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JLB5
07-24-2007, 01:59 PM
If you were WK, what would be on your list as the trade deadline approaches.

1-10. Pitching, pitching, and more pitching. Starting pitching always tops the list for me. You can't have enough and you can stick any "extra" into the bullpen.

11. Prototypical leadoff hitter. I'd love to see someone out of the Ichiro, Hanley Ramirez, Cory Hart, Chone Figgins mode. High OBP, great wheels, great defense. CF would be an ideal spot for this player (especially if you move Dunn). Sandwich this guy between Hamilton and Griffey/Bruce and the OF is set for the next 5 years.

12. Stud C prospect. Preferrably someone who is at most a year away. I'm afraid of what the aking price is for a kid like Salty, but this organization is void of any great prospects for the next several years.

13. A true closer. I'm of the ilk that you don't pay for saves. Groom someone from your minors, convert a starter, whatever. I'd much rather they identify someone who currentlly holds a setup job and a setupman contract. I'd much rather they get someone like Joakim Soria (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7964) than Joe Nathan. Although Burton is showing signs of having closer potential and they don't get any cheaper than a Rule 5 pick up.

14. And I'm sure this is on Wayne's list, any "5 tool" player that you can grab. If he can find another Brandon Phillips or Josh Hamilton, they can find a place to play him.

15. Last but not least, a true SS prospect. Not just a glove, but a bat and a glove. Gonzalez does not look to be a long term solution and I'm all for adding depth there.

Degenerate39
07-24-2007, 02:02 PM
Decent prospects for Hatte, Conine, Weathers, Stanton, and Lohse.

And an opening at first base for Votto

AmarilloRed
07-25-2007, 02:39 AM
How about a left field prospect to replace Dunn if he is traded. Hopper and Freel won't get it done.

eastkyred
07-25-2007, 09:27 AM
Agree with most of your list JLB5. I'm not sure about how I would handle the closer spot. I've always been with you, don't pay for saves, but the reds have been trying this for the last few years and it has been a disaster. I do agree with going out and signing a top notch setup man and making him your closer. I don't want to spend $12 mil per year on a closer, but I think we need to spend a little more than these $2mil gap filler contracts we have been giving to 40 year old has-beens.

I would also add to my wishlist-trading Dunn. I'll be glad to see him go. He's going to be a great player someday for some softball team. Probably one of the greatest softball players of all-time.

durl
07-25-2007, 10:10 AM
1. Agreed. Pitching is the big need here. Middle relief first (although Bray will help when he gets back), starter second, closer third. I put closer last because I believe Weathers and Guardado can handle it for another couple of years.

11. Good choice. With Griffey and Phillips hitting so well right now it would be great to have someone with a high OBP and speed getting on ahead of them.

12. Stud catchers aren't high on my list. If the guy can call a good game, knock the ball down, and throw runners out, that's all I care about. He can hit .250 and I'd be content.

13. We'll definitely need a closer in the next couple of years. I don't need a 99 MPH kind of guy...just one that gets batters out.

UK Reds Fan
07-25-2007, 10:39 AM
It has to be pitching. With Belisle showing after 20 starts he is not a major league starting pitcher...we know have 2 more spots to fill in the rotation assuming Bailey will be a starter next year and Lohse will not.

We can try the Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Dumtrait and Livingston...I think that isn't a good idea. But we need at least one more arm and if we can make a move for a potential starter in '08..we should do so.

11BarryLarkin11
07-25-2007, 10:54 AM
Here's my shopping list/trade strategy:

1) Adam Dunn & David Weathers to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp, Brett Tomko, +$2M.

Rumor has it the Dodgers are interested in bullpen help (Dotel), so I'd throw Weathers into the mix. Also, I'd take Tomko off their hands, as I think he makes an intriguing relief pitcher. The Dodgers would love to be rid of him, but I'd really like to see what he could do as a fulltime reliever. Kemp would step right in and replace Dunn in the lineup.

2) Arroyo + Hatteberg + J.Valentin to the Braves for J. Saltalamacchia + Prospect

The Braves need pitching and a 1b, this gives them both. Salty would step right in and be our starting catcher.

3) Trade Edwin Encarnacion + Travis Wood to the Blue Jays for AJ Burnett.

