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View Full Version : Biggio to Announce Retirement



Joseph
07-24-2007, 02:06 PM
Just heard this on the radio as I was at lunch. Presser in about an hour.

Let me just say that while I never rooted for the opposition, watching Biggio and Bagwell all those years in Houston was nice as a baseball fan.

M2
07-24-2007, 02:21 PM
Effective immediately or after the season?

For his sake, I hope it's immediately. He's not doing his team or his legacy any favors hanging around playing as poorly as he is at this moment.

Cyclone792
07-24-2007, 02:24 PM
One of the five greatest second basemen in the history of the game, IMO.

I hated watching the Astros beat the Reds, but I loved watching Craig Biggio play. Biggio's 1997 season itself is one of the greatest and most underrated and underappreciated seasons of this generation.

Chip R
07-24-2007, 02:29 PM
Effective immediately or after the season?

For his sake, I hope it's immediately. He's not doing his team or his legacy any favors hanging around playing as poorly as he is at this moment.


I just read the article and it's after the season.

bucksfan2
07-24-2007, 02:34 PM
One of the five greatest second basemen in the history of the game, IMO.

I hated watching the Astros beat the Reds, but I loved watching Craig Biggio play. Biggio's 1997 season itself is one of the greatest and most underrated and underappreciated seasons of this generation.

He was a good ball player but in his prime he wasn't even in the top 2. I would take both Alamor and Kent over Biggio any day.

Johnny Footstool
07-24-2007, 02:45 PM
Biggio is a sure-fire HOF'er at 2B.

He's still hitting lefties very well this season (318/.351/.489) and he's only 3 HBPs away from the all-time record. I say the Reds should help him break that record the next time they face the Astros. C'mon, Craig, lean into a couple more for the record books.

Sea Ray
07-24-2007, 03:09 PM
Biggio is a sure-fire HOF'er at 2B.

He's still hitting lefties very well this season (318/.351/.489) and he's only 3 HBPs away from the all-time record. I say the Reds should help him break that record the next time they face the Astros. C'mon, Craig, lean into a couple more for the record books.

My bet is he never once was denied 1st base because he didn't try to get out of the way. :rolleyes: That's a rule I've never seen enforced

Rojo
07-24-2007, 03:29 PM
He was a good ball player but in his prime he wasn't even in the top 2. I would take both Alamor and Kent over Biggio any day.


Unless your going for team wins.

bucksfan2
07-24-2007, 03:48 PM
Unless your going for team wins.

huh?

M2
07-24-2007, 04:33 PM
Biggio was one of three dominant 2Bs during the bulk of the 1990s. The other two, Robbie Alomar and Chuck Knoblauch, saw their careers ram into walls. Jeff Kent was a late bloomer, who's been far better in his 30s (over the past decade) than he was in his 20s during the bulk of the 1990s.

For the 10 seasons from 1992-2001, Biggio and Alomar were nothing short of stellar. Along with Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Larkin, Larry Walker and Jeff Bagwell, they were on the short list of best all-around players in baseball during those years.

RedLegSuperStar
07-24-2007, 04:33 PM
For someone who has been a catcher, a center fielder, and a second baseman.. and who played them above average.. amazing!

Truly one of the class acts

chicoruiz
07-24-2007, 05:36 PM
If you look at his "most similar" lists on BaseballReference.com you get some pretty impressive comps, including Morgan, but also Alomar, Lou Whitaker, and even Pete. Actually Rose, another multi-position guy, might be a better all-around comp than the pure second basemen. It would be interesting to compare their win shares season-by-season.

RedsBaron
07-24-2007, 06:54 PM
He was a good ball player but in his prime he wasn't even in the top 2. I would take both Alamor and Kent over Biggio any day.

I wouldn't. Biggio in his prime was better than Alomar or Kent, and his career has better, too. Other than having a greater peak value than Alomar and Kent, and a greater career value than Alomar and Kent, Biggio was inferior to them. ;)

KronoRed
07-24-2007, 09:26 PM
My bet is he never once was denied 1st base because he didn't try to get out of the way. :rolleyes: That's a rule I've never seen enforced

Never a fan of the armor either.

Still, great player

RedsBaron
07-24-2007, 09:29 PM
If you look at his "most similar" lists on BaseballReference.com you get some pretty impressive comps, including Morgan, but also Alomar, Lou Whitaker, and even Pete. Actually Rose, another multi-position guy, might be a better all-around comp than the pure second basemen. It would be interesting to compare their win shares season-by-season.

