Belisle just gave up a solo hr with 2 outs in the 6th. He retired the next batter, and he is at 97 pitches, and I would not expect to see him again. I have been wrong before, though

kaldaniels
08-25-2007, 09:28 PM
I'm said it in the past few weeks...Belisle flunked his test as a starter this year...however he is a smart guy, and he knows he is pitching for his life every start now...maybe that will help him turn the tide.

AmarilloRed
08-25-2007, 09:30 PM
He may have flunked his first run as a starter-he might be ready the second time though!

jmac
08-25-2007, 09:38 PM
He may have flunked his first run as a starter-he might be ready the second time though!
Alot of people (self included) wanted to see what Dumatrait could do instead of belisle. We saw :eek:
Now, we are hoping Belisle gets it going again.

SMcGavin
08-25-2007, 10:06 PM
I'm not sure it even mattered how Belisle pitched tonight - who else are we gonna start instead of him? With Livingston on the DL doesn't the 3-4-5 have to be Belisle-EZ-Dumatrait? I am in the pro-Belisle camp and I don't mind seeing EZ get a few starts, but I really would rather not see Dumatrait up here ever again.

Edit: I forgot about Saarloos, who I would much rather see than Dumatrait. I suppose Santos or Gosling are options too.

Muggerd
08-25-2007, 11:12 PM
Very strong outing for Belisle tonight

AmarilloRed
08-26-2007, 01:06 AM
His final line was 7 IP, 8 hits, 4 runs, all earned, 2 walks, 9 strikeouts, and 2 hr given up. He was kept in there too long, but I believed Mackanin was trying to rest the bullpen tonight after it had logged too many innings the previous nights.

Prf15
08-26-2007, 01:12 AM
I'm not sure it even mattered how Belisle pitched tonight - who else are we gonna start instead of him? With Livingston on the DL doesn't the 3-4-5 have to be Belisle-EZ-Dumatrait? I am in the pro-Belisle camp and I don't mind seeing EZ get a few starts, but I really would rather not see Dumatrait up here ever again.

Edit: I forgot about Saarloos, who I would much rather see than Dumatrait. I suppose Santos or Gosling are options too.

Don't be surprised if maybe Maloney or Cueto make a start by the end of the year. Cueto is less likely but we are making a run here and need to try new stuff rather than Dumatrait, Ramirez and Belisle.

AmarilloRed
08-26-2007, 01:17 AM
We will not see Cueto this year. Maloney, maybe. Cueto will be at AA until their play-offs are over, and he should start at Louisville next year. I would expect we will see Cueto if all goes well shortly after the All-Star Break next year. I would think we would see Bailey sooner than Cueto.