The Blue Jays GM JP Riccardi just lit AJ up in the press and the emergence of their good young pitching may make him expendable.

That would leave us with the following:

c) Salty
1b) Votto
2b) Phillips
3b) Keppinger/Free Agent
ss) A-Gon
lf) Griffey
cf) Hamilton
rf) Kemp

Starters
1) Harang
2) Burnett
3) Homer

That would leave us with few holes that needed to be filled other than the bullpen and the best young core of offensive talent in baseball. We'd need to find a good fourth starter and rebuild the bullpen, but our lineup would be set for years.

Not to mention, a future outfield of Matt Kemp, Josh Hamilton, and Jay Bruce would be awesome. Three guys who can do it all.

Anyway, my $.02.

BEETTLEBUG
07-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Too much in Braves deal and NO on Arroyo.

DTCromer
07-25-2007, 11:05 AM
My wish list is that the trade deadline is over so that when nothing big happens, all of the ridiculous trade ideas will stop.

BLEEDS
07-25-2007, 11:28 AM
Agree on 1-10 & 13. IF I owned the Reds, I go out and sign C. Zambrano, and trade for Right-handed closer - like Cordero or go after one in FA. Yes, I realize that is probably about $30M per year - but IFF you want to win, in 2008, in the NL Central, that is what you do.

We could keep the rest of our pitchers from within - personally I'd prefer to keep Weathers next year as the set-up (read: 8th inning) guy. $2.5M is a bargain for him IMO. The entire rest of our Bullpen can be 1/2/3 year guys, making less than $500K - any sub-set of (in preferred order): Bray (L), Burton (R), Coutlangus (L), Gosling (L), Coffey (R)(although scheduled to make $925K), Majewski (R), Santos (R), McBeth (R).

Harang, Arroyo, Bailey round out your FOR SURES, then you could do with Dumatrait or whomever else is CHEAP.


IFF we got that in the pitching department, I wouldn't mind passing on Dunn - ONLY IFF we can sign a Decent FA LF-er, preferably RH. My personal campaign is backing ERIC BYRNES, a possible 30-30 guy who is 31. Can be had for $10M per in FA.

11 - I don't think we need a TRUE lead-off hitter in GABP. The ONLY time they are GUARANTEED to Lead-Off is the top of the 1st. Freel/Hamilton can lead-off just fine. We need boppers, not bunters.

12 - stud C prospect? I think we just drafted him in the first round this year.

15 - SS prospect? We have them in the Farm system. I think we will groom one by the time Gonzalez leaves. No need to pick one up in FA, although I'm sure we could consider one in any trades.

SO, my "shopping list" looks like this:
Zambrano - $20M per season - I'd go 7 years, $140M
Byrnes - $10M per - I'd go 5 years, $50M

Closer - I'd either trade Dunn for Chad Cordero with the Nats, that'd be the cheapest option. He's making only $4.5M, although is arbitration eligible. Signing him - or any of the FA's out there - Francisco Cordero, Scott Linebrink - long-term is going to cost you 7/8/9M per.

Sounds like a lot, but when you consider the savings from getting rid of Milton ($10M), Hatteberg/Conine (3.5M), Lohse (4.2M), Stanton (2M), Saarloos (1.2M), Castro ($1M) - all who can be replaced by guys making $500K or less - you don't actually increase your payroll that much, maybe up to $80M. Winning will put more butts in seats, EASILY making up the $10M or more in payroll increase.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

JLB5
07-25-2007, 12:09 PM
Agree on 1-10 & 13. IF I owned the Reds, I go out and sign C. Zambrano, and trade for Right-handed closer - like Cordero or go after one in FA. Yes, I realize that is probably about $30M per year - but IFF you want to win, in 2008, in the NL Central, that is what you do.

I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hades that Zambrano comes here. Somebody (probably the Mets) is going to throw insane bank at this guy. Whatever the Reds would offer, they'll offer more. If Cuban buys the Cubs as has been rumored, good chance he stays put in Wrigleyville. The bad thing about having money to spend on pitching this offseason is that the pickings are slim.

As for signing a closer, Nathan is about the only potential free agent that really interests me. (I think he has a club option though).