I can quickly give you their Win Shares from 1990 through 2001, but I don't have a book with the post-2001 numbers, which doesn't greatly matter for Biggio and Alomar, since 1990-2001 covers their prime:
Biggio: 18, 20, 32, 26, 26, 29, 32, 38, 35, 31, 11, 25-Career 342
Alomar: 19, 25, 24, 30, 13, 16, 31, 21, 19, 35, 20, 37-Career 345
Kent: 0, 0, 10, 13, 18, 11, 11, 22, 25, 23, 37, 27- Career 197
I assume that by now Biggio's career Win Shares total exceeds Alomar's, since I do not believe Almoar significantly added to his total after 2001, since his career fell off a cliff after that. Before that, they were very close. Kent has probably significantly increased his career total.
I would defintiely vote to induct Biggio and Alomar into the Hall of Fame, and probably Kent as well. In his "New Historical Baseball Abstract" published in 2001, Bill James ranked Biggio no. 5, Alomar no. 10 and Kent no. 48 among all second basemen. I would assume that Kent would be in James's top twenty if he made the list now.
If you want to add Rose and Morgan to the list, here's Pete's Win Shares from 1963 through 1986:
19, 12, 27, 25, 24, 32, 37, 29, 28, 32, 34, 27, 31, 30, 23, 27, 27, 17, 17, 17, 7, 8, 14, 3-Career 547
Joe's Win Shares from 1963 through 1984:
1, 0, 30, 19, 26, 2, 24, 24, 29, 39, 40, 37, 44, 37, 30, 17, 18, 21, 14, 29, 19, 12-Career 512
During the 1970s, Joe Morgan lead all major league players with 315 Win Shares for the decade. Pete Rose was second with 288. Johnny Bench was third with 263. The Reds had some decent players then.

Ravenlord
07-25-2007, 06:51 AM
My bet is he never once was denied 1st base because he didn't try to get out of the way. :rolleyes: That's a rule I've never seen enforced

he did once a few years ago, and got ejected arguing with the the ump after the AB, which i believe ended in strikeout.

Unassisted
07-25-2007, 08:23 AM
Effective immediately or after the season?

For his sake, I hope it's immediately. He's not doing his team or his legacy any favors hanging around playing as poorly as he is at this moment.

I see your point, but I bet the Astros are glad his restirement wasn't effective immediately. Biggio hit a grand slam last night, which produced the GWRBI. He'll probably go 0-fer the rest of the week now, but that was poignant, as was Milo Hamilton's call of it.

RedsBaron
07-25-2007, 08:48 AM
My bet is he never once was denied 1st base because he didn't try to get out of the way. :rolleyes: That's a rule I've never seen enforced

It was enforced once in 1968. Don Drysdale was in the midst of his then record 56+ scoreless inning streak when he hit a Giant batter with the bases loaded. The home plate umpire refused to allow the Giant to take first base, ruling that he had not tried to get out of the way of the pitch. At the time, many thought the umpire made that ruling just to preserve Drysdale's streak.

RFS62
07-25-2007, 09:15 AM
It was enforced once in 1968. Don Drysdale was in the midst of his then record 56+ scoreless inning streak when he hit a Giant batter with the bases loaded. The home plate umpire refused to allow the Giant to take first base, ruling that he had not tried to get out of the way of the pitch. At the time, many thought the umpire made that ruling just to preserve Drysdale's streak.


Dick Dietz, I believe.

Man, did that start an argument. But he absolutely did lean into the pitch, and made no effort to get out of the way.

RedsBaron
07-25-2007, 11:15 AM
Dick Dietz, I believe.

Man, did that start an argument. But he absolutely did lean into the pitch, and made no effort to get out of the way.

I believe that you are correct.
When I was ten years old, I was a lousy hitter while playing Little League. I used to hope to get hit by the pitch, and I never made any effort to get out of the way.

Chip R
07-25-2007, 11:18 AM
For his sake, I hope it's immediately. He's not doing his team or his legacy any favors hanging around playing as poorly as he is at this moment.


If he retired now it would look like he was just hanging around for #3,000 - which he was but doing it effective after the season makes it look much better. Plus he can get a lot of lovely parting gifts.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-26-2007, 12:11 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/lopezblog/archives/2007/07/biggio_to_don_c.html

I thought this was kind of cool. Apparently Roy Oswalt has asked Biggio to be his catcher in Stros' final home series this year against the Braves. Biggio agreed, but only if the Braves aren't in a tight race for the NL East.

IslandRed
07-26-2007, 12:37 PM
Man, did that start an argument. But he absolutely did lean into the pitch, and made no effort to get out of the way.

It reminds of an anecdote I read as a kid about Rabbit Maranville. When he was on the 1914 Miracle Braves, in a critical bases-loaded situation he leaned out over the plate and let a pitch smack him right in the head. It was the deadball era, but still. While he was laying there dazed, the ump told him "If you can get up right now and walk to first base, I'll let you get away with it." He did.

Johnny Footstool
07-26-2007, 12:45 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/lopezblog/archives/2007/07/biggio_to_don_c.html

I thought this was kind of cool. Apparently Roy Oswalt has asked Biggio to be his catcher in Stros' final home series this year against the Braves. Biggio agreed, but only if the Braves aren't in a tight race for the NL East.

His answer is extremely classy.