Harang, Arroyo, Bailey round out your FOR SURES, then you could do with Dumatrait or whomever else is CHEAP.

Livingston could be another option, he has looked good so far. Belisle still could develop into a serviceable 5th starter. He's young and has good stuff. Just needs to work on his command in the zone.


IFF we got that in the pitching department, I wouldn't mind passing on Dunn - ONLY IFF we can sign a Decent FA LF-er, preferably RH. My personal campaign is backing ERIC BYRNES, a possible 30-30 guy who is 31. Can be had for $10M per in FA.

Byrnes is having a career year. It always makes me nervous to put that kind of money into a player who has not demonstrated the ability to sustain those levels. Besides, Aaron Rowand is a similar guy who might come cheaper. All depends on what happens with Dunn and what the return is.


11 - I don't think we need a TRUE lead-off hitter in GABP. The ONLY time they are GUARANTEED to Lead-Off is the top of the 1st. Freel/Hamilton can lead-off just fine. We need boppers, not bunters.

May only lead off the first, but is going to hit in front of your boppers 4/5 times per game. I want somebody up there with higher than a .320 OBP. I agree that Hamilton could maybe fill that roll. Freel, no. I like Franklin Gutierrez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7644). How about Dunn and Weathers for Gutierrez and Sowers? I'd do it in a heartbeat but not sure the Tribe would bite on that one.


12 - stud C prospect? I think we just drafted him in the first round this year.

He's 4 or more years away in all likelihood. I don't mind Ross, but I don't think I want to see him around that long, at least not as the everyday starter. He'd make a fine backup.


15 - SS prospect? We have them in the Farm system. I think we will groom one by the time Gonzalez leaves. No need to pick one up in FA, although I'm sure we could consider one in any trades.

Again, those guys are all at low levels. SS is like SP, you can't have enough. You can almost always shift to another position if needed. I certainly wouldn't pass on the next ARod, Jeter, Reyes if offered.


SO, my "shopping list" looks like this:
Zambrano - $20M per season - I'd go 7 years, $140M
Byrnes - $10M per - I'd go 5 years, $50M

Closer - I'd either trade Dunn for Chad Cordero with the Nats, that'd be the cheapest option. He's making only $4.5M, although is arbitration eligible. Signing him - or any of the FA's out there - Francisco Cordero, Scott Linebrink - long-term is going to cost you 7/8/9M per.

Sounds like a lot, but when you consider the savings from getting rid of Milton ($10M), Hatteberg/Conine (3.5M), Lohse (4.2M), Stanton (2M), Saarloos (1.2M), Castro ($1M) - all who can be replaced by guys making $500K or less - you don't actually increase your payroll that much, maybe up to $80M. Winning will put more butts in seats, EASILY making up the $10M or more in payroll increase.

Tough to make those numbers all work. I believe Harang is scheduled for a raise next year and Bronson the year after. If Phillips keeps up, they'll be looking to lock him up and avoid arb. Basically, you could make that work for 1 year, but difficult to ink both Byrnes and Zambrano to LTC.



PEACE

-BLEEDS

Peace back at ya.

mroby85
07-25-2007, 12:59 PM
i just want to see dunn, hatteberg, conine, etc. all traded for prospects, and then spend some money in the offseason.

BLEEDS
07-25-2007, 01:23 PM
I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hades that Zambrano comes here. Somebody (probably the Mets) is going to throw insane bank at this guy. Whatever the Reds would offer, they'll offer more. If Cuban buys the Cubs as has been rumored, good chance he stays put in Wrigleyville. The bad thing about having money to spend on pitching this offseason is that the pickings are slim.

As for signing a closer, Nathan is about the only potential free agent that really interests me. (I think he has a club option though).

Hey, you said WISH LIST, and I said IFF I owned the Reds. I agree, after Zambrano, the pickings are slim - yet another reason I'd NOT part with Arroyo for a Catcher/1B-man. After Z, you're looking at Jason Jennings, Freddy Garcia. Probably have to pay $10M for those guys.

Closers, Nathan won't be a FA, but maybe a trade. I would trade Dunn for a Nathan or Chad Cordero - but only IFF we sign a SP and a FA RF.



Byrnes is having a career year. It always makes me nervous to put that kind of money into a player who has not demonstrated the ability to sustain those levels. Besides, Aaron Rowand is a similar guy who might come cheaper. All depends on what happens with Dunn and what the return is.

Rowand is my #2 choice. I think Byrnes is just hitting his stride. He hit 20 homers in Oakland he can hit 30+ in GABP. He can steal you 30 bases as well, and he's more of a pure Non-CF-er. Rowand's a pure CF guy. They're both having career years - imagine that in a FA season!:eek:




SS is like SP, you can't have enough. You can almost always shift to another position if needed. I ertainly wouldn't pass on the next ARod, Jeter, Reyes if offered.


If we knew they were the next ARod/Jeter/Reyes, I don't think the other team would be offering them. SS is not a Priority for me personally.




Tough to make those numbers all work. I believe Harang is scheduled for a raise next year and Bronson the year after. If Phillips keeps up, they'll be looking to lock him up and avoid arb. Basically, you could make that work for 1 year, but difficult to ink both Byrnes and Zambrano to LTC.


The numbers work, I've done it several times.

Harang scheduled for 6.75M in 2008, Arroyo 3.95.
2009 is when the bigger salaries kick in: 11M and 9.5 respectively.
ALSO the same year that Jr's Option is up - hmm, coincidence? I think not, it was planned that way on purpose, enter Jay Bruce into the Bigs, and his <$500K salary... you don't even cough at the $8M in total raises for Harang an Arroyo.

Phillips can be signed for reasonable money, he won't break the bank, we've got many years of arbitration and I think he's got some loyalty to the Reds for giving him the opportunity.

2011 - maybe you start worrying, but if we've got a Division or Pennant, you're not as concerned...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Muggerd
07-25-2007, 03:57 PM
Id be for dumping the most money possible with out giving up Phillips, Harang, Arroyo. then signing some good FA pitchers for once.

Lets be honest we will trade guys, get nothing then sign pitchers no one else wanted. We have been doing it for years with players and managers. Nothing will ever change.

Muggerd
07-25-2007, 03:59 PM
Id take Byrnes over Dunn unless Byrnes is going to get some retarded contract. I can see some dumb team giving byrnes 12 million.


Now only if Reds management would realize that if they signed people and won they would make the money back. Oh noes we cant spend the money because we cant afford it. Mean while we will spend just enough so we can make sure to turn a profit. Business 1st winning 2nd

roby
07-25-2007, 04:55 PM
Agree on 1-10 & 13. IF I owned the Reds, I go out and sign C. Zambrano, and trade for Right-handed closer - like Cordero or go after one in FA. Yes, I realize that is probably about $30M per year - but IFF you want to win, in 2008, in the NL Central, that is what you do.

We could keep the rest of our pitchers from within - personally I'd prefer to keep Weathers next year as the set-up (read: 8th inning) guy. $2.5M is a bargain for him IMO. The entire rest of our Bullpen can be 1/2/3 year guys, making less than $500K - any sub-set of (in preferred order): Bray (L), Burton (R), Coutlangus (L), Gosling (L), Coffey (R)(although scheduled to make $925K), Majewski (R), Santos (R), McBeth (R).

Harang, Arroyo, Bailey round out your FOR SURES, then you could do with Dumatrait or whomever else is CHEAP.


IFF we got that in the pitching department, I wouldn't mind passing on Dunn - ONLY IFF we can sign a Decent FA LF-er, preferably RH. My personal campaign is backing ERIC BYRNES, a possible 30-30 guy who is 31. Can be had for $10M per in FA.

11 - I don't think we need a TRUE lead-off hitter in GABP. The ONLY time they are GUARANTEED to Lead-Off is the top of the 1st. Freel/Hamilton can lead-off just fine. We need boppers, not bunters.

12 - stud C prospect? I think we just drafted him in the first round this year.

15 - SS prospect? We have them in the Farm system. I think we will groom one by the time Gonzalez leaves. No need to pick one up in FA, although I'm sure we could consider one in any trades.

SO, my "shopping list" looks like this:
Zambrano - $20M per season - I'd go 7 years, $140M
Byrnes - $10M per - I'd go 5 years, $50M

Closer - I'd either trade Dunn for Chad Cordero with the Nats, that'd be the cheapest option. He's making only $4.5M, although is arbitration eligible. Signing him - or any of the FA's out there - Francisco Cordero, Scott Linebrink - long-term is going to cost you 7/8/9M per.

Sounds like a lot, but when you consider the savings from getting rid of Milton ($10M), Hatteberg/Conine (3.5M), Lohse (4.2M), Stanton (2M), Saarloos (1.2M), Castro ($1M) - all who can be replaced by guys making $500K or less - you don't actually increase your payroll that much, maybe up to $80M. Winning will put more butts in seats, EASILY making up the $10M or more in payroll increase.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


Bleeds: You are A GENIUS! this is exactly what needs to be done if the Reds are going to be a winner. I hope someone is listening.

ED44
07-25-2007, 05:34 PM
Trade Dunn to the Padres for Linebrink & Headley (Gives you a closer and your new 3B)

Trade EdE, Conine and Wood? to the Twins for Garza (more like Kevin Slowey and A ball pitcher)

Ship Hatteburg to the Yankees and get Thorne

Send Lohse, Freel and ??? to the Phillies for Michael Bourn (prolly not realistic, but would love to see it)

Sucker anyone to take Stanton, replace with Bray (Bray and Weathers now set up Linebrink and the bullpen is immediately stronger)

Votto replaces Conine and Hatteburg at 1st (with Keppinger playing some when Votto needs a day off)

In the offseason try and get another starter (Paul Byrd? Joe Kennedy? Prolly around the Reds price range).

Muggerd
07-25-2007, 05:39 PM
In the offseason try and get another starter (Paul Byrd? Joe Kennedy? Prolly around the Reds price range).

Maybe im just really fed up with the reds but id rather run some of our young guys out there than over pay for medicore guys. If were going to overpay for guys please over pay for good ones.

JLB5
07-25-2007, 05:45 PM
Trade Dunn to the Padres for Linebrink & Headley (Gives you a closer and your new 3B)


Too bad Linebrink will be a free agent after this year or I might consider that.



Trade EdE, Conine and Wood? to the Twins for Garza (more like Kevin Slowey and A ball pitcher)

Ship Hatteburg to the Yankees and get Thorne

Those would be good moves.


Send Lohse, Freel and ??? to the Phillies for Michael Bourn (prolly not realistic, but would love to see it)

I would think Bourn is not available with Rowand in his walk year. Not a bad idea though.


Sucker anyone to take Stanton, replace with Bray (Bray and Weathers now set up Linebrink and the bullpen is immediately stronger)

Even without Linebrink, I do that. Coutlangus and Gosling have both shown ability out of the pen.


Votto replaces Conine and Hatteburg at 1st (with Keppinger playing some when Votto needs a day off)

In the offseason try and get another starter (Paul Byrd? Joe Kennedy? Prolly around the Reds price range

Bring on Votto, I wouldn't even mind if Hatte stayed on as a pinch hitter. Yeah, unfortunately Joe Kennedy is probably about the best the Reds can get in this market.

ED44
07-25-2007, 07:03 PM
Scratch my Dunn to the Pads thought...per Trent, Linebrink to the Brewers for 3 arms.

AmarilloRed
07-26-2007, 12:34 AM
Ross got hurt tonight. This might put a lot of pressure on the Reds to make that trade for Saltemacchia. My wish list is Lohse for Saltemacchia. It's just a nice dream though.

mroby85
07-26-2007, 01:14 AM
if they trade arroyo for a catching prospect i'm going to be irate!

AmarilloRed
07-26-2007, 01:19 AM
I would hope they would do it for Lohse and a combination of other players and prospects; I would like to keep Arroyo too.

BLEEDS
07-26-2007, 01:43 PM
Ross got hurt tonight. This might put a lot of pressure on the Reds to make that trade for Saltemacchia. My wish list is Lohse for Saltemacchia. It's just a nice dream though.


Dream for us; Nightmare for the Braves. They don't need pitching that bad (double entendre)...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

AmarilloRed
07-26-2007, 01:45 PM
They do need a starting pitcher-The pitching coach might think he can turn Lohse around(I hope).